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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Possible to get L1a1 or FAL?

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    #32
    Brontosaurus
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Brontosaurus


    What would be considered a "good reason" for a SA CF that your typical super would accept? What competitions available in the ROI for such a rifle? As bad as the legislation and licensing process is, it doesn't help that the shooting community doesn't do more to have more competitions using a wider variety of firearms and to try to actually grow such competitions and get new blood into the sport in general...


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    #33
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Brontosaurus wrote: »
    What would be considered a "good reason" for a SA CF that your typical super would accept? What competitions available in the ROI for such a rifle? As bad as the legislation and licensing process is, it doesn't help that the shooting community doesn't do more to have more competitions using a wider variety of firearms and to try to actually grow such competitions and get new blood into the sport in general...

    The midlands range hold a “bullseye 360” competition for SA CF. I’m pretty sure you can only get a SA CF if it’s to do with target shooting, whether that’s solely targets or as a dual purpose, ie targts and foxing etc. If you’re interested, JB88 is the man to talk to.


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    #34
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Put it down for Bullseye 360,F Class has a section for CF SA rifles as well, although I dunno how many shoot it here.

    An Riocht in Kerry run an Irish version of service rifle, and there is no problem putting it down for foxing and deer hunting. Although you won't have much fox left if it gets hit by a .308

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #35
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Put it down for Bullseye 360,F Class has a section for CF SA rifles as well, although I dunno how many shoot it here.

    An Riocht in Kerry run an Irish version of service rifle, and there is no problem putting it down for foxing and deer hunting. Although you won't have much fox left if it gets hit by a .308

    You can’t kill a fox deader than dead and if it’s a person’s only rifle which is used for target shooting and two different forms of hunting you could even argue that one gun now does the job of potentially two guns. A win for the applicant and the CS, one can be happy with the L1A1 they wanted and the other can turn around and say they only had to authorize one rifle where there wouldn’t have been many grounds to not grant two.


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    #36
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    meathstevie wrote: »
    You can’t kill a fox deader than dead and if it’s a person’s only rifle which is used for target shooting and two different forms of hunting you could even argue that one gun now does the job of potentially two guns. A win for the applicant and the CS, one can be happy with the L1A1 they wanted and the other can turn around and say they only had to authorize one rifle where there wouldn’t have been many grounds to not grant two.

    Would there be much shooting in foxing? What I mean is are there many foxes around on farms to be shot? Is foxing just done on farms or what? Sorry I’m not familiar with hunting or foxing in general.


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    #37
    Bagpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Bagpipe


    Munsterlad102 wrote: »
    Would there be much shooting in foxing? What I mean is are there many foxes around on farms to be shot? Is foxing just done on farms or what? Sorry I’m not familiar with hunting or foxing in general.




    It depends where you live really as i think the fox populations would differ? Most of mine are during the lambing season and the occasional one when we're making silage as they seem to be fond of sleeping in the middle of a meadow :D


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    #38
    Bagpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Put it down for Bullseye 360,F Class has a section for CF SA rifles as well, although I dunno how many shoot it here.

    An Riocht in Kerry run an Irish version of service rifle, and there is no problem putting it down for foxing and deer hunting. Although you won't have much fox left if it gets hit by a .308




    Is it a thing where you could visit a range to get a feel for these types of firearms before committing to the whole process?


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    #39
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Is it a thing where you could visit a range to get a feel for these types of firearms before committing to the whole process?

    Join the FCA :D


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    #40
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Is it a thing where you could visit a range to get a feel for these types of firearms before committing to the whole process?

    Not really since they’re individually licenced to a person on a restricted firearm licence. Ranges who cater for public access including the use of firearms specialise in shotguns for clay shooting and small bore rim fire bolt action rifles for target shooting.

    The chances of a Chief Superintendent ever signing off on a half a dozen AR-10’s or L1A1’s for use on a range by a corporate Christmas party or stag party is pretty non existent.

    The closest you’ll come to handling one without a licence will be a deactivated one in a hands on museum.


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    #41
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Munsterlad102 wrote: »
    Would there be much shooting in foxing? What I mean is are there many foxes around on farms to be shot? Is foxing just done on farms or what? Sorry I’m not familiar with hunting or foxing in general.

    There are some lads on FB working overtime every nite shooting foxes in different parts of the country, bringing in anything from 6 to 2.So it depends on where you are and how dedicated and how big a population there is in an area.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #42
    Bagpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    There are some lads on FB working overtime every nite shooting foxes in different parts of the country, bringing in anything from 6 to 2.So it depends on where you are and how dedicated and how big a population there is in an area.


    What are the going rates, if you wanted to make a small bit of money on the side?;)

    meathstevie wrote: »
    Not really since they’re individually licenced to a person on a restricted firearm licence. Ranges who cater for public access including the use of firearms specialise in shotguns for clay shooting and small bore rim fire bolt action rifles for target shooting.

    The chances of a Chief Superintendent ever signing off on a half a dozen AR-10’s or L1A1’s for use on a range by a corporate Christmas party or stag party is pretty non existent.

    The closest you’ll come to handling one without a licence will be a deactivated one in a hands on museum.


    Oh thats fair enough. So theres really no way to try before you buy?


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    #43
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    What are the going rates, if you wanted to make a small bit of money on the side?;)

    Less than Zero TBH.:(:(
    No one wants wild fox fur anymore, as the markets are flooded with farmed Russian and Canadian furs, and its easier to match a pattern from farmed fur than wild furs. There is a lad in Germany buying wild pelts off hunters over there and I looked into exporting our furs. But it's a bureaucratic nightmare in paperwork and facilities to do so.:(

    A pity , because there are some lads here who put themselves thru college in the 80s lamping foxes for the pelt and bounty on the brushes. So much so that there was a point foxes were becoming a really scarse animal in the countryside.

    Yet IMO you should learn to skin and cure any pelts you get off a fox or mink
    You could make a very nice throw or blanket from the wild and unfarmed pelts of a years harvest for half the price of what they are being sold for in a furrier, and keep a local endangered industry of furrier, one left in Dublin[Barnardos] in business. Thus keeping jobs going, a tradition alive, and make the antis cry. https://www.master-furrier.com/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #44
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Oh thats fair enough. So theres really no way to try before you buy?

    Realistically no, to fire a restricted firearm you don’t have licensed you have to be in the presence/supervivio of an RFD. I’m pretty sure that’s the rule, but if I’m wrong please correct me. You could always go abroad to Germany or the States if you really want to fire a semi auto one. You could always go up North and find one of those straightpull ones just as a reference, but those would be your two options, unless of course you know an RFD and someone who owns a FN FAL.


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    #45
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    In that case call a couple of ranges.Or call a few RFDs and see if you could meet on a range for you to try one out pending you parting with your cash?
    Two of them are also restricted RFD's, so they might have one in stock that you could testfire on the range pending a sale. Worth a couple of phone calls.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #46
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    Brontosaurus wrote: »
    What would be considered a "good reason" for a SA CF that your typical super would accept? What competitions available in the ROI for such a rifle? As bad as the legislation and licensing process is, it doesn't help that the shooting community doesn't do more to have more competitions using a wider variety of firearms and to try to actually grow such competitions and get new blood into the sport in general...

    I would suggest you start shooting the 4 or 5 Service Rifle competitions in Kerry (An Riocht) every year, there were 3 when restrictions were relaxed between lock downs. You will get all the advice you need there. A great day out and you learn a lot.

    But be reminded that Service Rifle competitions are generally great fun and for bolt action shooting its challenging.

    Its not enough to just say you want a semi auto rifle. You need to participate regularly in competition if you really want these, otherwise its a pipedream and you are wasting your time.




    Make sure you are wanting one for the right reasons, and I think in your case you have the right reasons, Competitions.

    PM me and we can have a chat


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    #47
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    meathstevie wrote: »
    Not really since they’re individually licenced to a person on a restricted firearm licence. Ranges who cater for public access including the use of firearms specialise in shotguns for clay shooting and small bore rim fire bolt action rifles for target shooting.

    The chances of a Chief Superintendent ever signing off on a half a dozen AR-10’s or L1A1’s for use on a range by a corporate Christmas party or stag party is pretty non existent.

    The closest you’ll come to handling one without a licence will be a deactivated one in a hands on museum.

    In this case its a Service rifle, and I would recommend the prospective new member, get a bolt action and compete in these competitions in Kerry first, to build up knowledge and information and then in the future opt for something more applicable to whats required for service rifle competitions.

    A Semi auto service rifle with any accuracy is a 16 to 17lb rifle which you have to use standing,sitting and prone with a sling, using a 4x powered scope, the skills have to be learned and it takes practice and time.

    Oh if its a .308 that weight goes up to 25 to 26lbs. Ever held a rifle that weight before its interesting.


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    #48
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    I don't think you can beat the No.4 Lee Enfield for value, ease of getting spares and fast fun. You can shoot a cock on close Enfield nearly as fast (accurately) as anything else. Plus you don't have to go through the rigmarole of getting a restricted licence.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH5wWkdi0rY


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    #49
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    tudderone wrote: »
    I don't think you can beat the No.4 Lee Enfield for value, ease of getting spares and fast fun. You can shoot a cock on close Enfield nearly as fast (accurately) as anything else. Plus you don't have to go through the rigmarole of getting a restricted licence.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH5wWkdi0rY

    Look dont believe everything you see on youtube, BOTR is great, some really insightful information there from a very experienced guy at shooting bolt action service rifle. But there are different types, remember he grew up mainly in a Post BAN.
    Check out the CMP and USMC Service Rifle Introduction on youtube. Thats what its for.
    The rigmarole, its like anything else, state your case and usage and show competition entry and participation. But start off. Ive said this many times before, get out from behind the keyboard and get to the range, ask the questions to people who participate. Dont rely on your interpretation of a similar youtube video on the subject.


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    #50
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    This is what you need to be watching if your interested in Semi Automatic Service Rifle

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-mCGO9ES4


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    #51
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    jb88 wrote: »
    Look dont believe everything you see on youtube, BOTR is great, some really insightful information there from a very experienced guy at shooting bolt action service rifle. But there are different types, remember he grew up mainly in a Post BAN.
    Check out the CMP and USMC Service Rifle Introduction on youtube. Thats what its for.
    The rigmarole, its like anything else, state your case and usage and show competition entry and participation. But start off. Ive said this many times before, get out from behind the keyboard and get to the range, ask the questions to people who participate. Dont rely on your interpretation of a similar youtube video on the subject.


    I don't know what you are blathering on about, i suggested it might just as much fun, easier and cost a lot less to start off shooting service rifle with a Lee Enfield No.4. I've been through the restricted thing three times, and never again, it was a nightmare. I wouldn't bother dealing with the guards again unless i had a solicitor with me.


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    #52
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    tudderone wrote: »
    I don't know what you are blathering on about, i suggested it might just as much fun, easier and cost a lot less to start off shooting service rifle with a Lee Enfield No.4. I've been through the restricted thing three times, and never again, it was a nightmare. I wouldn't bother dealing with the guards again unless i had a solicitor with me.

    I've three restricted firearms and never had any issue getting them licenced. Maybe I was lucky, but I found the Gardai quite reasonable.

    I provided written reasons why I needed the firarms etc. and I was never even called to a meeting. I was questioned over the phone about one of the guns but they were questions about why I wanted x number of rounds and why I wanted to use one of the guns for both target shooting and hunting. I also had the CPO out to inspect my security system for each firearm but I didn't mind that as everything was as it should be at my end.


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    #53
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    tudderone wrote: »
    I don't know what you are blathering on about, i suggested it might just as much fun, easier and cost a lot less to start off shooting service rifle with a Lee Enfield No.4. I've been through the restricted thing three times, and never again, it was a nightmare. I wouldn't bother dealing with the guards again unless i had a solicitor with me.

    Do you hear me moaning about licencing difficulties . (No)
    You obviously didnt have a fun time with it or want it bad enough to stick with it.

    Those are your problems, and yours alone to resolve. This isnt the topic

    The above information I provided is for Semi Auto Service rifle, which is whats required and available for those who want to listen, read and learn.

    Who mentioned anything about "easy", or "cost".

    I dont think you have read my other post. thats ok. "How to get a licence for a Restricted Rifle",


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    #54
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Brontosaurus wrote: »
    What would be considered a "good reason" for a SA CF that your typical super would accept?
    In my case i had a meeting with my Chief Super who was inquisitive, asked decent questions, was not predisposed in his thoughts, but more importantly was willing to listen and discuss the situation. When i explained i wanted mine for dual purposes (target shooting and hunting) i then outlined my reasons the most important of which was the cost of having two rifles, two licenses, etc. and running each firearm for separate purposes as opposed to the dual ability of the semi auto.

    Other reasons i gave included the variety of shooting i could do, my age, my shooting history, and my many years of membership to both ranges and shooting clubs.

    Got it without any problems.
    What competitions available in the ROI for such a rifle?
    It depends on what you go for in terms of rifle. I won't pretend to know them because i don't, as i'm not permitted to shoot in 99% of them, given my rifle and its caliber. Some organisations allow only certain types of firearms which means my rifle cannot be used in the majority of shooting so the Bullseye lads took it upon themselves to introduce a discipline that catered for any rifle.

    BTW contrary to popular belief competition attendance is not a prerequisite for owning a firearm. AGS can ask for range attendance if you cite target shooting as the reason of one of the reasons for a semi auto, but they cannot make getting the license dependent on how many comps you entered/attended.

    As bad as the legislation and licensing process is, it doesn't help that the shooting community doesn't do more to have more competitions using a wider variety of firearms and to try to actually grow such competitions and get new blood into the sport in general...
    I tend to agree. I do understand how difficult it can be to keep everyone happy and there will always be some that are left out, but even informal shoots could easily be held on a monthly basis.

    As i mentioned above some organisation run competition that cater only to a specific type of firearm which precludes most others. I understand the need for rules in some situations, but banning a caliber from a competition is annoying as it reduces someone's ability to enter them.

    For example my rifle is 223 which means i was told i could not enter certain competitions, which i still don't understand. So when making a choice on which caliber you want to go for make sure to check out what events, competitions, etc. you will actually be able to shoot in, otherwise you've bought yourself a, albeit fun, plinker.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #55
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    jb88 wrote: »
    I
    A Semi auto service rifle with any accuracy is a 16 to 17lb rifle which you have to use standing,sitting and prone with a sling, using a 4x powered scope, the skills have to be learned and it takes practice and time.

    Oh if its a .308 that weight goes up to 25 to 26lbs. Ever held a rifle that weight before its interesting.

    Are you shooting a Bren gun or a 1918 BAR :eek::eek:
    Either that or you have a Hell of a lot of bolted on junk on the poor rifle.:D:D

    The Bren comes in at 22lbs at mk 1 and 2
    the BAR 1918 comes in at a few ounces shy of 16 lbs

    Most come in at around with a loaded mag at appx 10.7 lbs and that's the Springfield M14.
    The FAL 50 [Heavy barrel bipod squad automatic rifle design] comes in at 13lbs loaded. Those are the 2 heaviest out there in a civilian configuration.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #56
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    jb88 wrote: »
    Do you hear me moaning about licencing difficulties . (No)
    You obviously didnt have a fun time with it or want it bad enough to stick with it.

    Those are your problems, and yours alone to resolve. This isnt the topic

    The above information I provided is for Semi Auto Service rifle, which is whats required and available for those who want to listen, read and learn.

    Who mentioned anything about "easy", or "cost".

    I dont think you have read my other post. thats ok. "How to get a licence for a Restricted Rifle",


    Yeah, i bought a sig sauer x5 brand new from the factory, 2.5 k's worth with all the extras, shot it for years and then had my licence renewal refused. After being insulted up to the eyeballs by a chief super who had so many skeletons in his particular cupboard he was forced to retire, i was told they would give me a licence for it, after i'd wasted my money in court :rolleyes:.

    There is a difference between easy, a bit of a drudge and an absolute waking nightmare.

    But why shouldn't it be easy ? Its seems some garda districts, supers and chief supers use the application process as some sort of trial. Completely unprofessional, but than again this is Ireland.


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    #57
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    There was nothing easy for me in getting mine.
    I won't go into it here, been there enough times here on boards. But suffice to say it was 3 dist court cases worth back in the twenty oughts and teens.One is one of the first with costs awarded against the Gardai in Limerick.

    I'm in one of the evidence videos at An Riocht for one of the Limerick Dist court applications to prove the Irish version of service rifle was not a dynamic shooting event, attended by the then Limerick Cheif CS Sheehan, Insp Brookes and his understudy at the time Sgt Green.

    So , yeah I've seen, as have plenty of others of the old guard, this sorry story from start to finish of semi rifle licensing in Ireland.

    It can be done...BUT you have to work for it, and you have to be willing to step up to the plate and bat if it looks like you need to let a dist court judge decide on it. That is NOT a cheap option, and going to court is never a sure thing on outcome or costs. It certainly was not easy for me and I was putting a lot on the line finance wise. But sometimes you have to step up in life for what you believe is right....[Thats just me BTW]

    So yeah as I'd say to anyone.Go for it! But be also aware that you have a Damoclean sword over you in the legislation as it stands with the possibility of losing your expensive rifle minus state compensation which may or may not ever happen too....Just so you know the possible negative point.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #58
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    Yeah, i bought a sig sauer x5 brand new from the factory, 2.5 k's worth with all the extras, shot it for years and then had my licence renewal refused. After being insulted up to the eyeballs by a chief super who had so many skeletons in his particular cupboard he was forced to retire, i was told they would give me a licence for it, after i'd wasted my money in court :rolleyes:.

    There is a difference between easy, a bit of a drudge and an absolute waking nightmare.

    But why shouldn't it be easy? Its seems some garda districts, supers and chief supers use the application process as some sort of trial. Completely unprofessional, but then again this is Ireland.


    Hope you did take the license off them after all that and demanded a silencer,NV and anything else on it as well for your pains.:mad: Horrible that we have to deal with such unprofessional Dik heads like that with concrete between the ears to balance the brass on the shoulders.
    That was ONE reason I decided to go full out Nuke in my case, as I ended up with a chief like that too. But then again he managed to pee off two formidable Kerrymen of an Riocht fame,a Kerry Dist court judge, and a bunch of lads in Limerick with his arrogance and manner, obligingly he hung himself in the witness box under oath,so he thankfully retired soon after as well.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #59
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    The law of the land is there for everyone, including the police. You are not absolved from obeying the law, or above the law because you pull on a blue uniform in the morning. The Dail draws up a law, on say licencing a semi-auto centrefire rifle. If it requires you be in a registered gunclub with suitable facilities, have a decent home security set up and have a valid reason, which is either hunting or target shooting, and you meet those criteria, then you should get your cert.

    But we still hear ****e like "Oh the super in my district doesn't like sound moderators, so won't grant a licence for them", "if you want it be prepared to go to court for it".


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    #60
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I put it down to the simple fact as a people we "don't like to make a fuss".
    It's why we tolerate shoddy service and have a now inbred fear of speaking up for ourselves, that we are slowly shaking off as a society.

    As a lot of us are middle-aged shooters, many of us grew up under the boots of an omnipotent state, church and society, where you didn't dare question authority of the pillars of Irish society . Now that we are seeing that our gods are made of clay, we are being less afraid of people like AGS and their attitudes. but for some, it is still a big step to challenge authority so they will rather forget about it or just accept meekly some BS handed to us, even when it is disguised as "Covid regulations".

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #61
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    tudderone wrote: »
    The law of the land is there for everyone, including the police. You are not absolved from obeying the law, or above the law because you pull on a blue uniform in the morning. The Dail draws up a law, on say licencing a semi-auto centrefire rifle. If it requires you be in a registered gunclub with suitable facilities, have a decent home security set up and have a valid reason, which is either hunting or target shooting, and you meet those criteria, then you should get your cert.

    But we still hear ****e like "Oh the super in my district doesn't like sound moderators, so won't grant a licence for them", "if you want it be prepared to go to court for it".

    The art of respectfully disagreeing and challenging incorrect decisions by those in authority is an art that’s only being learnt here I think. For too long people have confused position and title with infallibility.


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