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Possible to get L1a1 or FAL?

124

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  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    RUN AWAY VERY QUICK from that idea.
    It is a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare still, despite ITAR being loosened. It was cheaper for me by 350 euros to get a gunsmith here in Ireland to re barrel my AR10 in 308 with a Lothar Walther German match barrel than import a bog-standard carbine upper from Brownells Would have cost over 1000 euros about five years ago. The re barreling cost 750.

    Be better off literally buying one from one of the importers in Germany,or getting them to build you one to your specs, and let them deal with the paperwork.

    There is no such thing or quantify "cheap AR15".In the US perhaps, where the parts are available and for handy money and you can choose your lower to your budget. As lowers and frames are considered "the gun" under US law. You can buy from apparently rubbish Aero precision[poverty pony] lowers for 150 USD to close onto 900 USD for the lower. Around here in Europe be prepared to shell out 1,500 starting price bare bones for an AR.

    Oh yeah I forgot about Germany. Do you have any idea how much the lever release modification to the rifle would cost? Are any such modifications expensive? On top of the cost of the rifle of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Oh yeah I forgot about Germany. Do you have any idea how much the lever release modification to the rifle would cost? Are any such modifications expensive? On top of the cost of the rifle of course.

    It can't have been a semi-auto to begin with though. Illegal afaik. Its like the straight pulls, just removing the semi-auto bits and doing the conversion is verboten.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    tudderone wrote: »
    It can't have been a semi-auto to begin with though. Illegal afaik. Its like the straight pulls, just removing the semi-auto bits and doing the conversion is verboten.

    Would it be illegal if they used the same parts from an unassembled rifle and then made it into a lever release or would that be illegal? Surely there's some point where its just parts of steel and not a rifle, but maybe I'm wrong. Surely there's some bolt action that uses that an AR barrel but isn't illegal. But I don't know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Would it be illegal if they used the same parts from an unassembled rifle and then made it into a lever release or would that be illegal? Surely there's some point where its just parts of steel and not a rifle, but maybe I'm wrong. Surely there's some bolt action that uses that an AR barrel but isn't illegal. But I don't know.

    Oh yeah, forgot you also need to have a completely new lower AR-style receiver if you are going that way, as the trigger pin and hammer and selector holes are in completely different positions to the std AR receiver to accommodate the interrupter mechanism.
    As for parts from a former rifle build in the UK and now the EU.Nope! The barrel must be fresh with no welded over gas ports, etc. It has to be a virgin,no former select fire parts either.
    So that wipes out, bolt carrier, selector /safety mechanism, barrel, possibly the barrel trunion before you can start a project using former spare parts.
    Found this guy in the UK who might be able to advise you further on building a L1A1 or further on gunstar.co.uk https://www.gunstar.co.uk/rof-royal-ordnance-factories-after-market-l1a1-straight-pull/rifles/1294292

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    Oh yeah I forgot about Germany. Do you have any idea how much the lever release modification to the rifle would cost? Are any such modifications expensive? On top of the cost of the rifle of course.

    Why do you want a lever release? When its perfectly legal to licence a semi auto, and a lot cheaper.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭ juice1304


    Its legal in Germany to make a lever release. The law you're thinking of is in relation to them manufacturing semi-autos on the same machines and tooling as they make full autos on. It was to try and prevent the public from being able to buy the SL8 however HK just decided to spend 4 million euros on another machine instead so it made no difference.
    Although it would be legal to make you would be paying someone to develop the modification again. And the reason they are banned in the uk is because with minimal modification you could turn it into a full auto. Personally, i wouldn't bother with one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    juice1304 wrote: »
    Its legal in Germany to make a lever release. The law you're thinking of is in relation to them manufacturing semi-autos on the same machines and tooling as they make full autos on. It was to try and prevent the public from being able to buy the SL8 however HK just decided to spend 4 million euros on another machine instead so it made no difference.
    Although it would be legal to make you would be paying someone to develop the modification again. And the reason they are banned in the uk is because with minimal modification you could turn it into a full auto. Personally, i wouldn't bother with one.

    So is it legal to have a semi automatic rifle converted to lever action or MARS action in Germany?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭ juice1304


    So is it legal to have a semi automatic rifle converted to lever action or MARS action in Germany?

    It would be legal for them to manufacture one from new but the cost would be ridiculous. They would be starting from scratch. And they dont bother with any of that there because you can walk into a gunshop and walk out with as many semiautos as you can afford.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Lads,

    The discussion has started to wander into prohibited territory. Some have already "modded" themselves which is grand, but I don't think it serves any purpose to have a "how-to" guide, however vague the references are, on anything that could be potentially harmful to the forum or community. To that extent i've removed some posts that even touch on the subject of modifying. There are to be no more posts about the subject.

    All threads naturally go off topic, its part and parcel of the forum, but not to this point. So lets get back on topic, steer clear of anything "hypothetical" and more importantly try focus on Irish issues with Irish solutions.

    This is not a chastising of anyone, just a heads up on the direction the thread is going.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    jb88 wrote: »
    Why do you want a lever release? When its perfectly legal to licence a semi auto, and a lot cheaper.

    I suppose that would possibly make it a bolt action and unrestricted ? I can’t see the point in an environment where you can have a semi-auto with a bit of extra conditions attached.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    From a bit of looking at the UK and the FAL in straight pull.
    About 2500 Stg starter IF you can find one, and they are known for extraction/ejection issues courtesy of the original FAL design itself.
    The AR/AK with rotating bolt heads are apparently better at the stght pull design.
    So 2750 euro appx is putting you into a good 2nd hand Oberland or new AR or even an average HK in Germany or a factory refurbished new in grease at 650 euros SKS with a hump load of surplus 7.62X39 or a 30 cal M1 carbine or a mini 14 for under a grand with plenty of ammo, and will actually work and not be a heart breaker if the Govt here ever does enact that legislation and you are out a couple of grand in a confiscated rifle.
    What I would do, and am doing as I fancy a mini 14 next year, maybe.
    But I am not spending big bucks on another SA here for sure.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    From a bit of looking at the UK and the FAL in straight pull.
    About 2500 Stg starter IF you can find one, and they are known for extraction/ejection issues courtesy of the original FAL design itself.
    The AR/AK with rotating bolt heads are apparently better at the stght pull design.
    So 2750 euro appx is putting you into a good 2nd hand Oberland or new AR or even an average HK in Germany or a factory refurbished new in grease at 650 euros SKS with a hump load of surplus 7.62X39 or a 30 cal M1 carbine or a mini 14 for under a grand with plenty of ammo, and will actually work and not be a heart breaker if the Govt here ever does enact that legislation and you are out a couple of grand in a confiscated rifle.
    What I would do, and am doing as I fancy a mini 14 next year, maybe.
    But I am not spending big bucks on another SA here for sure.


    Anyone in ireland stocking 7.62x39 ammunition ? I fancied a cz bolt action in that calibre, no trouble getting a rifle but ammo could be a concern.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    From a bit of looking at the UK and the FAL in straight pull.
    About 2500 Stg starter IF you can find one, and they are known for extraction/ejection issues courtesy of the original FAL design itself.
    The AR/AK with rotating bolt heads are apparently better at the stght pull design.
    So 2750 euro appx is putting you into a good 2nd hand Oberland or new AR or even an average HK in Germany or a factory refurbished new in grease at 650 euros SKS with a hump load of surplus 7.62X39 or a 30 cal M1 carbine or a mini 14 for under a grand with plenty of ammo, and will actually work and not be a heart breaker if the Govt here ever does enact that legislation and you are out a couple of grand in a confiscated rifle.
    What I would do, and am doing as I fancy a mini 14 next year, maybe.
    But I am not spending big bucks on another SA here for sure.

    I know Griz but your like a broken record with all of this about the future, live in the present and it wont be an issue. The last thing I would want to be seen to be like is English in reference to their gun laws. They have their laws and we have ours.

    Griz you must be shopping at the Harrords Gun shop equivalent

    About 1200 euro for a L1A1 - A really good one, OR Fal that was manufactured semi auto
    1800 euro to 2k for a good AR 15
    A HK Piston driven AR you dont want, too expensive and too heavy and despite the hype there are much better out there for cheaper.
    M1 Carbine 1200 is the cheapest
    Mini 14's under 1k, I want the link??

    The other stuff well its just that..


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    jb88 wrote: »
    I know Griz but you're like a broken record with all of this about the future, live in the present and it won't be an issue. The last thing I would want to be seen to be like is English in reference to their gun laws. They have their laws and we have ours
    .

    Let's just say for the day that's in it[Pearl harbour memorial day]. We suffered our own version of that here in the Irish shooting community in Nov 2006, and the similarities on how the warnings and after-effects were handled by those in authority in both cases are striking....
    I don't fancy another one in the future here, with people running about like turkeys hearing about Christmas on Dec 1st looking at possibly losing highly expensive rifles, if and when, the Govt decide to enact that statue.

    I went thru this clusterfuk as did many others with CF handguns, and I'd hate to see people lose,or not be able to afford court cases to try and keep their property. Sorry,I just can't do this short-sightedness and "Shure be grand nuthin will ever happen!" attitude we have here.

    Just take it that Damoclean sword is over any new applications for S/A rifles and that you will have little to no chance of recovering any compensation if it ever happens.

    Griz you must be shopping at the Harrords Gun shop equivalent
    :p:p
    About 1200 euro for a L1A1 - A really good one, OR Fal that was manufactured semi auto

    Nope! About 2,700 Euros for a straight pull "FN style rifle" built with a new untapped for gas outlets barrel and little or no former select fire or semi-auto parts.
    1800 euro to 2k for a good AR 15

    This is the German gun dealers webpage,where you can trade directly with a dealer and these are the average prices for AR15s and AR10s in Germany on the rack in the gun stores.
    https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt/langwaffen~selbstladebuechsen.html?s_t=oberland&s_hk=13&s_sk=56&s_k=&s_z=&s_p=&s_d=&o=neu&v=

    A HK Piston driven AR you don't want, too expensive and too heavy and despite the hype there are much better out there for cheaper.

    Yeah,they do weigh in around the 20lb mark alright.;):p
    Should have been more specific and meant something like a HK 91/G3 clone or the like.

    https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt/langwaffen~selbstladebuechsen/ercbp9v1_m_k_e-mke_t41_g3_klon.html?s=1&s_t=HK&o=neu
    M1 Carbine 1200 is the cheapest

    Who is shopping a Harrods now??:) With a para and straight stock! I'd go for that myself!
    https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12808628#img

    Mini 14's under 1k, I want the link??

    There ya go!! 600 euros, and yes they will ship it to Mars if they have your money,or to a German gun dealer who'll be only too happy to send it to you in Ireland with the paperwork:p

    https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12782272#img

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    .

    Let's just say for the day that's in it[Pearl harbour memorial day]. We suffered our own version of that here in the Irish shooting community in Nov 2006, and the similarities on how the warnings and after-effects were handled by those in authority in both cases are striking....
    I don't fancy another one in the future here, with people running about like turkeys hearing about Christmas on Dec 1st looking at possibly losing highly expensive rifles, if and when, the Govt decide to enact that statue.

    I went thru this clusterfuk as did many others with CF handguns, and I'd hate to see people lose,or not be able to afford court cases to try and keep their property. Sorry,I just can't do this short-sightedness and "Shure be grand nuthin will ever happen!" attitude we have here.

    Just take it that Damoclean sword is over any new applications for S/A rifles and that you will have little to no chance of recovering any compensation if it ever happens.


    Yeah, happened to me, i was happily going along shooting the .45 every week, and then crash boom bang it was gone when little nasty baldyman signed the SI. I couldn't afford the court case, and wasn't borrowing money to take a punt in court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    .

    Let's just say for the day that's in it[Pearl harbour memorial day]. We suffered our own version of that here in the Irish shooting community in Nov 2006, and the similarities on how the warnings and after-effects were handled by those in authority in both cases are striking....
    I don't fancy another one in the future here, with people running about like turkeys hearing about Christmas on Dec 1st looking at possibly losing highly expensive rifles, if and when, the Govt decide to enact that statue.

    I went thru this clusterfuk as did many others with CF handguns, and I'd hate to see people lose,or not be able to afford court cases to try and keep their property. Sorry,I just can't do this short-sightedness and "Shure be grand nuthin will ever happen!" attitude we have here.

    Just take it that Damoclean sword is over any new applications for S/A rifles and that you will have little to no chance of recovering any compensation if it ever happens.


    :p:p



    Nope! About 2,700 Euros for a straight pull "FN style rifle" built with a new untapped for gas outlets barrel and little or no former select fire or semi-auto parts.



    This is the German gun dealers webpage,where you can trade directly with a dealer and these are the average prices for AR15s and AR10s in Germany on the rack in the gun stores.
    https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt/langwaffen~selbstladebuechsen.html?s_t=oberland&s_hk=13&s_sk=56&s_k=&s_z=&s_p=&s_d=&o=neu&v=




    Yeah,they do weigh in around the 20lb mark alright.;):p
    Should have been more specific and meant something like a HK 91/G3 clone or the like.

    https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt/langwaffen~selbstladebuechsen/ercbp9v1_m_k_e-mke_t41_g3_klon.html?s=1&s_t=HK&o=neu



    Who is shopping a Harrods now??:) With a para and straight stock! I'd go for that myself!
    https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12808628#img




    There ya go!! 600 euros, and yes they will ship it to Mars if they have your money,or to a German gun dealer who'll be only too happy to send it to you in Ireland with the paperwork:p

    https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12782272#img

    I take some of your points on board, but I have a few of these already so I know the prices, and straight pull is for the brits, not in Ireland, or if it is anyone who buys them is a fool who got rightly rode by an an English Gun Dealer.
    900 to 1200 for an FN


    STRAIGHT PULLS ARE FOR ENGLISH PEOPLE (I was going to say Girls, but that would be an insult to them)
    Only a fool of an Irish person in the republic would buy one, one with lots of money to waste..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    jb88 wrote: »
    STRAIGHT PULLS ARE FOR ENGLISH PEOPLE (I was going to say Girls, but that would be an insult to them)
    Only a fool of an Irish person in the republic would buy one, one with lots of money to waste..

    Or for people who worry that what happened before in the pistol ban, happens again with centrefire semi-auto rifles. A lot of people remember having to sell their prized possession's for a fraction of their value, i certainly do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    I think its a good strong drink I need instead of reading this sometimes


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    jb88 wrote: »
    I think its a good strong drink I need instead of reading this sometimes


    I fear i've opened more than just a can of worms with this one :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    But I bet you are 100%more informed on SA ownership in Ireland than before?😂

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Sorry to revive the thread again but just to close after all of the extremely helpful information above, i think i will get a year or two of range time under my belt (maybe with a mk3 or a g98) and then pursue one of the "converted to SA" FALs. So thank you all again for the replies!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Sorry to revive the thread again but just to close after all of the extremely helpful information above, i think i will get a year or two of range time under my belt (maybe with a mk3 or a g98) and then pursue one of the "converted to SA" FALs. So thank you all again for the replies!

    MK3 ? Lee enfield ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    tudderone wrote: »
    MK3 ? Lee enfield ?
    Yes sir


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Sorry to revive the thread again but just to close after all of the extremely helpful information above, i think i will get a year or two of range time under my belt (maybe with a mk3 or a g98) and then pursue one of the "converted to SA" FALs. So thank you all again for the replies!

    The G98 is a restricted rifle due to the caliber as 8mm Mauser is above the .308 cut off. I'd say the Lee Enfield in .303 would be a better choice, I haven't seen any G98 or any similar Mauser for sale, and the ammo wouldn't be readily available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    tudderone wrote: »
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »

    Yeah, happened to me, i was happily going along shooting the .45 every week, and then crash boom bang it was gone when little nasty baldyman signed the SI. I couldn't afford the court case, and wasn't borrowing money to take a punt in court.

    Out of curiosity, what model was it? A 1911?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    tudderone wrote: »

    Out of curiosity, what model was it? A 1911?

    Yes, single stack US army spec .45acp, the flying pumpkin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    You can buy an excellent Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 which aren't restricted. They are very accurate and ammo is easily available, they are cock on close so the action is fast. Some think they are better than the German Mausers.

    Norwegian Mausers were german rifles surrendered at the end of the war, and rebarreled by Norway to .30-06. Great if you can find one.

    Enfields are great, the only fly in the ointment is the surplus ammo is long gone and smmo isn't going to be as cheap as you imagined.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »

    Yes, single stack US army spec .45acp, the flying pumpkin.

    Not a Norinco 1911 GI issue be chance?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    You can buy an excellent Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 which aren't restricted. They are very accurate and ammo is easily available, they are cock on close so the action is fast. Some think they are better than the German Mausers.

    Norwegian Mausers were german rifles surrendered at the end of the war, and rebarreled by Norway to .30-06. Great if you can find one.

    Enfields are great, the only fly in the ointment is the surplus ammo is long gone and smmo isn't going to be as cheap as you imagined.

    The Swede Mausers are considerd the Rolls Royce of the Mauser world.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    juice1304 wrote: »
    Its legal in Germany to make a lever release. The law you're thinking of is in relation to them manufacturing semi-autos on the same machines and tooling as they make full autos on. It was to try and prevent the public from being able to buy the SL8 however HK just decided to spend 4 million euros on another machine instead so it made no difference.
    Although it would be legal to make you would be paying someone to develop the modification again. And the reason they are banned in the uk is because with minimal modification you could turn it into a full auto. Personally, i wouldn't bother with one.

    That makes about as much sense as telling a car manufacturer that they can’t make a rally spec car and a road legal one under the same roof....


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