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Possible to get L1a1 or FAL?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    juice1304 wrote: »
    Its legal in Germany to make a lever release. The law you're thinking of is in relation to them manufacturing semi-autos on the same machines and tooling as they make full autos on. It was to try and prevent the public from being able to buy the SL8 however HK just decided to spend 4 million euros on another machine instead so it made no difference.
    Although it would be legal to make you would be paying someone to develop the modification again. And the reason they are banned in the uk is because with minimal modification you could turn it into a full auto. Personally, i wouldn't bother with one.

    My question to all of this is why??? Why do you want to make an Englishman's mistake your folly?
    When you dont have the UK restrictions on Mars guns why at any stage would anyone in the Republic consider it, and dont give me the BS on competing, thats just pie in the sky...

    The same for straight pulls which are essentially ruined classic rifles or black bolt action guns.

    Im laughing fairly hard here at anyone who needs that rubbish. And thats what it is expensive rubbish made to do things to conform to criteria set down by the brits.


    And its nigh on impossible or without serious gun skills, tonnes of money and access to a serious engineering shop to turn a semi automatic into a full auto, unless you want fake fingers and a good plastic surgeon to look forward too.
    Even then odds are you will be lucky to survive the first few rounds.

    Lets get things straight for the kids in the back row, and everyone else.
    All this information about converting to a full auto for many of the now licenced types of semi auto centre fires in Ireland is about as smart as having a cigarette after dousing yourself in petrol, liable to ruin.

    The components are so different and the sizes and dimensions altered so much that its almost possible.

    Remember they banned full auto conversions to semi in the last SI if im not mistaken for a reason..

    Aside from the fact, you cant get a licence for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    jb88 wrote: »
    My question to all of this is why??? Why do you want to make an Englishman's mistake your folly?
    When you dont have the UK restrictions on Mars guns why at any stage would anyone in the Republic consider it, and dont give me the BS on competing, thats just pie in the sky...

    The same for straight pulls which are essentially ruined classic rifles or black bolt action guns.

    Im laughing fairly hard here at anyone who needs that rubbish. And thats what it is expensive rubbish made to do things to conform to criteria set down by the brits.


    And its nigh on impossible or without serious gun skills, tonnes of money and access to a serious engineering shop to turn a semi automatic into a full auto, unless you want fake fingers and a good plastic surgeon to look forward too.
    Even then odds are you will be lucky to survive the first few rounds.

    Lets get things straight for the kids in the back row, and everyone else.
    All this information about converting to a full auto for many of the now licenced types of semi auto centre fires in Ireland is about as smart as having a cigarette after dousing yourself in petrol, liable to ruin.

    The components are so different and the sizes and dimensions altered so much that its almost possible.

    Remember they banned full auto conversions to semi in the last SI if im not mistaken for a reason..

    Aside from the fact, you cant get a licence for it.

    I think people who held licences for conversions before sometime in 2017 are allowed to keep them. Also what actually constitutes a full auto conversion, where do they draw the line? Take an FN FAL for example, if have a semi auto one are you allowed to swap out say the barrel or receiver? Are you allowed to make your own receiver and use full auto parts, technically it's not converting one but wheres the cut off point? Just some food for thought anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,424 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    I think people who held licences for conversions before sometime in 2017 are allowed to keep them. Also what actually constitutes a full auto conversion, where do they draw the line? Take an FN FAL for example, if have a semi auto one are you allowed to swap out say the barrel or receiver? Are you allowed to make your own receiver and use full auto parts, technically it's not converting one but wheres the cut off point? Just some food for thought anyway.

    Re the 2017 thing...ASFIK NOPE! However, there are probably maybe oh... between five to 10 of these types of guns here in Ireland, and there is no way to prove that they were former assault rifles,bar a technical examination to prove this,of which when I talked to DOJ in person 2020 they have no way, means or qualified personnel to prove or disprove,it's probably so far down on the list of priorities as not to worry about.

    As for a conversion.I'll answer this in the German context of an M16or X177 Colt Commando and Sten rebuild done by Waffen Niedermeyer in Munich, as they are still building and selling these.

    It's a complete rebuild of the gun.
    About the only original parts are probably the lower receiver and upper and handguards, and even the lower is remodified, in such the 3rd hole is we tig welded and the select-fire control pocket is filled in again with an aluminium block. The only thing that says it was a former M16 is the colt logo and the 3rd marking for FA on the receiver. The barrel is replaced, the entire fire control group, the bolt carrier is semi auto only BCG, and the supplied mag is a 10 round only.

    The Sten irrespective of mark
    Probably the stock and the mag well and some hold it together bits are original.
    The bolt is machined either larger or smaller than the original spec bolt so a FA bolt cant be dropped in. The cocking lever slot and receiver length is specifically designed to make original parts inoperative if they were put in. The feeder ramp lips on the bolt are machined differently. The whole trigger mechanism is built to be semi-auto only,the selector button only has safe and semi ,and a new barrel. In short, it would be easier to go and build a Luty or an Ulster special than re work this to a select-fire STEN.

    Then they are packed off to the Federal police technical lab in Wiesbaden for examination. The job there is to see can they be converted back to select fire with normal household tools, and that it doesn't fall foul of the war weapons act.... Germans don't consider lathes and milling machines normal DIY tools in the hobby basement. And these lads have titles like Dr or Prof in front of their names in things like engineering and firearms designs.
    So if they cant do it, you are good to sell this on the German and EU market by default.

    Off it goes then to Ulm or the like for a proof house testing, and then you can buy it on the open market.At a snip for 2,225 euros ,pay in advance:D https://www.waffen-niedermeier.de/de/shop/langwaffen/10673_colt_niedermeier_gmbh_xm177__

    940 for the sten if available
    https://www.waffen-niedermeier.de/de/shop/langwaffen/10331_verschiedene_sten_sa_mkii.html

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    I think people who held licences for conversions before sometime in 2017 are allowed to keep them. Also what actually constitutes a full auto conversion, where do they draw the line? Take an FN FAL for example, if have a semi auto one are you allowed to swap out say the barrel or receiver? Are you allowed to make your own receiver and use full auto parts, technically it's not converting one but wheres the cut off point? Just some food for thought anyway.

    Not sure if you could ever hold a licence for a "conversion", and again how do you prove it. (GR what number exactly ;-) )
    When the govt ban something it is that, a ban.
    You need to understand the complexities of a conversion, its not some backroom mechanic you need for this. There is a reason its so hard, and oh yes everything on youtube is 100% honest.. Gotta love stupid people making stuff public.

    I think you need a good look at the legislation here, its very clear on having a firearms manufacturing licence in order to do this. Its not food for thought, some less sensible person might read this and think its ok to do.
    ITS NOT,

    If you alter something into something that is against the law, then there are big consequences if you are caught. But as I said before in the case of AR's you need a different set up internally and externally if it were easy every .223 sporter in America would be converted to full Auto.

    No food for though required, its Very Dangerous, Very illegal and Very difficult.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    jb88 wrote: »
    Not sure if you could ever hold a licence for a "conversion", and again how do you prove it. (GR what number exactly ;-) )
    When the govt ban something it is that, a ban.
    You need to understand the complexities of a conversion, its not some backroom mechanic you need for this. There is a reason its so hard, and oh yes everything on youtube is 100% honest.. Gotta love stupid people making stuff public.

    I think you need a good look at the legislation here, its very clear on having a firearms manufacturing licence in order to do this. Its not food for thought, some less sensible person might read this and think its ok to do.
    ITS NOT,

    If you alter something into something that is against the law, then there are big consequences if you are caught. But as I said before in the case of AR's you need a different set up internally and externally if it were easy every .223 sporter in America would be converted to full Auto.

    No food for though required, its Very Dangerous, Very illegal and Very difficult.


    I dunno about that, very serious consequences if you are caught doing anything like that in America. A long time in a prison that makes ours look like butlins holiday camps.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    tudderone wrote: »
    I dunno about that, very serious consequences if you are caught doing anything like that in America. A long time in a prison that makes ours look like butlins holiday camps.

    Not having a face or limbs being the first issue, Prison, they wont even get that far.
    Special kind of Stupid reserved for that individual


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    jb88 wrote: »
    Not sure if you could ever hold a licence for a "conversion", and again how do you prove it. (GR what number exactly ;-) )
    When the govt ban something it is that, a ban.
    You need to understand the complexities of a conversion, its not some backroom mechanic you need for this. There is a reason its so hard, and oh yes everything on youtube is 100% honest.. Gotta love stupid people making stuff public.

    I think you need a good look at the legislation here, its very clear on having a firearms manufacturing licence in order to do this. Its not food for thought, some less sensible person might read this and think its ok to do.
    ITS NOT,

    If you alter something into something that is against the law, then there are big consequences if you are caught. But as I said before in the case of AR's you need a different set up internally and externally if it were easy every .223 sporter in America would be converted to full Auto.

    No food for though required, its Very Dangerous, Very illegal and Very difficult.

    I think you're misinterpreting the points I was making. I was just talking about what point does a semi auto become a a full auto converted to semi auto, a conversion. I wasn't saying anything about rifles that were converted or modified, I was basically asking where the legislation draws a line with what parts are interchangeable with full auto rifle, NOT CONVERTING SEMI AUTO TO FULL AUTO!!!!!! Like can you put an M16 barrel on an AR-15 for example or something along those lines.

    I think you've just seen me asking about what defines a conversion from a semi auto and ran with the idea that I want to make machine guns, which I can assure you isn't the case.

    If you have anything to contribute, that would be nice but don't misinterpret my posts, whether through malicious intent or pure incompetence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    I think you're misinterpreting the points I was making. I was just talking about what point does a semi auto become a a full auto converted to semi auto, a conversion. I wasn't saying anything about rifles that were converted or modified, I was basically asking where the legislation draws a line with what parts are interchangeable with full auto rifle, NOT CONVERTING SEMI AUTO TO FULL AUTO!!!!!! Like can you put an M16 barrel on an AR-15 for example or something along those lines.

    I think you've just seen me asking about what defines a conversion from a semi auto and ran with the idea that I want to make machine guns, which I can assure you isn't the case.

    If you have anything to contribute, that would be nice but don't misinterpret my posts, whether through malicious intent or pure incompetence.

    The lowers on the ar15 and m16 are completely different, despite appearances, and the lowers from one won't fit the other and visa-versa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    tudderone wrote: »
    The lowers on the ar15 and m16 are completely different, despite appearances, and the lowers from one won't fit the other and visa-versa.

    Really? I could have sworn I saw a video of someone put an ar upper on an m16 lower. Maybe it was a ar full auto lower from the 60s. But anyway, it was just an example you get the analogy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭ juice1304


    jb88 wrote: »
    And its nigh on impossible or without serious gun skills, tonnes of money and access to a serious engineering shop to turn a semi automatic into a full auto, unless you want fake fingers and a good plastic surgeon to look forward too.
    Even then odds are you will be lucky to survive the first few rounds..

    It doesn't at all that is complete nonsense.
    I explained how the basic functionality works in a very vague way and i was told not to talk about it but that is simply wrong and im not going to go into it in any further detail.
    The barrel is the pressure vessel so if it will work semi without blowing up it will do the same in any other type of fire unless it changes the locking times.
    Everyone in the thread above saying parts dont fit etc dont understand how it works.
    And it makes no difference because its prohibited here unless you have authorization from the minister.
    This conversation stands only to embolden ignorant politicians.
    The simple fact of the matter is that unless someone manufacturers one of these types of firearms completely from scratch it is going to be banned under EU law and the only function they serve is to look cool.
    And if someone does that because semi-autos are banned they will also be banned like in England because it is possible to make them semi again or like the conversation above.
    Its a pointless exercise arguing about this especially when so many dont understand the basic function of a semi-auto and the mechanical differences in the mars or lever release.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,424 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Really? I could have sworn I saw a video of someone put an ar upper on an m16 lower. Maybe it was a ar full auto lower from the 60s. But anyway, it was just an example you get the analogy.

    Need to see the vid /thread to comment?Got a link?
    And that wont function either,as it still needs an M16 bolt carrier.
    Now,it is possible it was an AR 15 from that era with a so called "drop in auto sear"Which made the gun fire on full auto only. However that part nowadays is and must be registerd as a "machine gun"itself with BATFE
    The AR lower had been redesigned numerous times by manufacturers in the US to prevent this.
    So much that Colt even made their M16 upper a properity design in the 90s by making the forward hinge pin holes smaller/larger?so it would not work on Colt lowers designed for ARs.
    Simple fact is;Just putting M16 parts like the bolt carrier into an AR upper wont make an instant machine gun.
    You need the fire controls in the lower and that requires some machine shop skills as well as now federally registerd and controlled parts.As well as being very illegal to do this.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Need to see the vid /thread to comment?Got a link?
    And that wont function either,as it still needs an M16 bolt carrier.
    Now,it is possible it was an AR 15 from that era with a so called "drop in auto sear"Which made the gun fire on full auto only. However that part nowadays is and must be registerd as a "machine gun"itself with BATFE
    The AR lower had been redesigned numerous times by manufacturers in the US to prevent this.
    So much that Colt even made their M16 upper a properity design in the 90s by making the forward hinge pin holes smaller/larger?so it would not work on Colt lowers designed for ARs.
    Simple fact is;Just putting M16 parts like the bolt carrier into an AR upper wont make an instant machine gun.
    You need the fire controls in the lower and that requires some machine shop skills as well as now federally registerd and controlled parts.As well as being very illegal to do this.

    I've heard of a drop in auto sear before, but this wasn't it. Here's the video and there's more like it if you're interested:D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw

    I got confused between an M16 lower and a machine lower for an AR. The video was done by an actual gun dealer in the US so I assume he has all his ducks in a row, legally speaking. But can you swap an M16 barrel or any other pressure bearing parts with an AR?

    Just a reminder to any moderators, I'm not trying to break the law, I'm just trying to find the extent of it. Just off the top of my head, firearms components are classes as firearms, so if you take something as mundane as a trigger spring from a full auto and put it in a semi auto, does that mean you've made a full auto firearm into a semi auto and hence banned? Purely theoretical, I don't plan to do anything like this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,495 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    I've heard of a drop in auto sear before, but this wasn't it. Here's the video and there's more like it if you're interested:D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw

    I got confused between an M16 lower and a machine lower for an AR. The video was done by an actual gun dealer in the US so I assume he has all his ducks in a row, legally speaking. But can you swap an M16 barrel or any other pressure bearing parts with an AR?

    I'm not an expert but swapping barrels is probably possible but it's not possible with most of the other pressure bearing parts. But then, the barrel doesn't have anything to do with making it fully auto. The lower and bolt carrier group is where most of it is at.


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm not an expert but swapping barrels is probably possible but it's not possible with most of the other pressure bearing parts. But then, the barrel doesn't have anything to do with making it fully auto. The lower and bolt carrier group is where most of it is at.

    I know that, but if the law considers gun components to be firearms on their own and full auto to semi auto conversions are banned. Then are you allowed to put an M16 barrel which is legally a full auto firearm, on an AR making it a semi auto? Or does the law not differentiate between full auto components and any other components? It might be a question for Cass :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,495 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    I know that, but if the law considers gun components to be firearms on their own and full auto to semi auto conversions are banned. Then are you allowed to put an M16 barrel which is legally a full auto firearm, on an AR making it a semi auto? Or does the law not differentiate between full auto components and any other components? It might be a question for Cass :D

    If they barrels are interchangable, in other words if the M16 barrel fits the AR15, then I see no reason why you can't change them. It doesn't change the function of the rifle. It's still a semi-auto rifle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,424 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    I've heard of a drop in auto sear before, but this wasn't it. Here's the video and there's more like it if you're interested:D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw

    I got confused between an M16 lower and a machine lower for an AR. The video was done by an actual gun dealer in the US so I assume he has all his ducks in a row, legally speaking. But can you swap an M16 barrel or any other pressure bearing parts with an AR?

    .

    Iraqi vet 8888.
    Yes he is a title 3 dealer,so he can do fun stuff like this in his state.
    I'd ASSume he was running an M4 lower with an M4 BCG in the upper to get it to burn like that. You can't really tell from the close up of the front of the BCG in the vid, but I'd say with 95% certainty it is a FA BCG.

    Can you put an M16 barrel in An AR upper? Good question, Technically it isn't a big deal to do a barrel swap. All of 20 mins of a job. Is it LEGAL to do so ??

    In the EU categorically NO, as it is a pressure-bearing part for one and if from military stocks, probably, depending on were sourced from, no doubt not proof house tested to be sold on the civvie market
    [2] the EU legislation considers a part of a former military select-fire rifle,so it will fall foul of the legislation
    [3] WHY? it will more than likely have had a good few hundred thousand rounds down it and be a virtual smoothbore.:D MILSPEC means it was made by the cheapest bidder on a Govt contract with the most basic tolerances to satisfy a Govt specification.

    In the US...Ask BATFE and get a written answer that will last as long as they think it is valid. But as you have such a choice of New M4 style barrels or in any configuration you want, no one would bother.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    I think you're misinterpreting the points I was making. I was just talking about what point does a semi auto become a a full auto converted to semi auto, a conversion. I wasn't saying anything about rifles that were converted or modified, I was basically asking where the legislation draws a line with what parts are interchangeable with full auto rifle, NOT CONVERTING SEMI AUTO TO FULL AUTO!!!!!! Like can you put an M16 barrel on an AR-15 for example or something along those lines.

    I think you've just seen me asking about what defines a conversion from a semi auto and ran with the idea that I want to make machine guns, which I can assure you isn't the case.

    If you have anything to contribute, that would be nice but don't misinterpret my posts, whether through malicious intent or pure incompetence.

    Youtube, Google and a few other search engines are your friend here


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,424 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Iraqi vet 8888.

    I'd ASSume he was running an M4 lower with an M4 BCG in the upper to get it to burn like that. You can't really tell from the close up of the front of the BCG in the vid, but I'd say with 95% certainty it is a FA BCG.

    Yup..Just to further clarify that point.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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