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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #5522
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    In the meantime let us pray our politicians will not take note of what is happening in Slovakia as they are most likely to try it here.

    To summarize it Slovakian prime minister who was recently caught that he obtained his university degree by using someone else to write his diploma thesis and refused to resign as he felt he need to carry on to do what he promised....
    declared that the whole country has to be tested over this weekend.
    Whoever would not get tested will have to stay out of the workplace for a week. Various members of government then went public stating that employers will have the power to ask people coming to work to show them a negative certificate. This is so against the law that various lawyers started to warn that it is against law and even against the constitution. Even the president warned the prime minister that this will create 2 tier system in population.
    EU officials are extremely pleased as they said this experiment will be valuable to learn from.
    This shows that the push for some sort of certification or health passports is real and it is coming. This is like training to develop some similar system that will be implemented not just for testing but most likely for subsequent vaccination programs. If the legislation will be put in place to cover testing then it can be tweaked just a little to allow mandatory vaccination too.


  • #5523
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Sweden had 3,188 new cases today, and they are 2 weeks behind Ireland and everywhere else in rising cases. 5 of their regions comprising 2/3 of their population are now in local lockdown.


    Tegnell now says that it is futile and immoral to seek herd immunity and the transmission of an infection like Covid-19 cannot be halted without a vaccine.

    2/3 of Sweden’s population are not in lockdown.
    If you say they are, prove it.


  • #5524
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Sweden had 3,188 new cases today, and they are 2 weeks behind Ireland and everywhere else in rising cases. 5 of their regions comprising 2/3 of their population are now in local lockdown.


    Tegnell now says that it is futile and immoral to seek herd immunity and the transmission of an infection like Covid-19 cannot be halted without a vaccine.

    Czech republic had 7k today. Double the Sweden with nearly identical population number.

    There is no vaccine in testing which will halt covid. There won't be one available for a few years.


  • #5525
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,179 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Tony Holohan.
    There is no hope coming from him, none at all


    Can't remember him promoting an endless lockdown at any stage and don't really see why he would have such an agenda to be honest.


  • #5526
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    john4321 wrote: »
    Can't remember him promoting an endless lockdown at any stage and don't really see why he would have such an agenda to be honest.

    Nobody knows.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/tony-holohan-community-transmission-5102798-May2020/

    That link is from May, no community transmission.

    Leaving cert cancelled, schools shut, retail shut, hospitality shut.

    There is no way out


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  • #5527
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,598 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    normanoffside wrote: »
    2/3 of Sweden’s population are not in lockdown.
    If you say they are, prove it.


    First region to do so was Uppsala. Their equivalent of Tegnell Johan Nojd said "It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"
    Uppsala has since been joined by Skane, Stockholm, Vatra Gotland and Oster Gotland. Total population of those five regions is 6.2 million.


  • #5528
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,598 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Czech republic had 7k today. Double the Sweden with nearly identical population number.

    There is no vaccine in testing which will halt covid. There won't be one available for a few years.


    You wereone of the backers of the Swedish herd immunity strategy were you not. You think that is working ?


  • #5529
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,179 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Nobody knows.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/tony-holohan-community-transmission-5102798-May2020/

    That link is from May, no community transmission.

    Leaving cert cancelled, schools shut, retail shut, hospitality shut.

    There is no way out


    Back to my question Ill ask again can you provide a single media outlet or poster who advocates endless restrictions?


    I don't see it mentioned it in the Journal article from May you linked and goes against the narrative of the other poster who said:

    "Tony Holohan.
    There is no hope coming from him, none at all


  • #5530
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    john4321 wrote: »
    Back to my question Ill ask again can you provide a single media outlet or poster who advocates endless restrictions?


    I don't see it mentioned it in the Journal article from May you linked and goes against the narrative of the other poster who said:

    "Tony Holohan.
    There is no hope coming from him, none at all

    I’ve displayed evidence of low case rates and continued restrictions.

    It’s now up to you, to display to the jury that it can be assumed that the restrictions can end at some point


  • #5531
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    charlie14 wrote: »
    You wereone of the backers of the Swedish herd immunity strategy were you not. You think that is working ?

    Excuse me. That is most likely what you think but not what I said.
    I was and still am backer of Swedish approach. It was perfectly clear from the start that this virus is far from what we were told it will be. Mostly based on what was happening in China which is the most populous country.

    Herd immunity? Give me a break. It was pretty evident from the start that this term does not apply to covid as it does not apply to most of other respiratory viruses.


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  • #5532
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,179 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I’ve displayed evidence of low case rates and continued restrictions.

    It’s now up to you, to display to the jury that it can be assumed that the restrictions can end at some point


    I just asked you to provide a single example of what you said.


    "The media, and those in favour of endless restrictions"


    No bother if you can't we will leave it at that.


  • #5533
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,598 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Excuse me. That is most likely what you think but not what I said.
    I was and still am backer of Swedish approach. It was perfectly clear from the start that this virus is far from what we were told it will be. Mostly based on what was happening in China which is the most populous country.

    Herd immunity? Give me a break. It was pretty evident from the start that this term does not apply to covid as it does not apply to most of other respiratory viruses.


    Well it was obvious from the beginning for anyone other than those that did not wish to see it, that Sweden`s primary strategy was herd immunity. The freedom of information e-mails just provided further proof.
    Their economic argument went out the window with the 2nd quarter GDP results and their true unemployment figures are 19% according to one of their own leading banks.
    6.2 million of their 10 million population is in local lockdown and like everywhere else they are pining their hopes on a vaccine. Even Tegnell has finally admitted that.
    They have 60% more deaths per capita than Ireland, they are fifth highest in Europe, they are two weeks behind the rest of Europe and their new case numbers are going through the roof

    So what is left in Sweden`s strategy to back. ?


  • #5534
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    john4321 wrote: »
    I just asked you to provide a single example of what you said.


    "The media, and those in favour of endless restrictions"


    No bother if you can't we will leave it at that.

    I’ve gave my statement John.

    I’m waiting for yours.

    Like our last clash of heads I’m sure you will head off into the sunset for a few months to reappear when you hope I have forgotten


  • #5535
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,179 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I’ve gave my statement John.

    I’m waiting for yours.

    Like our last clash of heads I’m sure you will head off into the sunset for a few months to reappear when you hope I have forgotten


    You posted a statement that you have not backed up saying media outlets and posters want an endless lockdown.

    I just asked for something to back that up as I haven't seen a single instance of it.


    I think my last post to you was this topic was:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114587963&postcount=4753

    Still awaiting a reply.


  • #5536
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    john4321 wrote: »
    You posted a statement that you have not backed up saying media outlets and posters want an endless lockdown.

    I just asked for something to back that up as I haven't seen a single instance of it.


    I think my last post to you was this topic was:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114587963&postcount=4753

    Still awaiting a reply.

    The facts are that the flu is more lethal to those under 65. I’m not sure what you require me to say to justify the link? It’s all available online.

    Are you unable to quantify when Ireland will be able to relax restrictions in the manner most of Europe did last Summer


  • #5537
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,179 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    The facts are that the flu is more lethal to those under 65. I’m not sure what you require me to say to justify the link? It’s all available online.

    Are you unable to quantify when Ireland will be able to relax restrictions in the manner most of Europe did last Summer


    Such disingenuous posting there.

    This was the question:

    You posted a statement that you have not backed up saying media outlets and posters want an endless lockdown.

    I just asked for something to back that up as I haven't seen a single instance of it.


    You said:

    "Like our last clash of heads I’m sure you will head off into the sunset for a few months to reappear when you hope I have forgotten"



    I didn't do anything you stated you never replied.


  • #5538
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,204 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    The facts are that the flu is more lethal to those under 65.

    Since you are passing around reckless disinformation you need to provide a link preferably to a peer reviewed scientific paper that's backs up your assertion.

    Kindly do so.


  • #5539
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I’ve gave my statement John.

    I’m waiting for yours.

    Like our last clash of heads I’m sure you will head off into the sunset for a few months to reappear when you hope I have forgotten

    Your statement didn't answer the question. It's how you always play it...answer a different question and then deflect back to the OP.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #5540
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Penfailed wrote: »
    Your statement didn't answer the question. It's how you always play it...answer a different question and then deflect back to the OP.

    I beg your pardon, I never once said this issue would be solved with critical thinking alone.

    Why have you suggested so


  • #5541
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I beg your pardon, I never once said this issue would be solved with critical thinking alone.

    Why have you suggested so

    ...and again. Well played.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



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  • #5542
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Well it was obvious from the beginning for anyone other than those that did not wish to see it, that Sweden`s primary strategy was herd immunity. The freedom of information e-mails just provided further proof.
    Their economic argument went out the window with the 2nd quarter GDP results and their true unemployment figures are 19% according to one of their own leading banks.
    6.2 million of their 10 million population is in local lockdown and like everywhere else they are pining their hopes on a vaccine. Even Tegnell has finally admitted that.
    They have 60% more deaths per capita than Ireland, they are fifth highest in Europe, they are two weeks behind the rest of Europe and their new case numbers are going through the roof

    So what is left in Sweden`s strategy to back. ?

    Pretty much everything.
    It is pretty naive to think that lockdowns which are nothing but lockdown of the economy can stop or even slow down the spread. And it is clear now that so eagerly awaited vaccines are not going to achieve the same too.
    Pretty much time people realize that and move on.


  • #5543
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,092 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    john4321 wrote: »
    I just asked you to provide a single example of what you said.


    "The media, and those in favour of endless restrictions"


    No bother if you can't we will leave it at that.

    Finny just spreads misinformation, fear and hysteria. Its dissapointing he seems to have a dedicated crew hanging off and agreeing to his every word.


  • #5544
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Pretty much everything.
    It is pretty naive to think that lockdowns which are nothing but lockdown of the economy can stop or even slow down the spread. And it is clear now that so eagerly awaited vaccines are not going to achieve the same too.
    Pretty much time people realize that and move on.

    Oh, lockdowns will slow down the spread alright but do nothing to stop COVID as it's an endemic respiratory virus. The frightening part is we just had a budget with a staggering deficit of 21 billion, which will probably rise to 23/24 billion by year end. Yet, despite this eye watering amount of money being spent we haven't got a functioning test and trace system in place, no additional ICU or hospital capacity, and 300,000 on PUP.

    If those facts don't change people's minds on the madness of these lockdowns then nothing will.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #5545
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    charlie14 wrote: »
    First region to do so was Uppsala. Their equivalent of Tegnell Johan Nojd said "It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"
    Uppsala has since been joined by Skane, Stockholm, Vatra Gotland and Oster Gotland. Total population of those five regions is 6.2 million.

    You mean this Uppsala, the one where despite tougher restrictions everything is still open and it’s up to individual people to decide what’s best for them??

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/sweden-coronavirus-local-lockdown-uppsala/amp/


  • #5546
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    In the meantime let us pray our politicians will not take note of what is happening in Slovakia as they are most likely to try it here.

    To summarize it Slovakian prime minister who was recently caught that he obtained his university degree by using someone else to write his diploma thesis and refused to resign as he felt he need to carry on to do what he promised....
    declared that the whole country has to be tested over this weekend.
    Whoever would not get tested will have to stay out of the workplace for a week. Various members of government then went public stating that employers will have the power to ask people coming to work to show them a negative certificate. This is so against the law that various lawyers started to warn that it is against law and even against the constitution. Even the president warned the prime minister that this will create 2 tier system in population.
    EU officials are extremely pleased as they said this experiment will be valuable to learn from.
    This shows that the push for some sort of certification or health passports is real and it is coming. This is like training to develop some similar system that will be implemented not just for testing but most likely for subsequent vaccination programs. If the legislation will be put in place to cover testing then it can be tweaked just a little to allow mandatory vaccination too.

    I could just picture Bill Gates hearings this and rubbing his hands together.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #5547
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,092 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    walus wrote: »
    I could just picture Bill Gates hearings this and rubbing his hands together.

    Not George Soros?


  • #5548
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Not George Soros?
    I think that Bill with his investment in vaccine development, advocacy for an electronic health passport leading to various strategies for people’s health data monetisation is a poster boy here.

    Why do you think Soros is a better choice?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #5549
    manniot2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 713 ✭✭✭manniot2


    JRant wrote: »
    Oh, lockdowns will slow down the spread alright but do nothing to stop COVID as it's an endemic respiratory virus. The frightening part is we just had a budget with a staggering deficit of 21 billion, which will probably rise to 23/24 billion by year end. Yet, despite this eye watering amount of money being spent we haven't got a functioning test and trace system in place, no additional ICU or hospital capacity, and 300,000 on PUP.

    If those facts don't change people's minds on the madness of these lockdowns then nothing will.

    The sad reality is that a large cohort don’t care. Many are unaffected and many others don’t understand.

    My parents are mid 60s, retired and massively in favour of lockdown. No matter what I tell them about the adverse impacts, they don’t want to know.


  • #5550
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    john4321 wrote: »
    Can you provide a single media outlet or poster who advocates endless restrictions?


    I don't get these kind of cheap soundbites, No one wants restrictions not a single person, The majority of the population understand why they are required on a temporary basis.


    We can increase hospital and ICU capacity but will always hit a limit unfortunately thats the nature of this virus.

    I won’t name the poster as I was cautioned previously for doing so. But there is a poster on here who believes the solution to our below par health system is imposing permanent restrictions on nightlife and curfews etc. He has actually posted in just the last few pages. And he got quite a few thumbs up for suggesting it.

    So there are plenty out there that do support endless restrictions.

    Also, I’m not sure how much you have read about the vaccine. But a lot of experts are now saying that even a vaccine is only weapon to use against Covid. Saying that there will still be restrictions.

    If you can’t provide an end date for the restrictions, it is fair to say they are endless as of this moment in time.

    Of course they will technically end at some point. The planet will too. And all of us will die. 99.99% won’t be from or with Covid as well.


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  • #5551
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    charlie14 wrote: »
    First region to do so was Uppsala. Their equivalent of Tegnell Johan Nojd said "It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"
    Uppsala has since been joined by Skane, Stockholm, Vatra Gotland and Oster Gotland. Total population of those five regions is 6.2 million.

    Are the pubs and restaurants open for indoor dining?
    Is all retail open?
    Are museums, cinemas etc open?
    Are universities open?

    The answer to all the above is yes. It’s like our level 1


This discussion has been closed.
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