Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

yosemitesam1 · 16-10-2020 07:43AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Completely disagree.

If we let this run wild... we will have many young people facing a lifetime of long covid - chronic fatigue.

If ICU capacity is breached we will have people dying who could have been saved... the demographic with highest ICU admission is 55-64.

If surge ICU capacity is activated it will mean the cancellation of many other mon covid operations and procedures.

We need to keep a lid on this. The stakes are not just 80+ year olds in nursing homes.

We have taken maybe a million years of life from the whole population so far due to restrictions (surviving under restrictions isn't living)
Say 10,000 people die if left unchecked, average age 75 (both are very pessimistic figures). Loss of 100,000 years of life.

Which is better? Consider also there's a long road of restrictions ahead of us, so the amount of life taken from the whole population will only grow whilst it's impossible to quantify deaths from loneliness/depression

odyssey06 · 16-10-2020 08:08AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We have taken maybe a million years of life from the whole population so far due to restrictions (surviving under restrictions isn't living)

You're directly equating actual death and serious illness and hospitalisation 'life years' lost with 'living under restrictions'. Null and void argument.
Nobody is denying restrictions are easy, but your argument jumped the shark there. Morale is down, optimism is down, some people are struggling, but it's not the same struggle as someone in ICU, or someone who isn't coming back.
What about the loneliness of people who lose parents, spouses to this pandemic?

yosemitesam1 · 16-10-2020 08:15AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

You're directly equating actual death and serious illness and hospitalisation 'life years' lost with 'living under restrictions'. Null and void argument.
Nobody is denying restrictions are easy, but your argument jumped the shark there.

There's a big difference between living and surviving. I know which I'd rather even if it means that I might die younger

odyssey06 · 16-10-2020 08:17AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There's a big difference between living and surviving. I know which I'd rather even if it means that I might die younger

I agree, but there's a vast chasm between dying and surviving. You can survive for X period and return to living. You can't cross that chasm.

Neddyusa · 16-10-2020 08:30AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I agree, but there's a vast chasm between dying and surviving. You can survive for X period and return to living. You can't cross that chasm.

That's the problem - the civil servants making the restrictions have absolutely no aim or plan for the return to living bit.

DBK1 · 16-10-2020 09:22AM

Albert Johnson wrote: »

An elderly man from my own locality is in a similar situation in a local town. He's a bachelor so see's no one only passers by outside and the local supermarket delivery driver. This man was a very sociable individual and a great man to attend marts, festivals ect and was never off the road. He sold his farm a few years back and bought a nice house in town to spend his final few years in comfort. It's ironic that it's become almost a prison to him as he is afraid to venture outside and has less freedom than when he lived in the countryside.

I don't know how he's managed to maintain any sort of sanity having been under house arrest since March and there's still no end in sight. He spends the day reading or watching TV. I think he's lost the courage by now to venture outside and I'm afraid he'll be stuck indoors for whatever length he remains above the ground. It's his own decision of course but that's simply existing and not living imo. I'll be shot down for this but I'm convinced he was better to have died in March. It's hard to believe that so called expert's believe that the above constitutes "living" for the vulnerable minorities for quite possibly years to come.

Hi Albert,

While I don’t doubt that this type of scenario is happening around the country is this an actual story or just hearsay? I think this is the third place I’ve read that exact story. See link to a Journal article below and that story almost word for word is in the comments section.

Would the neighbours or passers by that used to stop to chat this man not make the effort to still stop and just talk to him through the window or while he is standing in his doorway and make sure they are 2 plus metres away from him?

Unfortunately with the amount of people that won’t just follow simple guidelines there is no choice but to shut things down further. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no saint and I’m definitely guilty of not sticking rigidly to the guidelines but I think if everyone just does their best and even does 80 or 90% of what’s being asked, especially around more vulnerable people, then there is some hope of cutting down on the numbers again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/safety-bubbles-5234909-Oct2020/

NcdJd · 16-10-2020 09:31AM

Albert Johnson wrote: »

An elderly man from my own locality is in a similar situation in a local town. He's a bachelor so see's no one only passers by outside and the local supermarket delivery driver. This man was a very sociable individual and a great man to attend marts, festivals ect and was never off the road. He sold his farm a few years back and bought a nice house in town to spend his final few years in comfort. It's ironic that it's become almost a prison to him as he is afraid to venture outside and has less freedom than when he lived in the countryside.

I don't know how he's managed to maintain any sort of sanity having been under house arrest since March and there's still no end in sight. He spends the day reading or watching TV. I think he's lost the courage by now to venture outside and I'm afraid he'll be stuck indoors for whatever length he remains above the ground. It's his own decision of course but that's simply existing and not living imo. I'll be shot down for this but I'm convinced he was better to have died in March. It's hard to believe that so called expert's believe that the above constitutes "living" for the vulnerable minorities for quite possibly years to come.

Heartbreaking story. As DB said people need to make a bit of an effort to check in on anyone living alone during these times. Even a regular phone call to keep people like that connected in some way with the rest of us. There's one man i ring every so often to see how he is. He's probably fed up with me ringing him but I'll try and give him a bit of local gossip or news to lighten things up.

Albert Johnson · 16-10-2020 10:40AM

DBK1 wrote: »

Hi Albert,

While I don’t doubt that this type of scenario is happening around the country is this an actual story or just hearsay? I think this is the third place I’ve read that exact story. See link to a Journal article below and that story almost word for word is in the comments section.

Would the neighbours or passers by that used to stop to chat this man not make the effort to still stop and just talk to him through the window or while he is standing in his doorway and make sure they are 2 plus metres away from him?

Unfortunately with the amount of people that won’t just follow simple guidelines there is no choice but to shut things down further. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no saint and I’m definitely guilty of not sticking rigidly to the guidelines but I think if everyone just does their best and even does 80 or 90% of what’s being asked, especially around more vulnerable people, then there is some hope of cutting down on the numbers again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/safety-bubbles-5234909-Oct2020/

It's an actual true story that I have no doubt is repeated up and down the country. I only know of the details as the man in question was a good neighbor who maintained contact after his move to town. Of course we ring each other although I'll admit I probably don't check in on him as often as I should.

As to whether he has much communication with his new neighbors in town I'm not so sure although I suspect he's become increasingly withdrawn over the last few months. He's a different man to talk to in recent times. Maybe I'm over thinking it all but I do believe that his demeanor has changed for the worst since Covid. Before this he was always doing something or going somewhere. I find it hard to believe that being stuck inside a small town house is the sort of retirement he'd have wished for. Yes I'm aware it's his own decision but I'm convinced he is stuck at this stage and has less confidence of leaving with each passing day. I'm not aiming for sensationalism but just to point out that you can become a victim of the cure as well as the disease.

endainoz · 16-10-2020 11:32AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We have taken maybe a million years of life from the whole population so far due to restrictions (surviving under restrictions isn't living)
Say 10,000 people die if left unchecked, average age 75 (both are very pessimistic figures). Loss of 100,000 years of life.

Which is better? Consider also there's a long road of restrictions ahead of us, so the amount of life taken from the whole population will only grow whilst it's impossible to quantify deaths from loneliness/depression

Those are numbers being picked out the sky to be honest, impossible to quantify really. There no doubt will be countless studies on this subject in the years to come about the long term effects and how the youth will be ruined from missing six months of school.

But I don't think now is the time for that, it's all well and good being able to live but that will come at a cost. The hospitals are, unfortunately filling up quite quickly, as are the icu beds. There will also no doubt be questions raised had the level 5 suggestion been listened to, would things be in a better position than we are in now? Again impossible to say.

The latest restrictions will no doubt cause protests that will ironically prolong things even more and help nothing while we edge closer to a scenario of having to make a choice whether a person lives or dies based on equipment available.

wrangler · 16-10-2020 12:34PM

NEPHAT threatening level 5 for six weeks, feck.
TBF hospitals will be packed soon if something radical isn't done

16-10-2020 12:40PM

wrangler wrote: »

NEPHAT threatening level 5 for six weeks, feck.
TBF hospitals will be packed soon if something radical isn't done

I don't see the situation changing until an effective vaccine is arrived at. Some people, including in government, are too dim, entitled, and plain selfish to do what's needed to curb it's spread.

Water John · 16-10-2020 12:58PM

The local radio station in Cork went through the weekly figures for each area in the County. almost all had doubled and some trebled in one week.

An EUA for the first vaccine, Pfizer, is going to be sought on the third week of November in the US. That is a target to aim for. Everyone should be vaccinated by late 2021, early 2022 if some of these work. How long the immunity may last is a different question. At worst it would mean repeat every six months.
Preserve all life until then should be the aim. May not fully achieve that but make the effort.

greenfield21 · 16-10-2020 01:09PM

Needed more cases over summer months, would have way less transmission now, chance of reinfection is so low. we are now in a far worse position. Only delaying the inevitable considering getting cases to zero was impossible in this country.

Water John · 16-10-2020 01:12PM

greenfield21 wrote: »

Needed more cases over summer months, would have way less transmission now, chance of reinfection is so low. we are now in a far worse position. Only delaying the inevitable considering getting cases to zero was impossible in this country.

No scientific basis for that. The US has had high figures all summer and are now going much higher.

greenfield21 · 16-10-2020 01:17PM

Water John wrote: »

No scientific basis for that. The US has had high figures all summer and are now going much higher.

Yeah there is

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/health/coronavirus-reinfection.html#click=https://t.co/RrwFOOKeOE

Water John · 16-10-2020 01:21PM

Considering only a small % of the pop has got it in any country yet, the herd immunity isn't a runner. Will only become a possibility with a vaccine. A high % of the people taking it and the vaccine itself having a high effectiveness.

Western Pomise · 16-10-2020 01:32PM

Would Marts close at level 4 or at level 5?

whelan2 · 16-10-2020 01:34PM

Western Pomise wrote: »

Would Marts close at level 4 or at level 5?

Must be level 5.

tanko · 16-10-2020 01:38PM

Would marts close completely at level 5, even online selling?

whelan2 · 16-10-2020 01:43PM

Was on farm news on lmfm there the restrictions in place in marts at level 4. They must submit a plan to dvo prior to operating.

endainoz · 16-10-2020 01:49PM

The marts would nearly get a exemption for a couple of weeks to get the bulk of the selling that's left to do over. Calves being weaned all over the country, they would need to be catered for.

whelan2 · 16-10-2020 01:51PM

When will the government be making an announcement about restrictions?

16-10-2020 01:53PM

endainoz wrote: »

The marts would nearly get a exemption for a couple of weeks to get the bulk of the selling that's left to do over. Calves being weaned all over the country, they would need to be catered for.

Hope so, I have ram lambs to clear out yet. Don't mind being caught with ewe lambs or cull ewes even.

16-10-2020 01:54PM

whelan2 wrote: »

When will the government be making an announcement about restrictions?

Has Leo leaked anything yet?

whelan2 · 16-10-2020 01:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Has Leo leaked anything yet?

A few replies came into my head there, none of them printable

White Clover · 16-10-2020 01:58PM

tanko wrote: »

Would marts close completely at level 5, even online selling?

Doubt it. Farming is an essential service. Of course strict protocol will have to be adhered to.

gozunda · 16-10-2020 02:00PM

greenfield21 wrote: »

Something like 5 people have been known to be reinfected with covid. So herd immunity is possible. Would you agree. interesting to see hotspots moving to new areas now aswell. Will places that have locked down now fare worse over coming winter assuming we face lockdown fatigue.

How did you come to that conclusion?

emaherx · 16-10-2020 02:00PM

wrangler wrote: »

NEPHAT threatening level 5 for six weeks, feck.
TBF hospitals will be packed soon if something radical isn't done

They don't get to threaten anything. Level 5 has been their recommendation for the past few weeks. Would seem government may not even discuss the recommendation till next week.

endainoz · 16-10-2020 03:03PM

emaherx wrote: »

They don't get to threaten anything. Level 5 has been their recommendation for the past few weeks. Would seem government may not even discuss the recommendation till next week.

Taoiseach says 'good consideration' will be given to NPHET's Level 5 advice as leaders set to meet tomorrow https://jrnl.ie/5235126

Apparently they will discuss it tomorrow.....

I'd say they'll try to meet half way and put the country on level four for a while before the inevitable level 5 for the whole country, making it very tight to give retail a chance to operate for their busiest time of year. The funny thing is that if they listened to the advice from two weeks ago we would have data by now to see if it had worked or not. But they seem to like dragging out the suffering.

Water John · 16-10-2020 03:16PM

endainoz wrote: »

Taoiseach says 'good consideration' will be given to NPHET's Level 5 advice as leaders set to meet tomorrow https://jrnl.ie/5235126

Apparently they will discuss it tomorrow.....

I'd say they'll try to meet half way and put the country on level four for a while before the inevitable level 5 for the whole country, making it very tight to give retail a chance to operate for their busiest time of year. The funny thing is that if they listened to the advice from two weeks ago we would have data by now to see if it had worked or not. But they seem to like dragging out the suffering.

the groundwork hadn't been done to go to Level 5 in terms of bringing the people with them. It would have been a disastrous failure.

Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

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