Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

Neddyusa

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I don't know if its about blame, so much as it is people not sticking to the communicated rules...
We have rules to limit the spread, and everyone should stick to them. Sure, the virus is highly transmissible, and it might spread even though people are trying their best.
But, if people aren't, and they are all packed together into a small space for hours - they should be called out on it.



Its a hard one to implement in reality I think...
I believe its accepted that one vulnerable cohort are people aged over 70?
Lets say everyone under 70 mixes away as normal - sports, pub, etc. Who then interacts with the 70+ people?
Should all children & grandchildren stay away from them? Where do you draw the line?

I guess the big question is - are we happy to let the majority live carefree, unimpacted lives - knowing that a certain 'vulnerable' minority could pay heavily for it?

The problem right now for the vast majority of individuals and businesses is that the cure is worse than the disease.

As for the vulnerable - they know who they are now and as adults should have the freedom to choose whether to cocoon (as correctly advised) or not.

The health of many fit and active over 70s, is now suffering from the social isolation, as well as having routine medical checks and procedures postponed.

I spoke to a man in his late 70s yesterday who was in tears on the phone.
He hadnt been outside the gate of the farm since March.
He is relatively healthy but living in fear.
He was a very social and outgoing man. His weekly outings were to the mart or shops in town during the week and to mass and a football match at the weekend.
He now sees no-one except his wife and the daughter who drops the shopping at the door.
He only sees his grandchildren on the phone.
How is it right for a (previously sociable and outgoing man) who has only a short few years left - to spend them in fearful isolation like this?

wrangler

Neddyusa wrote: »

The problem right now for the vast majority of individuals and businesses is that the cure is worse than the disease.

As for the vulnerable - they know who they are now and as adults should have the freedom to choose whether to cocoon (as correctly advised) or not.

The health of many fit and active over 70s, is now suffering from the social isolation, as well as having routine medical checks and procedures postponed.

I spoke to a man in his late 70s yesterday who was in tears on the phone.
He hadnt been outside the gate of the farm since March.
He is relatively healthy but living in fear.
He was a very social and outgoing man. His weekly outings were to the mart or shops in town during the week and to mass and a football match at the weekend.
He now sees no-one except his wife and the daughter who drops the shopping at the door.
He only sees his grandchildren on the phone.
How is it right for a (previously sociable and outgoing man) who has only a short few years left - to spend them in fearful isolation like this?

I don't think I'd be as extreme as that. I use plenty of sanitiser and wear the mask while I'm out, It's all you can do and then know If you get it you've done your best. I'd rather die of Covid than loneliness, Quality of llife has taken enough of a hit without trying to be a martyr

Say my name

wrangler wrote: »

I don't think I'd be as extreme as that. I use plenty of sanitiser and wear the mask while I'm out, It's all you can do and then know If you get it you've done your best. I'd rather die of Covid than loneliness, Quality of llife has taken enough of a hit without trying to be a martyr

This has been a shocking time for people dying without the Covid.

My sister tells of a woman in tears at the entrance to Waterford hospital pleading with security staff to let her visit her dying husband and being told to go home.

This episode won't be forgotten lightly and no sign of an end in sight.

Albert Johnson

Neddyusa wrote: »

The problem right now for the vast majority of individuals and businesses is that the cure is worse than the disease.

As for the vulnerable - they know who they are now and as adults should have the freedom to choose whether to cocoon (as correctly advised) or not.

The health of many fit and active over 70s, is now suffering from the social isolation, as well as having routine medical checks and procedures postponed.

I spoke to a man in his late 70s yesterday who was in tears on the phone.
He hadnt been outside the gate of the farm since March.
He is relatively healthy but living in fear.
He was a very social and outgoing man. His weekly outings were to the mart or shops in town during the week and to mass and a football match at the weekend.
He now sees no-one except his wife and the daughter who drops the shopping at the door.
He only sees his grandchildren on the phone.
How is it right for a (previously sociable and outgoing man) who has only a short few years left - to spend them in fearful isolation like this?

An elderly man from my own locality is in a similar situation in a local town. He's a bachelor so see's no one only passers by outside and the local supermarket delivery driver. This man was a very sociable individual and a great man to attend marts, festivals ect and was never off the road. He sold his farm a few years back and bought a nice house in town to spend his final few years in comfort. It's ironic that it's become almost a prison to him as he is afraid to venture outside and has less freedom than when he lived in the countryside.

I don't know how he's managed to maintain any sort of sanity having been under house arrest since March and there's still no end in sight. He spends the day reading or watching TV. I think he's lost the courage by now to venture outside and I'm afraid he'll be stuck indoors for whatever length he remains above the ground. It's his own decision of course but that's simply existing and not living imo. I'll be shot down for this but I'm convinced he was better to have died in March. It's hard to believe that so called expert's believe that the above constitutes "living" for the vulnerable minorities for quite possibly years to come.

yosemitesam1

Albert Johnson wrote: »

An elderly man from my own locality is in a similar situation in a local town. He's a bachelor so see's no one only passers by outside and the local supermarket delivery driver. This man was a very sociable individual and a great man to attend marts, festivals ect and was never off the road. He sold his farm a few years back and bought a nice house in town to spend his final few years in comfort. It's ironic that it's become almost a prison to him as he is afraid to venture outside and has less freedom than when he lived in the countryside.

I don't know how he's managed to maintain any sort of sanity having been under house arrest since March and there's still no end in sight. He spends the day reading or watching TV. I think he's lost the courage by now to venture outside and I'm afraid he'll be stuck indoors for whatever length he remains above the ground. It's his own decision of course but that's simply existing and not living imo. I'll be shot down for this but I'm convinced he was better to have died in March. It's hard to believe that so called expert's believe that the above constitutes "living" for the vulnerable minorities for quite possibly years to come.

I think the way things are gone, many more years of life will have been lost than saved across both old and young

odyssey06

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I think the way things are gone, many more years of life will have been lost than saved across both old and young

Completely disagree.

If we let this run wild... we will have many young people facing a lifetime of long covid - chronic fatigue.

If ICU capacity is breached we will have people dying who could have been saved... the demographic with highest ICU admission is 55-64.

If surge ICU capacity is activated it will mean the cancellation of many other mon covid operations and procedures.

We need to keep a lid on this. The stakes are not just 80+ year olds in nursing homes.

Water John

As it stands now a figure od around 100 in ICU by the end of this month. No one thinks we can eradicate the virus but we have to limit its spread.
In fairness for much of the time since March we have not been asked to isolate. The guidance has been keep your distance, wear a mask. See plenty people holding good chats with friends using these two. The distance apart is only 6 feet.

greysides

Aerosol transmission, the under-estimated mode.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1015/1171654-airborne-transmission-spread-covid-19-winter-indoors/

greysides

Evidence of the effectiveness of cloth masks in protecting others and protecting yourself.

https://theconversation.com/covid-19-masks-faqs-how-can-cloth-stop-a-tiny-virus-whats-the-best-fabric-do-they-protect-the-wearer-146822

greenfield21

Something like 5 people have been known to be reinfected with covid. So herd immunity is possible. Would you agree. interesting to see hotspots moving to new areas now aswell. Will places that have locked down now fare worse over coming winter assuming we face lockdown fatigue.

yosemitesam1

odyssey06 wrote: »

Completely disagree.

If we let this run wild... we will have many young people facing a lifetime of long covid - chronic fatigue.

If ICU capacity is breached we will have people dying who could have been saved... the demographic with highest ICU admission is 55-64.

If surge ICU capacity is activated it will mean the cancellation of many other mon covid operations and procedures.

We need to keep a lid on this. The stakes are not just 80+ year olds in nursing homes.

We have taken maybe a million years of life from the whole population so far due to restrictions (surviving under restrictions isn't living)
Say 10,000 people die if left unchecked, average age 75 (both are very pessimistic figures). Loss of 100,000 years of life.

Which is better? Consider also there's a long road of restrictions ahead of us, so the amount of life taken from the whole population will only grow whilst it's impossible to quantify deaths from loneliness/depression

odyssey06

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We have taken maybe a million years of life from the whole population so far due to restrictions (surviving under restrictions isn't living)

You're directly equating actual death and serious illness and hospitalisation 'life years' lost with 'living under restrictions'. Null and void argument.
Nobody is denying restrictions are easy, but your argument jumped the shark there. Morale is down, optimism is down, some people are struggling, but it's not the same struggle as someone in ICU, or someone who isn't coming back.
What about the loneliness of people who lose parents, spouses to this pandemic?

yosemitesam1

odyssey06 wrote: »

You're directly equating actual death and serious illness and hospitalisation 'life years' lost with 'living under restrictions'. Null and void argument.
Nobody is denying restrictions are easy, but your argument jumped the shark there.

There's a big difference between living and surviving. I know which I'd rather even if it means that I might die younger

odyssey06

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There's a big difference between living and surviving. I know which I'd rather even if it means that I might die younger

I agree, but there's a vast chasm between dying and surviving. You can survive for X period and return to living. You can't cross that chasm.

Neddyusa

odyssey06 wrote: »

I agree, but there's a vast chasm between dying and surviving. You can survive for X period and return to living. You can't cross that chasm.

That's the problem - the civil servants making the restrictions have absolutely no aim or plan for the return to living bit.

DBK1

Albert Johnson wrote: »

An elderly man from my own locality is in a similar situation in a local town. He's a bachelor so see's no one only passers by outside and the local supermarket delivery driver. This man was a very sociable individual and a great man to attend marts, festivals ect and was never off the road. He sold his farm a few years back and bought a nice house in town to spend his final few years in comfort. It's ironic that it's become almost a prison to him as he is afraid to venture outside and has less freedom than when he lived in the countryside.

I don't know how he's managed to maintain any sort of sanity having been under house arrest since March and there's still no end in sight. He spends the day reading or watching TV. I think he's lost the courage by now to venture outside and I'm afraid he'll be stuck indoors for whatever length he remains above the ground. It's his own decision of course but that's simply existing and not living imo. I'll be shot down for this but I'm convinced he was better to have died in March. It's hard to believe that so called expert's believe that the above constitutes "living" for the vulnerable minorities for quite possibly years to come.

Hi Albert,

While I don’t doubt that this type of scenario is happening around the country is this an actual story or just hearsay? I think this is the third place I’ve read that exact story. See link to a Journal article below and that story almost word for word is in the comments section.

Would the neighbours or passers by that used to stop to chat this man not make the effort to still stop and just talk to him through the window or while he is standing in his doorway and make sure they are 2 plus metres away from him?

Unfortunately with the amount of people that won’t just follow simple guidelines there is no choice but to shut things down further. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no saint and I’m definitely guilty of not sticking rigidly to the guidelines but I think if everyone just does their best and even does 80 or 90% of what’s being asked, especially around more vulnerable people, then there is some hope of cutting down on the numbers again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/safety-bubbles-5234909-Oct2020/

NcdJd

Albert Johnson wrote: »

An elderly man from my own locality is in a similar situation in a local town. He's a bachelor so see's no one only passers by outside and the local supermarket delivery driver. This man was a very sociable individual and a great man to attend marts, festivals ect and was never off the road. He sold his farm a few years back and bought a nice house in town to spend his final few years in comfort. It's ironic that it's become almost a prison to him as he is afraid to venture outside and has less freedom than when he lived in the countryside.

I don't know how he's managed to maintain any sort of sanity having been under house arrest since March and there's still no end in sight. He spends the day reading or watching TV. I think he's lost the courage by now to venture outside and I'm afraid he'll be stuck indoors for whatever length he remains above the ground. It's his own decision of course but that's simply existing and not living imo. I'll be shot down for this but I'm convinced he was better to have died in March. It's hard to believe that so called expert's believe that the above constitutes "living" for the vulnerable minorities for quite possibly years to come.

Heartbreaking story. As DB said people need to make a bit of an effort to check in on anyone living alone during these times. Even a regular phone call to keep people like that connected in some way with the rest of us. There's one man i ring every so often to see how he is. He's probably fed up with me ringing him but I'll try and give him a bit of local gossip or news to lighten things up.

Albert Johnson

DBK1 wrote: »

Hi Albert,

While I don’t doubt that this type of scenario is happening around the country is this an actual story or just hearsay? I think this is the third place I’ve read that exact story. See link to a Journal article below and that story almost word for word is in the comments section.

Would the neighbours or passers by that used to stop to chat this man not make the effort to still stop and just talk to him through the window or while he is standing in his doorway and make sure they are 2 plus metres away from him?

Unfortunately with the amount of people that won’t just follow simple guidelines there is no choice but to shut things down further. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no saint and I’m definitely guilty of not sticking rigidly to the guidelines but I think if everyone just does their best and even does 80 or 90% of what’s being asked, especially around more vulnerable people, then there is some hope of cutting down on the numbers again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/safety-bubbles-5234909-Oct2020/

It's an actual true story that I have no doubt is repeated up and down the country. I only know of the details as the man in question was a good neighbor who maintained contact after his move to town. Of course we ring each other although I'll admit I probably don't check in on him as often as I should.

As to whether he has much communication with his new neighbors in town I'm not so sure although I suspect he's become increasingly withdrawn over the last few months. He's a different man to talk to in recent times. Maybe I'm over thinking it all but I do believe that his demeanor has changed for the worst since Covid. Before this he was always doing something or going somewhere. I find it hard to believe that being stuck inside a small town house is the sort of retirement he'd have wished for. Yes I'm aware it's his own decision but I'm convinced he is stuck at this stage and has less confidence of leaving with each passing day. I'm not aiming for sensationalism but just to point out that you can become a victim of the cure as well as the disease.

endainoz

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We have taken maybe a million years of life from the whole population so far due to restrictions (surviving under restrictions isn't living)
Say 10,000 people die if left unchecked, average age 75 (both are very pessimistic figures). Loss of 100,000 years of life.

Which is better? Consider also there's a long road of restrictions ahead of us, so the amount of life taken from the whole population will only grow whilst it's impossible to quantify deaths from loneliness/depression

Those are numbers being picked out the sky to be honest, impossible to quantify really. There no doubt will be countless studies on this subject in the years to come about the long term effects and how the youth will be ruined from missing six months of school.

But I don't think now is the time for that, it's all well and good being able to live but that will come at a cost. The hospitals are, unfortunately filling up quite quickly, as are the icu beds. There will also no doubt be questions raised had the level 5 suggestion been listened to, would things be in a better position than we are in now? Again impossible to say.

The latest restrictions will no doubt cause protests that will ironically prolong things even more and help nothing while we edge closer to a scenario of having to make a choice whether a person lives or dies based on equipment available.

wrangler

NEPHAT threatening level 5 for six weeks, feck.
TBF hospitals will be packed soon if something radical isn't done

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

NEPHAT threatening level 5 for six weeks, feck.
TBF hospitals will be packed soon if something radical isn't done

I don't see the situation changing until an effective vaccine is arrived at. Some people, including in government, are too dim, entitled, and plain selfish to do what's needed to curb it's spread.

Water John

The local radio station in Cork went through the weekly figures for each area in the County. almost all had doubled and some trebled in one week.

An EUA for the first vaccine, Pfizer, is going to be sought on the third week of November in the US. That is a target to aim for. Everyone should be vaccinated by late 2021, early 2022 if some of these work. How long the immunity may last is a different question. At worst it would mean repeat every six months.
Preserve all life until then should be the aim. May not fully achieve that but make the effort.

greenfield21

Needed more cases over summer months, would have way less transmission now, chance of reinfection is so low. we are now in a far worse position. Only delaying the inevitable considering getting cases to zero was impossible in this country.

Water John

greenfield21 wrote: »

Needed more cases over summer months, would have way less transmission now, chance of reinfection is so low. we are now in a far worse position. Only delaying the inevitable considering getting cases to zero was impossible in this country.

No scientific basis for that. The US has had high figures all summer and are now going much higher.

greenfield21

Water John wrote: »

No scientific basis for that. The US has had high figures all summer and are now going much higher.

Yeah there is

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/health/coronavirus-reinfection.html#click=https://t.co/RrwFOOKeOE

Water John

Considering only a small % of the pop has got it in any country yet, the herd immunity isn't a runner. Will only become a possibility with a vaccine. A high % of the people taking it and the vaccine itself having a high effectiveness.

Western Pomise

Would Marts close at level 4 or at level 5?

whelan2

Western Pomise wrote: »

Would Marts close at level 4 or at level 5?

Must be level 5.

tanko

Would marts close completely at level 5, even online selling?

whelan2

Was on farm news on lmfm there the restrictions in place in marts at level 4. They must submit a plan to dvo prior to operating.