Amazed by people buying new oil burners right now

10-10-2020 3:53pm

400kms without stopping is rare I reckon. I'd do Dublin to Cork regularly and wouldn't stop as its under 3 hours... 250kms.

I'd drive Dublin to Donegal regularly also which is only slightly further in kms but an extra hour.... 90% of the time I'd stop for a coffee.

If I was doing Cork to Belfast I'd likely stop at Newlands Cross if I didn't want to lose time by doing an actual Dublin stop.

Anything over 3 hours and a stop is hugely beneficial ignoring the cars needs for a recharge or refill.

10-10-2020 3:57pm

Lumen wrote: »

Round where I live the Leaf is the geriatric weapon of choice.

My Dad went is300h a year or so ago. None of his peers have an EV but most of them drive.
He went the Lexus route as a diesel didn't suit and 40+ mpg with low tax in a nice car suited his wants. He bought second hand so no EV would have been got for what he was spending

RandomViewer · 10-10-2020 9:39pm

Lumen wrote: »

Round where I live the Leaf is the geriatric weapon of choice.

Retired teachers with nylon trousers ,shiny shoes and skin impregnated with nicotine ,usually unmarried or childless,

tom1ie · 10-10-2020 10:23pm

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Are those 400km trips high speed motorway runs? It's still hard to beat diesel there without Supercharger or Ionity network.

I'm up to 30k (eNiro) with no driving during April and May. It's very easy with 60+ kWh battery cars. The 400km runs will only need one charge if your doing motorway speeds. Cost will come down as more VW and other makes hit the market next year.

Yeah pretty much all motorway. No destination charging though.
House charging would be an option if I went ev.

krissovo · 11-10-2020 9:24am

Lumen wrote: »

Round where I live the Leaf is the geriatric weapon of choice.

Where I live in a smallish village there are about 8 of the older leaf’s mostly driven by young enough families who would not have much disposable income. Two years ago there was only 1 2015 leaf bought by a guy with his redundancy money from being laid off in a local factory. He is a popular lad at the GAA club and his enthusiasm for it has rubbed off on the village as we have so many EV’s now.

BTW - I have never seen anyone over 45 driving a leaf.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 11-10-2020 9:37am

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah pretty much all motorway. No destination charging though.
House charging would be an option if I went ev.

The efficient makes would suit motorway driving and competition is ramping up. At least it's a viable alternative now to buying a new ICE.

celtic_oz · 11-10-2020 10:07am

krissovo wrote: »

Where I live in a smallish village there are about 8 of the older leaf’s mostly driven by young enough families who would not have much disposable income. Two years ago there was only 1 2015 leaf bought by a guy with his redundancy money from being laid off in a local factory. He is a popular lad at the GAA club and his enthusiasm for it has rubbed off on the village as we have so many EV’s now.

BTW - I have never seen anyone over 45 driving a leaf.

If I had to buy an EV on a low budget I'd buy one of these over the old leaf every day. Seems to be plenty around

tom1ie · 11-10-2020 10:24am

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

The efficient makes would suit motorway driving and competition is ramping up. At least it's a viable alternative now to buying a new ICE.

That’s the thing I couldn’t afford to buy a new ice either.
I’ll just hang on to the old motor and keep it serviced regularly.

eagerv · 11-10-2020 4:39pm

Lumen wrote: »

Round where I live the Leaf is the geriatric weapon of choice.

Yea it's easy to stereotype the EVs and their drivers..

In my area (Rural) we still don't see too many EVs, but older Leafs seem to be driven by mainly younger people, in some cases a second car. Newer Leafs almost all female, a few I know of are teachers. Tesla M3 drivers nerdy types and probably tech workers..And Ioniq drivers are usually sensible, careful people of all ages..:)

But BMW i3 drivers all appear to be over 80! Perhaps Mad_Lad isn't a lad anymore..:D

11-10-2020 6:52pm

eagerv wrote: »

But BMW i3 drivers all appear to be over 80! Perhaps Mad_Lad isn't a lad anymore..:D

I turn 80 in January.

ELM327 · 12-10-2020 12:20pm

eagerv wrote: »

Yea it's easy to stereotype the EVs and their drivers..

In my area (Rural) we still don't see too many EVs, but older Leafs seem to be driven by mainly younger people, in some cases a second car. Newer Leafs almost all female, a few I know of are teachers. Tesla M3 drivers nerdy types and probably tech workers..And Ioniq drivers are usually sensible, careful people of all ages..:)

But BMW i3 drivers all appear to be over 80! Perhaps Mad_Lad isn't a lad anymore..:D

So I'm a younger person, nerdy type, tech worker and a sensible person of all ages (I went from an L24 to an Ioniq28 to a Model S Tesla.)

Lumen · 12-10-2020 12:23pm

eagerv wrote: »

But BMW i3 drivers all appear to be over 80!

It's all about the younger role models. Larry David is only 73. :pac:

BMW-i3-Car-Driven-by-Larry-David-in-Curb-Your-Enthusiasm-Season-10-Episode-3-Artificial-Fruit-4.jpg

BMW-i3-Car-Driven-by-Larry-David-in-Curb-Your-Enthusiasm-Season-10-Episode-3-Artificial-Fruit-4.jpg

Gumbo · 12-10-2020 1:07pm

eagerv wrote: »

Yea it's easy to stereotype the EVs and their drivers..

In my area (Rural) we still don't see too many EVs, but older Leafs seem to be driven by mainly younger people, in some cases a second car. Newer Leafs almost all female, a few I know of are teachers. Tesla M3 drivers nerdy types and probably tech workers..And Ioniq drivers are usually sensible, careful people of all ages..:)

But BMW i3 drivers all appear to be over 80! Perhaps Mad_Lad isn't a lad anymore..:D

I went from Mercedes ML to a Leaf, to an i3 to a Model S

12-10-2020 1:30pm

Gumbo wrote: »

9c a kwh means i fill my car (85*.9=€7.65).
There is no world that is more epensive to run than an ICE, and ive had many cars, most likely more than you if you'd for any reason had followed my motoring career.

Petrol Kona = 21k
Electric Kona = 39k

A petrol Kona holds 50L and the average petrol price in Ireland was 1.25 per litre last year, so you're talking €62.50 for a full tank.......a difference of 55 quid per fill.

That difference of 18k purchase price equates to 327 extra fills, before you begin to be less expensive. That is huge. If you filled it once per week then you're talking 6+ years before the fuel costs outstrip the upfront costs.

At about 6L per 100km (average fuel efficiency) a full tank lasts 830km, which is 120km a day, every day, for those 6 years.

I mean, how long does the average person hold onto a motor before selling her? 270,000km is a lot of mileage before you start to realise the savings (43,000km per year).

All back of the envelope calculations, using averages of course, but that's the sort of elements which should be factored in. If you don't do that kind of mileage, or don't plan on keeping a car for 6 years plus then focusing on fuel costs alone is a bit foolish.

liamog · 12-10-2020 1:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Petrol Kona = 21k
Electric Kona = 39k

A entry level Petrol Kona =/= the entry Electric Kona.
Are you aware that when cars are sold new, they charge more for more powerful motors (performance) and the equipment installed in the car. I'm shocked at how many people on a motoring section of boards seem not to be aware of the get more kit = pay more money.

cnocbui · 12-10-2020 1:37pm

liamog wrote: »

A entry level Petrol Kona =/= the entry Electric Kona.
Are you aware that when cars are sold new, they charge more for more powerful motors (performance) and the equipment installed in the car. I'm shocked at how many people on a motoring section of boards seem not to be aware of the get more kit = pay more money.

Ok, what is the cost difference when you option a petrol Kona so that it is =?

Gumbo · 12-10-2020 1:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Petrol Kona = 21k
Electric Kona = 39k

A petrol Kona holds 50L and the average petrol price in Ireland was 1.25 per litre last year, so you're talking €62.50 for a full tank.......a difference of 55 quid per fill.

That difference of 18k purchase price equates to 327 extra fills, before you begin to be less expensive. That is huge. If you filled it once per week then you're talking 6+ years before the fuel costs outstrip the upfront costs.

At about 6L per 100km (average fuel efficiency) a full tank lasts 830km, which is 120km a day, every day, for those 6 years.

I mean, how long does the average person hold onto a motor before selling her? 270,000km is a lot of mileage before you start to realise the savings (43,000km per year).

All back of the envelope calculations, using averages of course, but that's the sort of elements which should be factored in. If you don't do that kind of mileage, or don't plan on keeping a car for 6 years plus then focusing on fuel costs alone is a bit foolish.

I wouldn’t buy a new car, or a Kona for that matter but I get your point.

Also, I’d try compare the equivalent spec Kona ICE to the EV Kona for a direct comparison.

Cheapest 2020 Kona in the country right now is €23, 450 in Kia Dundrum brand new although pre registered with 7km so some Devaluation there. Looks ok, but Kona not the best in the first place.

I wouldn’t justify brand new either way.

liamog · 12-10-2020 1:47pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Ok, what is the cost difference when you option a petrol Kona so that it is =?

Oh, it's still not great value, personally I think the EV Kona is massively overpriced compared to other options in the market. But at least compare apples to apples.

Lumen · 12-10-2020 1:52pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Ok, what is the cost difference when you option a petrol Kona so that it is =?

There isn't really a comparable version on sale.

There used to be a fast petrol version of the Kona, the "1.6T GDi Blue Drive Premium GT 5dr 4WD DCT" with 177bhp and a dual-clutch transmission that had similar performance and (I guess) drivetrain refinement to the EV. Still not directly comparable as it had 4WD, but on the flipside higher tax and fuel costs.

I don't think it was available in Ireland, presumably due to emissions/VRT but in the UK the EV was about 15% more expensive than that petrol turbo before the grants were rejigged.

The 40k Kona EV has been a great seller so I don't see the argument that it's badly overpriced. If it was overpriced they wouldn't have sold.

12-10-2020 2:03pm

Lumen wrote: »

............

The 40k Kona EV has been a great seller so I don't see the argument that it's badly overpriced. If it was overpriced they wouldn't have sold.

Limited EV options. I know 2 people with a Kona EV, one bought it as he was availing of the 0% BIK thing and the other lad has little to no interest in cars but plenty money. Himself and the wife went car shopping for a petrol Kona but were offered a test drive in the EC and were WOWed by it so pulled the trigger.

It's €8k less then a model 3 iirc, it's fooking woeful value.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 12-10-2020 2:04pm

Lumen wrote: »

There isn't really a comparable version on sale.

There used to be a fast petrol version of the Kona, the "1.6T GDi Blue Drive Premium GT 5dr 4WD DCT" with 177bhp and a dual-clutch transmission that had similar performance and (I guess) drivetrain refinement to the EV. Still not directly comparable as it had 4WD, but on the flipside higher tax and fuel costs.

I don't think it was available in Ireland, presumably due to emissions/VRT but in the UK the EV was about 15% more expensive than that petrol turbo before the grants were rejigged.

I know somebody who has one, bought it here for Kona EV money. I think it was high 30's almost 40 grand. It is the most comparible ICE Kona to the EV for performance and price.

Edit: Hyundai dealer has a 181-KE with 50k km asking €23,995 (1.6T ICE 4WD)

Edit 2: Different Hyundai dealer has a 191-WX with 46.5k km asking €33,975 (EV)

Lumen · 12-10-2020 2:10pm

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

I know somebody who has one, bought it here for Kona EV money. I think it was high 30's almost 40 grand. It is the most comparible ICE Kona to the EV for performance and price.

Oh, it's 191g CO2, which means €1050 a year in motor tax. I have an old car like that sitting on my driveway - it's basically worthless.

A brave purchase!

edit: no I'm wrong, it's 189g, so "only" €630/year.

monkeysnapper · 12-10-2020 2:18pm

I've done the world a favour by buying a diesel car that I hardly do any miles in , I cycle to work most days and just drive it weekends ..... I'd be lucky to do 5000 km a year .

I drive over to uk twice a year on a normal year ...

I just couldn't justify the expense of a electric car , I'd never save any money either doing so .. . So I just bought a cheap 131 Hyundai i40

I'll probably burn in hell ....

graememk · 12-10-2020 2:18pm

Augeo wrote: »

It's €8k less then a model 3 iirc, it's fooking woeful value.

Back to comparing apples with apples, ideally it would be compared with the RWD long range one, but they dont sell that in ireland, only the 4WD LR one, which is 58K .

Also a premium interior, faster charging etc etc.

cnocbui · 12-10-2020 2:23pm

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I've done the world a favour by buying a diesel car that I hardly do any miles in , I cycle to work most days and just drive it weekends ..... I'd be lucky to do 5000 km a year .

I drive over to uk twice a year on a normal year ...

I just couldn't justify the expense of a electric car , I'd never save any money either doing so .. . So I just bought a cheap 131 Hyundai i40

I'll probably burn in hell ....

Doing a favour would have meant buying a petrol ICE, not a diesel.

cruizer101 · 12-10-2020 2:23pm

liamog wrote: »

A entry level Petrol Kona =/= the entry Electric Kona.
Are you aware that when cars are sold new, they charge more for more powerful motors (performance) and the equipment installed in the car. I'm shocked at how many people on a motoring section of boards seem not to be aware of the get more kit = pay more money.

True but it is still a valid comparison when the question being asked is why are people buying petrol cars over electric.
Many people don't care about all the extra spec so for them making the comparison they don't care about the extra kit they want a new car around that size regardless of the spec.
In that case there is a big difference in going electric that just doens't seem worth it.
My own Dad is like that, he would compare the base price for a petrol and the base price for an electric and see the considerable difference.
It may not be a fair comparison but it is valid.

Even if you go up in spec the highest spec kona is 26k (excluding hybrid) add 4k in extra equipment on and there is still a 10k difference. That will still pay for a lot of fuel.

Gumbo · 12-10-2020 2:24pm

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I've done the world a favour by buying a diesel car that I hardly do any miles in , I cycle to work most days and just drive it weekends ..... I'd be lucky to do 5000 km a year .

I drive over to uk twice a year on a normal year ...

I just couldn't justify the expense of a electric car , I'd never save any money either doing so .. . So I just bought a cheap 131 Hyundai i40

I'll probably burn in hell ....

Why will you burn in hell?
You bought the car that suits you????

garo · 12-10-2020 2:24pm

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I've done the world a favour by buying a diesel car that I hardly do any miles in , I cycle to work most days and just drive it weekends ..... I'd be lucky to do 5000 km a year .

I drive over to uk twice a year on a normal year ...

I just couldn't justify the expense of a electric car , I'd never save any money either doing so .. . So I just bought a cheap 131 Hyundai i40

I'll probably burn in hell ....

You'll be grand! I was in the same place as you. We had a 2003 petrol and a 2008 diesel in our family and we both cycled to work so together put 12k on the two cars annually combined. I still went EV when the 2003 became a pain. Hopefully, when the time comes to give up the 131 you will go EV because they will be cheaper than the equivalent ICE even for low mileage.

12-10-2020 2:26pm

graememk wrote: »

Back to comparing apples with apples, ideally it would be compared with the RWD long range one, but they dont sell that in ireland, only the 4WD LR one, which is 58K .

Also a premium interior, faster charging etc etc.

An e208 isn't a bad comparison ............ the Kona is way more expensive.

Ubbquittious · 12-10-2020 2:29pm

I'd buy a turf powered car if I could

Amazed by people buying new oil burners right now

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