How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

irishblessing · 24-09-2020 11:20AM

markodaly wrote: »

Agree, but why do other teachers on here let comments like this slide?

Do you think these comments put teachers in the best possible light?

The negative light is on you, as that teacher has a point. Just up from this last post of yours you referred to them as "moaning teachers" and basically mocking them for needing to be safe. They have families too, you know. Many of them are someones Mam or dad. Shameful comment.

Loafing Oaf · 24-09-2020 11:28AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Eh, the virus running rampant?

Would this be likely if virtually everything else is locked down?

JDD · 24-09-2020 11:35AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Eh, the virus running rampant? Who educates them then when they're quarantining at home over and over again? :rolleyes:

What I think will happen is that the whole country will go to Level 3 in 1-2 weeks time. Dublin will stay at Level 3 for a further two weeks, bringing us to 19 October.

It will not reduce the R number below 1, and while the increase will slow, it will continue to increase, with all the knock on effects on hospitalisations and ICU admissions (really, whoever is just infected today will be the person admitted to the ICU in mid October). Then we MAY also be dealing with the start of the flu infections, though I think that is unlikely with a higher uptake on the vaccination this year.

I suspect there will be a Level 4 for Dublin for 3-4 weeks from mid October to mid November. This will work to reduce the R number under 1. Infections will decrease. This will protect the healthcare system somewhat. But also, and just as importantly, it means we can go back down to Level 2 at the start of December. The shops will have Christmas shoppers. We can go ahead and have granny and grandad over on Christmas Day.

No government wants to be the government who cancels Christmas, no matter what NPHET are advising them.

Level 2 restrictions will put us back where we are now, and January will be a very tough month for the hospitals. I can see us going back to Level 4 in February.

Hopefully, by March there will be solid news on the vaccine. And light at the end of the tunnel.

At no point in the above do I see schools closing. The only thing that *might* happen, if the Level 4 restrictions don't act as the circuit breaker, is schools closing two weeks before Christmas. The government could ask anyone who wants to invite relatives for Christmas dinner to restrict their movements as much as possible over those two weeks.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 11:39AM

josip wrote: »

I think so, but that will depend more on for how long teachers are willing to accept their increased risk of exposure compared to most other workplaces.
ary.

Or how long the govt refuse their demands for extra money.

Asti gen sec on tv last night saying money was part of their demands.

No bother exploiting a world pandemic to screw more money.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 11:45AM

Blondini wrote: »

About 200

200 what?

Schools?

Students?

Outbreaks?

Cases?

wirelessdude01 · 24-09-2020 11:45AM

Will Yam wrote: »

Asti gen sec on tv last night saying money was part of their demands.

What show was that so I can go have a watch of it?

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 11:49AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What show was that so I can go have a watch of it?

Matt Cooper, virgin media. Last segment.

I have to say the Asti guy came across very reasonably. And he was greatly assisted by some hysterical nonentity of a journalist who generated sympathy for even the most strident teachers with her wild inanities.

wirelessdude01 · 24-09-2020 11:50AM

Will Yam wrote: »

Matt Cooper, virgin media. Last segment.

I have to say the Asti guy came across very reasonably. And he was greatly assisted by some hysterical nonentity of a journalist who generated sympathy for even the most strident teachers with her wild inanities.

Will go find it on the player.

markodaly · 24-09-2020 11:52AM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Do people think schools will still be open by end of October?

Yes and Yes.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 11:52AM

Blondini wrote: »

Never once have I called parents lazy.

Yes, I ridicule teacher bashing; parents, never.

So no parents ever question teachers?

After all, in your book even the mildest querying of teachers is teacher bashing.

markodaly · 24-09-2020 11:53AM

Blondini wrote: »

Never once have I called parents lazy.

Yes, I ridicule teacher bashing; parents, never.

Apologies, I was thinking of another poster.

markodaly · 24-09-2020 12:02PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds always will be. Teachers and schools will do their best but also these are not normal times.

So **** it. Close the schools, let them regress and you can shrug your shoulders and say, "We did our 'best'..." and let society pick up the tab.

Dare I say you may be in the wrong vocation.

It's not just people from disadvantaged backgrounds, ordinary people are crying out about this. Only heard yesterday on the way to collect my kids from school about a lady who had a high risk birth and has to keep her other children home without an education from their school.

There will always be edge cases, but we shouldn't close down the entire eduction system due to some edge cases that can be handled sperately.
I presume you are in favour of closing all schools again ASAP, irrespective of the damage that may cause?

Data can agree with you, but that is data in NORMAL times, and we are NOT in normal times

Kinda shocking you can come out with this. The Data that is emerging is from these Covid-19 times, not normal times.
There is clear divide, like in the economy on the impact of Covid-19 on children from more disadvantaged backgrounds.

Remote hybrid learning is FAR better than no learning and with the times that are in it, we should have it.

What is best are classrooms and schools staying open.

It's a DISGRACE we do not have a national remote learning plan. A DISGRACE.

I agree, best lobby your Union about it as they have said nothing about it EVER until now!!

Boggles · 24-09-2020 12:16PM

markodaly wrote: »

I agree, best lobby your Union about it as they have said nothing about it EVER until now!!

Why are you assuming everyone that posts on here is a teacher?

Blondini · 24-09-2020 12:27PM

Will Yam wrote: »

200 what?

Schools?

Students?

Outbreaks?

Cases?

Read the specific question that that post answered.

And Wilbert, give up trying to catch me out, because you never will.

It's boring. Stay on topic.

irishblessing · 24-09-2020 12:38PM

markodaly wrote: »

So **** it. Close the schools, let them regress and you can shrug your shoulders and say, "We did our 'best'..." and let society pick up the tab.

Dare I say you may be in the wrong vocation.

There will always be edge cases, but we shouldn't close down the entire eduction system due to some edge cases that can be handled sperately.
I presume you are in favour of closing all schools again ASAP, irrespective of the damage that may cause?

Kinda shocking you can come out with this. The Data that is emerging is from these Covid-19 times, not normal times.
There is clear divide, like in the economy on the impact of Covid-19 on children from more disadvantaged backgrounds.

What is best are classrooms and schools staying open.

I agree, best lobby your Union about it as they have said nothing about it EVER until now!!

No one is regressing due to schools closing. Hybrid. Remote. Learning. Properly funded education and support. Did you have a lobotomy or what is the story. I don't have a union to lobby. I honestly am not bothering with your posts anymore, not possible to have an intelligent discussion.

teachinggal123 · 24-09-2020 12:42PM

irishblessing wrote: »

It's a DISGRACE we do not have a national remote learning plan. A DISGRACE.

Yes it is a total disgrace. And could have been avoided.

We have been discussing this in my school over the last few weeks and what will happen if schools close again. Already a few teachers have got their excuses in early and have said they wont be doing any kind of online teaching. They are giving the following reasons:
* No broadband, no hardware, no training
* Teachers afraid that they will be recorded and put up on social media
* They will have their own kids to look after or they have other committments
* They are not contracted to do online, and some have said the union have given advice that no teacher will be required to do any kind of online/hybrid teaching

I suspect this is what is happening in many teacher meetings up and down the country. My teacher friends are telling me they are having similar conversations. My sister has also said her local primary school have confirmed that they will be going back to the one email a week approach for all classes in the event of another closure (a huge amount of parents are against this hapening again apparently).

The reality is that if a teacher refuses to do online/hybrid there is nothing that can be done to sanction them. Nothing. They will have the support of the union, and (as can be seen from this thread) other teachers will also tacitly support them. It's even worse (as in my case) if the principal agrees with this and does not believe in online/hybrid. Unfortunately, this means that a lot of teachers will, yet again, do nothing if the schools close and nobody will be able to do anythimg about this. If anyone doubts this ask youself if there will be any sanction for teachers who did not work during the last lockdown. (Answer = there wont be).

josip · 24-09-2020 12:44PM

irishblessing wrote: »

No one is regressing due to schools closing. Hybrid. Remote. Learning. Properly funded education and support. ...

What is the hybrid remote learning model that Irish primary schools would use and how would the 'remote' part differ from home schooling at the end of last year?

There was a massive disparity in how the kids in our school were home schooled.
Some parents used it as an opportunity to catch up on areas of weakness while others (at least 10% of the parents in our classes) openly admitted to us to not doing any of the school work and just let the kids do whatever they wanted.
In some cases the parents had to work, in others the parents were unable to cope.

Deeec · 24-09-2020 01:00PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Yes it is a total disgrace. And could have been avoided.

We have been discussing this in my school over the last few weeks and what will happen if schools close again. Already a few teachers have got their excuses in early and have said they wont be doing any kind of online teaching. They are giving the following reasons:
* No broadband, no hardware, no training
* Teachers afraid that they will be recorded and put up on social media
* They will have their own kids to look after or they have other committments
* They are not contracted to do online, and some have said the union have given advice that no teacher will be required to do any kind of online/hybrid teaching

I suspect this is what is happening in many teacher meetings up and down the country. My teacher friends are telling me they are having similar conversations. My sister has also said her local primary school have confirmed that they will be going back to the one email a week approach for all classes in the event of another closure (a huge amount of parents are against this hapening again apparently).

The reality is that if a teacher refuses to do online/hybrid there is nothing that can be done to sanction them. Nothing. They will have the support of the union, and (as can be seen from this thread) other teachers will also tacitly support them. It's even worse (as in my case) if the principal agrees with this and does not believe in online/hybrid. Unfortunately, this means that a lot of teachers will, yet again, do nothing if the schools close and nobody will be able to do anythimg about this. If anyone doubts this ask youself if there will be any sanction for teachers who did not work during the last lockdown. (Answer = there wont be).

This is exactly why we need the DES to design a system which every school has to operate. It is infuriating as a parent that the DES 6 months into covid still dont have a standard approach to remote learning. Schools emailing a list of work once a week which parents are expected to teach their children is not acceptable - this is not teachers doing teaching. I think schools will close over the winter again and once again we will be left with some teachers going above and beyond and other teachers spending an hour writing up an email once a week.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 01:00PM

Blondini wrote: »

Read the specific question that that post answered.

And Wilbert, give up trying to catch me out, because you never will.

It's boring. Stay on topic.

As a “veteran educator”, you should surely be able to tell us what “school count” is?

Is it the number of cases in schools? Or is it the number of schools in which there was at least one case? Or is it the number of schools in which there were outbreaks?

And does it include cases discovered in, say August, now all closed?

mirrorwall14 · 24-09-2020 01:01PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Yes it is a total disgrace. And could have been avoided.

We have been discussing this in my school over the last few weeks and what will happen if schools close again. Already a few teachers have got their excuses in early and have said they wont be doing any kind of online teaching. They are giving the following reasons:
* No broadband, no hardware, no training
* Teachers afraid that they will be recorded and put up on social media
* They will have their own kids to look after or they have other committments
* They are not contracted to do online, and some have said the union have given advice that no teacher will be required to do any kind of online/hybrid teaching

I suspect this is what is happening in many teacher meetings up and down the country. My teacher friends are telling me they are having similar conversations. My sister has also said her local primary school have confirmed that they will be going back to the one email a week approach for all classes in the event of another closure (a huge amount of parents are against this hapening again apparently).

The reality is that if a teacher refuses to do online/hybrid there is nothing that can be done to sanction them. Nothing. They will have the support of the union, and (as can be seen from this thread) other teachers will also tacitly support them. It's even worse (as in my case) if the principal agrees with this and does not believe in online/hybrid. Unfortunately, this means that a lot of teachers will, yet again, do nothing if the schools close and nobody will be able to do anythimg about this. If anyone doubts this ask youself if there will be any sanction for teachers who did not work during the last lockdown. (Answer = there wont be).

This is once again your personal anecdote and about a school where you really should just leave if the reality is as you have portrayed.

Here’s mine. I’m off on official sick leave and have been out for a day waiting for a covid test result. All my classes were set work in line with our schools policy. I spent the day correcting and engaging with them. Even though I’m on sick leave I’m still correcting my exam classes over and back (speaking is the big issue) as I wouldn’t leave them in the lurch. I’ve emailed a full list of work to my VP with all the relevant links to the resources for those who will cover my classes.

At a school level every student and teacher has google classroom set up already as instructed by management. The WiFi is gone to tender for an upgrade to allow teachers to live stream into the classroom when isolating or to the home if we are in and the school isn’t. All subject departments have been sent a template form to fill in as to all the resources and plan for closures. All parents know that if we are closed we move online and the expectation will be for students to engage.

All other teachers I know at second level are putting similar systems in place

I’m completely sick of you coming in here disparaging your colleagues and a school and extrapolating from that to the whole teaching profession.

While yes there may be teachers who won’t do anything THAT IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER WORKPLACE. Equally there will be teachers who go above and beyond for their students just like in every work place. The vast majority of workers in the middle will do what is required and planned for.

ETA: teachers can be sanctioned and fired. But the principal and board of management need to actually want to do that

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 01:03PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Yes it is a total disgrace. And could have been avoided.

We have been discussing this in my school over the last few weeks and what will happen if schools close again. Already a few teachers have got their excuses in early and have said they wont be doing any kind of online teaching. They are giving the following reasons:
* No broadband, no hardware, no training
* Teachers afraid that they will be recorded and put up on social media
* They will have their own kids to look after or they have other committments
* They are not contracted to do online, and some have said the union have given advice that no teacher will be required to do any kind of online/hybrid teaching

I suspect this is what is happening in many teacher meetings up and down the country. My teacher friends are telling me they are having similar conversations. My sister has also said her local primary school have confirmed that they will be going back to the one email a week approach for all classes in the event of another closure (a huge amount of parents are against this hapening again apparently).

The reality is that if a teacher refuses to do online/hybrid there is nothing that can be done to sanction them. Nothing. They will have the support of the union, and (as can be seen from this thread) other teachers will also tacitly support them. It's even worse (as in my case) if the principal agrees with this and does not believe in online/hybrid. Unfortunately, this means that a lot of teachers will, yet again, do nothing if the schools close and nobody will be able to do anythimg about this. If anyone doubts this ask youself if there will be any sanction for teachers who did not work during the last lockdown. (Answer = there wont be).

Teachers objecting to doing things differently? You must be mistaken.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 01:07PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

While yes there may be teachers who won’t do anything THAT IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER WORKPLACE. Equally there will be teachers who go above and beyond for their students just like in every work place. The vast majority of workers in the middle will do what is required and planned for.

If the Asti taliban announce that they are not to do what is required, what will they do?

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 01:20PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

This is once again your personal anecdote and about a school where you really should just leave if the reality is as you have portrayed.

Here’s mine. I’m off on official sick leave and have been out for a day waiting for a covid test result. All my classes were set work in line with our schools policy. I spent the day correcting and engaging with them. Even though I’m on sick leave I’m still correcting my exam classes over and back (speaking is the big issue) as I wouldn’t leave them in the lurch. I’ve emailed a full list of work to my VP with all the relevant links to the resources for those who will cover my classes.

At a school level every student and teacher has google classroom set up already as instructed by management. The WiFi is gone to tender for an upgrade to allow teachers to live stream into the classroom when isolating or to the home if we are in and the school isn’t. All subject departments have been sent a template form to fill in as to all the resources and plan for closures. All parents know that if we are closed we move online and the expectation will be for students to engage.

All other teachers I know at second level are putting similar systems in place

I’m completely sick of you coming in here disparaging your colleagues and a school and extrapolating from that to the whole teaching profession.

While yes there may be teachers who won’t do anything THAT IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER WORKPLACE. Equally there will be teachers who go above and beyond for their students just like in every work place. The vast majority of workers in the middle will do what is required and planned for.

ETA: teachers can be sanctioned and fired. But the principal and board of management need to actually want to do that

But, with respect, is this just YOUR personal anecdote? And are you not extrapolating as well?

And if the poster has experienced the reality, then that for the poster is the reality.

My friends daughter is a teacher, in her first full year of teaching and really getting stuck in, and loving it. But according to her, the biggest issue she has is the incessant negativity - almost to the point of intimidation - by some older teachers in her school.

Is this universal? I doubt it.

Is it a unique isolated incident? I doubt it.

average_runner · 24-09-2020 01:20PM

I think there is something we are forgetting, in all work env there is good and bad employees.
If kids are sent home and the teacher has her own kids at home, I will understand they can't be online 9-3 every day, the same way they understand I can't do home schooling all day as I have a job.

Last March right through to June, the teachers were online 3 times a week, contactable on email all the time, did zoom calls and sent homework out each day for the kids to do.

Yes not all teachers are great technically, but you know you can always help them, by showing them a cool feature in powerpoint etc.

We showed our kids teachers a better way to do something and they were grateful for it.

Our kids are loving school right now, teachers are great with them and if something doesn't work they send a mail out to get ideas for a different approach.

teachinggal123 · 24-09-2020 01:21PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

This is once again your personal anecdote and about a school where you really should just leave if the reality is as you have portrayed.

...

I’m completely sick of you coming in here disparaging your colleagues and a school and extrapolating from that to the whole teaching profession.

While yes there may be teachers who won’t do anything THAT IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER WORKPLACE. Equally there will be teachers who go above and beyond for their students just like in every work place. The vast majority of workers in the middle will do what is required and planned for.

ETA: teachers can be sanctioned and fired. But the principal and board of management need to actually want to do that

With respect, you are also telling a personal anecdote and extrapolating that to all teachers.

Every teacher reading this thread knows that some teachers will do nothing if/when the schools close again. We all know some primary schools will go back to sending one email a week with no other support. And we all know the unions will FULLY support this and teachers on boards/Twitter/Facebook/etc will also tacitly support this by making claims that "all teachers are wroking 14 hour days etc etc etc".

No teacher will lost their job if they refuse to do online/hybrid. In fact, they will be supported and agressively protected by colleagues. If you dont already know that, you should.

wirelessdude01 · 24-09-2020 01:22PM

Will Yam wrote: »

But, with respect, is this just YOUR personal anecdote? And are you not extrapolating as well?

And if the poster has experienced the reality, then that for the poster is the reality.

My friends daughter is a teacher, in her first full year of teaching and really getting stuck in, and loving it. But according to her, the biggest issue she has is the incessant negativity - almost to the point of intimidation - by some older teachers in her school.

Is this universal? I doubt it.

Is it a unique isolated incident? I doubt it.

Sure look the poster in question openly bragged on here during lockdown about not doing a tap. When pulled up on it they then tried to blame their colleagues.

mirrorwall14 · 24-09-2020 01:22PM

Will Yam wrote: »

But, with respect, is this just YOUR personal anecdote? And are you not extrapolating as well?

And if the poster has experienced the reality, then that for the poster is the reality.

My friends daughter is a teacher, in her first full year of teaching and really getting stuck in, and loving it. But according to her, the biggest issue she has is the incessant negativity - almost to the point of intimidation - by some older teachers in her school.

Is this universal? I doubt it.

Is it a unique isolated incident? I doubt it.

I literally said ‘here’s mine’. As in mine is also an anecdote

History Queen · 24-09-2020 01:26PM

Be interesting to see if they procede with 1m social distancing in the Dail or not...

From the article:
" On the one-metre physical distancing, the report said the Oireachtas Health and Safety Committee does not support the proposal although its opinion is advisory "

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1167219/?__twitter_impression=true

teachinggal123 · 24-09-2020 01:27PM

average_runner wrote: »

I think there is something we are forgetting, in all work env there is good and bad employees.

That is absolutely true.

But the problem is that many of the teachers on Boards are saying that "all teachers" worked during lockdown. This is simply not true, and gives cover to those who did not work. This tacit, unquestioning support of teachers who refused to do online/hybrid is a real problem.

History Queen · 24-09-2020 01:28PM

History Queen wrote: »

Be interesting to see if they procede with 1m social distancing in the Dail or not...

From the article:
" On the one-metre physical distancing, the report said the Oireachtas Health and Safety Committee does not support the proposal although its opinion is advisory "

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1167219/?__twitter_impression=true

Sorry here's the link :

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1167219/?__twitter_impression=true

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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