How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

markodaly · 24-09-2020 02:51AM

The_Brood wrote: »

I assume this is sarcasm? No one actually believes children's education will be destroyed by taking classes at home, and that the benefits of education on sight supersede the supposed dangers of Covid 19 that the rest of society is locked down for?

The schools are opened because Irish parents don't want their own children around, and the government is too scared of parents as a voter block. Dark times.

F1-COVID-19-learning-loss-mathematics-forecast.png?fit=1000%2C750px&ssl=1

f2-COVID-19-learning-loss-reading-forecast.png?fit=1000%2C750px&ssl=1

f3-Learning-loss-in-4th-and-6th-grade-in-mathematics.png?fit=1000%2C750px&ssl=1

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/05/27/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-student-achievement-and-what-it-may-mean-for-educators/

The data says otherwise.

As a teacher, one should really follow what the evidence is saying, not what their Union Rep is saying.

markodaly · 24-09-2020 03:01AM

khalessi wrote: »

The majority of parents are decent hard woking people wanting the best for their kids.

Agree, but why do other teachers on here let comments like this slide?

Teacher bashing stems from feelings of inadequacy and jealousy.

Most likely didn't get enough points in the Leaving Cert to even do a basic degree.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you think these comments put teachers in the best possible light?

Quantum Erasure · 24-09-2020 04:14AM

markodaly wrote: »

The data says otherwise.

As a teacher, one should really follow what the evidence is saying, not what their Union Rep is saying.

'informed projections' from may, which don't take into account any home schooling/ on-line learning...

markodaly · 24-09-2020 04:42AM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

'informed projections' from may, which don't take into account any home schooling/ on-line learning...

Did you read the article?

Blondini · 24-09-2020 07:51AM

markodaly wrote: »

Agree, but why do other teachers on here let comments like this slide?

Do you think these comments put teachers in the best possible light?

Recognise yourself eh?

Anyway, in the eyes of the ignorant, they've already cast us in a certain light.

combat14 · 24-09-2020 08:00AM

markodaly wrote: »

Well, almost half the population pays no income tax, the bottom half of the workforce.

That is a huge outlier when it comes to the OECD. The average German, Swede, Finn or Dutch guy on a lower wage pays a hell of a lot more tax than the Irish guy on a similar wage. So if one really wants to go to European norms, to raise revenue then this would be the first port of call... right? :pac:

exactly right

thomasdylan · 24-09-2020 08:14AM

Purplewaters wrote: »

It wasn't you it was mark o daly who asked for no pay restore (not rise) to fund infrastructure.

In response to cpd, to compare with nursing, they receive masters paid for, study leave also and pay increase for the masters once they get it. Teachers get no pay increase for masters and have to pay for it all themselves. That js a huge difference even within public sector. Pretty sure most private companies fund relevant training but courses you do yourself to try get employed in other company etc proabbly not so it would depend on company ans reason for course I presume.

Nurses get less pay for more hours and work more unsociable hours than teachers.

There is limited funding for masters for nurses.

Blondini · 24-09-2020 08:29AM

Thought this was a thread about covid in schools, and not an echo chamber for the ill-informed to vent their irrational frustrations. Ah well.

thomasdylan · 24-09-2020 08:33AM

Blondini wrote: »

Thought this was a thread about covid in schools, and not an echo chamber for the ill-informed to vent their irrational frustrations. Ah well.

It's just jealousy of your elite academic achievements and 400 odd point Leaving cert.

Blondini · 24-09-2020 08:36AM

thomasdylan wrote: »

It's just jealousy of your elite academic achievements and 400 odd point Leaving cert.

Embarrassing.

That's what you came up with. Really?

Wow.

wirelessdude01 · 24-09-2020 08:46AM

thomasdylan wrote: »

It's just jealousy of your elite academic achievements and 400 odd point Leaving cert.

Just as well it wasn't jealousy of my elite academic achievements as I didn't get anywhere near 400 points in the aul LC.

facehugger99 · 24-09-2020 08:50AM

thomasdylan wrote: »

It's just jealousy of your elite academic achievements and 400 odd point Leaving cert.

Deep burn.

JimmyVik · 24-09-2020 08:59AM

Blondini wrote: »

Teacher bashing stems from feelings of inadequacy and jealousy.

Most likely didn't get enough points in the Leaving Cert to even do a basic degree.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Haters gonna hate.
I think you are right though. A lot of my friends who bash other peoples professions is because they are jealous. They dont realize it but its so obviously written on their faces when they are on a rant.
I really hate that carry on.

From personal experience though,

My friends wife is a teacher in primary and I gotta say that every time i am in their house in the evening she is working.
Id say she does longer hours than me to be fair. He says she definitely does longer hours than he does. She does get nice holidays to be fair but sure if I wanted those holidays I should have been a teacher.
I get 25 days holidays a year plus bank holidays. I know plenty of people who would kill for my holidays, so im not going to begrudge anyone who has more holidays than me either.

JimmyVik · 24-09-2020 09:04AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

When I was in the private sector I never paid for CPD. Study leave granted as well. Always resulted in a pay rise as well. Was very lucky in that regard.

One caveat is that if you didn't pass first time you then repaid 50% of the cost and obviously had to pay resit fees out of your own pocket.

With me if you left within 2 years of doing it you had to pay 50% of the cost.
I thought that for the majority of companies CPD is paid for by the company.

wirelessdude01 · 24-09-2020 09:09AM

JimmyVik wrote: »

With me if you left within 2 years of doing it you had to pay 50% of the cost.
I thought that for the majority of companies CPD is paid for by the company.

Oh that was the same in our place. Usually if people were leaving within the time frame they would include stuff like this in the salary negotiations with the new employer.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 09:29AM

Purplewaters wrote: »

Cant see anyone doing it then unless it was to change jobs or get a promotion, and they'd e changing for better salary. It essentially means most teachers won't do a masters unless theytr leaving teaching to do something else.

The reason they do it is because if they dont they lose their qualification or face financial sanctions

24-09-2020 09:34AM

This thread is now of very little use or relevance to anyone interested the subject matter of the thread.

Will Yam · 24-09-2020 09:34AM

markodaly wrote: »

A few things.

First of all, Ireland is years if not decades behind other countries when it comes to exploring technology in delivering education. There is simply no comparison when it comes to Ireland and say Singapore or Japan or Australia. The tech and infrastructure is just not there to do it large scale and commonly across the entire country.

Secondly, remote learning has its problems and the data is coming thick and fast in this.
Basicly kids from disadvantaged areas regress, yes they have gone backwards since Covid even though remote 'learning' is available in these countries with better infrastructure than Ireland.
Kids from good backgrounds do well, but that means that you are basically consigned kids from poorer economic situation to the scrapheap in the interest of keeping a few moaning teachers safe.

I dare say, its better to have kids in the classroom than not, and the data agrees with me on this.

Lastly, again, the stakeholders in education have to take a long long hard look at themselves. The Unions in eduction are a disgrace and have blocked any attempts at reform for the past few decades. Remember the Junior Cert reform? A lot of hot air about nothing from the Unions.

There is also the issue of learners learning from other learners. In the cpd world some professional bodies demand that any qualifying cpd event must have at least 5 participants for that reason

markodaly · 24-09-2020 10:03AM

Blondini wrote: »

Recognise yourself eh?

Anyway, in the eyes of the ignorant, they've already cast us in a certain light.

Well, I am not the person calling parents lazy and more interested in coffee time or gym time than their kid's education. But hey, what do I know?

I am sure you have all the answers to all the problems.

Blondini · 24-09-2020 10:08AM

markodaly wrote: »

Well, I am not the person calling parents lazy and more interested in coffee time or gym time than their kid's education. But hey, what do I know?

I am sure you have all the answers to all the problems.

Never once have I called parents lazy.

Yes, I ridicule teacher bashing; parents, never.

mvl · 24-09-2020 10:19AM

While it is interesting to see the graphs - hope they were done in order to provide a framework that allows catching up or reducing a so called "learning" debt. Anyone can find an actual strategy for that, do share - I am now intrigued ...
One problem with this system is that it shows no agility at all - so often I thought there are program managers from the industry that could have done a better job at managing this.

PS: I am not giving out to the teachers having to work in these conditions (they have my respect) // but the strategists that drive what is going on in schools from March onwards...

Hawthorn Tree · 24-09-2020 10:19AM

Do people think schools will still be open by end of October?

josip · 24-09-2020 10:25AM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Do people think school will still be open by end of October?

I think so, but that will depend more on for how long teachers are willing to accept their increased risk of exposure compared to most other workplaces.
As has already been announced, keeping schools open will be prioritised over many other activities/businesses.
My crystal ball tells me that there will probably be home schooling for (parts of) December and January.

wirelessdude01 · 24-09-2020 10:44AM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Do people think schools will still be open by end of October?

In a word yes. At primary level there is more of a 'vocation' element within teachers so they won't rock the boat as much as say the ASTI.

In my opinion the only reason schools will be shut is if parents start pulling kids out in significant numbers and then start looking for education support from home. Teachers can't do both in-class and online at the same time.

Boggles · 24-09-2020 11:03AM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Do people think schools will still be open by end of October?

There is no instance level of virus in a county or the country that will close schools.

A teacher who contracted the virus teaching 30 people in a confined space indoors and died can have 10 at their funeral though.

So Swings and Roundabouts.

Loafing Oaf · 24-09-2020 11:07AM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Do people think schools will still be open by end of October?

Schools stay open even under level 5 so it's hard to see what would force their closure

average_runner · 24-09-2020 11:12AM

josip wrote: »

I think so, but that will depend more on for how long teachers are willing to accept their increased risk of exposure compared to most other workplaces.
As has already been announced, keeping schools open will be prioritised over many other activities/businesses.
My crystal ball tells me that there will probably be home schooling for (parts of) December and January.

Home schooling isn't an option unless the government are going to fund companies where they lose staff to home schooling.

For example 2 people work from home, 9-6. Kids too young to do home schooling on their own, so if one of them has to quit our job, they need funding for it.

irishblessing · 24-09-2020 11:15AM

markodaly wrote: »

A few things.

First of all, Ireland is years if not decades behind other countries when it comes to exploring technology in delivering education. There is simply no comparison when it comes to Ireland and say Singapore or Japan or Australia. The tech and infrastructure is just not there to do it large scale and commonly across the entire country.

Secondly, remote learning has its problems and the data is coming thick and fast in this.
Basicly kids from disadvantaged areas regress, yes they have gone backwards since Covid even though remote 'learning' is available in these countries with better infrastructure than Ireland.
Kids from good backgrounds do well, but that means that you are basically consigned kids from poorer economic situation to the scrapheap in the interest of keeping a few moaning teachers safe.

I dare say, its better to have kids in the classroom than not, and the data agrees with me on this.

Lastly, again, the stakeholders in education have to take a long long hard look at themselves. The Unions in eduction are a disgrace and have blocked any attempts at reform for the past few decades. Remember the Junior Cert reform? A lot of hot air about nothing from the Unions.

I'll never take another post of yours seriously. You make ridiculous, disingenuous comments like this to try make a point where you don't have one.
Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds always will be. Teachers and schools will do their best but also these are not normal times. You might have heard we're in the worst global pandemic of our time? The Independent headlines at the moment saying if we all don't stop what we've been doing in a week or two we are sliding towards a national lock down. For the past 2 weeks I've talked to parents and listened on the radio, read on social media, etc about parents and families who are under serious pressure and stress because they are in the at risk category and have no satisfactory option to keep themselves safe and still give their children an education via professionals. It's not just people from disadvantaged backgrounds, ordinary people are crying out about this. Only heard yesterday on the way to collect my kids from school about a lady who had a high risk birth and has to keep her other children home without an education from their school.
Data can agree with you, but that is data in NORMAL times, and we are NOT in normal times so we all have to do what is best and respond to the times that are in it. There are cases all over the country in homes and workplaces and schools now. Those people are having to self isolate. There have been schools that have a teacher shortage already and entire classes are at home. No remote learning from them. Remote hybrid learning is FAR better than no learning and with the times that are in it, we should have it. It's a DISGRACE we do not have a national remote learning plan. A DISGRACE.

SusanC10 · 24-09-2020 11:15AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Schools stay open even under level 5 so it's hard to see what would force their closure

I believe that if we get to Level 5 , that will be revised and schools will be closed.

irishblessing · 24-09-2020 11:17AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Schools stay open even under level 5 so it's hard to see what would force their closure

Eh, the virus running rampant? Who educates them then when they're quarantining at home over and over again? :rolleyes:

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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