Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Plumbthedepths · 24-09-2020 01:04AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is absolutely despicable to use someone else's tragedy create a messaging that undermines safety in hospitals - the most vulnerable of all settings.

While what this woman went through was terrible and tragic and I can completely empathise (more than anyone else posting here I suspect) the greater good here is not exposing healthcare workers to the disease. It means that early pregnancy healthcare units can be staffed and be able to provide care to women rather than be closed because all the staff are out sick.

Then again, preaching about the greater good, the best for society is a lost cause here on boards. Pints and parties are more important.

Watch the step getting off the horse boss, you don't want to slip and fall. The arrogance is just dripping from your post. You know better than most?
Ah the pints put down, always the last resort when unable to defend a position.
lol.

MrMusician18 · 24-09-2020 01:23AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Watch the step getting off the horse boss, you don't want to slip and fall. The arrogance is just dripping from your post. You know better than most?
Ah the pints put down, always the last resort when unable to defend a position.
lol.

I didn't say I know better than most, I said I could empathise more than most posting here.

There's a huge difference. Learn to read.

Goldengirl · 24-09-2020 01:53AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Spare me the faux outrage love.

Over in the main thread you and your cohorts will be found stalking the pages to form a guerilla ambush on anyone who doesn't agree with the narrative that we are blessed with luck that 100k havent died in Ireland.

"Herd mentality here"

Hyprocracy is alive and well thats for sure

Why so aggressive?
Yes " herd" mentality like the so called immunity that is discussed here , as if it exists .
And .....Hypocrisy..... is alive and well for sure, I agree.
Don't know what you are complaining about really

I am sure you and others will be back working in finance and real estate soon, if not already , and couldn't give a tuppenny damn whether the health service survives this pandemic or not , because there's always the private hospitals , isn't there ?
Yes , Hypocrisy , indeed.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 24-09-2020 02:16AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

What the...? Where exactly do you think you live? Clue: It's not the Soviet Union or Communist China.

Your first paragraph (as also highlighted) shows how out of touch you are, but here's some perspective for you - *I* work from home, and have done for the last 6 months but I am not so blind or arrogant to presume that me being in a role that allows me to do that translates to EVERYONE being able to do that.

Nor do I presume that because I'm generally happy enough at home because I have my own space and peace and quiet that everyone else is in a similar position and can do likewise.
There are are people force to rent sitting rooms in crowded house shares, couples whose relationships are breaking down (or worse, domestic violence involved), socially isolated people whose mental health has been severely impacted by all this, and just normal everyday people who want to see their friends and loved ones.

At this point you are either so terrified of "the virus" that you really should talk to someone about it because it's not healthy to have that level of anger and outrage regardless of your view on it, or you're just too invested in your online position at this stage to back down. Either way it isn't good for you.

I gotta agree. I haven’t encountered anyone - either in real life or online - who is as worked up about this virus as Leroy Clever Semicolon is. I’m not sure how anyone can maintain that level of anxiety about it. Humans generally can’t stay in such a state for a sustained period of time. It’s not healthy.

Penfailed · 24-09-2020 06:32AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

1.23 million people receiving partial or full government financial support was never and will never be a ‘minority’.

Unless you want to change the definition in the dictionary, then it will always be a minority.

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2020 06:48AM

Full covid payments should be reenstated, it would help keep the economy ticking over

walus · 24-09-2020 07:01AM

Quinn Steep Policeman wrote: »

While I’m am not denying by any means that there are a lot of people impacted by covid job wise it’s certainly still a minority and plenty of average joes as you put it are doing fine.

Off the top of my head I don’t know a single person who as lost their job due to covid and I only know of two people who’s employer was availing of the covid scheme but they were both on full salary and their jobs were never at risk. The people I know are average joes in various sectors - finance, IT, public service, engineering, research, retail etc.

It is ridiculous suggestion that just because people’s jobs aren’t impacted that they aren’t entitled to an opinion or even worse suggesting that NEPHET is influenced by having secure jobs rather than public health and stopping the virus spread. This thread is turning into Facebook expect at least Facebook flags this rubbish as misleading, hoax material etc.

You need to stop making those cognitive shortcuts. People jobs are not being impacted by covid but by the government policy. More and more people are and will be losing their job thanks to the government and NOT COVID.

Also you keep on extrapolating from your own experience and saying that the "majority" of population is not affected and that because today things are rosy they will continue to be in the future. You are young and possibly have not experienced this before but when the subsidy scheme ends, and it will end I can assure you of that, tens of thousands of people will become unemployed. They will have problems paying their loans (pcps, mortgages etc.) and the credit window will shut as it always does. It is only then that we will all be touched by the effect of recession. Recession will be in a full swing.

There is a substantial cause-effect delay in the economy and the subsidy scheme introduced adds even more to that inertia. You'd better hold on to your pants because you might be in for a hell of a ride, just like the majority of us.

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2020 07:03AM

walus wrote:

There is a substantial cause-effect delay in the economy and the subsidy scheme introduced adds even more to that inertia. You'd better hold on to your pants because you might be in for a hell of a ride, just like the majority of us.

Covid payments are actually keeping the economy ticking over, increasing the money supply and the velocity of money circulating

walus · 24-09-2020 07:07AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Covid payments are actually keeping the economy ticking over, increasing the money supply and the velocity of money circulating

That is correct. It is cheaper to maintain than to create jobs. The government are doing the right thing. There are two issues with those, one is that these are possible through a borrowed money which will have to be paid back, and secondly that their current covid strategy will not reduce the risk of unemployment by the time the payments end.

Edit: The only solution to that will be to borrow more and continue with subsidy scheme, which only adds to a future financial burden.

facehugger99 · 24-09-2020 07:10AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I didn't say I know better than most, I said I could empathise more than most posting here.

There's a huge difference. Learn to read.

You can certainly virtue-signal better.

Empathy though requires. a better understanding of the issues at play.

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2020 07:15AM

walus wrote:

That is correct. It is cheaper to maintain and to create jobs. The government are doing the right thing. There are two issues with those, one is that these are possible through a borrowed money which will have to be paid back, and secondly that their current covid strategy will not solve the risk of unemployment by the time the payments end.

I disagree with the current strategy of reducing covid payments, people need that money to survive, and the economy desperately needs these folks spending it, you can see the government is beginning to default to its traditional economically conservative ways, I.e. pulling back and trying to force the money supply out into the private sector via credit creation, this could very well be lethal for the economy. the private sector is gonna have limited capacity to take on this debt for some time, as confidence is collapsing, pushing it towards public debt makes sense now, and it's far safer, growing deficits aren't as dangerous as we think, but continual servicing of those debts is critical

walus · 24-09-2020 07:19AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I disagree with the current strategy of reducing covid payments, people need that money to survive, and the economy desperately needs these folks spending it, you can see the government is beginning to default to its traditional economically conservative ways, I.e. pulling back and trying to force the money supply out into the private sector via credit creation, this could very well be lethal for the economy. the private sector is gonna have limited capacity to take on this debt for some time, as confidence is collapsing, pushing it towards public debt makes sense now, and it's far safer, growing deficits aren't as dangerous as we think, but continual servicing of those debts is critical

It is all true as long as it can last. The sad fact is that it cannot last long enough because there is no funding to support it long term and it will have to end. The government made a serious mistake thinking covid is a short term problem and from day one they applied a short term strategy that now they are trying to stretch to last well into next year.

Technically speaking they are kicking the can down the road hoping for positive development rather than creating them.

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2020 07:25AM

walus wrote:

It is all true as long as it can last. The sad fact is that it cannot last long enough because there is no funding to support it long term and it will have to end.

Oh naturally it will of course need to come to an end, but timing of that will be critical, but I believe that time is not now, the economy is in an extremely precarious place right now, it needs to be protected at all costs, for everyone's sake, and it looks like covid payment debates are heating up, we re gonna need those payments to get through the winter. I think the idea of preloading all households electricity accounts with credit should be investigated, might help with winter bills.

walus · 24-09-2020 07:32AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Oh naturally it will of course need to come to an end, but timing of that will be critical, but I believe that time is not now, the economy is in an extremely precarious place right now, it needs to be protected at all costs, for everyone's sake, and it looks like covid payment debates are heating up, we re gonna need those payments to get through the winter. I think the idea of preloading all households electricity accounts with credit should be investigated, might help with winter bills.

One way would be to bypass the government and put in the quantitative easing money directly into people's accounts - i.e. quantitative easing for the people, not for governments. This has never happen before as the theory is that the government know better where that money needs to be spent. I argue that the people, driven by their needs, are better positioned to spend it, so that that money gets re-cycled much more efficiently in the actual market. But hey, what do I know, the government have all the experts, right?

Edit: such quantitative easing would be much more efficient in terms of increasing inflation, and easy to control by suspending it for a period of time when the desired increase in inflation is achieved, and restored when it would need a further stimulus.

prunudo · 24-09-2020 07:41AM

In another vein of how "we are not all in this together" posts. The advice of self isolating even beyond a negative test impacts those on lower pay and who can't work from home. All well and good if you are earning over 35k and can continue working from home everytime you get a covid notification. Different story if you have to physically be in work and are now looking at reduced pup.

24-09-2020 08:16AM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I gotta agree. I haven’t encountered anyone - either in real life or online - who is as worked up about this virus as Leroy Clever Semicolon is. I’m not sure how anyone can maintain that level of anxiety about it. Humans generally can’t stay in such a state for a sustained period of time. It’s not healthy.

I’m no more worked up about it than most, I’d argue many here are more worked up about restrictions and wanting rid of them than I am about the virus. It may come as a surprise but my view would be the majority view in the country.

24-09-2020 08:51AM

Indeed ODB, it's not healthy.

There was an experiment done whereby two lab rats where injected with a cancerous agent. Rat A went about his business and Rat B had a very small occasional electrical current run through his cage, just enough to feel it.
After a while Rat B began to fear and anticipate the shock, or live in an anxious state.he developed the cancerous tumors in a fraction of the time, than Rat A did!!

And here we have old people locked in for months, in fear, no Vitamin D, less cancer screening at a time when age is the biggest risk factor for cancer.
This is before we even get on to anxiety in the now most unhappy teenage population in Europe. Remember if the BBC are to be believed at, one in two will get cancer at some stage!

Ginger n Lemon · 24-09-2020 08:58AM

Fakediamond wrote: »

There are good treatments for all the conditions you mention. And road deaths most definitely do not exceed COVID deaths in this country!

Road deaths - 110 From January to September 2020

COVID deaths - 1792 From March to September 2020

The only problem is that 1792 figure are deaths with covid. not from covid. While the road deaths are 100% from car crashes (without ambiguity).

Do you want to check your figure and send on deaths from covid? Or are you just typing what you hear on RTE?

24-09-2020 09:03AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

. While the road deaths are 100% from car crashes (without ambiguity).
?

Not true actually, there is always a percentage that are suspected suicides.

JoeA3 · 24-09-2020 09:04AM

Paityn Fit Lion wrote: »

It may come as a surprise but my view would be the majority view in the country.

There's no may about it. How do you come to that conclusion? Everyone in your immediate circle thinks exactly like you do, therefore its obvious, the whole country must do too?

I for one am not in your majority. Most people I know would have some degree of reservation about how the Government have been handling this. So by extrapolating your logic to my perspective, the majority view in the country does not align with the views of yours.

pjohnson · 24-09-2020 09:04AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

The only problem is that 1792 figure are deaths with covid. not from covid. While the road deaths are 100% from car crashes (without ambiguity).

Do you want to check your figure and send on deaths from covid? Or are you just typing what you hear on RTE?

Do you not count motorbikes in your road death figures ginge?

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2020 09:05AM

walus wrote: »

One way would be to bypass the government and put in the quantitative easing money directly into people's accounts - i.e. quantitative easing for the people, not for governments. This has never happen before as the theory is that the government know better where that money needs to be spent. I argue that the people, driven by their needs, are better positioned to spend it, so that that money gets re-cycled much more efficiently in the actual market. But hey, what do I know, the government have all the experts, right?

Edit: such quantitative easing would be much more efficient in terms of increasing inflation, and easy to control by suspending it for a period of time when the desired increase in inflation is achieved, and restored when it would need a further stimulus.

agree actually, but at the moment, this extremely radical idea could just very well be that, too radical, but maybe it ll be entertained soon, out of necessity, we ll see, but i think at the moment, we might just be able to implement not as radical ideas, to get through the short term

24-09-2020 09:10AM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Those that support the harsh restrictions and lockdown, should be asked about their own jobs and circumstances. It appears 99% of these people are in safe secure pensionable jobs or retired on their pensions. Many are also married with children and couldn't care less about single people in social isolation and the problems that brings.

The pro lockdown people are totally underhanded and utterly selfish. I'm so sick of their arrogance in proclaiming they have everyones best interest at heart. They are entirely self interested. Anyone still cheerleading such dranconian measures should be asked and called out on their own jobs and finances. Easy to dictate the destruction of others jobs and lives when it doesn't affect you!

We aren't "all in this together" and never have been!

This ^^^
I love my sister to bits BUT we have fallen out a lot during Covid. She and her husband are both retired, good pension, living in a remote part of Ireland, kids reared and gone. They are huge advocates of lockdown at all costs! I mentioned that I and most of the country NEEDED to work, mortgages, rent, loans but I was told public health was the only thing that mattered.
They are terrified of catching it, terrified beyond reason. I have been lectured and admonished for going hiking, going shopping and even going to work (which I had to during Covid).

Neither of them have underlying conditions, yet they didn't go to a shop from March until June, not once. They got everything delivered and washed all the shopping.

The longer their isolation went on, the worse they got. Meanwhile because I was working throughout I was very realistic, took precautions and just got on with life and did things. I can't imagine the stress of being so scared ALL THE TIME. Its crazy. Live your life, the media and the Government have people scared to death. Turn the radio/TV off, turn the phone off if you have to, go for walk, listen to nature, we are all going to die anyway.

Idbatterim · 24-09-2020 09:32AM

Lads, just a strange hunch, but as I no longer watch , listen or read the news, as Im not supporting a business, looking to profiteer from whipping up a frenzy and or being as lazy and useless as the irish media. But is Glynn " concerned" today? are the next ten days " absolutely critical" ?

Start by turning off the rte garbage folks! You know what sums up rte perfectly? That late late show ****, meant to be lighthearted entertainment on a friday evening... bit other than the **** host, **** guests... the best bit? Theyll always have to have someone with a life horror story on it, to remind you after your long week and longed for escapism , that there is someone worse off out there....

Every other rte current affairs programme, dont highlight the misery enough it seems...

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2020 09:37AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Lads, just a strange hunch, but as I no longer watch , listen or read the news, aa Im not supportimg an industry looking to profiteer from whipping up a frenzy and or being as lazy and useless as the irish media. But is Glynn " concerned" today? are the next ten days " absolutely critical" ?

globally, journalism is in big trouble, but its important to realise, all news and information sources are biased, thats includes sources both of us use

Ginger n Lemon · 24-09-2020 09:37AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Lads, just a strange hunch, but as I no longer watch , listen or read the news, aa Im not supportimg an industry looking to profiteer from whipping up a frenzy and or being as lazy and useless as the irish media. But is Glynn " concerned" today? are the next ten days " absolutely critical" ?

Dr Ronan Glynn, Acting Chief Medical Officer, said: “The single most important thing that people all across the country need to do now is to reduce their social contacts.

https://www.thejournal.ie/coronavirus-figures-ireland-9-5212957-Sep2020/

You know it.

I for one can't understand, I thought heading into the flu season Ro Ro would tell us to look after our immune system. to eat oranges, get that vitamin C, the good stuff.

And yet Ro Ro only wants us to isolate and live some sort of smeagol life for the next 6 months....

24-09-2020 09:41AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

But is Glynn " concerned" today? are the next ten days " absolutely critical" ?
.

Indeed Glynn is very concerned and the next 10 days are critical.
But if we double down our efforts and half our contacts, we might be able to suppress the virus a small bit until it inevitably increases again.

lee_baby_simms · 24-09-2020 09:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This ^^^
I love my sister to bits BUT we have fallen out a lot during Covid. She and her husband are both retired, good pension, living in a remote part of Ireland, kids reared and gone. They are huge advocates of lockdown at all costs! I mentioned that I and most of the country NEEDED to work, mortgages, rent, loans but I was told public health was the only thing that mattered.
They are terrified of catching it, terrified beyond reason. I have been lectured and admonished for going hiking, going shopping and even going to work (which I had to during Covid).

Neither of them have underlying conditions, yet they didn't go to a shop from March until June, not once. They got everything delivered and washed all the shopping.

The longer their isolation went on, the worse they got. Meanwhile because I was working throughout I was very realistic, took precautions and just got on with life and did things. I can't imagine the stress of being so scared ALL THE TIME. Its crazy. Live your life, the media and the Government have people scared to death. Turn the radio/TV off, turn the phone off if you have to, go for walk, listen to nature, we are all going to die anyway.

Great post. It is intriguing alright, the daily checking of cases/ICU/deaths, listening to radio and watching tv every day...it can certainly lead many to a point of mild psychosis.

What always gets to me about the pro-lockdown stance is that it's rooted in a "save a life at any cost", but its actually a "save a covid-life at any cost"

We have record numbers of homeless people dying on the streets of Dublin this year, I have a relative who is a social worker who had 4 of her clients commit suicide in a single week in May which was unprecedented in her years working, we will have hundreds of terminal missed cancer diagnoses this year, then we have all the deaths from heart disease and stroke that could have been prevented.

But the problem is that this reality is not being conveyed on RTE and theres no daily briefing that note all the collateral deaths that these restrictions have caused.

Even worse, I tried to get the suicide numbers from the CSO last month and I told the figures for 2020 have been withheld until summer 2021. Thats intentional.

Idbatterim · 24-09-2020 09:44AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

globally, journalism is in big trouble, but its important to realise, all news and information sources are biased, thats includes sources both of us use

I feel here when they are scared to take any posotion that isnt left and liberal, often because they are cowards. Well, you are going to alienate a lot of your customers.. . They are getting what they deserve. Ireland would have to be a prime examle of where, in the year 2020 with the world f knowledge at our finger tips, rte like the catholoc church, can dictate the narrative and agenda to a ridiculoys degree. Then thete is the total lack of political leadership , zero accountability. Its a clusterfcuk!

Let me tell you now, if the poloticians knew the swedush model woukd hwve been better, say five years down the road , with a lot of hindsight, theyd still choose what they did here! Why? Because its the easy way out, that looked caring... you can then always say " we were cautious, did our best" total cowardice

24-09-2020 09:46AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Dr Ronan Glynn, Acting Chief Medical Officer, said: “The single most important thing that people all across the country need to do now is to reduce their social contacts.

https://www.thejournal.ie/coronavirus-figures-ireland-9-5212957-Sep2020/

You know it.

I for one can't understand, I thought heading into the flu season Ro Ro would tell us to look after our immune system. to eat oranges, get that vitamin C, the good stuff.

And yet Ro Ro only wants us to isolate and live some sort of smeagol life for the next 6 months....

The man is a f*cking joke at this point.
He was enjoying his celebrity status on the late late recently and he said that he doesn't want to see people isolated at home.

And here he is 2 weeks later banging the stay at home alone drum.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings