Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

3xh · 23-09-2020 10:28PM

Another well-timed reminder by NPHET’s media arm of how we’re doing it wrong and if we just comply we’ll be back to normal ASAP.

Another airing too of this QR code idea for when they try implement it here. Normalises it. Cinema, transport, work, etc.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0923/1166979-coronavirus-china/

Fakediamond · 23-09-2020 10:29PM

Correct, only the ones who can be saved go to ICU and still the beds are filling up. Where I disagree with the responses is that the reason why we are not being overwhelmed is not because the virus is waning but because of the restrictions. Returning to “business as usual” will result in large scale deaths, and a legacy of health problems for many who survive. If people are really willing to take that chance, good luck to them, but most people I know are not open to that. And therein lies the dilemma for authorities, how to balance the rights of those of us who don’t want to take the risk of serious illness or death, with those people who want to live freely and don’t want to be restricted.

23-09-2020 10:39PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Would you ever stop spamming the thread with that question over and over.

Nah.

It’s fun to see the pro restrictions posters desperately try to avoid the question.

Easy to support something that doesn’t impact you.

Captain_Crash · 23-09-2020 10:39PM

Fakediamond wrote: »

Correct, only the ones who can be saved go to ICU and still the beds are filling up.

Ahh come on now... stop with that! There’s 16.... I’d hardly call that filing up!

23-09-2020 10:41PM

Hospitals decreased by 6 today

Ginger n Lemon · 23-09-2020 10:51PM

Fakediamond wrote: »

I accept that there is a growing unease about the restrictions but I wonder are we prepared for the apocalyptic scenes that we saw coming out of Italy at the beginning of the pandemic? They were better equipped than us, with 12 ICU beds per 100,000 of population. We have 5 ICU beds per 100,000 of population, hence the worry about being overwhelmed. A friend, who is an ICU nurse in Madrid, says that of 500 ICU beds there, 400 have COVID patients in them at the moment. In New York, if you remember back, people died of COVID in the queues outside the hospitals.

So these are the stark choices, live freely and risk serious illness and death, get a proper track and trace system, with people using it honestly, or stay locked down for months. I will continue to live a restricted life, as I have an underlying condition and hope to live in reasonable health for another few years.

I would hate to be presiding over decisions that are affecting so many people in so many ways. It’s an unenviable task, not helped by all the competing interests clamouring to be heard.,

Is it because we have over 15% of unemployment in the country for 6th month running?

That 2nd part in bold - you realize that covid lags behind road deaths right? That "live freely and risk serious illness" assumes that pre covid people lived freely without a care or worry in the world? That tuberculosis, HIV, flu etc. were not a bother?

Fakediamond · 23-09-2020 11:05PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Is it because we have over 15% of unemployment in the country for 6th month running?

That 2nd part in bold - you realize that covid lags behind road deaths right? That "live freely and risk serious illness" assumes that pre covid people lived freely without a care or worry in the world? That tuberculosis, HIV, flu etc. were not a bother?

There are good treatments for all the conditions you mention. And road deaths most definitely do not exceed COVID deaths in this country!

Road deaths - 110 From January to September 2020

COVID deaths - 1792 From March to September 2020

23-09-2020 11:16PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Would you ever stop spamming the thread with that question over and over.

Ask them if they have an underlying condition

SusieBlue · 23-09-2020 11:16PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Limiting contacts. It's pretty obvious. It's the entire rational behind the restrictions. The last place you want Covid spreading, other than a nursing home, is a hospital.

But it’s not limiting contact because the woman has been in contact with the man, therefore if he has it, she’ll have it, and she’ll bring it in with her. It makes no sense and it doesn’t reduce contact.

Currently he is allowed into the delivery suite when the woman has laboured to 3/4cm on her own. The rest of the labour typically lasts a lot longer than 15 minutes, therefore he is already going to be in close contact with the medical staff for the end of the labour anyway, so it’s all for nothing.

We are doing a great disservice and inflicting extra trauma on the many couples who are getting terrible news at this time, they deserve better than that. This cannot be sustained any longer, it was brought in as a temporary emergency measure 6 months ago and there’s still no end in sight.
As far as I’m aware there have been no clusters in maternity hospitals so it’s just another example of the government throwing restrictions at non issues instead of addressing the actual problem areas.

SusieBlue · 23-09-2020 11:17PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ask them if they have an underlying condition

I’m asthmatic which is considered a severe underlying condition and I still think the way the government is handling things is abysmal.

Open the Pubs · 23-09-2020 11:24PM

Those that support the harsh restrictions and lockdown, should be asked about their own jobs and circumstances. It appears 99% of these people are in safe secure pensionable jobs or retired on their pensions. Many are also married with children and couldn't care less about single people in social isolation and the problems that brings.

The pro lockdown people are totally underhanded and utterly selfish. I'm so sick of their arrogance in proclaiming they have everyones best interest at heart. They are entirely self interested. Anyone still cheerleading such dranconian measures should be asked and called out on their own jobs and finances. Easy to dictate the destruction of others jobs and lives when it doesn't affect you!

We aren't "all in this together" and never have been!

23-09-2020 11:27PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

But it’s not limiting contact because the woman has been in contact with the man, therefore if he has it, she’ll have it, and she’ll bring it in with her. It makes no sense and it doesn’t reduce contact.

Currently he is allowed into the delivery suite when the woman has laboured to 3/4cm on her own. The rest of the labour typically lasts a lot longer than 15 minutes, therefore he is already going to be in close contact with the medical staff for the end of the labour anyway, so it’s all for nothing.

We are doing a great disservice and inflicting extra trauma on the many couples who are getting terrible news at this time, they deserve better than that. This cannot be sustained any longer, it was brought in as a temporary emergency measure 6 months ago and there’s still no end in sight.
As far as I’m aware there have been no clusters in maternity hospitals so it’s just another example of the government throwing restrictions at non issues instead of addressing the actual problem areas.

My wife is heavily pregnant at the moment so I can confirm that the restrictions in maternity hospitals are as farcical as everything else.

I wasn’t allowed in for any of the scans or appointments which caused my wife a great deal of stress and anxiety.

Due to some issues with the pregnancy, she was admitted to hospital for a few days last week.

I was allowed in during the visiting hours. Seems strange that I was allowed in during visiting hours but not the scans.

When she goes into labour, I won’t be allowed in unless she happens to be labouring during visiting hours. When the visiting hours are over and I’ll have to leave and come back again when established labour begins...

But yeah..: I guess all of this is really helping...

MrMusician18 · 23-09-2020 11:41PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

Gina Daly from The Daly Dish (food influencer type couple, herself and her husband) just posted about her nightmare, a miscarriage she had a few weeks ago. Her husband wasn't allowed to be with her for the checks and the scans, and the final scan.

Imagine how heartbreaking that must have been.

Stupid, stupid restriction.

Absolutely despicable to use someone else's personal tragedy further a point which undermines public health.

23-09-2020 11:47PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Absolutely despicable to use someone else's personal tragedy further a point which undermines public health.

Looks like he is empathising with the poor woman... Is that despicable?

SusieBlue · 23-09-2020 11:49PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Absolutely despicable to use someone else's personal tragedy further a point which undermines public health.

She highlighted it herself and did so to raise awareness for the trauma that she and other couples are going through right now.
She is hoping more awareness might bring some revision of the current rules so her story being shared here is exactly what she intended to happen.

Her having to go through the devastation of losing her baby alone, and without the support of her husband, isn’t going to save any lives from covid.
Despicable of you to use this woman’s personal tragedy and her efforts to help other woman as an opportunity to continue beating your drum about ‘public health.’
Public health is multidimensional and effects all citizens and it isn’t in the best interests of these women to have to go through this alone.

FintanMcluskey · 23-09-2020 11:49PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Absolutely despicable to use someone else's personal tragedy further a point which undermines public health.

Ah here. This is a load of bolix.

Every time anyone questions any restrictions they are met with anecdotal boloxoligy of some granny in a nursing home, who was struck down in her prime from Covid.

Despicable. Never heard such rubbish

Open the Pubs · 23-09-2020 11:50PM

Nobody has to undermine Public Health, NPHET does that daily!

Glynn and Nolan earlier with their favourite classic "the next 10 days are critical", do me a favour! They've been saying that since March we're 7 months in ffs! And it's probably been here even longer.

What about day 11? They have no credibility or plan. What happened to living with Covid?
There may never be a widespread vaccine, why are they pretending it's coming anytime soon?

dubdaymo · 23-09-2020 11:51PM

Fakediamond wrote: »

Returning to “business as usual” will result in large scale deaths, and a legacy of health problems for many who survive.

So you can see into the future? Would you mind having a look at your crystal ball and letting me have the winning Lotto numbers for the next 20 draws. Thanks.

Open the Pubs · 23-09-2020 11:59PM

Are the salaries for NPHET members available anywhere?

I'm sure the Maynooth University President Nolan, and CMO Glynn with his RTE journalist wife will be alright financially. Likewise Luke O'Neill who maid €500 million euros selling his company last week!

I'm sure lockdown, job losses and economic destruction they cheerlead and talk about as if it is nothing, affects them financially and all the stooges in RTE likewise. Yeah right!

In it together my arse! The average Joe gets crushed financially and these guys are profiting from it. Same old Ireland

Idbatterim · 24-09-2020 12:03AM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Those that support the harsh restrictions and lockdown, should be asked about their own jobs and circumstances. It appears 99% of these people are in safe secure pensionable jobs or retired on their pensions. Many are also married with children and couldn't care less about single people in social isolation and the problems that brings.

The pro lockdown people are totally underhanded and utterly selfish. I'm so sick of their arrogance in proclaiming they have everyones best interest at heart. They are entirely self interested. Anyone still cheerleading such dranconian measures should be asked and called out on their own jobs and finances. Easy to dictate the destruction of others jobs and lives when it doesn't affect you!

We aren't "all in this together" and never have been!

true! A large part of the cohort that believe they should pay nothing! Virtually no LPT, no water charges etc. Let the working poor even be hit with a 50% marginal rate of tax, insanity housing costs... "solidarity" LOL! LOL!

The borrowing of tens of billions , to throw on the younger generations , who will be picking up the tab their entire life, paying more than ever to put a roof over their head too, its laughable! The last bust, this bust, its morally obscene! Sending the fortune up to those , many of whom picked up property for a pittance, massive windfalls through no effort on their behalf, inheritance or a few down. But yeah, keep sucking the money from the young up the the middle aged and old. You dont need to go anywhere near as far as Denis OBrien wealth to see the hypocrisy in the "we are all in this together" ****e!

24-09-2020 12:10AM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

In it together my arse! The average Joe gets crushed financially and these guys are profiting from it. Same old Ireland

While I’m am not denying by any means that there are a lot of people impacted by covid job wise it’s certainly still a minority and plenty of average joes as you put it are doing fine.

Off the top of my head I don’t know a single person who as lost their job due to covid and I only know of two people who’s employer was availing of the covid scheme but they were both on full salary and their jobs were never at risk. The people I know are average joes in various sectors - finance, IT, public service, engineering, research, retail etc.

It is ridiculous suggestion that just because people’s jobs aren’t impacted that they aren’t entitled to an opinion or even worse suggesting that NEPHET is influenced by having secure jobs rather than public health and stopping the virus spread. This thread is turning into Facebook expect at least Facebook flags this rubbish as misleading, hoax material etc.

SusieBlue · 24-09-2020 12:16AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

While I’m am not denying by any means that there are a lot of people impacted by covid job wise it’s certainly still a minority and plenty of average joes as you put it are doing fine.

Off the top of my head I don’t know a single person who as lost their job due to covid and I only know of two people who’s employer was availing of the covid scheme but they were both on full salary and their jobs were never at risk. The people I know are average joes in various sectors - finance, IT, public service, engineering etc.

It is ridiculous suggestion that just because people’s jobs aren’t impacted that they aren’t entitled to an opinion or even worse suggesting that NEPHET is influenced by having secure jobs rather than public health and stopping the virus spread. This thread is turning into Facebook expect at least Facebook flags this rubbish as misleading, hoax material etc.

1.23 million people receiving partial or full government financial support was never and will never be a ‘minority’.

The idea that you perceive this to be an insignificant amount of people and are so willing to offer them & their futures up as a sacrifice in the ‘fight against covid’, while you and everyone you know have had no financial impact from the restrictions, speaks volumes.

24-09-2020 12:24AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

1.23 million people receiving partial or full government financial support was never and will never be a ‘minority’.

The idea that you perceive this to be an insignificant amount of people and are so willing to offer them & their futures up as a sacrifice in the ‘fight against covid’, while you and everyone you know have had no financial impact from the restrictions, speaks volumes.

I need to do some digging to confirm that 1.23 million number but regardless the majority of that number was a temporary period while waiting for things to reopen and many were in full pay throughout.

Builders for example are so busy not they can’t get got yet a lot of these would have been included in the numbers getting payments.

Again I’m not denying there are people impacted badly but the reality is that the health of the nation has to come first, economies recover, people will get back to work but no one who dies will come back to life.

Fakediamond · 24-09-2020 12:30AM

dubdaymo wrote: »

So you can see into the future? Would you mind having a look at your crystal ball and letting me have the winning Lotto numbers for the next 20 draws. Thanks.

I don’t need a crystal ball, I’m using the 1792 COVID deaths in the past six months, while we were under severe restrictions, to estimate how it would be if we lift restrictions.

topper75 · 24-09-2020 12:31AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

but the reality is that the health of the nation has to come first, economies recover, people will get back to work but no one who dies will come back to life.

Would make sense if we were looking at a High Consequence Infectious Disease. Covid is nothing near one.

Right now the govt's own stats page shows a figure of 1794. Directly beneath that figure are the following words:

"includes probable and possible". :cool: Who knows what has been bundled in here. Bear in mind that over 30,000 die in Ireland every year.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Captain_Crash · 24-09-2020 12:34AM

topper75 wrote: »

Bear in mind that over 6000 die in Ireland every year.

It’s closer to 30,000 per year

SusieBlue · 24-09-2020 12:39AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I need to do some digging to confirm that 1.23 million number but regardless the majority of that number was a temporary period while waiting for things to reopen and many were in full pay throughout.

Builders for example are so busy not they can’t get got yet a lot of these would have been included in the numbers getting payments.

Again I’m not denying there are people impacted badly but the reality is that the health of the nation has to come first, economies recover, people will get back to work but no one who dies will come back to life.

No need to dig, here’s the link. 800k people completely reliant on government financial support and 464k were on the wage subsidy scheme.
You can downplay it all you want but the numbers speak for themselves. That is a LOT of people, a lot of families and a lot of futures that are now impacted.

The health of the nation isn’t at risk. The health of those 75+, those with underlying conditions and the immunocompromised is at risk.
Those people should cocoon and be financially assisted by the government so they can be protected for as long as needs be, but everyone else needs to move on and get on with it.
Keeping a young healthy workforce locked in their houses watching Netflix for months on end is not a solution.
And saying we will recover is futile, time is passing even if life is on hold. Futures are at risk and it isn’t just those diagnosed with covid that are suffering, lots of other people are suffering too and their plight is just as relevant and worthy of concern as covid patients.

As someone else said, it’s the equivalent of setting your house on fire to kill a spider.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1139104/

Open the Pubs · 24-09-2020 12:41AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

While I’m am not denying by any means that there are a lot of people impacted by covid job wise it’s certainly still a minority and plenty of average joes as you put it are doing fine.

Off the top of my head I don’t know a single person who as lost their job due to covid and I only know of two people who’s employer was availing of the covid scheme but they were both on full salary and their jobs were never at risk. The people I know are average joes in various sectors - finance, IT, public service, engineering, research

Is this wind up? Average Joes doing fine in finance, academia, IT engineering and the public sector?

You've just listed the highest paid sectors in the country, all of whom are least affected by lockdown and restrictions!

topper75 · 24-09-2020 12:45AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s closer to 30,000 per year

Thanks Captain. I read the stats a bit fast there and it was a rate figure, 6.xxx per 100,000 or something. I knew once I hit send that that didn't make sense for a pop of 5m and edited. Sorry for the confusion.

The overall 2020 Irish figure may reveal quite a lot in time.

MrMusician18 · 24-09-2020 12:56AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah here. This is a load of bolix.

Every time anyone questions any restrictions they are met with anecdotal boloxoligy of some granny in a nursing home, who was struck down in her prime from Covid.

Despicable. Never heard such rubbish

It is absolutely despicable to use someone else's tragedy create a messaging that undermines safety in hospitals - the most vulnerable of all settings.

While what this woman went through was terrible and tragic and I can completely empathise (more than anyone else posting here I suspect) the greater good here is not exposing healthcare workers to the disease. It means that early pregnancy healthcare units can be staffed and be able to provide care to women rather than be closed because all the staff are out sick.

Then again, preaching about the greater good, the best for society is a lost cause here on boards. Pints and parties are more important.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings