Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Assetbacked · 18-09-2020 04:09PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

It won't be the end of November, it will take longer than that but the big irony in all of the discussions and decisions so far, is that the endgame in all of this is pretty much inevitable.

Histories quickest vaccine is a pipedream and eventually the worlds governments will have no choice left but to open up society and try to co-exist with the virus. By next year there will be no more lockdowns, no more pandemic payments, no more flattening curves, no more daily reports, no more threat levels, just society finally recognising and accepting that they cannot hide from these viruses and so getting on with their lives as best they can. Measures like social distancing and hand washing will become part of culture but all the government mandated measures? No.

People can't see that now, it is still too fresh and new but all the signs are there. Unfortunately it would take a very strong government to make the decision to act accordingly with this, so we need to play out all the failed lockdowns and white elephant health measures before the masses finally come to realise what is happening. We could save a lot of hardship by making those hard decisions now but instead we have to play this out until the inevitable.

I completely agree with you. The endgame is inevitable. Based on the last 4 months, in the next 8 months we are going to have around 452 more covid deaths or approximately 2 per day for the 8 months. In the last few weeks there is definitely a far more noticeable presence online criticising the slow easing of restrictions and questioning more the logic of restrictions in the context of the data. The fact the government are paying hundreds of thousands to advisors to get a media narrative out there that there is a crisis indicates they know they are fighting an uphill battle against the data and the public.

Heroditas · 18-09-2020 04:12PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-nphet-recommends-ban-on-indoor-dining-in-dublin-1.4357279

Who is running the country?? The Government or NPHET? The Government need to seriously reel in NPHET and their 'leaks' / multiple interviews to the press / multiple push notifications from media coming from NPHET - acting as if what they say goes. They are acting as if they are the ultimate authority, and the Government meeting today is just to rubber stamp this.
I did not vote for NPHET or a Covid only approach to everything in Ireland from here on out and I won't accept it. If Míchael Martin and FF are so weak they cannot make a collective decision focusing on the widespread detrimental effects of these upcoming restrictions, then general election is needed now. We cannot allow ourselves to be run into the ground by a bunch of well-paid doctors sitting on advisory boards, and the cohort of nutty professors that appear on all media platforms daily....
How can anyone justify the HSE doctor's (Dr Martin Feeley) sacking just because he expressed a different opinion when we seem to be run with a Covid only focus 6 months later...

Agree 100% with you. I'd been in the side of this and the previous government until this week but I am completely fed up with them now.
Everything is a knee jerk decision with no apparent logic or thought given to the wider society.
I can see a large backlash to the announcement this evening and it's deserved. They released a 5 Level plan and started deviating from it on the day it was launched.

Spanish Eyes · 18-09-2020 04:14PM

Shield the vulnerable. Don't let anyone visit them or anything.

Keep the shielders away from the plague.

The rise in hospital admissions is a concern though isn't it? That is what they are watching closely now.

Spanish Eyes · 18-09-2020 04:15PM

Heroditas wrote: »

Agree 100% with you. I'd been in the side of this and the previous government until this week but I am completely fed up with them now.
Everything is a knee jerk decision with no apparent logic or thought given to the wider society.
I can see a large backlash to the announcement this evening and it's deserved. They released a 5 Level plan and started deviating from it on the day it was launched.

I think most rational people will observe. But sayonara.

average_runner · 18-09-2020 04:15PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So it's the pubs fault they didn't open?

Technically yes, there was nothing stopping them. I know two pubs opened up, across the road from the garda station and they did nothing. This was in South Dublin. Garda are drinking in it also.

average_runner · 18-09-2020 04:17PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think most rational people will observe. But sayonara.

I actually believe people will keep doing what they are doing now. People don't trust HSE or government anymore.

Wash your hands, keep your distancing, wear the mask in shops and things will be ok.

FrStone · 18-09-2020 04:20PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Effectively you are telling our industry to close down as of midnight tonight if Cabinet sign off on this," he stated.

He said up to 50,000 jobs in Dublin could be affected if the restriction is introduced.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0918/1165966-ibec-on-dublin-restrictions/

Jobs affected by potential decision tonight. No mortgage breaks for these people btw. No 350 euros per week either. This isnt March and we arent clapping for HSE.

Just hospitality btw. Other sectors are also affected.....

Welcome back! I missed your analysis of this **** show.

I wonder how long until the government makes its next farce of an annoucement.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 04:25PM

FrStone wrote: »

Welcome back! I missed your analysis of this **** show.

I wonder how long until the government makes its next farce of an annoucement.

Thank you.

Within 2 hours. Within 2 hours they will (I am praying they dont) announce that all restaurants must close or do takeaway only, all museums must close, galleries (these are the most infectious spots in Dublin currently).

And then on 3rd of October you will have (my guess) 3 - 4 thousand people protesting from customs house all the way to govt buildings on merrion square. Now it could be much higher, as restaurant staff will be very upset experiencing 2nd lockdown in less than 7 months. (I wont talk about pissed off pub workers)

And ofcourse the classic Irish government controlling your life "You cant leave the county unless its for essential purposes".

In theory all is well? Except for there are no mortgage breaks anymore. PUP is not 350 euros per week, and every 6th person before todays announcement is actually unemployed.

Spanish Eyes · 18-09-2020 04:31PM

average_runner wrote: »

I actually believe people will keep doing what they are doing now. People don't trust HSE or government anymore.

Wash your hands, keep your distancing, wear the mask in shops and things will be ok.

Exactly.

Penfailed · 18-09-2020 04:33PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Please stop spewing this absolute nonsense. Wet pubs in Dublin ARE NOT re opening on Monday. REGARDLESS of today's meeting.

Seriously, are you misinformed or you think because a small pub in Donegal re opens on Monday that all the pubs in Ireland "They are re opening again on Monday "

Oh yeah Dublin. Everything beyond the pale is irrelevant? Either way, the closures are temporary, even in Dublin.

Penfailed · 18-09-2020 04:35PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-nphet-recommends-ban-on-indoor-dining-in-dublin-1.4357279

Who is running the country?? The Government or NPHET? The Government need to seriously reel in NPHET and their 'leaks' / multiple interviews to the press / multiple push notifications from media coming from NPHET - acting as if what they say goes. They are acting as if they are the ultimate authority, and the Government meeting today is just to rubber stamp this.
I did not vote for NPHET or a Covid only approach to everything in Ireland from here on out and I won't accept it. If Míchael Martin and FF are so weak they cannot make a collective decision focusing on the widespread detrimental effects of these upcoming restrictions, then general election is needed now. We cannot allow ourselves to be run into the ground by a bunch of well-paid doctors sitting on advisory boards, and the cohort of nutty professors that appear on all media platforms daily....
How can anyone justify the HSE doctor's (Dr Martin Feeley) sacking just because he expressed a different opinion when we seem to be run with a Covid only focus 6 months later...

Who would you vote for?

Allinall · 18-09-2020 04:44PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So it's the pubs fault they didn't open?

No.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 04:52PM

The Cabinet has agreed to NPHET's recommendations to tighten the restrictions on Dublin to Level 3 and to ban indoor dining in the capital.

The restrictions will be in place from midnight tonight for the next three weeks.

There is expected to be an exception for weddings this weekend.

3rd of October. It will be huge.

Spanish Eyes · 18-09-2020 04:53PM

Nothing different here, nor for most observants.

It is the mavericks and rebels that are the cause of this. Idiots.

dubdaymo · 18-09-2020 04:55PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-nphet-recommends-ban-on-indoor-dining-in-dublin-1.4357279

Who is running the country?? The Government or NPHET? The Government need to seriously reel in NPHET and their 'leaks' / multiple interviews to the press / multiple push notifications from media coming from NPHET - acting as if what they say goes. They are acting as if they are the ultimate authority, and the Government meeting today is just to rubber stamp this.
I did not vote for NPHET or a Covid only approach to everything in Ireland from here on out and I won't accept it. If Míchael Martin and FF are so weak they cannot make a collective decision focusing on the widespread detrimental effects of these upcoming restrictions, then general election is needed now. We cannot allow ourselves to be run into the ground by a bunch of well-paid doctors sitting on advisory boards, and the cohort of nutty professors that appear on all media platforms daily....
How can anyone justify the HSE doctor's (Dr Martin Feeley) sacking just because he expressed a different opinion when we seem to be run with a Covid only focus 6 months later...

This is what happens when you hand over control of your country's affairs to blinkered "scientists" of all kinds with agendas and self-designed flawed crystal balls.

Assetbacked · 18-09-2020 04:59PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Nothing different here, nor for most observants.

It is the mavericks and rebels that are the cause of this. Idiots.

Like Philip Nolan himself who contracted it and was in a restaurant in the last week?

DangerScouse · 18-09-2020 05:08PM

Good to see health still comes before wealth.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 05:08PM

Unbelievable.

This is absolutely unbelievable.

We have just shut down an industry that employs 50,000 people in Dublin over "fears" of NPHET of increasing cases (that were ALWAYS GOING TO INCREASE BECAUSE BLOODY SCHOOLS HAVE RE OPENED), cases that have 1 thing in common - people are perfectly healthy.

M Martin has absolutely no back bone. Leo let him do this, he knows MM and FF are a dying horse with days numbered in politics.

How in the gods name can you do that when deaths with covid this month are that of road accidents in Ireland??? HOW? This is incomprehensible. And definitely last straw.

I predict 17-19% unemployment for 30 Sept btw. Every 5th person will be out of work in matter of weeks. Going from 400-600 euros per week to 250-300 euros per week for the 2nd time in 6 months will not keep seals happy clapping.

Charles Babbage · 18-09-2020 05:09PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Mmmmm. I wish.

As is the capital city might be in lockdown as early as 00.00 tonight. Davy will need to re do their forecast (but they are an optimistic bunch, probably go with -2% :pac:)

The capital city is not in "lockdown", although measures will have been increased. Most employment is continuing and of course Dublin isn't the whole country.

Whether it ends up as 2% or 2.5% doesn't change the argument, although it might have adverse effects on certain sectors.

Plumbthedepths · 18-09-2020 05:10PM

DangerScouse wrote: »

Good to see health still comes before wealth.

Both are not mutually exclusive.

18-09-2020 05:11PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Unbelievable.

This is absolutely unbelievable.

We have just shut down an industry that employs 50,000 people in Dublin over "fears" of NPHET of increasing cases (that were ALWAYS GOING TO INCREASE BECAUSE BLOODY SCHOOLS HAVE RE OPENED), cases that have 1 thing in common - people are perfectly healthy.

M Martin has absolutely no back bone. Leo let him do this, he knows MM and FF are a dying horse with days numbered in politics.

How in the gods name can you do that when deaths with covid this month are that of road accidents in Ireland??? HOW? This is incomprehensible. And definitely last straw.

I predict 17-19% unemployment for 30 Sept btw. Every 5th person will be out of work in matter of weeks. Going from 400-600 euros per week to 250-300 euros per week for the 2nd time in 6 months will not keep seals happy clapping.

We are in track for 5000 cases a day in Dublin by mid October, it’s not half strict enough they are going with the regulations. Should be level 4 if not 5.

They badly need to give Gardai powers to break up house parties and heavily fine all in attendance also.

alentejo · 18-09-2020 05:14PM

I work in central Dublin. There are lots of construction workers near where I work. They go into cafes and eat. Next week, they will be eating literally on the street come all weathers.

Should cafes be allowed to open during office work hours!

Plumbthedepths · 18-09-2020 05:15PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

We are in track for 5000 cases a day in Dublin by mid October, it’s not half strict enough they are going with the regulations. Should be level 4 if not 5.

They badly need to give Gardai powers to break up house parties and heavily fine all in attendance also.

5000 cases a day? What are you using to arrive at this claim.

Giving Garda powers to enter private dwellings to break up parties won't happen. There's a small matter of the Constitution.

stephenjmcd · 18-09-2020 05:16PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

5000 cases a day? What are you using to arrive at this claim.

Giving Garda powers to enter private dwellings to break up parties won't happen. There's a small matter of the Constitution.

Hes using McConkeys predictions, none of the previous ones have stood up

Charles Babbage · 18-09-2020 05:17PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

How in the gods name can you do that when deaths with covid this month are that of road accidents in Ireland??? HOW? This is incomprehensible. And definitely last straw.

But it is not the deaths this month that is important it is the deaths that are to come.

What exactly do you think they should do about a growing trend?

I predict 17-19% unemployment for 30 Sept btw. Every 5th person will be out of work in matter of weeks. Going from 400-600 euros per week to 250-300 euros per week for the 2nd time in 6 months will not keep seals happy clapping.

Ireland had this type of unemployment for years on end in the past, it isn't ideal but neither is it the end of society. This episode will be much shorter in duration.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 05:18PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

We are in track for 5000 cases a day in Dublin by mid October, it’s not half strict enough they are going with the regulations. Should be level 4 if not 5.

They badly need to give Gardai powers to break up house parties and heavily fine all in attendance also.

Like Sweden was on track for 96,000 + dead by June?

Whatever you say, today government has locked down capital city of our country over fears of increasing number of cases. More people died in road accidents since 1 August than with covid-19. That is the bottom line.

18-09-2020 05:18PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Jesus, the media are having a field day with covid this morning. It's like they're expecting the sky to fall in. Having politicians rely on advisors who have tentacles in lobbying and the media is just a toxic mix as it creates a bubble. Nothing more evident of this toxicity than the covid hysteria. So many articles on it each day, you'd be forgiven for thinking there is a huge crisis here.

By way of reminder based on latest data. Since lockdown ended and we began reopening 17 weeks ago, we are now looking at an annual death rate of 679 "with" covid. 94% of those that died with covid had clinical underlying conditions and 93% were over the age of 65. 75% of cases are under the age of 65. It's not to say it isn't harmful but putting in the context of severely restricting social lives and the economy for something that isn't that harmful, even without a vaccine, is hysterical, illogical and tragic.

You'll be shocked when you find out how HIV and influenza kill people

Plumbthedepths · 18-09-2020 05:20PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Hes using McConkeys predictions, none of the previous ones have stood up

Thought McConkey's latest claim was 10,000?

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 05:21PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

But it is not the deaths this month that is important it is the deaths that are to come.

Our government is making decisions that affect over 1 million of people based on predictions?

I thought this isnt a new virus. This happened back in March, remember? When we didnt have PPE. When Simon Harris didnt know why its called covid-19 and thought that there were 1-18 covids beforehand?

I would do what Sweden have done. That is what we SHOULD have done from the very beginning, especially considering that we are an island nation.

dalyboy · 18-09-2020 05:22PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

We are in track for 5000 cases a day in Dublin by mid October, it’s not half strict enough they are going with the regulations. Should be level 4 if not 5.

They badly need to give Gardai powers to break up house parties and heavily fine all in attendance also.

5000 ?Hopefully.That’s great then , we are closer to herd immunity (which every country in the world will eventually adapt after seeing the success of Sweden)

Now , shield up the vulnerable people for a few months and the rest of the country (80% of the citizens) get back to work and normal living.
Problem solved .

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings