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Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

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    #2402
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    KCross wrote: »
    Yea, things like... Two EV's, Upgrade of heating to a heat pump, electric showers etc

    Your current supply is probably 60A. An EV will be using 32A of that for several hours. Bumping the supply up to 80A gives you more wriggle room but not absolutely necessary, but if he is pulling a new cable anyway why not have it future proofed.... if its not much different in price.

    What's max current carrying capacity for 16sq?


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    #2403
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Felexicon wrote: »
    What's max current carrying capacity for 16sq?

    Arent you a spark, no?

    25mm² is what is usually recommended for the enhanced ESB supply for 16kVA. Its what I have.


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    #2404
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    sekond wrote: »
    House is late 70s, fusebox that was done in the last 10 years or so (before we moved in).

    Looking at the quote I was given it seems it needs
    - mains upgrade to 16sq-something
    - new earth for that cable
    - a cable into the hot press? and connecting to the boiler
    - new earth rod and cable to that.

    We've no problem getting it done if it's needed, it's just very frustrating that we could have been getting it done while waiting for the charger, but they didn't survey until today when he was due to install. (And I'm not sure there are any questions they could have asked me in advance that would have meant they would have known in advance)

    We had to do similar, ran all the cables internally ourselves (underneath floorboards upstairs) and had sparks do all the connecting. Actual cable was cheap (5-10 e per m)


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    #2405
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Alkers wrote: »
    We had to do similar, ran all the cables internally ourselves (underneath floorboards upstairs) and had sparks do all the connecting. Actual cable was cheap (5-10 e per m)
    You shouldn't be running the cables.

    These are Restricted Electrical Works and should only be carried out by a RECI contractor.


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    #2406
    eoferrall
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭eoferrall


    Cyrus wrote: »
    if you want the grant itll have to come from the main board.

    if you dont im sure you can find someone to do it the way you want.

    not true, i got the grant and the installer installed a new fuseboard and made the one in the middle of the house a secondary one. so the charger comes off the main board.


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    #2407
    Repolho
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭Repolho


    Any places that sell chargers on their own without installation? Any of the sites that i am getting on a google search are for supply & install but I'm having my own electrician do the install so just looking to buy the unit.


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    #2408
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,874 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Repolho wrote: »
    Any places that sell chargers on their own without installation? Any of the sites that i am getting on a google search are for supply & install but I'm having my own electrician do the install so just looking to buy the unit.

    If you go to the manufacturers page they often sell them, EO, Zappi and Wallbox to name a few

    You can also search on eBay or Amazon

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2409
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Repolho wrote: »
    Any places that sell chargers on their own without installation? Any of the sites that i am getting on a google search are for supply & install but I'm having my own electrician do the install so just looking to buy the unit.
    Have not had any dealings with them, so not a recommendation but https://midsummer.ie/ seems to sell Zappi and EO units.


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    #2410
    kieran.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭kieran.


    Repolho wrote: »
    Any places that sell chargers on their own without installation? Any of the sites that i am getting on a google search are for supply & install but I'm having my own electrician do the install so just looking to buy the unit.


    I bought here https://www.bhcdistributors.co.uk/index.php/products/electric-vehicles-3/zappi-type2.html €610+vat


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    #2411
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    eoferrall wrote: »
    not true, i got the grant and the installer installed a new fuseboard and made the one in the middle of the house a secondary one. so the charger comes off the main board.

    So it’s coming off the main board ?


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    #2412
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Finally got our grant in our account today, no correspondence as of yet.


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    #2413
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    kieran. wrote: »
    zappi-type2[/url] €610+vat

    €732 - I presume that's a good price for this charge point?

    The anorak in me, few quick sums:

    Average EV owner, driving 15,000kms per year, charging at home on night rate electricity @ 7.7c/kWh.

    They will pay 40% more for each unit, so almost 11c/kWh, for 10 years, to recover that €732 :eek:.
    Double that if they pay the same for install, so a 20 year payback, or 10 years if paying 80% more for electricity.

    A €200 charge point supplies the exact same electrons to your car - these are mainly just 32a outdoor sockets.

    Get a Zappi if you've solar PV, or you prefer the look of it or like gadgets/apps etc.

    If you don't, save some money :).


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    #2414
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    You shouldn't be running the cables.

    These are Restricted Electrical Works and should only be carried out by a RECI contractor.

    Anybody can run cables.
    It’s work around the consumer unit that needs a safe electric registered sparks.


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    #2415
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Kramer wrote: »
    €732 - I presume that's a good price for this charge point?

    The anorak in me, few quick sums:

    Average EV owner, driving 15,000kms per year, charging at home on night rate electricity @ 7.7c/kWh.

    They will pay 40% more for each unit, so almost 11c/kWh, for 10 years, to recover that €732 :eek:.
    Double that if they pay the same for install, so a 20 year payback, or 10 years if paying 80% more for electricity.

    A €200 charge point supplies the exact same electrons to your car - these are mainly just 32a outdoor sockets.

    Get a Zappi if you've solar PV, or you prefer the look of it or like gadgets/apps etc.

    If you don't, save some money :).

    I done that :)
    Bought my ABL unit second hand for €200 on the Facebook group and spent €80 fitting it and then €100 getting it certified by a local sparks.

    Then sold it 2 years later for €275.
    Bought a bmw wallbox on DoneDeal for €250 and sold that recently for €300.

    A small unknown is that EV chargers have gone up in value second hand. Supply and demand. I remember seeing EV charger for €150 give or take. Now, nothing sells for less than €300 ish

    I now use my Tesla UMC that came with the car and a 32a commando connector that comes with the UMC. I get the same 7kw charging at home and I’ll keep the charger funds in a Revolut vault in case I need to buy a charger in the future :D


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    #2416
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    When ESB were giving them away they were cheap, now that there is a grant for €600 they became expensive, hmm, I wonder what the correlation is?


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    #2417
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Anybody can run cables.
    It’s work around the consumer unit that needs a safe electric registered sparks.

    Exactly, I didn't connect anything, only fed the cables through the house and left the two ends exposed.


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    #2418
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,874 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    liamog wrote: »
    When ESB were giving them away they were cheap, now that there is a grant for €600 they became expensive, hmm, I wonder what the correlation is?


    The wonders of capitalism :rolleyes:

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2419
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Anybody can run cables.
    It’s work around the consumer unit that needs a safe electric registered sparks.

    There are two aspects to it....

    - If the electrician who is signing it off hasnt eyeballed the cable that you ran how does he know you havent tapped that cable off another spur or have joiners or mounted it in a dangerous way, is it inside insulation or not etc. If he can see the full run of the cable then there shouldnt be a problem.

    - Its just a way for an electician to say he wants the entire job and not be turning up for you to expect him to ask for just €50 for his work! ;)


    I'm not agreeing/disagreeing with any of the above, just explaining the rationale.


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    #2420
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    KCross wrote: »
    There are two aspects to it....

    - If the electrician who is signing it off hasnt eyeballed the cable that you ran how does he know you havent tapped that cable off another spur or have joiners or mounted it in a dangerous way, is it inside insulation or not etc. If he can see the full run of the cable then there shouldnt be a problem.

    - Its just a way for an electician to say he wants the entire job and not be turning up for you to expect him to ask for just €50 for his work! ;)


    I'm not agreeing/disagreeing with any of the above, just explaining the rationale.

    Aye thats the problem. 99% of the lads, like myself, who run the cables have a dicky bird what they are doing and understand it, but all it takes is one lad and he will bring a whole world of hell onto the house.
    Though the spark should also carry the responsibility as they are signing off on it too remember.


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    #2421
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Anybody can run cables.
    It’s work around the consumer unit that needs a safe electric registered sparks.
    Absolutely incorrect. Any and all Restricted Works MUST by law only be carried out by a RECI member. Nowhere is the running of cables stated to be excluded from this legislation, which would result in the commission of a crime were it ignored.


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    #2422
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Alkers wrote: »
    Exactly, I didn't connect anything, only fed the cables through the house and left the two ends exposed.
    Not "exactly" at all.

    You broke the law, pure and simple.


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    #2423
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Not "exactly" at all.

    You broke the law, pure and simple.

    I bet he wasn't wearing a mask at the time either - lock him up :rolleyes:.

    By that logic, unwinding my vacuum cable makes me a criminal!

    Electricians are taking the p1ss with these €700+, 2 hour "charger" installs. It's the new gold rush.
    Sure if you can afford a €60,000+ Tesla, you can well afford a €2k charger, aren't the gubbermint even paying €600 - that's cream for me!!!


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    #2424
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Unwinding a vacuum cable isn't the same thing at all.

    As I'm sure you know.


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    #2425
    eoferrall
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭eoferrall


    Cyrus wrote: »
    So it’s coming off the main board ?

    exactly, the main board is the new board.

    that is my understanding of the set up that the company explained to me. I checked with ESB and they had no issue with them connecting the tails to the new one, and also I rang Safe electric, who wouldn't give me a specific answer as I was not a registered electrcian so they could not give me formal advise, but they did say in general what I had described didn't appear to be unreasonable, but if I rang back with the electrician there they could give more of an answer.

    but the two responses where enough for me to give go ahead to have work done.


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    #2426
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Absolutely incorrect. Any and all Restricted Works MUST by law only be carried out by a RECI member. Nowhere is the running of cables stated to be excluded from this legislation, which would result in the commission of a crime were it ignored.
    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Not "exactly" at all.

    You broke the law, pure and simple.

    There you go. SI 264 of 2013.
    Definition of Restricted Electrical Works


    in a Domestic Property.

    Restricted Electrical Works does not include:

    Minor electrical works which include very small works such as like-for-like replacements (e.g. switches), moving light fittings without affecting the circuit and adding a socket to an existing circuit.

    So your telling me I can add sockets, replace switches, but I cant run a cable and leave open at both ends as it’s against the law. The mind boggles at times.


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    #2427
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Kramer wrote: »
    I bet he wasn't wearing a mask at the time either - lock him up :rolleyes:.

    By that logic, unwinding my vacuum cable makes me a criminal!

    Electricians are taking the p1ss with these €700+, 2 hour "charger" installs. It's the new gold rush.
    Sure if you can afford a €60,000+ Tesla, you can well afford a €2k charger, aren't the gubbermint even paying €600 - that's cream for me!!!

    Who is charging €700 for an install? And who is paying it.


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    #2428
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Who is charging €700 for an install? And who is paying it.

    Unfortunately that is happening. Examples are on this thread. The grant is being creamed off by some electricians.... no two ways about it.


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    #2429
    emmetlego
    Registered Users Posts: 4,643 ✭✭✭emmetlego


    Rip off trades people in Ireland is hardly breaking news. Electricians are no different.


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    #2430
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Who is charging €700 for an install? And who is paying it.

    €1600 a guy on Facebook got quoted today for a zappi install.
    Rang another guy, €1200.

    For a glorified external socket.


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    #2431
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Who is charging €700 for an install?

    I'm not going to put an electrician's name up here now, am I?
    Felexicon wrote: »
    And who is paying it.

    People who don't know any better :D.


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