Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

rx8

eagerv wrote: »

You will be able to program charge the ID.3 from the car, it's just not there yet.(As far as I can see).
But you can set it to a limit atm so it's just a matter of plugging in your car after 23:00 (GMT) to avail of night rates and setting it to charge to 80% or whatever.

Night rate at the moment is midnight to 9am just so there's no confusion as we are still in BST.

Gael23

ESB seem to be charging €499 now instead of €199. What charger are they using?

Electric Nitwit

Hi all,

apologies in advance, this is probably a very basic question but reading back through this thread I can't quite work out the answer

We're buying a new build house with a private driveway, and I'm hoping to have the opportunity to get a few additional things done by the electrician when it's being wired. One thing I'd like is the wiring to the front of the house so that I can install a charge point in the future. We don't have an EV but I assume we will in a few years. What should I ask for?

Reading back I think maybe 25mm wiring with an isolator switch will be fairly future proof, is that right?

And I can't work out how universal the charge points are/will be. Should I get one installed now? Or just have the wiring ready and install one when we actually get a car? (I'd assume it would be a very standard car, I doubt we'll be getting a tesla or anything like that)

Thanks in advance for any help, sorry if they're stupid questions but I'm really clueless here, despite some good googling

KCross

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

Hi all,

apologies in advance, this is probably a very basic question but reading back through this thread I can't quite work out the answer

We're buying a new build house with a private driveway, and I'm hoping to have the opportunity to get a few additional things done by the electrician when it's being wired. One thing I'd like is the wiring to the front of the house so that I can install a charge point in the future. We don't have an EV but I assume we will in a few years. What should I ask for?

Reading back I think maybe 25mm wiring with an isolator switch will be fairly future proof, is that right?

And I can't work out how universal the charge points are/will be. Should I get one installed now? Or just have the wiring ready and install one when we actually get a car? (I'd assume it would be a very standard car, I doubt we'll be getting a tesla or anything like that)

Thanks in advance for any help, sorry if they're stupid questions but I'm really clueless here, despite some good googling

Just ask for..... "An external socket on a dedicated 40A circuit". Put it in the location where you would be putting the charge point and you can just use that socket in the meantime for hoovering the car, power washers etc.

Since you dont have an EV yet there is no point in putting in a charge point as you wont get the grant for it. Just put in a standard 3 pin socket and when the time comes you can simply take that socket off the wall and put up the charge point without needing to run new cables or drill walls etc.

The key thing is that its a dedicated circuit and supports 40A.

Electric Nitwit

KCross wrote: »

Just ask for..... "An external socket on a dedicated 40A circuit". Put it in the location where you would be putting the charge point and you can just use that socket in the meantime for hoovering the car, power washers etc.

Since you dont have an EV yet there is no point in putting in a charge point as you wont get the grant for it. Just put in a standard 3 pin socket and when the time comes you can simply take that socket off the wall and put up the charge point without needing to run new cables or drill walls etc.

The key thing is that its a dedicated circuit and supports 40A.

Thanks KCross, that's exactly the simple answer I was hoping for, appreciate it

I see you said this before about getting 25mm² wiring, is that something you'd recommend for me too?

KCross wrote: »

Thats going to be an issue for alot of people installing EV charge points in "old" houses. The wiring has to be brought up to current standards for earthing.

Having said that.... if he is putting in a 16mm² mains cable (aka "tails") I'd pay a few extra quid and get it upgraded to 25mm². Its just one cable and the cost difference shouldnt be much and it will allow you at some point in the future to increase the max amps you are allowed pull into the house from 60 to 80. You will have to pay extra for that at the time but at least you wont have to pay for that cable upgrade a second time.

Its worth asking the question anyway... i.e. get a quote for 25mm² instead of 16mm² and see what the difference is.

the_amazing_raisin

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

Hi all,

apologies in advance, this is probably a very basic question but reading back through this thread I can't quite work out the answer

We're buying a new build house with a private driveway, and I'm hoping to have the opportunity to get a few additional things done by the electrician when it's being wired. One thing I'd like is the wiring to the front of the house so that I can install a charge point in the future. We don't have an EV but I assume we will in a few years. What should I ask for?

Reading back I think maybe 25mm wiring with an isolator switch will be fairly future proof, is that right?

And I can't work out how universal the charge points are/will be. Should I get one installed now? Or just have the wiring ready and install one when we actually get a car? (I'd assume it would be a very standard car, I doubt we'll be getting a tesla or anything like that)

Thanks in advance for any help, sorry if they're stupid questions but I'm really clueless here, despite some good googling

Basically what KCross said, although I would think a 32A circuit will handle it, since a 7kW charger will draw 32A


FYI, any works you do now will NOT be eligible for the SEAI grant as you need to have your grant letter before starting works and you won't get that unless you've ordered or bought an EV


So just get the wiring done for now would be my advice, charger plus install will likely come to the amount of the grant once the wiring is in place


I wouldn't bother with the isolator switch, once it has it's own fuse inside the house you're grand. There's nothing to isolate anyway without a charger installed


I'd take a bit of time to consider the charger location. Unfortunately there isn't much consensus among manufacturers as to where the charge point is located, here's the ones I know



Tesla - back left
VW - back right (where petrol cap would be on ICE car)
Kia/Nissan/Hyundai - Front or front left


So ideally you should try to position your charger where it's close to the charge port (typically most chargers have a 5m cable) and where it's out of the way of anyone walking up the driveway. This can take a bit of thinking so I'd try to picture different scenarios and whether you're happy needing to go forwards or reverse into the driveway depending on the car and charger location



If the driveway isn't finished yet, and if you're willing to spend more, you could route cables or conduit under the driveway to give you even more choices. That's probably going a bit far at this stage though

KCross

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

I see you said this before about getting 25mm² wiring, is that something you'd recommend for me too?

No, that was a different question. That was referring to the cable between your meter and your consumer unit.

For your charge point cable you'll likely need 6mm² cable. 10mm² to be sure.

It might also be worth asking for an additional "shielded twisted pair" cable to be run alongside it as alot of charge points now have the ability to monitor the electrical load of the house via a CT clamp and that is usually wired back to the charge point. Its cheap cable so wont add much to the cost.

Electric Nitwit

KCross, Cruisey, thanks a million. That's exactly what I needed to know. Really appreciate you taking the time to help me out

the_amazing_raisin

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

KCross, Cruisey, thanks a million. That's exactly what I needed to know. Really appreciate you taking the time to help me out

No worries, good luck with the house and make sure you keep the electrician on a short leash


Ideally write down EXACTLY what you want done and give the list to the electrician who will be doing the work (not the foreman).


We made some requests with our house and about half of them were done wrong :rolleyes:

Risteard81

KCross wrote: »

Just ask for..... "An external socket on a dedicated 40A circuit". Put it in the location where you would be putting the charge point and you can just use that socket in the meantime for hoovering the car, power washers etc.

Since you dont have an EV yet there is no point in putting in a charge point as you wont get the grant for it. Just put in a standard 3 pin socket and when the time comes you can simply take that socket off the wall and put up the charge point without needing to run new cables or drill walls etc.

The key thing is that its a dedicated circuit and supports 40A.

Nonsense.

Commando sockets come in 32A and 63A varieties. They do not come as 40A, so asking for a 40A socket-outlet would just get eyes rolled at you. A 32A commando socket will not be protected by a 40A protective device either.

Some manufacturers offer a dummy unit before the proper EVSE is fitted in the future.

There is also an entire Section of the Wiring Rules which an EVSE installation must comply with, so they are not the same as an ordinary socket-outlet.

graememk

Risteard81 wrote: »

Nonsense.

Commando sockets come in 32A and 63A varieties. They do not come as 40A, so asking for a 40A socket-outlet would just get eyes rolled at you. A 32A commando socket will not be protected by a 40A protective device either.

Some manufacturers offer a dummy unit before the proper EVSE is fitted in the future.

There is also an entire Section of the Wiring Rules which an EVSE installation must comply with, so they are not the same as an ordinary socket-outlet.

Right so what would you suggest?

If you got a 32amp commando installed outside (on a 6mm2 cable) on a 32amp breaker.

Then come evse install time the cable could be used and then evse installed according to regs and replace the 32 with a 40.

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

Right so what would you suggest?

If you got a 32amp commando installed outside (on a 6mm2 cable) on a 32amp breaker.

Then come evse install time the cable could be used and then evse installed according to regs and replace the 32 with a 40.

Why are we talking about 40 amp cables so much, are 9kW chargers a thing now?

I'd just have the electrician terminate the wire in a weatherproof terminal box. Hooking up a charger to that would be a breeze

liamog

I thought a 32A charging circuit needs to be designed with cables suitable for 40A due to the extend utilisation, something about an 80% constant load. I'm not an electrician so could be completely mistaken.
i know my charger is installed on a 40A breaker.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

I thought a 32A charging circuit needs to be designed with cables suitable for 40A due to the extend utilisation, something about an 80% constant load. I'm not an electrician so could be completely mistaken.
i know my charger is installed on a 40A breaker.

Well now I'm worried, mines on a 32A breaker. I think the cable is 6mm2 so at least that should be safe

KCross

Risteard81 wrote: »

Nonsense.

Commando sockets come in 32A and 63A varieties. They do not come as 40A, so asking for a 40A socket-outlet would just get eyes rolled at you. A 32A commando socket will not be protected by a 40A protective device either.

Some manufacturers offer a dummy unit before the proper EVSE is fitted in the future.

There is also an entire Section of the Wiring Rules which an EVSE installation must comply with, so they are not the same as an ordinary socket-outlet.

I didn’t mention commando socket. The primary goal here, and what I’m suggesting, is to have the correctly rated cable from the future EVSE point back to the consumer unit so that no difficult works are required at that later date.

The cable is the hardest bit of that and why I suggested a 40A supported cable.

Regulations around isolators etc can easily be done after.

If you have a better suggestion I’m interested to hear it. I don’t see the point of a dummy unit. Use it as a standard 3 pin socket until you’re ready for the EVSE with appropriate breaker.

Orebro

liamog wrote: »

I thought a 32A charging circuit needs to be designed with cables suitable for 40A due to the extend utilisation, something about an 80% constant load. I'm not an electrician so could be completely mistaken.
i know my charger is installed on a 40A breaker.

Ditto.

By the way - I highly recommend an external socket as KCross mentions - I recently had issues with my charge point, I was able to unplug and simply remove from wall myself to take away for troubleshooting - not so easily done if it's hardwired to the house. Will also make it very simple to replace the unit if I ever need to.

Gumbo

Risteard81 wrote: »

Nonsense.

Commando sockets come in 32A and 63A varieties. They do not come as 40A, so asking for a 40A socket-outlet would just get eyes rolled at you. A 32A commando socket will not be protected by a 40A protective device either.

Some manufacturers offer a dummy unit before the proper EVSE is fitted in the future.

There is also an entire Section of the Wiring Rules which an EVSE installation must comply with, so they are not the same as an ordinary socket-outlet.

I have a 32a commando socket in my garage.
It’s connected by 6mm sq. cable back to the fuse board with a 40a RCBO.
I charge my car using it as it came with a 32a commando plug which charges at 7kw.

Am I in danger?

Gumbo

Orebro wrote: »

Ditto.

By the way - I highly recommend an external socket as KCross mentions - I recently had issues with my charge point, I was able to unplug and simply remove from wall myself to take away for troubleshooting - not so easily done if it's hardwired to the house. Will also make it very simple to replace the unit if I ever need to.

+1
I’m on my 3rd charger now at this stage
And I’ve been able to isolate and remove each one myself along the way.

Chumpski

Orebro wrote: »

Ditto.

By the way - I highly recommend an external socket as KCross mentions - I recently had issues with my charge point, I was able to unplug and simply remove from wall myself to take away for troubleshooting - not so easily done if it's hardwired to the house. Will also make it very simple to replace the unit if I ever need to.

What do you mean by an external socket? Happen to have a picture?

Gumbo

Chumpski wrote: »

What do you mean by an external socket? Happen to have a picture?

A plug socket that’s rated for outdoor use.
It’s sealed and IP rated.

Just google external socket.

Electric Nitwit

Gumbo wrote: »

A plug socket that’s rated for outdoor use.
It’s sealed and IP rated.

Just google external socket.

So your charge point just runs to a standard 3 pin plug, which is plugged into a standard external socket? That does sound very handy for maintenance and possible future upgrade

Gumbo

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

So your charge point just runs to a standard 3 pin plug, which is plugged into a standard external socket? That does sound very handy for maintenance and possible future upgrade

No.

The previous posts are in relation to getting the wiring and rcbo in place now (say during renovations or similar) so that you can add the charger later.
The hardest part of installing a a charger is running the cable from the fuse board to the external charge point location, especially if it’s on the opposite side of the house. You don’t want to run cables along ceilings, or have to try bury them in a finished house.

You’d then remove the outdoor socket and wire the 6mm cable directly into the charge point then.

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

I have a 32a commando socket in my garage.
It’s connected by 6mm sq. cable back to the fuse board with a 40a RCBO.

It shouldn't be.

The only real exception to this general rule is multiple 16A commando sockets, which can be supplied by a 20A device.

But a 32A commando socket should be protected by a 32A device.

Also, as I pointed out, there are many rules specific to an EVSE which do not apply to socket-outlets generally, including around the type of RCD which must be used and all of the rest of Section 722.

Gumbo

Risteard81 wrote: »

It shouldn't be.

The only real exception to this general rule is multiple 16A commando sockets, which can be supplied by a 20A device.

But a 32A commando socket should be protected by a 32A device.

Also, as I pointed out, there are many rules specific to an EVSE which do not apply to socket-outlets generally, including around the type of RCD which must be used and all of the rest of Section 722.

So the factory Tesla set up is against the law?

Glad they can’t enforce the new regulations of 10101 retrospectively.

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

So the factory Tesla set up is against the law?

Glad they can’t enforce the new regulations of 10101 retrospectively.

ET101 has an identical Section 722.

Gael23

If you are into tech stuff and having an app for your charger where would you go?

Gumbo

Risteard81 wrote: »

ET101 has an identical Section 722.

So what should the set up be?
And why does the attached set up not comply?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=527747&d=1601326923

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

So what should the set up be?
And why does the attached set up not comply?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=527747&d=1601326923

It would depend on how the commando socket-outlet is connected. If it is on a Type AC RCD, or one which does not break all live conductors, then it wouldn't comply.


If it is on a Type A RCD then, should there not be 6mA DC leakage detection within this unit, then it wouldn't comply.


Etcetera.

Kramer

Risteard81 wrote: »

It would depend on how the commando socket-outlet is connected.

Are you saying whether the socket complies or not, would depend on what's plugged into it?

Gumbo

Kramer wrote: »

Are you saying whether the socket complies or not, would depend on what's plugged into it?

I’ve no,idea why he’s saying either!
I have the socket as recommended by Tesla connected to the wiring as recommended connected back to the CU with a 40a RCBO.

I just plug the factory supplied Tesla granny cable into it and I get 7kw home charging. Perfect set up. The wiring, socket etc are all under cover inside a side garage/shed so,not external and exposed to the elements.