Masks

patnor1011 · 06-09-2020 11:15pm

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Seanergy wrote: »

Nope, wasn't.

Plenty of science supporting bubble living btw, why do youy think we embraced a lockdown? It's No.1 in the WHO NPI playbook.

Plenty of science are against bubble living. That and our obsession with hygiene gave us massive rise of allergies for example.

CBear1993 · 06-09-2020 11:17pm

Diarmuid wrote: »

Just posting this anecdote here. On hols in Italy at the moment. Piémonte to be precise. With regard to mask wearing,

On the street I reckon
20% wear a mask
60% wear a mask on their elbow or less frequently on their chin
20% don't wear a mask

In shops, all wear masks

Restaurants and bars are pretty much back to normal apart from the fact that the waiters wear masks all the time

This is in a location with pretty much no foreign holiday makers

If I was your wife/partner/company right now I’d put your face through your phone screen for being on boards while in Italy on “holiday”.

Jesus man put the phone away and be in the present. Enjoy yourself while you can. Are you on holiday or investigating

Graham · 06-09-2020 11:18pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are probably the same joke as homemade face masks

Has there been a new scientific study that shows fabrics sewn together at home lose the ability to absorb droplets?

Or something else?

cryptocurrency · 06-09-2020 11:29pm

how about everyone who wants to wear a mask, wears one and those who don't, don't. If someone wants to put a bucket on their head then let them.

Loafing Oaf · 06-09-2020 11:31pm

No: I don't care enough

patnor1011 wrote: »

Every dunnes till and cashier are pretty much covered with plexi glass. Much more protected than any other shopper walking the shop with visor on.

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are probably the same joke as homemade face masks or visors.

Well which is it?

patnor1011 · 06-09-2020 11:31pm

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Graham wrote: »

Has there been a new scientific study that shows fabrics sewn together at home lose the ability to absorb droplets?

Or something else?

I do not know. Probably the same study as the one finding that plexi glass let the virus through.

I am not against masks as I stated time and again. Everyone who can probably should wear it if they feel that they are in a place where they may get infected.
I am against mask-nazism. Some people do not have other goal in their life than to moan about how everyone should have them everywhere. Next topic will be setting up committees of mask experts who will have power to decide who is disabled enough to not to be required to wear one.

patnor1011 · 06-09-2020 11:35pm

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well which is it?

According to posters here all of it.
By the way you joined two different posts relating to different quotes and topics. By doing so it appears as opposite argument when it is just joined out of context.

To me honestly, I do not care. If someone feels like mask or visor or bubble it is his choice. However extremisn or fanaticism always make me uneasy. People who shout that nobody should wear mask are pretty much the same nutters as people who shout that everyone should have one everywhere he moves.

saabsaab · 06-09-2020 11:37pm

Yes: homemade

patnor1011 wrote: »

I do not know. Probably the same study as the one finding that plexi glass let the virus through.

I am not against masks as I stated time and again. Everyone who can probably should wear it if they feel that they are in a place where they may get infected.
I am against mask-nazism. Some people do not have other goal in their life than to moan about how everyone should have them everywhere. Next topic will be setting up committees of mask experts who will have power to decide who is disabled enough to not to be required to wear one.

There is. Doctors can issue a letter to those affected.

Graham · 06-09-2020 11:40pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

However extremisn or fanaticism always make me uneasy.

same here.

Fortunately that's nothing to do with the public health reasons for wearing a mask however much some people pretend.

Hand in Your Pants · 06-09-2020 11:40pm

Anti-maskers are selfish morans. Sure don't wear your mask but you don't get leave your house, all kids to get jab before going to school otherwise we take them off you, track these morans and publically shame them, bring in curfew if necessary, at the end of the day these morans are spreading the disease through sheer ignorance and low iqs

patnor1011 · 06-09-2020 11:46pm

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

saabsaab wrote: »

There is. Doctors can issue a letter to those affected.

So you think that they should be handing that letter to read to anyone who may be concerned that they do not wear a mask? Like security, cashiers perhaps concerned members of public? People with disabilities maybe do not want other people to know about them.

Why not to put some better marker on them so they are recognized from distance and safely avoided.

There was a time before when this happened. First it was papers then for better convenience they got yellow star. Usually SS issued these. History repeats itself it seems.

Graham · 06-09-2020 11:48pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

So you think that they should be handing that letter to read to anyone who may be concerned that they do not wear a mask?

Yes

At least to anyone controlling entry to public transport or a premises.

patnor1011 · 06-09-2020 11:51pm

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

Anti-maskers are selfish morans. Sure don't wear your mask but you don't get leave your house, all kids to get jab before going to school otherwise we take them off you, track these morans and publically shame them, bring in curfew if necessary, at the end of the day these morans are spreading the disease through sheer ignorance and low iqs

You just come here to stirr the pot. Nothing to add to discussion other than substantial meal induced rambling. There is conspiracy theory section where you will be more suited to post. Posts like this and here, better to be ignored.

patnor1011 · 06-09-2020 11:54pm

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Graham wrote: »

Yes

At least to anyone controlling entry to public transport or a premises.

That is a little problematic due to confidentiality. Average Joe, Jerzy or Hassan doing static door security is not trained to handle data safely. Then again as I said people do not want to advertise exact nature of their disability. I know I do not want to.

Perhaps I can talk to my GP to write to me single line paper something like that "Holder of this letter is exempt from wearing a mask" as I do not have need to advertise my name or address to strangers at the door. I have no rpoblem with that yet I am afraid that this will not be enough to some hardcore pro mask activist we have here.

Graham · 06-09-2020 11:56pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

That is a little problematic due to confidentiality.

Not a problem.

Show the letter, allowed access.

Loafing Oaf · 07-09-2020 12:03am

No: I don't care enough

patnor1011 wrote: »

You just come here to stirr the pot. Nothing to add to discussion other than substantial meal induced rambling.

I suspect he does, but not in the way you think. Here are a couple of his posts from a few weeks ago:

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

A middle aged woman I know collapsed recently. Ambulance was called, treatment given, after investigation paramedics said cause for losing consciousness was surgical mask.

But maybe some randomer on the internet knows more than health care professionals lol

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

His right not to wear a mask absolutely trumps your 'right to live' as you call it. Your responsibility to protect yourself on the basis of your particular understanding of the virus, your understanding of the nature of transmission, and your understanding of the efficacy of masks is your business alone. Otherwise we would all be subject all of the time to the whims of hypochondriacs everywhere.

A paddygreen minus the wit perhaps?

RoYoBo · 07-09-2020 12:30am

Yes: valved

There is no need for any letter of dispensation to include confidential information about an illness or a disability. All it requires is a doctor's statement that X is exempt from wearing a mask.

After all, if you aren't wearing a mask, that's a statement all of its own surely? By going mask-less, you are clearly declaring that you are exempt for one of the accepted reasons.

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 1:15am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I suspect he does, but not in the way you think. Here are a couple of his posts from a few weeks ago:

A paddygreen minus the wit perhaps?

It is like politics. We can argue what is better left or right but truth most likely sit somewhere in the middle. On the other hand there is no point to argue about extreme right or extreme left as they both are evil.
Extreme pro or anti masks are the same. Argued for by lunatics who sadly think that they do it for the benefit of everyone.

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 1:20am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

RoYoBo wrote: »

There is no need for any letter of dispensation to include confidential information about an illness or a disability. All it requires is a doctor's statement that X is exempt from wearing a mask.

After all, if you aren't wearing a mask, that's a statement all of its own surely? By going mask-less, you are clearly declaring that you are exempt for one of the accepted reasons.

I know, right? Yet some of the posters here do not think that is enough and demand proof or something. They think that if you are not able to prove that mask will actually kill you they are ready to accuse you that you are trying to kill them (or vulnerable and old people we all have duty to protect whether they want it or not).

joeguevara · 07-09-2020 2:36am

Was just thinking about the whole exemption issue and the amount of thought going into it and tHe talk about evidence and it’s nothing to do with that. Realistically it is simply a pro mask v anti mask debate.

Bare with me.

Firstly refusal is nothing to do with something real like race, religion or any of the rest.

It’s can I buy some Groceries with an open mouth or not, hardly Rosa Parks.

So let’s say you did have an documented disability but were also pro mask. You understand the issue but can prove it. Either you leave feeling annoyed but knowing they were genuinely concerned or you put the mask up to your nose walk in and pull it down and simply only put it close while paying and you will get away with it. No issue.

Or you have the same undocumented disability but we’re anti mask. So whether it’s true or not you were never going to wear it and whatever they say you will be opposed and never going to try and reasonably prove it.

So it’s dishonest to say that it’s about worried about the disability. You haven’t even attempted to comply.

joeguevara · 07-09-2020 2:38am

RoYoBo wrote: »

There is no need for any letter of dispensation to include confidential information about an illness or a disability. All it requires is a doctor's statement that X is exempt from wearing a mask.

After all, if you aren't wearing a mask, that's a statement all of its own surely? By going mask-less, you are clearly declaring that you are exempt for one of the accepted reasons.

Do you honestly think that. If you are maskless you could also be declaring I could try and reduce transmission but I don’t want to. And Fcuck you for questioning me, I am God. Or your one too.

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 6:19am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

joeguevara wrote: »

Was just thinking about the whole exemption issue and the amount of thought going into it and tHe talk about evidence and it’s nothing to do with that. Realistically it is simply a pro mask v anti mask debate.

Bare with me.

Firstly refusal is nothing to do with something real like race, religion or any of the rest.

It’s can I buy some Groceries with an open mouth or not, hardly Rosa Parks.

So let’s say you did have an documented disability but were also pro mask. You understand the issue but can prove it. Either you leave feeling annoyed but knowing they were genuinely concerned or you put the mask up to your nose walk in and pull it down and simply only put it close while paying and you will get away with it. No issue.

Or you have the same undocumented disability but we’re anti mask. So whether it’s true or not you were never going to wear it and whatever they say you will be opposed and never going to try and reasonably prove it.

So it’s dishonest to say that it’s about worried about the disability. You haven’t even attempted to comply.

You did not address your post but it is directly under mine so maybe you were talking about me. In case you did and if you have time you can check some of my older posts.
I am not pro or anti mask. I am just perhaps too worried about direction or what I perceive as direction to which we go with all of this. What I mean is that from no mask we went to masks in shops which is fine with me - I comply as wearing it for a few minutes I am there does not impact me in any meaningful way.
What worries me is more and more calls made by some people about masks in every place and some people even call for masks while outside. That will essentially put out and instantly identify every disabled person even those who try to lead what resemble normal life without advertising their disability to everyone around them. Not to mention possibility to further stigmatize them as some members of anti-mask or anti-vaxxers or just horrible people who do not care about vulnerable and old people.

If you talked to me then I do not accept your last line.

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 6:21am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

joeguevara wrote: »

Do you honestly think that. If you are maskless you could also be declaring I could try and reduce transmission but I don’t want to. And Fcuck you for questioning me, I am God. Or your one too.

And that is exactly what worries me. People are very quick in their judgement.

dwayneshintzy · 07-09-2020 6:27am

Yes: to protect myself and others

patnor1011 wrote: »

So you think that they should be handing that letter to read to anyone who may be concerned that they do not wear a mask? Like security, cashiers perhaps concerned members of public? People with disabilities maybe do not want other people to know about them.

Why not to put some better marker on them so they are recognized from distance and safely avoided.

There was a time before when this happened. First it was papers then for better convenience they got yellow star. Usually SS issued these. History repeats itself it seems.

So you're comparing compulsory mask wearing to the Holocaust?

joeguevara · 07-09-2020 6:52am

patnor1011 wrote: »

You did not address your post but it is directly under mine so maybe you were talking about me. In case you did and if you have time you can check some of my older posts.
I am not pro or anti mask. I am just perhaps too worried about direction or what I perceive as direction to which we go with all of this. What I mean is that from no mask we went to masks in shops which is fine with me - I comply as wearing it for a few minutes I am there does not impact me in any meaningful way.
What worries me is more and more calls made by some people about masks in every place and some people even call for masks while outside. That will essentially put out and instantly identify every disabled person even those who try to lead what resemble normal life without advertising their disability to everyone around them. Not to mention possibility to further stigmatize them as some members of anti-mask or anti-vaxxers or just horrible people who do not care about vulnerable and old people.

If you talked to me then I do not accept your last line.

I wasn’t directing that at you at all. It was an open ended thought of mine on how this could play out in reality with so much discussion on required documentation and what constitutes an exemption etc,

It was actually a completely separate issue that illustrates the problem. There was a thread of two elderly people who had requested an appointment with their GP that they had been with for 40 years. They had no response in 4 weeks and the request for appointment was for a current medical issue that was causing pain. It made me think that obviously a lot of GPS are time tabling the appointments based on seriousness of cases and due to the fact that they are obviously dealing with all sorts of emergencies, sickness concerns and ailments that if a request for a consultation to diagnose an issue simply to satisfy an exemption wouldn’t be on top of their list of worries. And that is even if they could provide a diagnosis, which more often than not requires a GP consultation followed by a referral to some sort of professional for the distress probably a mental health professional. So if as stricter people in posts above are stating, it could be weeks if not longer that that diagnostic evidence is available to the person.

So taken all of that into account and looking at the anti mask example with an actual exemption requirement, if it was me (definitely not anti mask) I doubt I’d go through all that hassle if I believed that I didn’t need to wear one in the first place.

So tne legislative requirement for face mask exemption Evidence has issues not only for the time taken to reCeive it but also, people who are against it in the first place more than likely won’t do it.

Now of course if you claim distress but for no underlying reason that’s easier as you can either state it’s your own reasonable belief or get something off someone like an employer or staff nurse (example) who sees it, but if not falling under a disability disgnosis there is no real comeback for refusal of entry, which was the reason for getting it in the first place.

It all depends on the number of people that will rely on the exemption so time will tell.

Apologies if it came across that I was saying anything negative about you,

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 7:02am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

So you're comparing compulsory mask wearing to the Holocaust?

No I am not. You are being quite simplistic and can not see the whole picture. There is a way to go from point A to get to point B. I am talking about that way.

dwayneshintzy · 07-09-2020 7:08am

Yes: to protect myself and others

patnor1011 wrote: »

No I am not. You are being quite simplistic and can not see the whole picture. There is a way to go from point A to get to point B. I am talking about that way.

OK, you referenced yellow stars and the SS. You compared it to our current situation, and said that history repeats itself.

What is that a reference to if not the Holocaust?

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 7:08am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

joeguevara wrote: »

Apologies if it came across that I was saying anything negative about you,

No apologies requested or required but it is nice to see people are able to discuss matters in civilized manner. I believe that we are discussing and while we may not agree on everything it is nice to keep talking and not insulting each other (that happens here quite often). Sometimes debate become quite heated but there is nothing wrong with that if we remain civil.
I apologize to you too for my thinking you may be talking about me.

patnor1011 · 07-09-2020 7:18am

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

OK, you referenced yellow stars and the SS. You compared it to our current situation, and said that history repeats itself.

What is that a reference to if not the Holocaust?

I thoutght I told you already. It is a reference on how easily we can get from point A to a B sometimes not realizing what B means while we take the journey. That B can surprise us all with unintended consequences.
It is a reference to a way how it all started and how easily it got out of hand. Kinda as it is happening now.
If you studied history you would know that germany population in fact were not privvy to the minute details of what is happening. Even nazis were in minority they just got their PR right and with help of nice, catchy slogans managed to take over whole country.
Antimasker, promasker, antivaxxer - the labeling already started with both sides demanding another to do what they think is "the right" way. Both using catchy phrases and quite ready not to accept anything other than their way.
We cant move forward unless there will be some compromise and middle ground which will satisfy most of the people. It will not satisfy everyone but such is the way how compromise works.

Away With The Fairies · 07-09-2020 7:32am

Yes: valved

I got to meet an anti-masker in real life. They asked me (like I was thick) to think logically, how is this spread and hand washing is the most important thing in stopping the spread. I told them that the virus doesn't leave the hands.

Well, I think it's very important to keep your distance from people like this to stop the spread and I very much can think logically and because of that, and because of the virus leaving a person's mouth and nose, I know that covering up is probably the most important thing.

I can't believe these people are actually out there.

Masks

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