Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

gifted · 03-09-2020 11:21am #1

When this pandemic first occurred NPHET were out and advising a lot of precautions which people actually took notice of....just recently I've noticed more and more people that I talk to are saying they're taking no more notice of NPHET as they just seem to be repeating the same warnings as before...hygiene...social distancing...etc....and just seem to be going through the motions now at these briefings they give.

Have they lost the attention of the people?

MyStubbleItches · 03-09-2020 11:28am

A lot of people might just be sick of listening to an unelected government wearing blinkers imposing draconian rules on them. Curtailing life and possibly doing more harm than good to the population at this stage. IMO.

road_high · 03-09-2020 11:30am

gifted wrote: »

When this pandemic first occurred NPHET were out and advising a lot of precautions which people actually took notice of....just recently I've noticed more and more people that I talk to are saying they're taking no more notice of NPHET as they just seem to be repeating the same warnings as before...hygiene...social distancing...etc....and just seem to be going through the motions now at these briefings they give.

Have they lost the attention of the people?

Stopped listening to them months ago. I find them extremely negative/hung up on childish scaremongering- always finger whagging and generally talking down to the populace. Sorry, I left school nearly two decades ago. Don't need that approach whcih I find all wrong.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2020 11:30am

Yes

When they had a prescribed goal and target it (flatten the curve, protect the health service) was easy to row in behind them ... especially with a roadmap to reopening.

Now, they have no tangible prescribed goal.... "suppress the virus" is not good enough.
They need to come out and show what specific level of contagion they want to target, and they need to let us, the people, determine if that's acceptable or not in the realisation of the effort to get there.

i have been absolutely flabbergasted at the level of surprise and concern from NPHET about the rise in the number of cases after the lockdown was lifted. The number of cases were always going to rise, in proportion to the level of reopening.
What exactly did they expect to happen?? no increase? if so, why woudl they expect that?

ElektroToad · 03-09-2020 11:36am

The NPHET are losing credibility imho.

At the start the message was clear and easy to understand: tight restrictions were imposed on society to "flatten the curve" and buy our health sector valuable time to face the unknown challenges ahead.

Now 6 months on, the message is confusing and contradictory. They say we must learn to "live with the virus" but that doesn't make sense when you consider the huge sectors of the economy are closed / operating as a shadow of their normal selves. That doesn't sound like "living with the virus" to me. It sounds more like "lets all hunker down and hope for the best"... There's no clear goal to work toward and so people are quite rightly a bit fed up with them now.

event · 03-09-2020 11:38am

NPHET arent. But the government are. They should be the ones pushing the message from NPHET and they are failing massively.

Hulk Hands · 03-09-2020 12:04pm

If they stayed on point then people would be listening as they were before. It's the ridiculous hypocrisies that has annoyed people, to the point that the public assumes they have no idea what they're doing.

No attendance at sporting events is a perfect example. We've had months of them telling us that outside with distancing is multiple times safer than indoors. We have very large grounds where distancing is easily achievable. The vast vast majority of other countries are allowing it. Yet our health service alone has the knowledge that its somehow unsafe, going against their previous outdoors advice

hmmm · 03-09-2020 12:07pm

I'm not sure why you are expecting public health to to change what they are saying.

Wash your hands
Keep your distance
Outdoor is better than indoor
Reduce contacts

It's all as relevant now as it was in March.

road_high · 03-09-2020 12:13pm

I found their recommendation to and of the Governemnt for rubber stamping it, the extra restrictions on outdoor/indoor sports and training/gyms extremely poor from a physical and mental health POV.
Both activities benefit people hugely in boosting people's immune systems and general health. But all they could see was "the virus". Locking at home doing nothing is very detrimental

sydthebeat · 03-09-2020 12:16pm

hmmm wrote: »

I'm not sure why you are expecting public health to to change what they are saying.

Wash your hands
Keep your distance
Outdoor is better than indoor
Reduce contacts

It's all as relevant now as it was in March.

no one at all has questioned the individual actions required.
These were required during lockdown, and are still required today.... and even after all this has passed they are still actions which are positive and should be continued.

Nothing at all to do with this thread though

Erranged · 03-09-2020 12:21pm

I'm tired of all the focus on daily numbers and the spin and fearmongering and the sheer number of different restrictions

hmmm · 03-09-2020 12:22pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nothing at all to do with this thread though

The OP said:

"I've noticed more and more people that I talk to are saying they're taking no more notice of NPHET as they just seem to be repeating the same warnings as before...hygiene...social distancing...etc"

DSN · 03-09-2020 12:37pm

People just weary of it. I think at the beginning we fell in behind with the message 'stay home' 'flatten the curve' and that was working seemed like there could be an end or some hope of back to normal by end this year.
Now it's just yep go back to work, school etc but no parties, socializing, travel or fun allowed! I totally understand why, its just people are looking ahead to winter months thinking F***, is this all I have to look forward to. Young people heading off to college one week a month, back with mammy & daddy then for the rest of the time, unable to head out for a night with friends without questioning, older people on their own dark winter nights, no cards, bridge, senior clubs. People in events, live entertainment, hospitality & tourism also not looking a a great few months ahead - I mean yeh we all lucky to be alive but honestly listening to nphet or the govt right now would tip you over the edge!

03-09-2020 12:38pm

Who would have thought that been expected to work for 40 hours a week while having the majority of social activities either closed or heavily restricted would have eventually led to huge unrest?

All for an illness that has killed around 0.035% of our population. And keeping in mind that we admitted that the tiny death rate is way overstated. And most of those deaths were people that were extremely ill already and likely to die very soon with or without Covid anyways.

It doesn't really help when you have the CMO on TV admitting that most of the cases in Kildare weren't even sick.

Dempo1 · 03-09-2020 12:47pm

No it hasn't but what is abundantly clear is the outrageous cynical underming of it by FG & independent TD"S, I can understand the independents parish pump politicking but FG are supposed to be in government, in particular Leo has been on a solo mission, not just to undermine NPHET but government policy, which he not only supported but introduced. Indeed his sudden interest in pubs reopening is beyond hypocrisy, it was him who closed them down. Every announcement or initiative he's announced in his new role has either backfired, misfired or just been dismissed, the oddest one being the staycation tax rebate.

To my mind the only organisation that has shown any consistency throughout this crisis and painful as it might be is NPHET.

Just watching Eamonn Ryan taking questions in the Dail, mother of God, why o why does any of his government colleagues think this is wise, absolutely dreadful and incoherent

03-09-2020 12:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And most of those deaths were people that were extremely ill already and likely to die very soon with or without Covid anyways.

Would genuinely like to know what source you got the "people that died from covid were going to die soon anyways" from?

What an awful attitude towards vulnerable people in our society. I'd hazard a guess that you don't fall into the vulnerable category, or have anyone close to you that does, otherwise you mightn't be so flippant with your "ah sure they were gonna die anyway" attitude.

Van.Bosch · 03-09-2020 12:51pm

If you are a member of NPHET, your job is to advise on public health. If it was me, I would want to be overly conservative so no one could come at me and say I didn’t warn enough etc etc. That’s fine and that’s what I think NPHET we’re doing, even without Covid they prob think pubs are risky.

The governments job is to take that advice and look at the bigger picture, the economy etc and then decide what to accept.

So I think people blame NPHET but the real issue is the government not leading, and hiding behind “science or public health advice”

zerosugarbuzz · 03-09-2020 12:56pm

Ridgerun wrote: »

Would genuinely like to know what source you got the "people that died from covid were going to die soon anyways" from?

What an awful attitude towards vulnerable people in our society. I'd hazard a guess that you don't fall into the vulnerable category, or have anyone close to you that does, otherwise you mightn't be so flippant with your "ah sure they were gonna die anyway" attitude.

It may not be very palatable but it is still true. WHO says 80% of people who catch it will have none or very mild symptoms. 15% moderate symptoms with 5% experiencing severe symptoms. These 5% are usually very elderly or vulnerable or both. This 5% needs to be extra vigilant, again unpalatable but true.

Chopper Dave · 03-09-2020 1:03pm

It's the Government that has lost the attention of people. The communication of the last set of restrictions a few weeks ago was shambolic and Ministers were struggling to address contradictions six people indoors but not for mass, only 15 people outdoors but games ok, etc. And that was before Golfgate ripped their credibility completely apart.

hmmm · 03-09-2020 1:03pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

If you are a member of NPHET, your job is to advise on public health. If it was me, I would want to be overly conservative so no one could come at me and say I didn’t warn enough etc etc. That’s fine and that’s what I think NPHET we’re doing, even without Covid they prob think pubs are risky.

I agree & disagree

.

Public health doctors are some of the best at recognising trade-offs. I know one personally, and she's always thinking about wider pictures - e.g. mental health. It's public health which are pushing to get schools back, even though there is risk involved.

They are naturally relatively conservative, but it'd be very easy for them to say "shut everything down". They have approved opening up parts of the economy which they think are safe to do so.

It's difficult for a politician to ignore the advice of people like NPHET. They can tweak the advice a bit, but you can be guaranteed there would be a tribunal if the government over-ruled public health and people died as a consequence of those decisions.

I agree with Chopper above that the communication has been very poor. This is the bit politicians are supposed to be good at.

03-09-2020 1:10pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

It may not be very palatable but it is still true. WHO says 80% of people who catch it will have none or very mild symptoms. 15% moderate symptoms with 5% experiencing severe symptoms. These 5% are usually very elderly or vulnerable or both. This 5% needs to be extra vigilant, again unpalatable but true.

I'm aware of the statistics you're stating - but saying that people who died from it were going to die soon anyway is just a terribly selfish viewpoint.

My grandfather was diagnosed with lung cancer 7 years ago. He's still living a normal and happy life now as luckily it hasn't progressed much. If he caught covid 7 years ago when diagnosed and receiving chemo, he'd be down as a statistic and people would have had the viewpoint of "sure he was going to die soon anyway". There are people behind these statistics.

At the end of the day, as intelligent beings we should be able to simply wash our hands, social distance and wear masks to protect other vulnerable people in our society. Not have the "ah sure, I won't die from it, I can do what I want" approach.

zerosugarbuzz · 03-09-2020 1:13pm

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301430902405451776

Have to say, like her or loathe her, Ciara Kelly is spot on re Covid and has been for months.

03-09-2020 1:20pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301430902405451776

Have to say, like her or loathe her, Ciara Kelly is spot on re Covid and has been for months.

She is absolutely bang on with those comments

FintanMcluskey · 03-09-2020 1:48pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301430902405451776

Have to say, like her or loathe her, Ciara Kelly is spot on re Covid and has been for months.

Have to say I'd go with love.

She is so refreshing and pragmatic.

So easy listen to, most other journalists and interviewers are overpaid echo chambers

Wallander · 03-09-2020 3:15pm

The government have blundered by giving NPHET so much of a platform. Of course people aren't going to listen to the same things about being extra cautious etc. repeated for the 50th time, no matter the spin on it. NPHET should be banned from talking to the media. Let them advise the government, of course, but in private. NPHET aren't politicians for good reason, they may be aware of the kind of medical advice people need to follow, but they have no clue on how to deliver it, and letting them try to deliver it with constant nagging/finger pointing/scaremongering is proving painfully ineffective.

GeorgeBailey · 03-09-2020 4:07pm

I think that even with the best will in the world and with people still being on board with the reasons for the restrictions, there's only so long they can take it. Especially when the vast, vast majority of people will have had little or no up close experience of the worst effects of covid.

Richard Hillman · 03-09-2020 4:08pm

They are driving outside of their lane and have been for a while. They are abusing this situation to try and manoeuvre stuff that they as individuals would be lobbying for without Covid.

There has been more and more talk about flu season. Things like Masks and 2 hour pub/Restaurant limits are things that they will want permanently.

Keeping this crisis going on as long as possible benefits them to suit their ideological purposes. And we know full well that they probably have books half written or book deals in the pipeline.

The crisis is over and they need to go back to their regular jobs.

lee_baby_simms · 03-09-2020 4:09pm

The next 2 weeks are critical.

GeorgeBailey · 03-09-2020 4:11pm

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

The next 2 weeks are critical.

They've really overused that one. They need to keep it in their back pocket until things get close to armageddon levels.

03-09-2020 4:21pm

What we need is a government with balls.

Big enough balls to make decisions rather than hiding behind NPHET.

NPHET have done a good job, but they should be advising the government not dictating to it.

Plumbthedepths · 03-09-2020 4:24pm

I follow the hygiene , cough etiquette, mask, hand hygiene the common sense advice. The rest of their nonsense along with a plethora of other numpties such as Staines, Ryan, Killeen I ignore.

03-09-2020 4:33pm

Its funny and sad, but I have read and listened to lots of stuff during Covid from the Government, NPHET, medical experts, scientists, journalists etc. A lot of people that earn huge salaries.

And I get a lot more common sense talking to friends and people on boards that are probably average people in average jobs.

Melanchthon · 03-09-2020 4:59pm

I think they would regain a lot of public confidence if they released the reduction positive test numbers, trend lines of cases, hospitalisations and so on that they deem are required reduce restrictions or conversely to tighten things back up if the figures are bad.

They are meant to be working with a plan led by
the science and statistical modelling not gut feeling so they should have this type of information.

suicide_circus · 03-09-2020 5:13pm

Yeah...i'm pretty much done.

I'll continue with hand washing and masks but the narrative is stale. Those in the high risk categories need to be the focus of restrictions and the rest of society needs to carry on. As has already been said, we now need to live with the virus and get on with life, i'm done with cowering and as for the gardai kicking down my door without a warrant - No. Just No.

Those who found they quite like the new normal are welcome to keep it.

The NPHET spiel, in which they spin the message for fear that giving all the facts will lead to a lack of fear is losing credibility by the day.

rob316 · 03-09-2020 5:44pm

I didn't vote for NPHET to run our country but that is this piss weak governments fault for giving them too much influence.

hmmm · 03-09-2020 5:57pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Those in the high risk categories need to be the focus of restrictions and the rest of society needs to carry on.

Will that include everyone who comes into contact with the "high risk" categories?

Will nurses and doctors also have to be restricted? How about nursing home workers - I'm presuming they will also have to be cut off from the rest of society "carrying on"? Will any family with someone who is immunosuppressed have to isolate themselves from society? How about someone who is in a vulnerable category and works, I presume they will have to give up their job?

How long will they have to keep this up - forever?

Harry Palmr · 03-09-2020 6:03pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301430902405451776

Have to say, like her or loathe her, Ciara Kelly is spot on re Covid and has been for months.

In late Feb/early March she opined it was a bit like a flu, I heard her as I was driving so nearly crashed though a hedge.

suicide_circus · 03-09-2020 6:15pm

hmmm wrote: »

Will that include everyone who comes into contact with the "high risk" categories?

Will nurses and doctors also have to be restricted? How about nursing home workers - I'm presuming they will also have to be cut off from the rest of society "carrying on"? Will any family with someone who is immunosuppressed have to isolate themselves from society? How about someone who is in a vulnerable category and works, I presume they will have to give up their job?

How long will they have to keep this up - forever?

I'll leave that up to the individual citizen.

Plumbthedepths · 03-09-2020 6:27pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

In late Feb/early March she opined it was a bit like a flu, I heard her as I was driving so nearly crashed though a hedge.

Do you think she was the only person in Feb/March that thought this was only a flu. The HSE was busy emptying hospital beds into Nursing homes that worked out so well.

03-09-2020 6:56pm

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

The next 2 weeks are critical.

That old chestnut again. Like clockwork, every 2 weeks....

karlitob · 03-09-2020 7:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

no one at all has questioned the individual actions required.
These were required during lockdown, and are still required today.... and even after all this has passed they are still actions which are positive and should be continued.

Nothing at all to do with this thread though

It’s exactly the point of the thread. The OP specifically referenced how the public are not taking anymore notice of the basics of infection prevention and control. And asking had NPHET lost the attention of the people.

You, and other people on here, moved off the point and politicised the situation.

quote="gifted;114506154"]When this pandemic first occurred NPHET were out and advising a lot of precautions which people actually took notice of....just recently I've noticed more and more people that I talk to are saying they're taking no more notice of NPHET as they just seem to be repeating the same warnings as before...hygiene...social distancing...etc....and just seem to be going through the motions now at these briefings they give.

Have they lost the attention of the people?[/quote]

To answer the OPs question - most definitely.

And I think there’s a few reasons why - it’s very hard to keep the entire public’s attention on anything for any length of time. And secondly, people risk assess for themselves all the time. At the start of this, it was all a complete unknown and people had real and genuine fear that they or their loved ones could really be harmed. Since then, while people may know others who have been infected, and maybe even some quite harmed and affected - most of the population don’t know many or even anyone who has been harmed by Covid. So it’s hard to stay focussed on prevention when the harm is not near - no different to why people drink or smoke or don’t exercise ....you know it’s not healthy, it’s just very hard to see an effect that’s years away.

karlitob · 03-09-2020 7:14pm

rob316 wrote: »

I didn't vote for NPHET to run our country but that is this piss weak governments fault for giving them too much influence.

Blah blah blah.

You didn’t vote for the guards who enforce the law, the teachers who teach our children, the civil service who implement policy, you didn’t vote for nurses who care for patients.

How is justice policy developed if government aren’t informed by experts in AGS and the dept of justice....same with teachers, etc etc.

What did you vote for exactly?

How do you expect a handful of people in government to ‘run’ the country? Or are you only focussed on evidence based expert advice from people who have given their careers and a lifetime to know this information.

karlitob · 03-09-2020 7:17pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301430902405451776

Have to say, like her or loathe her, Ciara Kelly is spot on re Covid and has been for months.

Yeah, she’s not wrong but to be fair
I) the HSE/DoH would, as always, be crucified for not providing information and be accused of ‘cover ups’
II) she’s has her own show on a major media station - stop talking about it then. No one is forcing you to talk about it just because there’s a briefing by the HSE/DoH.

Beechwoodspark · 03-09-2020 7:20pm

To answer the original question I fear the answer is yes for some sections of society

Some of the more let’s say dysfunctional elements of society were never on board on the NPHET recommendations

This has grown to include the disillusioned in the last few months.

PowerToWait · 03-09-2020 7:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its funny and sad, but I have read and listened to lots of stuff during Covid from the Government, NPHET, medical experts, scientists, journalists etc. A lot of people that earn huge salaries.

And I get a lot more common sense talking to friends and people on boards that are probably average people in average jobs.

By common sense you mean people that agree with you. This same stuff is happening on a global scale. It’s not simply in Ireland.

St.Spodo · 03-09-2020 7:54pm

I was very much on board for the first few months, when both NPHET and the government - in fairness to them - explained to us what we were being asked to do, why we were doing it and what the outcome would look like within a reasonable time frame. Now they're saying I'm alright to risk my health in work, where I have 15+ close contacts per day, but I can't have a few friends around for my birthday or the Guards will come after me. How are we supposed to make sense of this current regime, let alone accept it and row in behind it?

Gael23 · 03-09-2020 8:23pm

Absolutely yes and that’s no harm

Plumbthedepths · 03-09-2020 8:33pm

PowerToWait wrote: »

By common sense you mean people that agree with you. This same stuff is happening on a global scale. It’s not simply in Ireland.

People can not watch a match from the sidelines here in Ireland, can you tell me where else watching sport outdoors is forbidden?

suicide_circus · 03-09-2020 8:38pm

Denmark never closed any bars or restaurants. Think about that.

L1011 · 03-09-2020 8:42pm

MyStubbleItches wrote: »

A lot of people might just be sick of listening to an unelected government

The Government were elected - they commanded more than 50% of the vote

That's how PR-STV works.

Just because one political party in particular is upset about a voting system (that they are entirely in favour of in NI...) and spreading gibberish about "unelected Taoiseach" and so on doesn't change that.

Ned Led Zeppo · 03-09-2020 8:54pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People can not watch a match from the sidelines here in Ireland, can you tell me where else watching sport outdoors is forbidden?

The UK.

Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Should NPHED be disbanded ? 890 votes

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