Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Plumbthedepths

road_high wrote: »

Wow, saying so articulately exactly what so many of us are thinking. You can almost see Miriam and the shock on her face at a real opinion backed up by real evidence
https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1301643430385385473?s=21

It's nice to see someone with intellect and experience to highlight with what people are dealing with and suggesting a more holistic approach needs to be taken.
Hopefully more and more experienced people will put their heads above the parapet and challenge the group think.

Plumbthedepths

Hard to disagree with what he says.
The present governments behaviour is what's going to lose the buy in of people.

https://www.facebook.com/1578426990/posts/10220808550235091/?sfnsn=mo&extid=6N9DYw1LUoRgYhw7

is_that_so

kippy wrote: »

Some people are just idiots - not everyone - but some. Some chose not to engage even. No level of communications mastery will change that.
You don't need to look too far to see idiots at all levels of Irish society.

Holohan and Glynn are not responsible for "public feel" - it should be fairly obvious to you and more than as the timeline has moved on, people patience has withered - not due to the people or the comms, but due to their own personal circumstances and/or the perception around the virus changing for one reason or another.
As I said, all of the above it totally understandable. People finances, health and lifestyle have been severly impacted and in their own bubble that is the worst thing ever.

And your smug condescension is really not going to persuade them to do it either!

kippy

is_that_so wrote: »

And your smug condescension is really not going to persuade them to do it either!

So you disagree?

karlitob

Happydays2020 wrote: »

- it wasn’t visible stepped down, there was no requirement for all 28 testing centres all around the country To open and be staffed during June July and August. The whole thing was ramped up within 36 hours. That is a HSE Issue and not a Nphet one. And the ceo has answered that.

You think they are doing a great job. I don’t. In some areas they have done a very good job and in other areas it has been mixed to say the least.

On this point:

“testing is incredibly expensive and time consuming. Blanket testing cannot do what you think it does.”

Indeed it is expensive and time consuming but the signal that the “country is closed” is going to cost a lot more. We have american nationality executives from MNEs who cannot fully participate in the country including staycations because of their accents. Do you think those people will be encouraging further investment here?

Advisors need to look around corners and see the different nuances to their recommendations (even if they may not be the perfect public health solution). They need to understand the broader environment including the political economy in considering recommendations and back in their Other day jobs they need to be walking the walk.

By the way - I am far more critical of the Minister and the current Government. What happened two weeks with the rushed Cabinet meeting was ridiculous and we have seen the broader fall out from that which will have lasting damage to our reputation.[/quote]

As I say, blanket testing doesn’t do what you think it does. Those issues you identify will remain, or otherwise, whether or not their is blanket testing.
So yes, throwing good money after bad, is not a good use of resources.
No matter how many tests you do, there will still only be a positive rate of about 1-2%, notwithstanding the sensitivity and specificity issues it has. The detected or not detected depends on viral. It is a problem is people think a negative test is negative for Covid 19. The consequence is that we will end up in the same boat as the masks - a false sense of security not grounded in evidence, and importantly - to the detriment of The effective measures of distance, hand hygiene and cough etiquette.

And I disagree - it is not Nphet role to understand all political consequences of all recommendations that they make. That’s for government, all governments departments and ultimately cabinet.

They are a function of the DoH, not government. It’s all in their terms of reference. Just go look.

Oranage2

People are fed up with their and the government's contradictions.

Thousands of businesses in Kildare, Laois and Offaly followed the guidelines to the letter but were forced to close when the real culprits the food processing plants could remain open even though they were responsible for 100s of cases.

Next they said we can't watch live sports or have house gatherings more than 6 people. But politicians broke all their restrictions by having an 81 person golf dinner.

Finally people don't think the virus is as serious anymore, unless you're in that vulnerable category people aren't scared.

karlitob

Oranage2 wrote: »

Finally people don't think the virus is as serious anymore, unless you're in that vulnerable category people aren't scared.

And this is the point. Behavioural health psychology 101. How do you get people to care about their health and that of others when there is no immediate (or at least perceived) immediate risk?
Sure people die of cardiac issues, respiratory issues and cancers daily due, in varying degrees, to drinking, smoking, lack of exercise, poor diet etx.

The question for government then is how do you Support people to make the right choice and to ‘force’ (and I say that not with its true meaning) To do what’s good for them, if they don’t.

Sugar tax, seat belts, cycle lanes, speed limits, etc

suicide_circus

road_high wrote: »

Wow, saying so articulately exactly what so many of us are thinking. You can almost see Miriam and the shock on her face at a real opinion backed up by real evidence
https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1301643430385385473?s=21

We've reduced life to staying alive. I know that sounds ridiculous at first but there is a difference between a life that is worth living and one thats not.

kippy

suicide_circus wrote: »

We've reduced life to staying alive. I know that sounds ridiculous at first but there is a difference between a life that is worth living and one thats not.

We have far from reduced "life" to staying alive.

Gael23

kippy wrote: »

We have far from reduced "life" to staying alive.

What is there to do outside work and your. home?

Plumbthedepths

kippy wrote: »

We have far from reduced "life" to staying alive.

I think the Geriatrician on PT might disagree with you.

kippy

Gael23 wrote: »

What is there to do outside work and your. home?

Lots. The problem here appears to be your viewpoint and not reality

kippy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I think the Geriatrician on PT might disagree with you.

I don't think he would unless he specifically stated to stop living and stay alive

hayoc

kippy wrote: »

Lots. The problem here appears to be your viewpoint and not reality

There are plenty of daytime activities alright. Limited by social distancing and numbers of course.

Evenings, not so much. No musicals, no plays, no comedy shows, no pubs, no concerts, no festivals, no house parties (if you are being a responsible adult), no nightclubs, restaurants are functioning under strict rules so the old style of going to a restaurant and then sitting over coffee or a drink for a couple of hours after the meal isnt happening, what CAN you do after 10pm now that involves socialising with other people?

Ridgerun

Ridgerun wrote: »

My grandfather was diagnosed with lung cancer 7 years ago. He's still living a normal and happy life now as luckily it hasn't progressed much. If he caught covid 7 years ago when diagnosed and receiving chemo, he'd be down as a statistic and people would have had the viewpoint of "sure he was going to die soon anyway".

He'd also have died of MRSA, C Diff (my best friend's dad died from this in similar circumstances to your grandad), the flu or a common cold, as many people on chemo have. If anything with everyone taking precautions, he'd be LESS likely to die now than 7 years ago. However he'd be far more likely to be diagnosed too late to be treated.

Sorry for your loss, but if you are immunocompromised in any way you need to be extremely vigilant.

Zebra3

hayoc wrote: »

There are plenty of daytime activities alright. Limited by social distancing and numbers of course.

Evenings, not so much. No musicals, no plays, no comedy shows, no pubs, no concerts, no festivals, no house parties (if you are being a responsible adult), no nightclubs, restaurants are functioning under strict rules so the old style of going to a restaurant and then sitting over coffee or a drink for a couple of hours after the meal isnt happening, what CAN you do after 10pm now that involves socialising with other people?

No attending sports events.

They should've advised a stricter lockdown for a few more weeks in June when numbers were on the floor and consolidate the first lockdown. Now we're left with a government which nobody prefers over the last caretaker government, giving mixed messages and no strong sense of leadership or an end goal for us all to aim towards. We can't keep having lockdowns because it's depressing the hell out of people and destroying the economy, and yet a severe prolonged lockdown coupled with very strict controls over who comes into and out of the country are the only way to get rid of the virus from this island. People only had one severe lockdown "in them", and it is pointless castigating people for giving out about not wanting to have another one. This winter is going to be so sh'it.

hayoc

Zebra3 wrote: »

No attending sports events.

Yes - of course - apologies for omitting that, I never attended them pre lockdown.

Is there ANYTHING that can be done in terms of socialising in the evenings now bar a socially distanced restaurant visit for a short period of time?

My gym is open in the evenings but its hardly relaxing, or socialising!

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He'd also have died of MRSA, C Diff (my best friend's dad died from this in similar circumstances to your grandad), the flu or a common cold, as many people on chemo have. If anything with everyone taking precautions, he'd be LESS likely to die now than 7 years ago. However he'd be far more likely to be diagnosed too late to be treated.

Sorry for your loss, but if you are immunocompromised in any way you need to be extremely vigilant.

I don't get the point you're trying to make here.

My initial point was saying that people who were vulnerable that passed from covid were "going to die soon anyway" is an inaccurate statement with no real factual basis that's being used by people trying to shirk responsibility from themselves. I never said vulnerable people don't also need to be vigilant.

My grandad has lived 7 years - had he died from covid when he got his initial diagnosis, people would be saying "he was gonna die soon anyway" to suit their argument.

Also the majority of those illnesses you listed aren't being passed on in the community by healthy people to vulnerable people - which is the key issue as to why everyone needs to be responsible here.

Covid is much more contagious and has a much higher mortality rate than the common cold and flu.

karlitob

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I think the Geriatrician on PT might disagree with you.

Only about 10% of older people ever engage with health services. The vast majority are fit and healthy. While geriatricians are experience physicians who are expert in older persons - they do only treat sick older people, not all older people. So while articulate and insightful - it doesn’t represent the viewpoint of all older people.

suicide_circus

One of the side effects of this pandemic has been to reveal a subset of our society who have an awful horn for controlling the lives of others.

Richard Hillman

General NPHET and his Junta intend to be around for a lot longer

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1302131708641390592?s=19

The need to politely **** off right now

Oranage2

Gael23 wrote: »

What is there to do outside work and your. home?

It's the new normal, you have to adapt, you have to find new interests and social ideas.

FintanMcluskey

suicide_circus wrote: »

One of the side effects of this pandemic has been to reveal a subset of our society who have an awful horn for controlling the lives of others.

And also a subset who have a horn for wanting to be controlled.

gifted

Just watching the 9 news and nphet chap is saying the same message again....it's just repeating the same warning over and over again...yet the numbers are going up....

karlitob

gifted wrote: »

Just watching the 9 news and nphet chap is saying the same message again....it's just repeating the same warning over and over again...yet the numbers are going up....

Not sure what the point is here.

The message is the same as these measures are the only way to control a virus: wash hands, cough etiquette, keep your distance, isolate if unwell. So you know now, this will never change for this virus or any virus, pandemic or no pandemic.

And the numbers are going up because people aren’t adhering the guidelines - for whatever reason.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And also a subset who have a horn for wanting to be controlled.

and also a subset of people who are obsessed with the horn

growleaves

karlitob wrote: »

And the numbers are going up because people aren’t adhering the guidelines - for whatever reason.

There's no proof of that, it's just assumed.

NIMAN

gifted wrote: »

Just watching the 9 news and nphet chap is saying the same message again....it's just repeating the same warning over and over again...yet the numbers are going up....

The press conferences are all a bit samey, aren't they?

Only livened up of late because there is a chance the Dubs might all get locked in.;)

robbiezero

NIMAN wrote: »

The press conferences are all a bit samey, aren't they?

Only livened up of late because there is a chance the Dubs might all get locked in.;)

Still doing "very concerned" and "next 2 weeks are crucial" etc?

I don't bother watching them myself.

NIMAN

Kinda given up on them too.
But might start again if Dublin get shut up, there will be uproar.

gifted

karlitob wrote: »

Not sure what the point is here.

The message is the same as these measures are the only way to control a virus: wash hands, cough etiquette, keep your distance, isolate if unwell. So you know now, this will never change for this virus or any virus, pandemic or no pandemic.

And the numbers are going up because people aren’t adhering the guidelines - for whatever reason.

Point is ....it's the same mantra all the time yet the numbers are shooting upwards .....is it time that they took a different course of action?....like change the record and actually do something or recommend something that might get the numbers down?......we all know the guidelines but it's obvious from the numbers that there is a lot of people not listening.......

karlitob

growleaves wrote: »

There's no proof of that, it's just assumed.

What?!?

The increase in any virus is due to non-adherence to Infection Prevention and Control precautions - in this instance, droplet precautions.

What you’re saying is that infection prevention and control precautions don’t work. I look forward to seeing the evidence-base you have on that.

karlitob

gifted wrote: »

Point is ....it's the same mantra all the time yet the numbers are shooting upwards .....is it time that they took a different course of action?....like change the record and actually do something or recommend something that might get the numbers down?......we all know the guidelines but it's obvious from the numbers that there is a lot of people not listening.......

I think you’re missing the difference between the message and adhering to the message. NPHET can’t make people wash their hands.

What message do you think they should offer - cough in other peoples faces, don’t wash your hands.

Saw this on twitter and lol'd

Breaking: MacSharry also called on Micheál Martin to "get the CMO off the telly. He is scaring the bejasis out of people." #iestaff

NIMAN

I think the big problem both NPHET and the Government have is that although everyone bought into the compliance at the start of all this, despite how draconian the measures had to be, many have now stopped caring.

Of course the vast majority are still following guidelines and doing their best, but there is a cohort of people who simply have gone back to normal and they won't change no matter how much NPHET moan.

Gael23

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course the vast majority are still following guidelines and doing their best, but there is a cohort of people who simply have gone back to normal and they won't change no matter how much NPHET moan.

Many are just being cautious and not buying into the doom presented by our overlords

kippy

suicide_circus wrote: »

One of the side effects of this pandemic has been to reveal a subset of our society who have an awful horn for controlling the lives of others.

meh,
replace the word "controlling" with "saving" and youd have a similiar term for the same people.

Munsterman12

Stupid people have lost interest. But that is no surprise. Once they get the virus the numbers will start to decrease because it will be hard for the virus to infect intelligent people.

Jackman25

Munsterman12 wrote: »

Stupid people have lost interest. But that is no surprise. Once they get the virus the numbers will start to decrease because it will be hard for the virus to infect intelligent people.

I'd say you should start locking yourself down so.

kippy

Munsterman12 wrote: »

Stupid people have lost interest. But that is no surprise. Once they get the virus the numbers will start to decrease because it will be hard for the virus to infect intelligent people.

To be completely honest, that is completely the wrong way of looking at it.
There are lots of people who will catch this, through no fault of their own or even without knowing how they have caught it.
The only certain way NOT to catch it is total isolation from all other humans and indeed pets, and strict sanitisation and isolation of any goods that are delivered to you.
I don't think that's feasible and neither does anyone else really.

Wallander

I'm thinking that NPHET would be better off meeting less regularly. Seems like they have a meeting every week, which is a fairly common way for groups to justify their purpose, and was surely appropriate at the start of the pandemic but arguably not so appropriate now. Case numbers are very volatile so of course they will also want to justify their purpose by reacting and coming up with a new recommendation each time, but new rules every week or two are confusing and risks undermining faith of public.

lee_baby_simms

Munsterman12 wrote: »

Stupid people have lost interest. But that is no surprise. Once they get the virus the numbers will start to decrease because it will be hard for the virus to infect intelligent people.

Dunning-Kruger effect right here.

Richard Hillman

Wallander wrote: »

I'm thinking that NPHET would be better off meeting less regularly. Seems like they have a meeting every week, which is a fairly common way for groups to justify their purpose, and was surely appropriate at the start of the pandemic but arguably not so appropriate now. Case numbers are very volatile so of course they will also want to justify their purpose by reacting and coming up with a new recommendation each time, but new rules every week or two are confusing and risks undermining faith of public.

They must be charging by the hour. Get a meeting in every day of 2 hour+. Probably about €500 per hour for their expertise.

TomTomTim

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Dunning-Kruger effect right here.

True intellectuals blindly go along with everything and question nothing according to, Munsterman12. It's honestly bizarre that a position of blind obedience is viewed as intelligent by some.

MrMusician18

gifted wrote: »

Point is ....it's the same mantra all the time yet the numbers are shooting upwards .....is it time that they took a different course of action?....like change the record and actually do something or recommend something that might get the numbers down?......we all know the guidelines but it's obvious from the numbers that there is a lot of people not listening.......

They are recommending the correct things to reduce the numbers, but people are not listening.

I don't know what you expect them to do, recommend something else that is likely not as effective as what they are recommending just because people want to listen to a different message?

The problem with facts and hard science is that it isn't equivalent to emotions and feelings. Unfortunately, the population likes this nonsense and takes feelings for facts.

MrMusician18

TomTomTim wrote: »

True intellectuals blindly go along with everything and question nothing according to, Munsterman12. It's honestly bizarre that a position of blind obedience is viewed as intelligent by some.

The ignorant are experts in everything.

It isn't blind obedience, but a simple recognition of facts. Public Health have access to data and the skills to interpret that data that the general population don't have. Intelligent people recognise the gap in their own skills and knowledge and defer to those that do.

In any case most people recognise that what public health are recommending is sensible. The real issue is that despite that recognition what they are recommending is getting in the way of what they want to do, which they consider to be more important. It's just another manifestation of selfishness.

Hellrazer

Whats ruined peoples view of NPHET is the fact that they lied blatantly to us at the start of this and are continuing to lie to us.

At the start of this they told us we`d have 100,000 deaths. We`ve had 1780.

Then they try to tell us the reason we didnt have 100,000 deaths is because of their actions and what the Irish people did to control the spread which is a complete load of b*llox.

Sweden who had little or no lockdown - 5800 deaths
The UK - late to the lockdown still only have 41,000 with more than 10 times our population.

There was no way that Ireland was going to have 100,000 deaths even if we went the way of Sweden with zero lock downs.

Yet here we are 6 months later with very little deaths in the last month and they are still giving out bad advice to the population.
Cases are at a reasonable level compared to some other countries and are manageable.

Id have a lot more respect for them if they just told the truth. I actually think Donnelly , Martin and Glynn want to destroy the country and the economy.

kippy

Hellrazer wrote: »

Whats ruined peoples view of NPHET is the fact that they lied blatantly to us at the start of this and are continuing to lie to us.

At the start of this they told us we`d have 100,000 deaths. We`ve had 1780.

Then they try to tell us the reason we didnt have 100,000 deaths is because of their actions and what the Irish people did to control the spread which is a complete load of b*llox.

Sweden who had little or no lockdown - 5800 deaths
The UK - late to the lockdown still only have 41,000 with more than 10 times our population.

There was no way that Ireland was going to have 100,000 deaths even if we went the way of Sweden with zero lock downs.

Yet here we are 6 months later with very little deaths in the last month and they are still giving out bad advice to the population.
Cases are at a reasonable level compared to some other countries and are manageable.

Id have a lot more respect for them if they just told the truth. I actually think Donnelly , Martin and Glynn want to destroy the country and the economy.

Sweden had restrictions. People followed the advice that was given. Even if the restrictions weren't as strong as our own. There isnt one nation on earth that didnt change how it did things or advised its citizens.
Without any intervention only an idiot would suggest that things would be the same as they are now.

We have approximately 700K people over 65 in the country. Knowing what we do about the effect of the virus on this cohort, you dont think we'd have major issues were it allowed to run free? We have many thousands in nursing homes and at high risk. You don't think they would have been in bother without intervention?

Double O Seven

kippy wrote: »

Sweden had restrictions. People followed the advice that was given. Even if the restrictions weren't as strong as our own. There isnt one nation on earth that didnt change how it did things or advised its citizens

Sweden had feck all restrictions except high school and colleges went online only and bars + restaurants went table service only & what about Belarus? They should all be dropping like flies according to NEHET, Neil Ferguson etc.