COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

LessOutragePlz · 27-08-2020 10:35PM

dexter647 wrote: »

Well if it's on twitter it must be true so:rolleyes:

The source of the Twitter post is right there underneath the Twitter post but sure keep ignoring the evidence that's right in front of your eyes :rolleyes:

dexter647 · 27-08-2020 10:42PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The source of the Twitter post is right there underneath the Twitter post but sure keep ignoring the evidence that's right in front of your eyes :rolleyes:

Yea seen that alright...Did you read through it?:rolleyes:

hmmm · 27-08-2020 10:44PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The source of the Twitter post is right there underneath the Twitter post but sure keep ignoring the evidence that's right in front of your eyes :rolleyes:

That's a scary paper, wow - "with regional estimates of the predicted COVID-19 IFR ranging from 0.43% in Western SubSaharan Africa to 1.83% for Eastern Europe"

"The probability of a severe case is 5 to 17 times higher than the predicted IFR and 2 to 5 times higher than the health system adjusted IFR"

Let's hope the vaccines get here soon. I don't think we've seen death rates of 1.83% since the 1918 pandemic, those severe case estimates are also worrying, and that's all assuming a functioning healthcare system. Thanks for posting!

3xh · 28-08-2020 06:36AM

NH2013 wrote: »

Okay, but at the same time, you should be kept away from those in society that could be put at risk by catching the disease off you, ie the >20% mortality rate in 80+ males with an underlying condition.

This isn't about whether you'll suffer badly from the disease or be unlucky enough to be the one to die/have long lasting conditions, but about protecting the vulnerable in society.

So if you don't want the vaccine fine, but don't put yourself in close contact with those at risk, avoid shops, cinemas, pubs, flights etc.

You mean like the 100% uptake in all medical facilities by all medical staff of other seasonal vaccines to protect those vulnerable in society? You know it’s not 100%?

Do all cinema staff and airline staff take the various vaccines needed to ensure other vulnerable people can live a full and free life? No. So what’s different with this Covid stuff? The constant media hype, is what.

LessOutragePlz · 28-08-2020 07:55AM

3xh wrote: »

You mean like the 100% uptake in all medical facilities by all medical staff of other seasonal vaccines to protect those vulnerable in society? You know it’s not 100%?

Do all cinema staff and airline staff take the various vaccines needed to ensure other vulnerable people can live a full and free life? No. So what’s different with this Covid stuff? The constant media hype, is what.

The people that haven't taken those other vaccines must all be crazy anti vaxxer's too :rolleyes: .

Hmmzis · 28-08-2020 08:37AM

There is only one seasonal vaccine, against influenza. The flu in comparison to SARS-cov-2 is more like an annoyance, inconvenience.

You can't commence patient facing work for the HSE if you MMR titers have dropped below protective levels. You'll be aksed to take the MMR shot before being allowed anywhere near patients.

3xh · 28-08-2020 09:12AM

Hmmzis wrote: »

There is only one seasonal vaccine, against influenza. The flu in comparison to SARS-cov-2 is more like an annoyance, inconvenience.

You can't commence patient facing work for the HSE if you MMR titers have dropped below protective levels. You'll be aksed to take the MMR shot before being allowed anywhere near patients.

Sorry, MMR? As in Measles, Mumps, Rubella? I have that. Yet I’m classed by many here as anti-Vax because I urge caution about taking and being mandatorily forced to take any COVID vaccine.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t talking about medical staff being required to take the MMR jab before working the floor. I have also made the point in one of the other many COVID related threads that to me, the various old vaccines like MMR, polio, diphtheria, etc are in my mind safe as they’re so tried and tested with basically no new adverse reactions left to be witnessed.

The issues with Pandemrix and H1N1 in 2009, Thalidomide, etc are the speed in which they rolled out and recipients told how it’s for their benefit. Like how we’re being told a Covid vaccine will enable us to ‘get back to normal’

Telling a current cinema worker, a nurse, a pilot, etc that unless you take the Covid vaccine, you should not be permitted to work around the public for their sake is a step too far.

I’ll go back to my original point, is the uptake of the seasonal flu vaccine 100% in all medical facilities by all staff? If not, why not? Are flu related patient complications due to staff not being inoculated deemed ok and ‘within limits’ of life whereas all things Covid are over that imaginary line and everything known to Man must be implemented to stop even one Covid related transmission/death in a care facility or elsewhere?

is_that_so · 28-08-2020 09:27AM

Don't know if this has been posted before but an interesting direction.

Cats can contract an almost always fatal disease that’s caused by a coronavirus that infects only felines. Now preliminary research suggests that two experimental drugs that can cure that disease in cats, called feline infectious peritonitis, might help treat people infected with SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus behind the pandemic.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-two-drugs-cats-humans-treatment

hmmm · 28-08-2020 09:40AM

3xh wrote: »

Telling a current cinema worker, a nurse, a pilot, etc that unless you take the Covid vaccine, you should not be permitted to work around the public for their sake is a step too far.

Great we've got your point. You think someone who doesn't take the vaccine should be treated no differently to anyone else, including working with vulnerable people who may die as a consequence, travelling, or being allowed into various locations where you may spread the virus. Can you stop repeating it now, or are we just going to have you posting this in response to everything on this thread?

hmmm · 28-08-2020 09:46AM

Maybe someday we will have the equivalent of a broad spectrum antibiotic for viruses?
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/26/science.abb3753

hmmm · 28-08-2020 09:49AM

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1299259356299624450

is_that_so · 28-08-2020 10:03AM

hmmm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1299259356299624450

Really need a lot more attention to the mental health side of things. Half the time we don't even notice what it's doing to us!

Call me Al · 28-08-2020 10:25AM

The abuse Paul Reid got after that tweet is just something else.

tobefrank321 · 28-08-2020 10:47AM

NH2013 wrote: »

Okay, but at the same time, you should be kept away from those in society that could be put at risk by catching the disease off you, ie the >20% mortality rate in 80+ males with an underlying condition.

This isn't about whether you'll suffer badly from the disease or be unlucky enough to be the one to die/have long lasting conditions, but about protecting the vulnerable in society.

So if you don't want the vaccine fine, but don't put yourself in close contact with those at risk, avoid shops, cinemas, pubs, flights etc.

If the vaccine doesn't work well on the elderly or those with weak immune systems, its very likely you will have to provide proof of vaccination before visiting a relative in a nursing home, as otherwise you could cause an outbreak in that home.
It would be madness for nursing home staff to let an unvaccinated person in.

tobefrank321 · 28-08-2020 10:50AM

Call me Al wrote: »

The abuse Paul Reid got after that tweet is just something else.

Not sure what abuse he got, but the HSE were very poor when it came to covid 19. It only takes one serious crisis to demonstrate how dysfunctional some organisations are.

3xh · 28-08-2020 11:18AM

hmmm wrote: »

Great we've got your point. You think someone who doesn't take the vaccine should be treated no differently to anyone else, including working with vulnerable people who may die as a consequence, travelling, or being allowed into various locations where you may spread the virus. Can you stop repeating it now, or are we just going to have you posting this in response to everything on this thread?

No difference to yourself, so. Deal.

Gael23 · 28-08-2020 01:44PM

The need to store the Moderna vaccine under liquid nitrogen will cause enormous distribution challenges. I don’t imagine many GP surgeries would have the facility to do that

hmmm · 28-08-2020 02:13PM

Daily Mail link, apologies. This is from the UK.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8673393/UK-prepares-fast-track-coronavirus-vaccine-train-army-health-workers.html

"And the Government is also training up an army of medical workers to be able to give out the jabs in order to speed up the process. This could include pharmacists, midwives, paramedics, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, and even vets. The workforce is set to be trained by October."

"People could be able to drive to centres specially set up - possibly in GP surgery car parks, for example - and get the vaccine without having to go into a clinic or hospital."

timsey tiger · 28-08-2020 02:14PM

Gael23 wrote: »

The need to store the Moderna vaccine under liquid nitrogen will cause enormous distribution challenges. I don’t imagine many GP surgeries would have the facility to do that

Yawn, farmers up and down the country have bulls spunk stored in liquid nitrogen, seriously if this is an issue covid 19 isn't anywhere near our biggest problem.

28-08-2020 02:17PM

Call me Al wrote: »

The abuse Paul Reid got after that tweet is just something else.

He's a spoofer...

He moved to leitrim from Dublin in March to work remotely while hundreds of his staff were getting infected daily in Dublin restricted to 2k. While he was able to drive up and down from leitrim to Dublin. Not the greatest indicator from head of hse with solidarity to its staff. They could work remotely or move to leitrim.

Also who the hell wants to live with this when test and trace is pretty rubbish in this country. Too slow...

hmmm · 28-08-2020 03:28PM

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN25O1A1

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned on Friday that the coronavirus pandemic would worsen in coming months, and that life would not return to normal until a vaccine against it had been developed."

"Meanwhile, she said further contracts for COVID-19 vaccines were “in the works” between drug companies and the European Union, whose rotating presidency Germany holds until December."

Hmmzis · 28-08-2020 03:30PM

3xh wrote: »

Sorry, MMR? As in Measles, Mumps, Rubella? I have that. Yet I’m classed by many here as anti-Vax because I urge caution about taking and being mandatorily forced to take any COVID vaccine.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t talking about medical staff being required to take the MMR jab before working the floor. I have also made the point in one of the other many COVID related threads that to me, the various old vaccines like MMR, polio, diphtheria, etc are in my mind safe as they’re so tried and tested with basically no new adverse reactions left to be witnessed.

The issues with Pandemrix and H1N1 in 2009, Thalidomide, etc are the speed in which they rolled out and recipients told how it’s for their benefit. Like how we’re being told a Covid vaccine will enable us to ‘get back to normal’

Telling a current cinema worker, a nurse, a pilot, etc that unless you take the Covid vaccine, you should not be permitted to work around the public for their sake is a step too far.

I’ll go back to my original point, is the uptake of the seasonal flu vaccine 100% in all medical facilities by all staff? If not, why not? Are flu related patient complications due to staff not being inoculated deemed ok and ‘within limits’ of life whereas all things Covid are over that imaginary line and everything known to Man must be implemented to stop even one Covid related transmission/death in a care facility or elsewhere?

You keep mentioning the same two tretments, one vaccine and one drug that have caused isues. Why those two? Why not change it up a bit? There were issues with some batches of inactivated polio vaccines, the inactivated RSV one was an even bigger clusterf&$*. Maybe some of the rarer side effects of ibupeofen in children? Try to mix it up a bit, please.

The first you mention is Pandermix, a H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine. It was implicated with an increased incidence of narcolepsy. Well, it turned out it was the viral proteins on the virus itself that caused this to happen. The Pandermix version had a higher dose of it. The kicker here is that places where Pandermix wasn't deployed also saw an increase in narcolepsy cases - due to wild type infections with that particular H1N1 strain.
You were at an increased risk of narcolepsy if you had the relevant mutation in the MHC proteins, that's regardless if you took the vaccine or got the wild type infection. Overall it's estimated that it was still less risk to take the Pandermix vaccine than risk the wild type Swine Flu.
Btw. The other 2009 Swine Flu vaccines in the same timeline didn't have this issue.

Source: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy#

The second you mentioned is a drug from the 50-60ies. It caused an increased amount of birth defects and still births when it was given to pregnant women to alleviate morning sickness. The problem here was that the drug eas never tested in a clinical trial on pregnant women.
The drug itself is still in use for other conditions, after clinical trials were conducted. I didn't go past the Wiki article for this one, seems it has the key points and sources there.

Not even the Russians are suggesting to just jab everyone without checking if it's safe enough first in a clinical trial.

Regarding your last question, some have actually tried to find that out:

https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/35/4/570/1685617

"Suggested strategies for improving their own uptake included better access to evidence of effectiveness (67%) and improved work-based vaccination (45%)."

Also, why do you keep comparing Covid-19 to the flu? When it comes to mortality alone, the former is at least twice as deadly as measles and is way more contagious than the latter. The flu in comparison would barely register here.

3xh · 28-08-2020 06:52PM

Hmmzis wrote: »

You keep mentioning the same two tretments, one vaccine and one drug that have caused isues. Why those two? Why not change it up a bit? There were issues with some batches of inactivated polio vaccines, the inactivated RSV one was an even bigger clusterf&$*. Maybe some of the rarer side effects of ibupeofen in children? Try to mix it up a bit, please.

The first you mention is Pandermix, a H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine. It was implicated with an increased incidence of narcolepsy. Well, it turned out it was the viral proteins on the virus itself that caused this to happen. The Pandermix version had a higher dose of it. The kicker here is that places where Pandermix wasn't deployed also saw an increase in narcolepsy cases - due to wild type infections with that particular H1N1 strain.
You were at an increased risk of narcolepsy if you had the relevant mutation in the MHC proteins, that's regardless if you took the vaccine or got the wild type infection. Overall it's estimated that it was still less risk to take the Pandermix vaccine than risk the wild type Swine Flu.
Btw. The other 2009 Swine Flu vaccines in the same timeline didn't have this issue.

Source: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy#

The second you mentioned is a drug from the 50-60ies. It caused an increased amount of birth defects and still births when it was given to pregnant women to alleviate morning sickness. The problem here was that the drug eas never tested in a clinical trial on pregnant women.
The drug itself is still in use for other conditions, after clinical trials were conducted. I didn't go past the Wiki article for this one, seems it has the key points and sources there.

Not even the Russians are suggesting to just jab everyone without checking if it's safe enough first in a clinical trial.

Regarding your last question, some have actually tried to find that out:

https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/35/4/570/1685617

"Suggested strategies for improving their own uptake included better access to evidence of effectiveness (67%) and improved work-based vaccination (45%)."

Also, why do you keep comparing Covid-19 to the flu? When it comes to mortality alone, the former is at least twice as deadly as measles and is way more contagious than the latter. The flu in comparison would barely register here.

In the science mag source link you post, regarding non-recipients of a vaccine also allegedly getting narcolepsy, the article quotes the researchers as saying the jury is still out on that claim. It’s down towards the bottom. Yet the jury and GSK themselves have agreed Pandemrix caused the narcolepsy in those who received their vaccine.
It is not correct to use the non-vaccinated people as proof that the vaccinated people were going to get it anyway.

What difference does it make if I keep referring to Pandemrix/Swine Flu, Thalidomide, etc. I need to mention 10 pharma related cock-ups to be valid?

Also, saying the other swine flu vaccines didn’t suffer from the Pandemrix issue like it’s a good thing is missing the point. It shows the randomness of it all and in turn the randomness in what awaits recipients of a vaccine around the world.

On a lighter note, I think this says it better than I ever could!
https://youtu.be/Et1pZ0kNVTU

nannerbenahs · 28-08-2020 07:32PM

3xh wrote: »

In the science mag source link you post, regarding non-recipients of a vaccine also allegedly getting narcolepsy, the article quotes the researchers as saying the jury is still out on that claim. It’s down towards the bottom. Yet the jury and GSK themselves have agreed Pandemrix caused the narcolepsy in those who received their vaccine.
It is not correct to use the non-vaccinated people as proof that the vaccinated people were going to get it anyway.

What difference does it make if I keep referring to Pandemrix/Swine Flu, Thalidomide, etc. I need to mention 10 pharma related cock-ups to be valid?

Also, saying the other swine flu vaccines didn’t suffer from the Pandemrix issue like it’s a good thing is missing the point. It shows the randomness of it all and in turn the randomness in what awaits recipients of a vaccine around the world.

On a lighter note, I think this says it better than I ever could!
https://youtu.be/Et1pZ0kNVTU

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation have already invested more than $21 million in an MIT project to create a microneedle vaccine delivery system that will inject a reactive die under the recipients skin which can then be scanned by a reader. This pattern will act like an indelible bar code tattoo, enabling the global authorities to monitor and control your whereabouts and behaviour.

The New Zealand State has already decided to remove people from their homes and place them in quarantine facilities (detention centres controlled by the military). Hardly surprising since Michael Ryan of the WHO was talking about this on March 30th.

New Zealand with an estimated population of 5 million and just 22 alleged deaths from COVID 19 in the entire country (a population mortality risk of 0.0004%), and no deaths at all for nearly three months, clearly these measures are not a response to any genuine threat from COVID 19.
Don´t you think the same thing is happening here, just a little more tentatively?

nannerbenahs · 28-08-2020 07:38PM

Thus far, the global response to COVID 19 has deviated little from the Rockefeller’s suggested Lockstep scenario in their 2010 report Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development.

Like Event 201, this is another example of the quite extraordinary prescience of the people who form global governance policy. They can not only predict, in almost perfect detail, what the media will discover and report, but also nature itself.

Removing the “infected” from their homes and incarcerating them in detention centres mirrors the policy suggestion of Dr Michael Ryan from the WHO. While New Zealand is the first nominally democratic state to raid family homes and remove people by force, it certainly won’t be the last. The UK State has already given itself the power to do so in the Health Protections (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020.

dominatinMC · 28-08-2020 07:47PM

Christ almighty, how did this once-informative thread become a haven for anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists?! :rolleyes:

3xh · 28-08-2020 07:59PM

Hmmzis wrote: »

You keep mentioning the same two tretments, one vaccine and one drug that have caused isues. Why those two? Why not change it up a bit? There were issues with some batches of inactivated polio vaccines, the inactivated RSV one was an even bigger clusterf&$*. Maybe some of the rarer side effects of ibupeofen in children? Try to mix it up a bit, please.

The first you mention is Pandermix, a H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine. It was implicated with an increased incidence of narcolepsy. Well, it turned out it was the viral proteins on the virus itself that caused this to happen. The Pandermix version had a higher dose of it. The kicker here is that places where Pandermix wasn't deployed also saw an increase in narcolepsy cases - due to wild type infections with that particular H1N1 strain.
You were at an increased risk of narcolepsy if you had the relevant mutation in the MHC proteins, that's regardless if you took the vaccine or got the wild type infection. Overall it's estimated that it was still less risk to take the Pandermix vaccine than risk the wild type Swine Flu.
Btw. The other 2009 Swine Flu vaccines in the same timeline didn't have this issue.

Source: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy#

The second you mentioned is a drug from the 50-60ies. It caused an increased amount of birth defects and still births when it was given to pregnant women to alleviate morning sickness. The problem here was that the drug eas never tested in a clinical trial on pregnant women.
The drug itself is still in use for other conditions, after clinical trials were conducted. I didn't go past the Wiki article for this one, seems it has the key points and sources there.

Not even the Russians are suggesting to just jab everyone without checking if it's safe enough first in a clinical trial.

Regarding your last question, some have actually tried to find that out:

https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/35/4/570/1685617

"Suggested strategies for improving their own uptake included better access to evidence of effectiveness (67%) and improved work-based vaccination (45%)."

Also, why do you keep comparing Covid-19 to the flu? When it comes to mortality alone, the former is at least twice as deadly as measles and is way more contagious than the latter. The flu in comparison would barely register here.

In the science mag source link you post, regarding non-recipients of a vaccine also allegedly getting narcolepsy, the article quotes the researchers as saying the jury is still out on that claim. It’s down towards the bottom. Yet the jury and GSK themselves have agreed Pandemrix caused the narcolepsy in those who received their vaccine.
It is not correct to use the non-vaccinated people as proof that the vaccinated people were going to get it anyway.

What difference does it make if I keep referring to Pandemrix/Swine Flu, Thalidomide, etc. I need to mention 10 pharma related cock-ups to be valid?

Also, saying the other swine flu vaccines didn’t suffer from the Pandemrix issue like it’s a good thing is missing the point. It shows the randomness of it all and in turn the randomness in what awaits recipients of a vaccine around the world.

On a lighter note, I think this says it better than I ever could!
https://youtu.be/Et1pZ0kNVTU

3xh · 28-08-2020 08:02PM

I think there’s some double posting going on. Ignore as necessary.

hmmm · 28-08-2020 08:26PM

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-sanofi-strategy-exclusive/exclusive-sanofi-more-confident-about-its-coronavirus-vaccines-idUKKBN25O2OF

"PARIS (Reuters) - Sanofi’s confidence in its coronavirus vaccine candidates has increased this summer as the French drugmaker prepares to start clinical trials, its chief executive told Reuters."

"“The early data is saying that we’re on the right track and that we have a vaccine,” Paul Hudson said in an interview on Friday, referring to the vaccine being developed with GSK."

3xh wrote: »

I think there’s some double posting going on. Ignore as necessary.

I don't think you need to worry about telling people to ignore what is going on.

dexter647 · 28-08-2020 08:39PM

Can we please get this thread back to the informative and positive posts about vaccines and treatments and not have it spoiled by a few:(....There are plenty of other places on boards for what has been posted here lately.

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Comments