COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Santy2015

dexter647 wrote: »

Can we please get this thread back to the informative and positive posts about vaccines and treatments and not have it spoiled by a few:(....There are plenty of other places on boards for what has been posted here lately.

Sure they’re all bundling off to free Gemma from her incarceration

Beasty

nannerbenahs wrote: »

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation have already invested more than $21 million in an MIT project to create a microneedle vaccine delivery system that will inject a reactive die under the recipients skin which can then be scanned by a reader. This pattern will act like an indelible bar code tattoo, enabling the global authorities to monitor and control your whereabouts and behaviour.

The New Zealand State has already decided to remove people from their homes and place them in quarantine facilities (detention centres controlled by the military). Hardly surprising since Michael Ryan of the WHO was talking about this on March 30th.

New Zealand with an estimated population of 5 million and just 22 alleged deaths from COVID 19 in the entire country (a population mortality risk of 0.0004%), and no deaths at all for nearly three months, clearly these measures are not a response to any genuine threat from COVID 19.
Don´t you think the same thing is happening here, just a little more tentatively?

nannerbenahs wrote: »

Thus far, the global response to COVID 19 has deviated little from the Rockefeller’s suggested Lockstep scenario in their 2010 report Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development.

Like Event 201, this is another example of the quite extraordinary prescience of the people who form global governance policy. They can not only predict, in almost perfect detail, what the media will discover and report, but also nature itself.

Removing the “infected” from their homes and incarcerating them in detention centres mirrors the policy suggestion of Dr Michael Ryan from the WHO. While New Zealand is the first nominally democratic state to raid family homes and remove people by force, it certainly won’t be the last. The UK State has already given itself the power to do so in the Health Protections (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020.

Take your conspiracy theories to the correct forum, and do not post in this thread again

Capt'n Midnight

Thierry12 wrote: »

They have to be stored at -70c

Need liquid nitrogen type storage for that?

How long to defrost lol

Dry Ice will do -78.5c and because it's 'dry' you can just use a insulated box. So a complete non-issue even if you move the goal posts a bit.

Defrost time is short because the vials or whatnot are small.



*Liquid Nitrogen would be -196c. It's very low tech, see the picture here http://www.bolandcryo.ie/Services/details/liquid-nitrogen-deliveries.
All you need is a well ventilated place to put it. So a complete non-issue even if you move the goal posts a lot.

says it all really.. this is the same as us bailing out the bankers or not burning the bond holders..****ing joke

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/en/covid-19-vaccine-makers-want-eu-taxpayers-to-pay-for-legal-damages-li.101263

Hmmzis

3xh wrote: »

In the science mag source link you post, regarding non-recipients of a vaccine also allegedly getting narcolepsy, the article quotes the researchers as saying the jury is still out on that claim. It’s down towards the bottom. Yet the jury and GSK themselves have agreed Pandemrix caused the narcolepsy in those who received their vaccine.
It is not correct to use the non-vaccinated people as proof that the vaccinated people were going to get it anyway.

What difference does it make if I keep referring to Pandemrix/Swine Flu, Thalidomide, etc. I need to mention 10 pharma related cock-ups to be valid?

Also, saying the other swine flu vaccines didn’t suffer from the Pandemrix issue like it’s a good thing is missing the point. It shows the randomness of it all and in turn the randomness in what awaits recipients of a vaccine around the world.


On a lighter note, I think this says it better than I ever could!
https://youtu.be/Et1pZ0kNVTU

Here is the actual paper the Science article is based on:
https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/7/294/294ra105

Have a read, it's plenty informative from all aspects.

People who work on protein-peotein interactions, immunology and vaccines have learned a great deal out of it and that should lead to better treatments for the affected people and better inactivation methods for vaccines of that type. The newer types (mRNA, viral vector, VLP, sub-unit, etc.) generally should avoid this issue as they do not encode for the N or E proteins (or any of the nsp stuff), hence removing the 'randomness' you speak of.

The thing is, autoimmune reactions can and do happen with basically any existing whole virus vaccine on the market (inactivated or attenuated) since the viral proteins themselves can do that when your immune system doesn't react in a correct manner to them, be they on a wild type virus or an inactivated one in a syringe. The risks are miniscule though.
It's an important area to study as knowing all those mechanisms informs subsequent efforts at designing and producing vaccines (and treatments for the diseases, regardless of their triggers).


Thalidomide is simply irrelevant to this discussion as it did not go through a clinical trial at all for the intended use case. It's simply not possible to get to that these days.

Geuze

I haven't read all this thread but the new test from Abbott sounds promising.

Cost = USD 5

Result in 15 mins

Not for home use

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/08/the-beginning-of-the-end.html

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/27/thoughts-on-a-new-coronavirus-test-and-on-testing

Gael23

Would there be much of a lag between approval for emergency use and for general use?

mandrake04

Gael23 wrote: »

Would there be much of a lag between approval for emergency use and for general use?

No, EUA is good usually good to go straight away... the FDA can always withdraw them if they become a problem.

JTMan

Interesting WSJ article here (paywall) on the logistics efforts with the distribution of the vaccines.

First, there is the temperature issue:

Moderna Inc. said it expects its vaccine to require minus 20 degrees Celsius storage. Pfizer Inc. said the vaccine it is developing with German partner BioNTech SE will probably have to be stored at minus 70 degrees Celsius, plus or minus 10 degrees. AstraZeneca PLC said it expects the vaccine it is developing with University of Oxford researchers to require refrigeration

Second, there is the fact that the vaccines might be competing with Christmas shopping distribution in November and December ...

if distribution begins during the peak holiday shipping season in November or December, companies will be shipping the drugs when cargo space is at a premium.

“That’s when we would see some difficulty there, just because of the huge amount of volume that hits our network and hits our competitors’ networks around peak season,” Mr. Smith said.

That said, there is some very impressive work going on by UPS and other to accommodate distribution soon.

Gael23

The fact there are conversations happening around distribution is quite encouraging

Micky 32

Gael23 wrote: »

The fact there are conversations happening around distribution is quite encouraging

Lets hope so, it’s becoming clear that we need this vaccine to get our lives back at this stage.

dominatinMC

Micky 32 wrote: »

Lets hope so, it’s becoming clear that we need this vaccine to get our lives back at this stage.

Yep, and this is becoming increasingly apparent in this country as, despite very little deaths (thankfully!), the government are stubbornly insistent on their refusal to reopen more of society. At this stage, it's quite obvious that they are holding out on a vaccine to fully reopen.

Szero

When will a least 1 vaccine become available?

Eric Tool tweeted, citing a PHD study, that there is a 58% chance that it will be in the 1 October 2020 to 31 March 2021 range in the US. (and 1% chance in September).

The UK Health Minister said that if all goes well the Oxford vaccine will be available this year.

The only unofficial Irish estimate I can find is April 2021 "at the earliest".

Nutshell - probably later this year in the UK and US and Q2 2021 in Ireland? Does that sound plausible?

Gael23

Szero wrote: »

When will a least 1 vaccine become available?

Eric Tool tweeted, citing a PHD study, that there is a 58% chance that it will be in the 1 October 2020 to 31 March 2021 range in the US. (and 1% chance in September).

The UK Health Minister said that if all goes well the Oxford vaccine will be available this year.

The only unofficial Irish estimate I can find is April 2021 "at the earliest".

Nutshell - probably later this year in the UK and US and Q2 2021 in Ireland? Does that sound plausible?

So March/April 2021?

hmmm

Szero wrote: »

Nutshell - probably later this year in the UK and US and Q2 2021 in Ireland? Does that sound plausible?

There's too many unknowns at the moment to be certain. The biggest unknown is how well the vaccines work, and we need data from the current trials to know that. A number of reputable commentators say September/October is possible for early results.

Once the trial is over the regulators will review the data. If they see anything in the data which gives them concern, they might block a vaccine or look for additional trials.

Then there's manufacturing & distribution. Even the best case seems to be a few tens of millions of doses by year end which won't go too far. It'll be well into next year before we start seeing much larger-scale availability.

3xh

Micky 32 wrote: »

Lets hope so, it’s becoming clear that we need this vaccine to get our lives back at this stage.

Music to Pharma’s ears.

Sconsey

3xh wrote: »

Music to Pharma’s ears.

Yeah it is, it's music to everyone's ears if the pharma companies can pull this off in such a relatively short timeline. Fair play to them.

Micky 32

3xh wrote: »

Music to Pharma’s ears.

I’m guessing due to some agenda you’re not too keen on people going back to their normal lives?

Gael23

Sconsey wrote: »

Yeah it is, it's music to everyone's ears if the pharma companies can pull this off in such a relatively short timeline. Fair play to them.

Not quite quick enough to save next summer though

hmmm

A sensible warning that a vaccine which is only weakly effective would be a bad choice to implement, even if we had no other alternatives at the time:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31821-3/fulltext

" Deployment of a weakly effective vaccine could actually worsen the COVID-19 pandemic if authorities wrongly assume it causes a substantial reduction in risk, or if vaccinated individuals wrongly believe they are immune, hence reducing implementation of, or compliance with, other COVID-19 control measures. "

Gael23

hmmm wrote: »

A sensible warning that a vaccine which is only weakly effective would be a bad choice to implement, even if we had no other alternatives at the time:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31821-3/fulltext

" Deployment of a weakly effective vaccine could actually worsen the COVID-19 pandemic if authorities wrongly assume it causes a substantial reduction in risk, or if vaccinated individuals wrongly believe they are immune, hence reducing implementation of, or compliance with, other COVID-19 control measures. "

Isn’t that what trials are for?

3xh

hmmm wrote: »

A sensible warning that a vaccine which is only weakly effective would be a bad choice to implement, even if we had no other alternatives at the time:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31821-3/fulltext

" Deployment of a weakly effective vaccine could actually worsen the COVID-19 pandemic if authorities wrongly assume it causes a substantial reduction in risk, or if vaccinated individuals wrongly believe they are immune, hence reducing implementation of, or compliance with, other COVID-19 control measures. "

Ah! So a vaccine may not spare us from all the other mitigations then?! Why not give it anyway with a strict warning to the recipient that it’s not a 100% silver bullet and is to be seen as just another ‘mask’, ‘2 metre distance’, ‘1h45m in a restaurant pub’, ‘wash your hands’ mitigation such that it all helps when used together?

LessOutragePlz

Sconsey wrote: »

Yeah it is, it's music to everyone's ears if the pharma companies can pull this off in such a relatively short timeline. Fair play to them.

Yeah big round of applause for these pharma companies trying to negotiate with the EU so they won't be liable be for any compensation paid to people who suffer side effects as a result of them taking a rushed vaccine.

The European pharmaceutical industry’s vaccines lobby has pushed the EU for exemptions that would protect its members from lawsuits if there are problems with any new coronavirus vaccines.

https://www.ft.com/content/12f7da5b-92c8-4050-bcea-e726b75eef4d

hmmm

Gael23 wrote: »

Isn’t that what trials are for?

The point is that no vaccine is perfect. The FDA are looking for a vaccine which is at least 50% effective, i.e. it will reduce infections by 50%. Obviously they are hoping it will be a lot higher.

What you don't want is a vaccine which is not very effective, people get the vaccine and then think they are immune when in fact they haven't got very much protection. That would accelerate the spread.

It's good that these discussions are being had now, because it will make it easier for the regulators to decide what they should look for when approving a vaccine.

hmmm

Sinovac's (China) vaccine has been approved for emergency use in China.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-vaccines/sinovacs-coronavirus-vaccine-candidate-approved-for-emergency-use-in-china-source-idUSKBN25O0Z3

Can now be given to medical staff & high risk groups.

Gael23

hmmm wrote: »

The point is that no vaccine is perfect. The FDA are looking for a vaccine which is at least 50% effective, i.e. it will reduce infections by 50%. Obviously they are hoping it will be a lot higher.

What you don't want is a vaccine which is not very effective, people get the vaccine and then think they are immune when in fact they haven't got very much protection. That would accelerate the spread.

It's good that these discussions are being had now, because it will make it easier for the regulators to decide what they should look for when approving a vaccine.

What is the typical efficacy of a vaccine that has been developed in the past?

timsey tiger

Gael23 wrote: »

What is the typical efficacy of a vaccine that has been developed in the past?

I googled mmr vaccine efficacy, as that is a vaccine most are familiar with I got this.

"The first dose of the MMR vaccine protects approximately 90% of children against measles, approximately 90% against mumps, and approximately 95% against rubella. Why does my child need a second dose? In approximately 10% of children who receive one dose of MMR, it does not work against the measles virus."

The second mmr jab increases the protection. The annual flu jab, is another vaccine people are commonly aware of its efficacy varies year to year with the different strains of flu arising. Normally the protection from flu is a lot lower than the mmr closer to the 50% range.

mean gene

hmmm wrote: »

Sinovac's (China) vaccine has been approved for emergency use in China.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-vaccines/sinovacs-coronavirus-vaccine-candidate-approved-for-emergency-use-in-china-source-idUSKBN25O0Z3

Can now be given to medical staff & high risk groups.

We don't believe a word that comes out of China they caused this

Hmmzis

Stanfords take at a sub-unit VLP hybrid vaccine candidate:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.28.272518v1.full.pdf+html

If the mice are anything to go by a single shot should do the job. The boost takes it into the stratosphere.

It also adds to the data that is suggesting that the flexiness and instability of the S protein is actually a part of the immune evasion strategy of the virus.

Hmmzis

mean gene wrote: »

We don't believe a word that comes out of China they caused this

Don't attribute malice where ignorance and incompetence are sufficiently explanatory.