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Masks

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  • Options
    #8972
    1990sman
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭1990sman


    wild itchy, some more than others.


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    #8973
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Yes: surgical
    Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »
    The real metrics for an epidemic and deaths and ICU admissions while accounting for the lag. By this rate we should have seen people presenting in ICU by now so it begs the questions as to where this second wave is going to come from?

    If I remember correctly - lots of posters were asking the very same questions when the first spate of cases had already taken off here.

    And as predicted ICU admissions started to rise. I've little doubt it will happen again ...


  • Options
    #8974
    littlecbear
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭littlecbear


    Zaph wrote: »

    "As has already been pointed out by another poster, a significant number of those who died were not in their 80s. People in their 20s and children have died from it."

    79% of all deaths in Ireland to date related to Covid-19 were over the age of 75.

    6 people in Ireland between the age of 15 and 34 have died with Covid-19 and only 1 of those was aged 15 to 24 . Nobody under the age of 15. So at the most, one young person aged 15 or more in Ireland has died where Covid-19 was on their death certificate. Keeping in mind that Covid-19 was recorded as cause of death event in the absence of a positive test, it's not possible to be sure right now that they actually even had the virus.


  • Options
    #8975
    Seanergy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    https://twitter.com/DrZeroCraic/status/1297628907118698497


  • Options
    #8976
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    No: I don't care enough
    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    So a friend of a friend had terminal cancer, he died a few weeks ago, I didn’t know the man but apparently he died and tested positive for covid after the fact.

    That’s just one example where it wasn’t a factor.

    I would like to know how many of those there are amongst those stats. How many had days/weeks to live and tested positive after. How many were simply just too old to fight this (like influenza or pneumonia)

    I don’t think that’s a wild question to ask and I’ve no idea why it triggers you so much.

    sigh.

    Google excess deaths and explain why they are so high. and not even counted as covid19 deaths.
    Covid19 deaths are undercounted if anything.

    Also why do so many anti maskers seem to believe that every doctor in the country has been struck by a stupidity bug that they are incapable of filling out death certs with cause of death anymore?

    Doctors that have (somehow).for years managed to fill in death certs correctly are now incapable?

    Riightt..


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    #8977
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,417 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Seanergy wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/DrZeroCraic/status/1297628907118698497

    Ridiculous. A man on his own working on a car in his driveway alone wearing a mask.

    Jesus wept.


  • Options
    #8978
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    The question has already been asked and answered as best as we can using excess mortality figures there is 1200-1300 increase.
    Nursing homes have a pretty good idea of how many residents they lose per month... there were clear spikes.
    You seem to be aware of this already from earlier posts on the subject and therefore re-raising it on this thread is just obfuscation.

    Nursing houses spike were mainly due to the fact that we emptied hospitals and shipped people right in there. Nobody can argue that nursing house care is not on par of what they could have in hospitals.


  • Options
    #8979
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,927 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Nursing houses spike were mainly due to the fact that we emptied hospitals and shipped people right in there. Nobody can argue that nursing house care is not on par of what they could have in hospitals.

    Multiple other countries saw spikes in nursing home deaths.
    Excess mortality has spiked in country after country as covid-19 had taken people before their time.
    The notion that all or the majority of deaths recorded to covid19 were just about to die regardless has been refuted and those who continue to peddle it now do so on the basis of fake news in support of a political agenda.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #8980
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Can anyone tell me how months ago we were told masks actually contributed to the spread of Covid and now they prevent the spread?


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    #8981
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,927 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me how months ago we were told masks actually contributed to the spread of Covid and now they prevent the spread?

    Well it started in January as the Chinese spead disinformation that the virus was spread primarily by contact.
    It continued here in March as we didnt have enough masks... and they were approached from the view as PPE to protect the wearer.

    Better late than never in late april their true worth is reducing transmission from infected patients was realised here... cue dramatic drop in cases in health and care settings.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #8982
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Yes: to protect myself and others
    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    sigh.

    Google excess deaths and explain why they are so high. and not even counted as covid19 deaths.
    Covid19 deaths are undercounted if anything.

    Also why do so many anti maskers seem to believe that every doctor in the country has been struck by a stupidity bug that they are incapable of filling out death certs with cause of death anymore?

    Doctors that have (somehow).for years managed to fill in death certs correctly are now incapable?

    Riightt..
    I think their new tack is to claim that these would be people who'd die in the next couple years "anyway", so if we eventually look at excess deaths over a multi-year period(starting from covid era) it'll be the same as "normal".


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    #8983
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Well it started in January as the Chinese spead disinformation that the virus was spread primarily by contact.
    It continued here in March as we didnt have enough masks... and they were approached from the view as PPE to protect the wearer.

    Better late than never in late april their true worth is reducing transmission from infected patients was realised here... cue dramatic drop in cases in health and care settings.

    This is not true as Luke O'Neill was on TLLS saying how masks are useless and the virus goes in the eyes.


  • Options
    #8984
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,927 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    This is not true as Luke O'Neill was on TLLS saying how masks are useless and the virus goes in the eyes.

    When did he say that?

    This is him in June backing masks fully.
    https://www.rte.ie/amp/1149435/

    He also says the evidence for masks gets stronger by the day.
    As the data changed he changed his view.

    Please dont deliberately quote out of date info.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #8985
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Well it started in January as the Chinese spead disinformation that the virus was spread primarily by contact.
    It continued here in March as we didnt have enough masks... and they were approached from the view as PPE to protect the wearer.

    Better late than never in late april their true worth is reducing transmission from infected patients was realised here... cue dramatic drop in cases in health and care settings.

    Don't forget the Chinese living here we're buying supplies here and sending them back home in the early days.

    So our masks were useful to the Chinese but weren't for us. Of course, they were only trying to protect supplies here for the healthcare workers.


  • Options
    #8986
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    It is worrying to see so much of a hate around all this. Some people suddenly become national health advice experts just by googling and soaking every bit of news they can find supporting their view.

    To me it looks like we lost common sense. We act like children and somehow perceive others like some sort of challenged people who can not think or take care of themselves. I wonder how it happened that we dumbed down so much.

    Instead of talking, debating and arguing our points we straight switch to hate and immediately dismiss people whose opinion differ from our own quickly attaching some hateful labels like antimaskers and so on.

    What is next? Vigilante squads patrolling shops interrogating people why they do not wear mask? Perhaps some light beating behind a corner to remind them they are killing our old and vulnerable?

    People need to cop on and realize that most of vulnerable and old people or their families already know what to do to minimize their exposure and risk of catching this or any other virus. These people, me included, are sick, not retarded. I can not and will not demand everyone else to step on eggshells around me I have no problem to accept that most of the people have enough of their own problems to care about mine. It is solely my own responsibility to try to stay safe while I am also trying to live my life as best as I can.

    This whole issue become almost religious to some people who go around looking for deviation of what they think others should be doing. Some people do have legitimate reasons not to wear masks and when I see one "maskless antimasker" I smile on them instead of giving them dirty looks or trying to question them. These people do have their reasons not to wear them and I accept it. The same way I accept people who wear one.


  • Options
    #8987
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Yes: surgical
    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Don't forget the Chinese living here we're buying supplies here and sending them back home in the early days.

    So our masks were useful to the Chinese but weren't for us. Of course, they were only trying to protect supplies here for the healthcare workers.

    Much the same as the denial by China that there was any need for travel restrictions into and out of China whilst they themselves strictly closed down all internal travel to and from known Covid hotshots.

    That even had the WHO telling us that there was absolutely no evidence of person to person contact of Covid19

    You couldn't make it up tbh ...


  • Options
    #8988
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Multiple other countries saw spikes in nursing home deaths.
    Excess mortality has spiked in country after country as covid-19 had taken people before their time.
    The notion that all or the majority of deaths recorded to covid19 were just about to die regardless has been refuted and those who continue to peddle it now do so on the basis of fake news in support of a political agenda.

    Nope, it was not refuted. Stats are there for everyone to see. Absolute majority of people who died were old people with other ailments. This virus is killing vulnerable people and there is no doubt about it. Numbers do not lie.


  • Options
    #8989
    Seanergy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Nursing houses spike were mainly due to the fact that we emptied hospitals and shipped people right in there. Nobody can argue that nursing house care is not on par of what they could have in hospitals.

    There was a significant correlation between the proportion of staff with symptomatic COVID-19 and resident numbers with confirmed/suspected COVID-19. Among the 675 unmasked Nursing home staff across twenty-four sites who had confirmed/suspected COVID-19 (23.6%, 159/675) were asymptomatic.

    Extremely detailed study

    Asymptomatic carriage rates and case-fatality of SARS-CoV-2 infection in residents and staff in Irish nursing homes    .

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.11.20128199v1


  • Options
    #8990
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    It is worrying to see so much of a hate around all this. Some people suddenly become national health advice experts just by googling and soaking every bit of news they can find supporting their view.

    To me it looks like we lost common sense. We act like children and somehow perceive others like some sort of challenged people who can not think or take care of themselves. I wonder how it happened that we dumbed down so much.

    Instead of talking, debating and arguing our points we straight switch to hate and immediately dismiss people whose opinion differ from our own quickly attaching some hateful labels like antimaskers and so on.

    What is next? Vigilante squads patrolling shops interrogating people why they do not wear mask? Perhaps some light beating behind a corner to remind them they are killing our old and vulnerable?

    People need to cop on and realize that most of vulnerable and old people or their families already know what to do to minimize their exposure and risk of catching this or any other virus. These people, me included, are sick, not retarded. I can not and will not demand everyone else to step on eggshells around me I have no problem to accept that most of the people have enough of their own problems to care about mine. It is solely my own responsibility to try to stay safe while I am also trying to live my life as best as I can.

    This whole issue become almost religious to some people who go around looking for deviation of what they think others should be doing. Some people do have legitimate reasons not to wear masks and when I see one "maskless antimasker" I smile on them instead of giving them dirty looks or trying to question them. These people do have their reasons not to wear them and I accept it. The same way I accept people who wear one.

    I get your point but some types of things are damaging to the greater good and can't be tolerated.

    They are the intolerant ones, trying to stop others protecting themselves and others and the paradox of tolerance states that a tolerant society must be intolerant of the intolerant.


  • Options
    #8991
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Yes: surgical
    patnor1011 wrote: »
    It is worrying to see so much of a hate around all this. Some people suddenly become national health advice experts just by googling and soaking every bit of news they can find supporting their view.

    To me it looks like we lost common sense. We act like children and somehow perceive others like some sort of challenged people who can not think or take care of themselves. I wonder how it happened that we dumbed down so much.

    Instead of talking, debating and arguing our points we straight switch to hate and immediately dismiss people whose opinion differ from our own quickly attaching some hateful labels like antimaskers and so on.

    What is next? Vigilante squads patrolling shops interrogating people why they do not wear mask? Perhaps some light beating behind a corner to remind them they are killing our old and vulnerable?

    People need to cop on and realize that most of vulnerable and old people or their families already know what to do to minimize their exposure and risk of catching this or any other virus. These people, me included, are sick, not retarded. I can not and will not demand everyone else to step on eggshells around me I have no problem to accept that most of the people have enough of their own problems to care about mine. It is solely my own responsibility to try to stay safe while I am also trying to live my life as best as I can.

    This whole issue become almost religious to some people who go around looking for deviation of what they think others should be doing. Some people do have legitimate reasons not to wear masks and when I see one "maskless antimasker" I smile on them instead of giving them dirty looks or trying to question them. These people do have their reasons not to wear them and I accept it. The same way I accept people who wear one.

    Get where you are coming from ...

    However I dont reckon anyone has an issue with those who 'cant' wear a facemask for medical reasons etc

    On that a question - would you smile on someone who refused to wear a seat belt in the backseat of your car and as a result took out your elderly mother after you had to brake suddenly?

    By wearing a seat belt / mask you are protecting both yourself and others. Thats really not too hard to understand is it?


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    #8992
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    When did he say that?

    This is him in June backing masks fully.
    https://www.rte.ie/amp/1149435/

    He also says the evidence for masks gets stronger by the day.
    As the data changed he changed his view.

    Please dont deliberately quote out of date info.

    0:52. Only useful if you are infected.

    https://youtu.be/g7_P2RmrA6U


  • Options
    #8993
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    When did he say that?

    This is him in June backing masks fully.
    https://www.rte.ie/amp/1149435/

    He also says the evidence for masks gets stronger by the day.
    As the data changed he changed his view.

    Please dont deliberately quote out of date info.

    Watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_P2RmrA6U

    He literally says masks are pointless unless you are infected and that people fidget with the mask and that it goes in through the eyes.

    Which massively contradicts the thinking at the time of the CMO that there's no scientific evidence that masks work. So what is the scientific evidence?What do we know about masks now that we didn't know months ago?


  • Options
    #8994
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    i_surge wrote: »
    I get your point but some types of things are damaging to the greater good and can't be tolerated.

    They are the intolerant ones, trying to stop others protecting themselves and others and the paradox of tolerance states that a tolerant society must be intolerant of the intolerant.

    I get it but in doing so they think we are intolerant. No policy ever had 100% backing and if they think so let them argue their point. We quickly apply some label and in most cases that label is derrogatory. This is a road to nowhere but more hate.
    I said it many times I have no problem with people wearing masks but people seems to have problem with me not wearing one without knowing abything about my situation. I simply avoid going to shops as I am tired of getting dirty looks of everyone passing me and anyone else in the same situation.
    We are in this for a very long run and this virus is going to stay with us. We will have to learn to live with it. Please let us not to have some civil war about it.


  • Options
    #8995
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Masks haven't changed.

    We now have a better understanding how Coronavirus spreads.


  • Options
    #8996
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Yes: surgical
    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    ...What do we know about masks now that we didn't know months ago?

    Tbh that reminds me somewhat of when it was first understood that the earth actually orbited the sun and not the other way round.

    "What do we know about the sun now that we didn't know months ago?"

    This ....

    Graham wrote: »
    Masks haven't changed.

    We now have a better understanding how Coronavirus spreads.


  • Options
    #8997
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭Tork


    Yes: to protect others
    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_P2RmrA6U

    He literally says masks are pointless unless you are infected and that people fidget with the mask and that it goes in through the eyes.

    Which massively contradicts the thinking at the time of the CMO that there's no scientific evidence that masks work. So what is the scientific evidence?What do we know about masks now that we didn't know months ago?

    HE SAID THAT BACK IN FEBRUARY. If you watch his Twitter feed or listen back to the podcasts he does on Pat Kenny's show on Newstalk, you'll understand better why he has changed his thinking on this. But you know that, don't you.


  • Options
    #8998
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    gozunda wrote: »
    Get where you are coming from ...

    However I dont reckon anyone has an issue with those who 'cant' wear a facemask for medical reasons etc

    On that a question - would you smile on someone who refused to wear a seat belt in the backseat of your car and as a result took out your elderly mother after you had to brake suddenly?

    By wearing a seat belt / mask you are protecting both yourself and others. Thats really not too hard to understand is it?

    It is very hard to make comparison which will completely apply. I ask everyone in my car to wear seatbelt but... I actually can not wear one yet I have to drive sometimes. So every time I sit behind wheel I take calculated risk fully knowing that it may cost me while I can not require or expect everyone on the road to go away because I have to go somewhere not wearing one. It is my choice and I have to live with consequences.
    Same go for say diabetics - we cant ban all sugar and chocolate because it may hurt them or take out nuts as some people can die from exposure.

    Not everything is black and white and this topic become so divisive for some people that they think that it is either their way or no way. There is always the middle road yet we seems to not be able to see it.


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    #8999
    Seanergy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_P2RmrA6U

    He literally says masks are pointless unless you are infected and that people fidget with the mask and that it goes in through the eyes.

    Which massively contradicts the thinking at the time of the CMO that there's no scientific evidence that masks work. So what is the scientific evidence?What do we know about masks now that we didn't know months ago?

    Prof O'Neil also says the main reason for wearing a mask is to stop you spreading it, which is very important.

    It's very possible Prof O'Neil did not know about asymptomatic spread on the 28th of Feb when interview happened. The WHO only found out about asymptomatic spread in the 2nd week of February.

    CMO at the time probably knew of asymptomatic spread but in an effort to protect supply used the no scientific evidence that masks work mantra.


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    #9000
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Graham wrote: »
    Masks haven't changed.

    We now have a better understanding how Coronavirus spreads.

    Luke O'Neil was on the late late show in February confirming masks work when you are infected though. So Luke was pretty sure that masks prevented the spread of Covid in the same way they prevent the spread of Covid now.

    What was the new data uncovered about masks? Half of Europe was wearing masks long before us - what did they know about Covid that we didn't?


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    #9001
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭Tork


    Yes: to protect others
    There are now scientific studies which prove that face coverings stop or greatly reduce the number of infected droplets coming from a person's nose and mouth. This one is from the British Medical Journal https://thorax.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/24/thoraxjnl-2020-215748

    F1.large.jpg


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