Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

FintanMcluskey · 19-08-2020 03:51PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

And that's not hysterical hyperbole. At all, at all.

No your right its not.

To many selfish buffons only concerned for their own health and dress up their own fears as concern for others.

Utter selfish clowns

19-08-2020 03:51PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I wouldnt use Mumbai to support your position. They measured a 0.05% to 0.1% IFR.

Sorry had to correct the percentages after rereading the publication.

I would, cases/deaths are off the chart in india. I suspect deaths are seriously under recorded also in the slums. 100 years ago in Ireland we would have just done the same. Life has changed in that time in Ireland and europe. If hospitals fill up in Ireland again the economy will simply tank anyhow. Its not high cases/good economy vs low cases/bad economy. I think its low cases/managing economy until safe treatment vaccine. We have 6 vaccine in stage 3 with hundreds in earlier stages. We will get a vaccine next year. We just have to get better at managing it. Tough but true.

bucketybuck · 19-08-2020 03:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Our r rate has been over 1 for over a month. Signs are not good r rate has to get below one soon or more restrictions will come in until it is below 1.

Over a month? Ok then, thats a sufficient time period to now ask the question, where are all the deaths?

odyssey06 · 19-08-2020 03:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I would, cases/deaths are off the chart in india. I suspect deaths are seriously under recorded also in the slums. 100 years ago in Ireland we would have just done the same. Life has changed in that time in Ireland and europe. If hospitals fill up in Ireland again the economy will simply tank anyhow. Its not high cases/good economy vs low cases/bad economy. I think its low cases/managing economy until safe treatment vaccine. We have 6 vaccine in stage 3 with hundreds in earlier stages. We will get a vaccine next year. We just have to get better at managing it. Tough but true.

I suspect in Mumbai that there may not be so many of the vulnerable demographic alive to be hit by covid-19 in the first instance.

odyssey06 · 19-08-2020 03:56PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Over a month? Ok then, thats a sufficient time period to now ask the question, where are all the deaths?

70% of the cases are under 45.
The concern is that if widespread community transmission re-occurs, it will be harder to protect the vulnerable groups who still need food, medical treatments, home care etc

FintanMcluskey · 19-08-2020 03:57PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

What I mean by that is that among the 1700+ people who are recorded as having died from covid in that period, are approximately 500 people who would have been expected to pass away during that period regardless of covid.

We had covid going through nursing home. The surge in deaths there was not due to spontaneous deaths totally unrelated to covid.
Their deaths were due to covid.

Utter spoofology.

Tony H admitted not all deaths were due to Covid, they died with Covid.

On average 80 die each day in Ireland, where is your figure of 500 expected deaths from

road_high · 19-08-2020 03:57PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No your right its not.

To many selfish buffons only concerned for their own health and dress up their own fears as concern for others.

Utter selfish clowns

To be blunt the country is full to overflowing with people that take a very poor role in maintaining and looking after their own health. For example I know plenty of the “Covid worried” brigade that are still smoking...yet terrified of a respiratory illness.
Dont get me started on obesity....

bucketybuck · 19-08-2020 04:00PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

We had covid going through nursing home. The surge in deaths there was not due to spontaneous deaths totally unrelated to covid.
Their deaths were due to covid.

Tell me something. I fully agree that covid was rampant in nursing homes, completely and utterly rampant throughout that network before people even realised the scale of the problem.

There are I believe 25000+ people living in nursing homes, almost all in the vulnerable category.

If the virus was rampant throughout that 25k of vulnerable people why was the death toll not much higher?

The Belly · 19-08-2020 04:00PM

road_high wrote: »

To be blunt the country is full to overflowing with people that take a very poor role in maintaining and looking after their own health. For example I know plenty of the “Covid worried” brigade that are still smoking...yet terrified of a respiratory illness.
Dont get me started on obesity....

The stress of the covid is probably making them smoke more

odyssey06 · 19-08-2020 04:01PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Utter spoofology.
Tony H admitted not all deaths were due to Covid, they died with Covid.
On average 80 die each day in Ireland, where is your figure of 500 expected deaths from

Spoofology? Spare me the cheap lame debating tricks.

HIQA’s Chief Scientist, Dr Conor Teljeur, said: “Based on an analysis of the death notices reported on RIP.ie since 2010, there is clear evidence of excess deaths occurring since the first reported death due to COVID-19 in Ireland. There were about 1,100 to 1,200 more deaths than we would expect based on historical patterns; a 13% increase between 11 March to 16 June. However, the number of excess deaths is substantially less than the reported 1,709 COVID-19-related deaths over the same period.”

https://www.hiqa.ie/hiqa-news-updates/covid-19-causes-13-increase-deaths-ireland-between-march-and-june-2020-hiqa

19-08-2020 04:02PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Why don’t you just have the balls and admit you would have loved it if the government had locked us all up yesterday. The virus isn’t going anywhere and the lockdown didn’t work it just kicked the can down the road a piece, so why not admit you’d want us all lockdown indefinately.

It’s not going to happen, sorry. I’d rather catch the virus and take my chances than have the rest of my life and freedom taken from me. It’s obvious you musn’t have had much going on in your life pre covid.

Every country in the world is kicking the can to a lesser or greater extent. Some more or less than others. No country has no restrictions at all whereas New Zealand probably is the most extreme. It doesn't really matter what I think. Do I think r rate has to go below 1 soon? Yes. Is it better to get there without extreme lockdown? Yes. I'm not sure if there will another lockdown or not. Its 50/50. These new measure seem very vague, but maybe people will listen and testing/tracing improves also. Otherwise it is not in our hands and we will be locked down again. Don't think anyone wants a lockdown.

19-08-2020 04:02PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Over a month? Ok then, thats a sufficient time period to now ask the question, where are all the deaths?

The reality is, way more people have had Covid in Ireland than the official number. We just weren't testing anywhere near enough at the start. Which means that the death rate and hospitalization rate are far lower.

Now they we are finding more cases and the nursing homes are protected, nobody really dies anymore and hospitalizations are fairly low as well.

The pro lockdown are starting to get frustrated by this for some reason.
They told us the hospitals would get overwhelmed. Bodies would start piling up.

It's simply not going to happen with this very mild illness.

CalamariFritti · 19-08-2020 04:03PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I suspect in Mumbai that there may not be so many of the vulnerable demographic alive to be hit by covid-19 in the first instance.

Granted. Thats the obvious difference. Mumbia slums have 6.5% over 65s vs our 13%. And as we go up in age I imagine the disparity becomes bigger.

So obviously I'm not saying this is representative and that it means we would have the same IFR if we'd just let it go through. But it certainly puts some of the more ridiculous estimates into perspective.

FintanMcluskey · 19-08-2020 04:03PM

road_high wrote: »

To be blunt the country is full to overflowing with people that take a very poor role in maintaining and looking after their own health. For example I know plenty of the “Covid worried” brigade that are still smoking...yet terrified of a respiratory illness.
Dont get me started on obesity....

Thats one positive side effect of Covid, the porkies will need to pull away from the through, turn off the TV and get active.

odyssey06 · 19-08-2020 04:04PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Tell me something. I fully agree that covid was rampant in nursing homes, completely and utterly rampant throughout that network before people even realised the scale of the problem.
There are I believe 25000+ people living in nursing homes, almost all in the vulnerable category.
If the virus was rampant throughout that 25k of vulnerable people why was the death toll not much higher?

It's an interesting question.

Nursing homes did implement infection controls.
Some better than others.
Some nursing homes stayed infection free.
The ones that didn't saw spikes in deaths.

Some people even in nursing homes who were infected recovered with or without hospital treatment. Even among 80 year old for example, the hospitalisation rate is something like 20%.

SAMTALK · 19-08-2020 04:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe it saved some.

Looking at Sweden though, I doubt it saved too many.

But we don't actually know. Did the restrictions work to prevent more deaths or was it mis calculated.

A lot of people dont get that the increase in numbers is worrying not because of the age of those getting it but because of where/who it can be passed on to

People seem to think it's a case of ," right so we did lockdown for 6 months , did as we were asked, now let's get back to normal."

topper75 · 19-08-2020 04:08PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

The virus isn’t going anywhere and the lockdown didn’t work it just kicked the can down the road a piece

The lockdown was always going to fail because it never had a clear goal.

It drifted from managing ICU beds to some kind of virus eradication lunacy, and probably everything in between. Death by committee.

Micky 32 · 19-08-2020 04:10PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what I think. .

It does matter when you’re in a big debate. You have to put all your cards on the table so all the other posters know what they dealing and debating with.

19-08-2020 04:14PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

You have provided a graph showing "Australia" when we were talking about Melbourne! Look at the graph titled "Source of Covid-19 infections in Victoria".

The ignorance and deflection, constant goal-post moving with anti-relaxers is torture to try to discuss with.

I thought Melbourne was in Austrailia?

My graph proves two surges.

Melbourne had cases in March April which went down to a trickle in May and now much higher due to widespread community transmission the second time. They just managed imported cases much better than we did in March hence much smaller deaths.

CalamariFritti · 19-08-2020 04:19PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Spoofology? Spare me the cheap lame debating tricks.

HIQA’s Chief Scientist, Dr Conor Teljeur, said: “Based on an analysis of the death notices reported on RIP.ie since 2010, there is clear evidence of excess deaths occurring since the first reported death due to COVID-19 in Ireland. There were about 1,100 to 1,200 more deaths than we would expect based on historical patterns; a 13% increase between 11 March to 16 June. However, the number of excess deaths is substantially less than the reported 1,709 COVID-19-related deaths over the same period.”

https://www.hiqa.ie/hiqa-news-updates/covid-19-causes-13-increase-deaths-ireland-between-march-and-june-2020-hiqa

To be fair 'spoofology' is probably a little inciting.

But it is official that we count someone as a COVID death if they tested positive at any stage regardless whether in the end they died from it or with it.
We also count suspected, means we count deaths as COVID when they never ever got tested but the symptoms indicate it may have been COVID.

There can be no doubt that we're over counting as a result of that. Are there actual figures how many are 'with' and 'suspected' I don't know.

The Belly · 19-08-2020 04:21PM

Why not just report the figures full breakdown no vested interests involved and then call for a vote.If you old enough to vote your old enough to make up your own mind, How hard could that be to organise?

19-08-2020 04:24PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

It does matter when you’re in a big debate. You have to put all your cards on the table so all the other posters know what they dealing and debating with.

Well I then went on to to tell you. We either do this the easy or the hard way. Easy way is everyone as a society has some restrictions to live with to get r rate below 1. R rate cannot be below 1 with all restrictions lifted and loose border controls. We either manage that process well as a society and country choosing what we can give up and what we think is important to us. If we can't do that the alternative is blunt lockdown that gets virus under control and hospitals empty out again in time. Nobody wants lockdown but it will be out of our hands if cases do not stabilise soon.

Plumbthedepths · 19-08-2020 04:24PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK. Just act normal like northern italy in February and wait for absolute carnage. They and we had an excuse in February/March due to underestimating it. Its really not as simplistic as just lit it rip through society and see who is left standing. Ain't going to happen in Europe anyway. Maybe you should move to Mumbai, they are more in keeping with your views.

Ok you don't want to answer my question. Sound.

Penfailed · 19-08-2020 04:58PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

There's only one layer worth mentioning; the virus is not dangerous at all.

Wow.

facehugger99 · 19-08-2020 05:17PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK. Just act normal like northern italy in February and wait for absolute carnage. .

I'd settle for us acting like Northern Italy now. Restaurants, bars, water parks, shops, cafes all open.
People getting on with living and enjoying their lives.

Meanwhile in Laois and Offaly viable businesses and jobs sacrificed to placate hysterical moanbags.

Penfailed · 19-08-2020 06:16PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Democracy is dead in Ireland.

The restrictions and police state are here to stay until the UN get involved and remove the tyrannical flute MM

Catch yerself on. Ridiculous comments.

FintanMcluskey · 19-08-2020 06:21PM

70% of all nursing home cases survived.

I imagine eating a banana would carry more risk for a nursing home patient.

Sadly we have flushed our children's lives down the toilet with this hysterical nonsense

joseywhales · 19-08-2020 06:38PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

70% of all nursing home cases survived.

I imagine eating a banana would carry more risk for a nursing home patient.

Sadly we have flushed our children's lives down the toilet with this hysterical nonsense

30% of residence who eat a banana die from the banana?

We have a big problem? is there cyanide in the bananas?

bettyoleary · 19-08-2020 06:39PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

70% of all nursing home cases survived.

I imagine eating a banana would carry more risk for a nursing home patient.

Sadly we have flushed our children's lives down the toilet with this hysterical nonsense

What kind of cases ??Suit cases. Nut Cases? What are you talking about?. There is no such thing in humanity as cases. We are talking about human beings, Our friends, family children. Did you look into taking any risks yet Fintan???? I doubt it just motor mouthing on here again. Nothing changed in last few days

Tokyo · 19-08-2020 06:42PM

Mod: @bush - don't post in the thread again.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings