Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

lee_baby_simms

Lundstram wrote: »

Any politician than switches party to enhance their career should not be in any position of power. He changes his mind depending on whch way the wind is blowing. An absolute spoofer.

He’s spineless and charmless in equal measure.

bucketybuck

robbiezero wrote: »

Effectively zero risk.
IMO their risk has increased since masks came in. I now see people stopped chatting to each other, practically jumping on each other to get stuff off shelves etc.

Sitting in a pub watching the CL match last night and I seen a young girl enter wearing a mask, run up to another young girl and throw her arms around her for a long hug, then start chatting while still wearing the mask.

And that is the danger of mixed up messaging. Those girls would have been safer without the masks but keeping some distance from each other, just as it was back in March/April. Had the govt forgot about the masks and instead kept hammering home the "wash hands and stay apart" message I suspect cases would not be increasing as they are.

odyssey06

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sitting in a pub watching the CL match last night and I seen a young girl enter wearing a mask, run up to another young girl and throw her arms around her for a long hug, then start chatting while still wearing the mask.
And that is the danger of mixed up messaging. Those girls would have been safer without the masks but keeping some distance from each other, just as it was back in March/April. Had the govt forgot about the masks and instead kept hammering home the "wash hands and stay apart" message I suspect cases would not be increasing as they are.

Some people never started distancing.
Some people started slipping on distancing before masks came in mandatory.
Distancing and washing hands isn't enough.
There's zero foundation for the idea that masks have lead to an increase in cases.
All the evidence from other countries and from the health and care settings in Ireland is that masks are effective.

The Belly

odyssey06 wrote: »

Some people never started distancing.
Some people started slipping on distancing before masks came in mandatory.
Distancing and washing hands isn't enough.
There's zero foundation for the idea that masks have lead to an increase in cases.
All the evidence from other countries and from the health and care settings in Ireland is that masks are effective.

So thats that we go around wearing masks all day every day for as long as it takes

namloc1980

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you want some comedy gold, watch Stephen Donnelly getting interviewed by Zara king.

Starts saying that schools are a controlled environment and homes are not. Almost implying kids are safer at school.

Then starts getting really flustered and talking about how trampolines are dangerous for kids... can’t believe what I watched...

This man is our minister for health!

Unbelievable car crash interview. Beyond bad.

odyssey06

The Belly wrote: »

So thats that we go around wearing masks all day every day for as long as it takes

Given that it's a low cost, low impact economically measure the general trend will be masks in more settings not less.
For exampe France just mandated them in all offices.

They aren't a magic bullet, neither masks, social distancing or handwashing in isolation protect you from all avenues of infection. But for example, we've already seen social distancing on public transport reduce to 1m with the introduction of mandatory masks.

JRant

odyssey06 wrote: »

Some people never started distancing.
Some people started slipping on distancing before masks came in mandatory.
Distancing and washing hands isn't enough.
There's zero foundation for the idea that masks have lead to an increase in cases.
All the evidence from other countries and from the health and care settings in Ireland is that masks are effective.

The numbers have been rising since the introduction of face masks. Same across other countries that have recently implemented masks.

odyssey06

JRant wrote: »

The numbers have been rising since the introduction of face masks. Same across other countries that have recently implemented masks.

There's a whole thread for masks here so I'm not going to duplicate the info on this thread... in short, masks were brought in as other restrictions lifted and in response to rising cases. Countries which had lifted masks restrictions re-instated them as cases rose.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058066011&page=572

Spanish Eyes

Sorry now but that head of an egg Donnelly has no talk on Harrris,

And all this talk of who did or didn't opt out of third level is a joke.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The restrictions won't be eased for the rest of your and my life, of that I have no doubt.

There will always be a dangerous seasonal illness

Jesus.

Assetbacked

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/covid-19-let-s-stop-pretending-we-can-be-new-zealand-1.4334048?mode=amp

IT opinion piece today, "Let's stop pretending we can be NZ".

It's about time the ignorant loons like McConkey etc. are not given free reign to spout their total bollox about crushing the curve and copying NZ. It's great to wake up and see such a strong article calling out the BS of those thinking 0 covid cases is the end goal in Ireland. More evidence the tide is turning and our views in this thread are being vindicated.

This article is particularly great to read due to its author's background;

"Dr Jack Lambert is professor of medicine and infectious diseases, Mater and UCD School of Medicine".

_Kaiser_

Well, as I and may others here predicted, it looks like the economic and social costs of all this have started to overrule the medical advice:

Public health experts have privately warned the Government that the country may have to return to a full lockdown if the increase in Covid-19 cases continues.

But there is strong resistance to any return to lockdown in Government with senior figures believing it would be impossible to manage.

Several senior sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, have confirmed to The Irish Times that the prospect of return to a full lockdown has been mooted during informal discussions in recent days. However, Government figures have made clear that they do not believe this option can be taken for social and economic reasons.

It is understood that leaders of the three Government parties and other senior figures discussed the prospect of returning to lockdown over the weekend but agreed that this could not happen, and made this clear to public health experts. The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) did not recommend a return to full lockdown in its advice to Government on Monday

Could just be my read of it, but that last paragraph makes it sound like NPHET were going to recommend just that until they were told no at the weekend. That and the sources for the article insisting on anonymity makes you wonder if NPHET need to be more firmly put back in their box - clear case of the tail wagging the dog.

Of course, Government (well half of it anyway) have only themselves to blame here. They created this situation when they abdicated responsibility to this group back in March.

Penfailed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well, as I and may others here predicted, it looks like the economic and social costs of all this have started to overrule the medical advice:



Could just be my read of it, but that last paragraph makes it sound like NPHET were going to recommend just that until they were told no at the weekend. That and the sources for the article insisting on anonymity makes you wonder if NPHET need to be more firmly put back in their box - clear case of the tail wagging the dog.

Of course, Government (well half of it anyway) have only themselves to blame here. They created this situation when they abdicated responsibility to this group back in March.

Blame the government for not making it's own decisions...and then blame the government for making it's own decisions. Okay.

FintanMcluskey

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well, as I and may others here predicted, it looks like the economic and social costs of all this have started to overrule the medical advice:



Could just be my read of it, but that last paragraph makes it sound like NPHET were going to recommend just that until they were told no at the weekend. That and the sources for the article insisting on anonymity makes you wonder if NPHET need to be more firmly put back in their box - clear case of the tail wagging the dog.

Of course, Government (well half of it anyway) have only themselves to blame here. They created this situation when they abdicated responsibility to this group back in March.

I see they are now reporting on the miniscule numbers in hospital on the radio this morning, which I hadn't heard before.

Usually it would be smoke and mirrors reporting

_Kaiser_

Penfailed wrote: »

Blame the government for not making it's own decisions...and then blame the government for making it's own decisions. Okay.

Come on now.. you know exactly what I meant. The previous Government created this situation by abdicating the key decisions to NPHET when it was obvious that a more comprehensive view/basis for decisions was needed - the economic and social consequences of which are being felt now as the new Government (which contains half of the previous one) realise they have run out of road to kick this particular can down.

But I'll ask you an open, honest question (and to anyone else who is "pro" restrictions)

What is the basis for your stance?

- Are you personally in that most vulnerable group?
- Are you genuinely fearful of catching the virus?
- Are you happy to let the experts decide what's best for you?
- Is is that you resent others who don't fit one of the above categories?

I'm being serious here. I cannot understand how someone would look at the (thankfully) very low numbers of deaths, very low number of serious outcomes (forget case numbers - outcomes are the key metric), serious economic damage and social division, and yet still be here brow-beating and outright insulting people who are instead saying "hang on a minute"

What's even more obvious now is that the advice will HAVE to be tempered by economic, social and indeed political necessity in the coming weeks. School buses are the prime example - from it has to be limited socially distanced numbers a few weeks ago, to it's OK to have the bus full now. Where's the medical/scientific basis for that?

The truth is that our response all along has been political. In March it was because Leo V (weak, vain populist that he is) was terrified of making a decision (the hallmark of his previous few years as Taoiseach - hence why nothing got done) so willingly handed the reins over to Dr Tony H.

Tony and NPHET are understandably only coming at this from the most conservative medical standpoint of getting the virus spread to zero and their advice reflected this fact. It didn't matter if this was actually necessary or proportionate - it was based on academic models and that single objective.

Of course in the real world outside the lab, the social and economic cost has been enormous and increasingly divisive, hence why a more nuanced and targeted response was what was needed - especially as it became clear of which parts of society were actually at greatest risk.

But, as usual in Ireland, we have to do things the hard way, or we adopt foreign policies (as we did here) and give them enough of an "Irish twist" to defeat the original purpose.... and that is why we are now facing into a autumn and winter that will arguably be a LOT harder than it had to be.

TheCitizen

Lundstram wrote: »

Any politician than switches party to enhance their career should not be in any position of power. He changes his mind depending on whch way the wind is blowing. An absolute spoofer.

The people who voted for him were worse. He built his reputation attacking FF and then went and joined them when the opportunity arose. I was amazed that he kept his seat.

Just goes to show you don’t have to be from rural Kerry or Tipp to be a successful gombeen. East coast commuter zones also have plenty of craven and foolish voters willing to vote for a chancer or a gombeenman on the promise of getting something done which hardly ever happens.

walus

About time someone looked into all this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X21UboS93qc

Well done Germany. About time someone tells the truth about this pandemic of panic.

I was beginning to think it would never happen, but the tide really is turning so much over the last week.

We've had several leaks coming out from ministers criticizing our draconian measures and overall approach. Several big companies / organisations openly showing their frustration at the government / NPHET. The comments on here and other sites have noticeably changed. Even the media are starting to turn the screw a small bit. Zara King put a decent enough bit of pressure on Donnelly last night and he cracked, started waffling on about trampolines been dangerous.

The new government are doing themselves no favours. They don't even seem to know themselves what the restrictions are, when they start, when they end etc.

I think we're going to need to see a few hundred deaths over the next month or two if we want to justify keeping this up.
The will of the people is fading fast.

Idbatterim

Im surprised its taken this long. People were only going to go along with nphet , media , rte in particilar and government bull****, for so long! Im talking about the masses here, many of us have realised what idiotic bull**** most of it has been , all along!

The other half of me thinks, come on, lock it all down again. Wait a few years for a vaccine... or maybe there will never be one... if that sounds outrageous, its what this governnent have done on a smaller scale.

gral6

We are in it together ! Like ffg and Nphet , we are getting state guaranteed gold plate salaries and our big pensions are on the way ! Stay home, save lives !

Assetbacked

gral6 wrote: »

We are in it together ! Like ffg and Nphet , we are getting state guaranteed gold plate salaries and our big pensions are on the way ! Stay home, save lives !

Lock up your granny, take down the trampoline and watch Netflix, it will all be over very soon when the vaccine arrives.

Hysteria has taken over the world over the last few years in particular. Especially since social media.

We can't even have a bad day of weather anymore without multiple headlines of a "Doomsday" storm coming. People rushing out and buying food, water, candles, toilet paper. Then the actual bad weather arrives and people see that it is nothing we haven't experienced before.

The same applies to Covid. People were saying the death rate was 10%, millions would die etc. Everyone panicked. Countries all jumped into lockdown, crashing the economy for years to come and all the other consequences.

The actual reality is a very mild illness that didn't even cause death in the majority of nursing home cases. Death rate will probably eventually be 0.1%.

We don't need restrictions. People need to take personal responsibility based on their own health and circumstances. As a country, we need to accept that around 0.1% of cases may die. Yes thats right, I said the word die. A word that makes people very uncomfortable these days when mentioned alongside Covid.

GPoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU3OibcindQ

Ivor Cummins explains Casedemic

facehugger99

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We don't need restrictions. People need to take personal responsibility based on their own health and circumstances. As a country, we need to accept that around 0.1% of cases may die. Yes thats right, I said the word die. A word that makes people very uncomfortable these days when mentioned alongside Covid.

What if I want to live in a world where nobody ever dies and I don't care how much it costs?

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

Hysteria has taken over the world over the last few years in particular. Especially since social media.

Hugely significant - you have got to the nub of it right there. Such a huge bulk of regular media, and especially social media, has been about threats that never materialise. It just illustrates for me how fear is the greatest driving force in the human mind. Good stories don't sell.

completedit

The only contagiousness that is really damaging is the legitimacy and justification of hysteria driven fear.

Captain_Crash

topper75 wrote: »

Hugely significant - you have got to the nub of it right there. Such a huge bulk of regular media, and especially social media, has been about threats that never materialise. It just illustrates for me how fear is the greatest driving force in the human mind. Good stories don't sell.

While not trying to downplay how serious this virus is to some, I genuinely believe had this happened in a world where social media didn't exist, we would not have the mass hysteria and in turn, economic catastrophe we are currently seeing globally. My view is social media fuels this and things snowball from there

completedit

Captain_Crash wrote: »

While not trying to downplay how serious this virus is to some, I genuinely believe had this happened in a world where social media didn't exist, we would not have the mass hysteria and in turn, economic catastrophe we are currently seeing globally. My view is social media fuels this and things snowball from there

It all started with the videos and testimonies from Italian doctors in February. It was just a meme in this part of the world until the middle of February. I believe China's response forced our hand a little as well. I believe the EU and national governments wanted to show themselves to be strong in time of crisis. They backed themselves into a corner. At the start of the summer, the EU's advice was that 'Europe was open for travel and holidays' but by then, governments had diverged in how they were responding to the virus.

facehugger99

Captain_Crash wrote: »

While not trying to downplay how serious this virus is to some, I genuinely believe had this happened in a world where social media didn't exist, we would not have the mass hysteria and in turn, economic catastrophe we are currently seeing globally. My view is social media fuels this and things snowball from there

100%

What's worse is that governments are aligning policy to placate the social media hysteria.

lee_baby_simms

completedit wrote: »

It all started with the videos and testimonies from Italian doctors in February. It was just a meme in this part of the world until the middle of February. I believe China's response forced our hand a little as well. I believe the EU and governments wanted to show themselves to be strong in time of crisis.

It is a bizarre point in time we find ourselves in though isn't it?

At times it feels like many people didn't know death existed until covid came along. Now its all about preventable deaths from covid without any acknowledgement of the preventable deaths that are occurring and are to come because of these myopic restrictions.