Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

JRant

AUDI20 wrote: »

Which by the way they have paid a lot more into than the under 45s

That's not how it works, people paying into the system now cover almost all the expenditure. There is no pot of gold squirreled away to find pensions and health care. That's the social contract we've all signed up for. Even health insurance puts a greater cost on younger members to cover the older members who use the vast majority of resources. Also, by the time those now under 45 eventually get to retire at 68/69/70 or whatever the age may be they will be relying on the younger generation to cover there end.

Plumbthedepths

AUDI20 wrote: »

Which by the way they have paid a lot more into than the under 45s

Obviously they didn't or we wouldn't have one of the worst health services in Europe .

niallo27

storker wrote: »

Nobody was locked at home for the past 6 months.

Ah cmon, if your 18 to 24, it must feel like they were. You have to admit that, they are bored and frustrated as ****.

SAMTALK

niallo27 wrote: »

Ah cmon, if your 18 to 24, it must feel like they were. You have to admit that, they are bored and frustrated as ****.

Werent we all ? Dont think it was exclusive to 18-24

JRant

SAMTALK wrote: »

Who contaminated the surface.

I actually think that the mask wearing is making people a little complacent with regards hand hygiene and social distancing.

Who knows, it could have been a 5 year old for all we know. Do we hold them responsible?

Hand hygiene I can get behind, there's decade upon decade of evidence that it works. Social distancing, not so much. I've not read anything that states clearly how and why it is effective and the current guidance does nothing to ease mind on it.

SAMTALK

JRant wrote: »

Who knows, it could have been a 5 year old for all we know. Do we hold them responsible?

Hand hygiene I can get behind, there's decade upon decade of evidence that it works. Social distancing, not so much. I've not read anything that states clearly how and why it is effective and the current guidance does nothing to ease mind on it.

We all have to take responsibility . We have to teach our children.

It will never be 100% but if everyone did their own little bit it would make life so much easier.

John O.Groats

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I was just responding in kind to the post I quoted.

Anyone who thinks giving Gardai unprecedented powers is the priority here is clearly on a wind up.

I assure you I`m not. If the selfish idiots who attend house parties and see no issues with flouting the rules regarding the pub restaurant regulations and go slobbering all over each other and who are largely the same cohort who don't give a **** about social distancing, mask wearing etc. can`t be themselves trusted to modify their behaviour then strict action needs to be taken to make them comply including giving the Gardaí extra powers.

HeidiHeidi

i_surge wrote: »

Going round in circles Heidi.

It is the only option that isn't relying on a lot of good luck

Saddest thing is there will probably be a spate of useless porous lockdown lites anyway that won't work.

Plan it, do it right and do it once, increase quality of life for everyone and set up the economy for a proper return to normality.

How do you seal the borders?


I'm going to keep asking until someone who suggests this actually gives an answer, any answer (and don't just say "clever diplomacy" again).


We can't close our borders, that's just a fact.


And that's before you get to what exactly you mean by "a proper return to normality".

AUDI20

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Obviously they didn't or we wouldn't have one of the worst health services in Europe .

Oh they did but how it was spent is a different matter, and I would disagree with haven't the worst health service in Europe having lived in England for many years before coming home

jackal

SAMTALK wrote: »

They werent locked at home, just asked to restrict movement

I do feel sorry for the youth but we all have to make sacrifices and stop thinking of just ourselves for a while.

Problem is the goal post keep moving and there is no end date in sight. Life cannot pause forever, it's been 6 months of finger wagging and no social lives.

Im married and spend most of my time at home and my social life would be fairly tame, and even I am sick to the teeth of this. Socialising would have been a huge part of life in my late teens, 20s and well into my 30s.

"a while" suggests a short time - not 6 months with no end in sight. Its easy to dismiss things other people want to do because it does not affect you, its actually the the same argument you are making. Empathy required for both older vulnerable people who need to avoid it and for younger people who will not get seriously ill from it, but have to drastically alter their lives.

Remember this was all sold with 30,000 dead by October!

Plumbthedepths

AUDI20 wrote: »

Oh they did but how it was spent is a different matter, and I would disagree with haven't the worst health service in Europe having lived in England for many years before coming home

I said one of the worst. Their voting pattern is responsible for how the money was spent.

John O.Groats

bush wrote: »

Definitely a troll

Post reported.

SAMTALK

jackal wrote: »

Problem is the goal post keep moving and there is no end date in sight. Life cannot pause forever, it's been 6 months of finger wagging and no social lives.

Im married and spend most of my time at home and my social life would be fairly tame, and even I am sick to the teeth of this. Socialising would have been a huge part of life in my late teens, 20s and well into my 30s.

"a while" suggests a short time - not 6 months with no end in sight. Its easy to dismiss things other people want to do because it does not affect you, its actually the the same argument you are making. Empathy required for both older vulnerable people who need to avoid it and for younger people who will not get seriously ill from it, but have to drastically alter their lives.

Remember this was all sold with 30,000 dead by October!

Im sick to the teeth of it too . Work and home, work and home.

I miss my social life and the sporting events I would spend the summer going to .

TBF 30,000 dead by October was probably a scare tactic. I still say the biggest fear is a large surge as our health system just could not handle it and no one knows how this will play out now
I have kids in the 20 - 27 age bracket and live in a rural area so you can imagine how bored they were .

GocRh

Colleague from HR just mentioned that Garda immigration offices have closed from today, following yesterday's restrictions. My company has been trying to get non-EU employees registered for months.

Multinational companies will certainly take a very hard look at future investment decisions in Ireland if we keep on closing services that are essential to the economy for no good reason.

If retail and restaurants are allowed to be open, how come an essential government service needs to close???

AUDI20

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I said one of the worst. Their voting pattern is responsible for how the money was spent.

Thats a stupid comment to be honest, How did they know what the Government would do when elected and maybe not even those they voted for got into power

odyssey06

GocRh wrote: »

Colleague from HR just mentioned that Garda immigration offices have closed from today, following yesterday's restrictions. My company has been trying to get non-EU employers registered for months.
Multinational companies will certainly take a very hard look at future investment decisions in Ireland if we keep on closing services that are essential to the economy for no good reason.
If retail and restaurants are allowed to be open, how come an essential government service needs to close???

Very strange.
The only thing related to offices in yesterday's restrictions was to work from home as a recommendation.
If they can't provide the service working from home, the office should have remained open.

acequion

jackal wrote: »

Its easy to dismiss things other people want to do because it does not affect you, its actually the the same argument you are making. Empathy required for both older vulnerable people who need to avoid it and for younger people who will not get seriously ill from it, but have to drastically alter their lives.

You hit the nail on the head with the above. The zealots who come preaching on here with insulting remarks about young people socialising have ZERO empathy and you'd wonder if they were ever young. Same lack of empathy towards older people sick to the teeth of restrictions and worried about being old during this horrible time. Same lack of empathy towards people who need connectivity with other countries for all sorts of good reasons. Just zero empathy and total zealotry.

And to the dismay of many it looks very much like that same element of zealotry and lack of empathy is hugely prevalent in this new Govt. And it seems that a great many people have switched off and are doing their own thing. You need smart governance to ensure buy in and individual responsibility. Not zealotry and authoritarianism.

bush

John O.Groats wrote: »

Post reported.

Why don't you ring the guards too whole your at it

bucketybuck

SAMTALK wrote: »

I still say the biggest fear is a large surge as our health system just could not handle it

And why not?

Wasnt "flatten the curve" all about buying time for the health service? So what have they been doing with that time?

SAMTALK

acequion wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head with the above. The zealots who come preaching on here with insulting remarks about young people socialising have ZERO empathy and you'd wonder if they were ever young. Same lack of empathy towards older people sick to the teeth of restrictions and worried about being old during this horrible time. Same lack of empathy towards people who need connectivity with other countries for all sorts of good reasons. Just zero empathy and total zealotry.

And to the dismay of many it looks very much like that same element of zealotry and lack of empathy is hugely prevalent in this new Govt. And it seems that a great many people have switched off and are doing their own thing. You need smart governance to ensure buy in and individual responsibility. Not zealotry and authoritarianism.

If you're referring to me , I wasnt preaching or insulting young people. I stated that house parties will rise once back in college. I acknowledged that it was hard on them just as it was hard on everyone. why should they get more sympathy that other people.

What about the families who have mortgages and bills but risk losing 1 or both jobs. ? What about families with people with underlying conditions who are living in fear everyday ?

Why should the youth get more symapthy than any other group of people at the minute.

SAMTALK

bucketybuck wrote: »

And why not?

Wasnt "flatten the curve" all about buying time for the health service? So what have they been doing with that time?

It was about not over whelming the system , not buying time for it

Plumbthedepths

AUDI20 wrote: »

Thats a stupid comment to be honest, How did they know what the Government would do when elected and maybe not even those they voted for got into power

It's really not. It wasn't my generation that voted for a party that a abolished rates. Lower taxes less money to spend on the important stuff. As an another poster pointed out they only contributed to the day to day costs.
I personally believe pitting one section of society against another is not good and it rarely ends well.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

Very strange.
The only thing related to offices in yesterday's restrictions was to work from home as a recommendation.
If they can't provide the service working from home, the office should have remained open.

It was more than a recommendation. Of course government offices should be closed. Will it be a slower service behind closed doors yes. If government is asking private sector businesses to close offices and employees WFH not much of an example if government offices are still. open. All these decisions collectively will help. Otherwise if this fails to bring our r rate down we will have greater restrictions and ultimately locked down. These restrictions are not penalties they are to keep cases from increasing. At the moment we have the 4th highest rate of increase in Europe. Its that simple. We try to control spread with some movement or else draconian lockdown than we know works but is very costly for society and Economy. No such thing as a free lunch.

walus

Just trying to do some decent day's work from home as I'm "restricting my movements" after coming back from holidays. I developed, what I believe is a covid-19 related problem, an acute back pain. Do you guys think this is one of the very many various symptoms widely acknowledged which will lead eventually to another covid-19 related death? My wife says that this is from slouching on the couch. Is she onto something or should i rather believe the "experts" on the telly?

And on a more serious note, the government lacks fundamental skill of decision making not to mention the ability of second-order thinking. They are now debating about stuff they should have discussed and sorted back in March/April. They are trying to solve problems that are simply the consequences of poor thinking and decision making. Shambolic really.

odyssey06

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why is that a priority when house parties aren't what the new outbreaks are being linked to?
I'm not saying take no action at all on house parties, I'm questioning why it's being made a priority when there are bigger concerns.

Given the timelines on new legislation in the area, I think you have to make it a legislative priority now if you want to be able to take action on it in future e.g. especially for colleges.

niallo27

SAMTALK wrote: »

Im sick to the teeth of it too . Work and home, work and home.

I miss my social life and the sporting events I would spend the summer going to .

TBF 30,000 dead by October was probably a scare tactic. I still say the biggest fear is a large surge as our health system just could not handle it and no one knows how this will play out now
I have kids in the 20 - 27 age bracket and live in a rural area so you can imagine how bored they were .

What is this based on, it hasn't happened in any other country since restrictions so why would it happen here, we already proved we can take over private hospitals if needed.

SAMTALK

niallo27 wrote: »

What is this based on, it hasn't happened in any other country since restrictions so why would it happen here, we already proved we can take over private hospitals if needed.

Since the beginning ICU beds and ventilators have been the issue and trying to avoid admissions to hospitals because of the lack of number of beds

odyssey06

SAMTALK wrote: »

Since the beginning ICU beds and ventilators have been the issue and trying to avoid admissions to hospitals because of the lack of number of beds

The latest numbers on RTE were:
* 7 covid-19 patients in ICU
* 4 suspected covid-19 patients in ICU
* 31 vacant intensive care beds.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

What is this based on, it hasn't happened in any other country since restrictions so why would it happen here, we already proved we can take over private hospitals if needed.

Melbourne/Israel/Iran all have had big second surges. Cases are rising in practically every country in Europe since July. When it gets to a certain point its too late as we saw in March. We have no choice but to hunt this virus down. Our r rate has been over 1 for over a month. Signs are not good r rate has to get below one soon or more restrictions will come in until it is below 1.

SAMTALK

odyssey06 wrote: »

The latest numbers on RTE were:
* 7 covid-19 patients in ICU
* 4 suspected covid-19 patients in ICU
* 31 vacant intensive care beds.

Yes at the minute. If you read my posts I said restrictions needed for the winter months to prevent surge in cases and overcrowding of hospitals .