How will schools be able to go back in September?

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Haven't seen that anywhere, in fact surprisingly the unions seem to be optimistic albeit there's some concerns about the tight time frame involved. Maybe even they realise it's the best that can be achieved in a bad situation.

Teachers unions can insist all they like and they might secure masks for their members however they don't get to dictate what hundreds of thousands of children do.

Children don't have a choice about going to school in the same way that they would in going to a shop or on public transport.

So what will ASTI insist on, come to school in a mask or be home schooled? Never going to happen, can you imagine the legal fallout for starters.

https://www.asti.ie/news/asti-requests-minister-to-seek-review-of-medical-advice-for/

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'd imagine they mean for their members, and they are asking for review not insisting on everyone wearing masks like you said.

looks like more than review for members..

querying fact phase 4 reopening hasn't even got green light yet and also that significant changes have occurred to public health policies in the interim including everyone wearing masks In retail space

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So not everyone then?

I imagine everyone who can possibly wear them in post primary.

But who knows maybe there is a perfectly logical medical explanation as to why you have to wear one nipping in for bread and not sitting in a packed class room with little ventilation.

Lillyfae wrote: »

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I want at risk children to be safe. I want immuno compromised children to stay healthy. I want special needs children to have their needs properly met. I want teachers to have a safe work environment. Of course I do! Unsafe opening of schools will result in nothing except a higher mortality rate eventually. I think that the resources needed to include a centralised facilitation of online platforms, with devices being provided to teachers who are immunocompromised and immunocompromised children who don't have the means to provide their own, so that they can all work from home. If broadband is a problem, it doesn't need to be live teaching, or the teacher could be provided with a location to use adequate broadband from. I think that everyone on the register of teachers who is not immunocompromised, already in employment, or abroad needs to be utilised on the sub panels, or risk losing their registration. I think whole schools need to be reconfigured or extended or rebuilt with the input of occupational hazard/ public health expert risk assessments BEFORE they can be opened.

But ya, I'm just here to have a go at teachers, sure.

You say this, and yet whenever teachers with experience of working in schools point out that
these guidelines are inadequate and impractical (the diagrams for classroom layout alone are hilariously bad) you look to argue with them.

I'm seriously disappointed with these guidelines precisely BECAUSE I want to get back in the classroom full-time. When I point out the flaws it is BECAUSE I want schools to reopen and STAY open. I hated, hated, hated wfh. Zoom classes are just not the same thing and it took a lot more preparation to modify classes to be effective online and even then it was difficult to engage every student in a way that is very hard to address when not in person.

The issue is that I don't believe following the guidelines, as laid out, will actually allow us to open and stay that way. That is based on my experience working in a large post primary school. That is my problem and I believe most teachers have the same issue. However, anytime we point out the issues, it is painted as 'lazy teachers' who want to 'keep schools closed'. No matter what, we can't seem to win.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

ASTI are not insisting that everyone wears masks, that's not true.

Current guidance omits the entire primary schoolgoing population and some first years too from any mandatory face coverings.

But your argument was that u13 don't have to.....

The ASTI are rightly pointing out how it says one thing but something else states differently. You couldn't make the stuff up really. Only in Ireland would the govt be talking through their ar€es.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's for practical reasons, changing masks at least once during the day, taking it off for breaks and lunch, wearing it properly.

It's easier to put one on for 5 mins going to a shop (or a short trip on school bus) than it is to wear one all day every day.

It has been approached in a risk v benefit manner and hence quite rightly the advice that they aren't mandatory in school.

That's all lovely. Fair play to you

But none of those are medical reasons.

And that's why the ASTI are seeking clarity based on science and policy why Health Protection measures apply in one scenario but another, with specific reference to the once in generation global pandemic.

I'd struggle to find anyone valid reason why it is not perfectly acceptable for any representatives of an organisation to seek that information.

I imagine you agree?

Will Yam wrote: »

The poster said s/he wanted his/her kids to be in a safe environment.

If you want safety, take no risks, stay at home as I said.

This concept of absolute safety is utter nonsense. It doesn’t exist.

That poster is me.

Can you show where I said I wanted absolute safety for them? I’ll even settle for any reference I made to ‘complete’, ‘total’ or anything similar.

I’ll wait.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's for practical reasons, changing masks at least once during the day, taking it off for breaks and lunch, wearing it properly.

It's easier to put one on for 5 mins going to a shop (or a short trip on school bus) than it is to wear one all day every day.

It has been approached in a risk v benefit manner and hence quite rightly the advice that they aren't mandatory in school.

Masks will be mandatory if the school cannot implement the 1m SD.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's for practical reasons, changing masks at least once during the day, taking it off for breaks and lunch, wearing it properly.

It's easier to put one on for 5 mins going to a shop (or a short trip on school bus) than it is to wear one all day every day.

It has been approached in a risk v benefit manner and hence quite rightly the advice that they aren't mandatory in school.

"Students, faculty and other employees should wear masks properly at all times. Face shields, while not as good as masks — droplets can enter or exit from the bottom or sides — are better than nothing and an option for those who for medical reasons are unable to wear a mask. Everyone should wash hands or sanitize them every hour or so. Adequate ventilation and rigorous nightly cleaning of facilities with disinfectants will also need to be aspects of these return-to-school strategies.

Schools need to reduce class size to allow students to be 6 feet apart. Recommendations from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine and data from other countries suggest some 10 to 15 students in a regular classroom is about right. Students should also be assigned to “pods” or “cohorts” — small groups to limit the number of people they interact with throughout the day. Students should not change classrooms — teachers should — and student arrivals and departures should be staggered."

This is the advice from the NASEM. We probably have two scientist in the whole country that could maybe hope to ever work for this organisation given the type of credentials required. I believe their advice in actually valid. I don't for a second believe any scientist/researcher (and I know a fair few and was one before I became a teacher) would stand over these guidelines. The ASTI are absolutely right to query them

caveat emptor wrote: »

What does the new information mean in context of pandemic. We can control risk but assuming only droplet transmission is now 100% wrong. The measures taken in most parts of society haven’t addressed this yet. Will take time to mitigate but common sense regard windows and airflow should be applied.

Don’t take my word for it. Here’s a different random guy on Internet who has a credential or two and is willing to share them with you.

https://twitter.com/alinouriphd/status/1288838288065933313?s=21

There is a great study done early on in China in a restaurant on spread, completely dependent on where the person was in relation to the person shedding viral particles and the air conditioning unit!! The kids will all be in hoodies and coats!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html

Can anybody point me in the right direction for home tutors at primary level? Had our 10 year old assessed having noticed she was struggling with maths over the lockdown- turns out she has dyscalculia. I don’t believe supports will be available/possible in schools with staff shortages when they reopen as support teachers will need to cover for any teachers missing with symptoms etc.
In fact I think there’s a fair chance it could all go tits up again looking at what is happening around the rest of the world coupled with the reviews of the roadmap by teachers here!

sideswipe wrote: »

Can anybody point me in the right direction for home tutors at primary level? Had our 10 year old assessed having noticed she was struggling with maths over the lockdown- turns out she has dyscalculia. I don’t believe supports will be available/possible in schools with staff shortages when they reopen as support teachers will need to cover for any teachers missing with symptoms etc.
In fact I think there’s a fair chance it could all go tits up again looking at what is happening around the rest of the world coupled with the reviews of the roadmap by teachers here!

Home tutors in the traditional sense is the term applied to those who do home tuition. Home tuition is gov sanctioned and funded. It has a set criteria which tends to be quite strict. In your situation if you don’t wish to send your child back to school you would be looking at home schooling. Home schooling is normally undertaken by parents. If you google home schooling Ireland you will find links to resources etc. I’m not sure you will be in a position to source a teacher to work full time with your child. If that’s what you are looking for. I’m not 100% certain from your post. You will find it easier to source some one to give your child grinds in maths. This is often via noticeboards in local supermarket etc. You could post on Educationposts website . There is a section there that might be a place to start.