How will schools be able to go back in September?

downthemiddle

Blondini wrote: »

Only 85 new cases today, open 'em up!

There was a queue out the gate in Beaumont yesterday for testing. I know of someone whose daughter has tested positive from one of four close contacts. Hopefully this is a blip and with more responsible behaviour we will still be in a position to open schools in September.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

ASTI are not insisting that everyone wears masks, that's not true.

Current guidance omits the entire primary schoolgoing population and some first years too from any mandatory face coverings.

Fringey we missed your contribution yesterday when you were lying low for most of the day. However it did provide an opportunity for others to display their ignorance of the topic instead.
If your child was the only 12 year old in first year would you send them in without a mask just to make a poi...... oh wait.

grind gremlin

All of our clusters involve people working / living in close quarters..... similar to schools except that secondary schools will move around every hour or so meaning more contacts.....

Gael23

The system in secondary schools might need to change to the teacher moving. Would reduce crowds in school corridors too

combat14

85 new cases .. 66% under 45 years of age.. wow that is some jump... be lucky to get pubs back open at this rate let alone the schools ..

Spanish Eyes

Gael23 wrote: »

The system in secondary schools might need to change to the teacher moving. Would reduce crowds in school corridors too

I asked that question a month or so ago. Why should the students move around and not the teachers. Was explained that students are streamed or something and they need to go to other classrooms for their preferred subject, so no chance of them all being able to stay in the one room. Sorry if I got that wrong.

Oranage2

Seems like the government is hell bound on opening the schools, I honestly think it's a mistake, high numbers today shows schools are exactly the type of places the virus spreads rapidly in. I predict the schools opening in September then closing in October till after Christmas, instead they should wait till November and be able to have the schools opened for the rest of the term and with a proper plan not one that was rushed.

Thierry12

Oranage2 wrote: »

Seems like the government is hell bound on opening the schools, I honestly think it's a mistake, high numbers today shows schools are exactly the type of places the virus spreads rapidly in. I predict the schools opening in September then closing in October till after Christmas, instead they should wait till November and be able to have the schools opened for the rest of the term and with a proper plan not one that was rushed.

1 death today

6 in hospital country wide

4 in the ICU

We need to relax, every day as it comes, enough about Christmas ffs :pac:

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Oranage2 wrote: »

Seems like the government is hell bound on opening the schools, I honestly think it's a mistake, high numbers today shows schools are exactly the type of places the virus spreads rapidly in. I predict the schools opening in September then closing in October till after Christmas, instead they should wait till November and be able to have the schools opened for the rest of the term and with a proper plan not one that was rushed.

Sure we'll wait until 2021 and then what?? This is it, this is here to stay for now so we either try to have some semblance of a normal education (as much as possible).

Or we shut schools for the foreseeable and lay off all teachers and staff and provide support financially for parents to stay at home and educate.

But that won't work either. We have to at least try and learn to live with the virus present.

Grandeeod

Gael23 wrote: »

The system in secondary schools might need to change to the teacher moving. Would reduce crowds in school corridors too

The system in Secondary schools needs to change to alternate weeks with strict SD and hygiene. Todays numbers may be a blip, but regardless, they confirm how quickly numbers can jump.

Grandeeod

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Sure we'll wait until 2021 and then what?? This is it, this is here to stay for now so we either try to have some semblance of a normal education (as much as possible).

Or we shut schools for the foreseeable and lay off all teachers and staff and provide support financially for parents to stay at home and educate.

But that won't work either. We have to at least try and learn to live with the virus present.

We can live with the virus if we accept that things can't be the way they used to be. We adapt. Keep the country moving at a slightly slower pace. We can still educate kids without hiding under our beds, but not by lashing them all back into schools on top of each other. Take a look at our current Dail sitting in a massive convention centre at a cost of 25k per day. Loads of SD for them and some wear masks too. These are the guys who want all kids back in school at the same time and expect schools to fit them in and keep them safe.

ChelseaRentBoy

Oranage2 wrote: »

Seems like the government is hell bound on opening the schools, I honestly think it's a mistake, high numbers today shows schools are exactly the type of places the virus spreads rapidly in. I predict the schools opening in September then closing in October till after Christmas, instead they should wait till November and be able to have the schools opened for the rest of the term and with a proper plan not one that was rushed.

Schools have no chance of operating fully in a few weeks. People need to get real and make plans now.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Oranage2 wrote: »

high numbers today shows schools are exactly the type of places the virus spreads rapidly.

It's a meat factory cluster that's responsible for most of today's high case numbers.

Are schools very similar to meat factories?

vid36

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's a meat factory cluster that's responsible for most of today's high case numbers.

Are schools very similar to meat factories?

There have been school clusters in many places from Israel to Melbourne and it is inevitable that there will be lots of them here next month too.

Ectoplasm

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's a meat factory cluster that's responsible for most of today's high case numbers.

Are schools very similar to meat factories?

18 is not most of 85.

Rimmy

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's a meat factory cluster that's responsible for most of today's high case numbers.

Are schools very similar to meat factories?

I doubt they have 30+ people packed into a small room. If one person sneezes at the back of a room could infect the whole room.

Grandeeod

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's a meat factory cluster that's responsible for most of today's high case numbers.

Are schools very similar to meat factories?

26 cases in Kildare and associated with a meat factory in Naas.

Meat factories obviously have a problem as this is not the first time they have made the news. The employees aren't catching it from the meat. But meat factory employees are parents too. Their kids go to school, a school that will struggle to accomodate SD. Once again read what the Acting CMO is saying and this is from this evening,

[“Now is not the time for a knee-jerk reaction,” he said. But he warned that “people have forgotten the basic advice about physical distancing”. /QUOTE]

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Ectoplasm wrote: »

18 is not most of 85.

18 new cases were in Dublin, the factory is not in Dublin.

"A significant number of cases are associated with a meat factory in Naas, Kildare".

So that's probably quite a few employees and close contacts. The factory has been closed down.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Rimmy wrote: »

I doubt they have 30+ people packed into a small room. If one person sneezes at the back of a room could infect the whole room.

Lots of factors as to why the factories are hot spots, good explainer here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/why-are-there-so-many-coronavirus-infections-at-meat-plants-1.4258593?mode=amp

Not much in common with schools.

bettyoleary

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Sure we'll wait until 2021 and then what?? This is it, this is here to stay for now so we either try to have some semblance of a normal education (as much as possible).

Or we shut schools for the foreseeable and lay off all teachers and staff and provide support financially for parents to stay at home and educate. ????

bettyoleary

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

18 new cases were in Dublin, the factory is not in Dublin.

"A significant number of cases are associated with a meat factory in Naas, Kildare".

So that's probably quite a few employees and close contacts. The factory has been closed down.

But its a small poorly ventilated space. Same as schools

caveat emptor

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Sorry but we're we not all under the impression it is transmitted through the air? Isn't that why we are all wearing masks?? I don't get how this is new information. Although I would like to be enlightened.

A lot of confusion about masks, respirators and face shields.

So to date (as in yesterday) there was only circumstantial evidence that the virus is transmissible via aerosol droplets (small)
It’s now 100% proven to be aerosols and can infect.

Before then people wanted to think that it was only transmissible via ‘droplets’ big.

Because droplets are big the fall to ground due to gravity and don’t hang around.
Aerosols are generated when we talk, laugh shout etc. Best way of describing it is if someone is hung over in a room and you can tell they’ll been drinking and there’s no windows open. That’s aerosol (their breath) containing ethanol that you are smelling.

Anyway surgical masks block your droplets and reduce your aerosol. They don’t really offer any protection to the wearer if in presence of infected person ( although reduce a bit )

Fp3 , fp2 and fp1 respirators are used to HCW to block inhalation of particles of various sizes. Fp2 and fp3 only really good enough to block the tiny droplets which hang in the air for hours ( like a hangover in a room) Note they only work when there is a good deal with face (no air can enter around the mask).
Still presents a risk around the eyes. That’s why full face respirators exist. The seal around full face not just nose and mouth. Clean shaven important.

Face shields while effective at blocking droplets do not block aerosols at all. So I wouldn’t recommend them to anybody. I know that’s a controversial here but it’s the truth.

Think of bio aerosols like property.

Ventilation, ventilation , ventilation.

It’s a numbers game too. 5 mins in presence of infected person won’t present a massive risk.

Being in a dingey room with little no airflow with 30 other people All day. Presenta a serious risk.

Outside best followed by open window door.

Hope it helps

bettyoleary

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

18 new cases were in Dublin, the factory is not in Dublin.

"A significant number of cases are associated with a meat factory in Naas, Kildare".

So that's probably quite a few employees and close contacts. The factory has been closed down.

Im afraid the numbers are going up because people are mixing in small spaces. They are travelling to countries who are mixing in small spaces. Meat factories, schools whatever you want to call them. The virus spreads very quickly. Old people die. Its very poor outcomes for middle age people in alot of cases and young people are mostly ok but spread it exactly the same. A small number of kids get very ill and die. I dont see what you cant understand about this.

deiseindublin

30-40 quoted in the article I read, I would't consider that 'most' of 85 .

r93kaey5p2izun

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

18 new cases were in Dublin, the factory is not in Dublin.

"A significant number of cases are associated with a meat factory in Naas, Kildare".

So that's probably quite a few employees and close contacts. The factory has been closed down.

RTE report says 18 from the factory in Kildare.

"Acting Chief Medical Officer Dr Ronan Glynn said that at least 18 of the cases reported today are associated with a cluster at a factory in Co Kildare. The factory is closed and outbreak control teams are in place."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0730/1156430-coronavirus-ireland/

bettyoleary

deiseindublin wrote: »

30-40 quoted in the article I read, I would't consider that 'most' of 85 .

There is absolutely no way we wont follow Spain, Germany, France. We arnt prepared to deal with this virus the same as for example Hanoi who when had one case , closed down the whole city. We are a greedy, selfish country and we wont learn from mistakes. Look at scrooge M. Oleary , he is responsible for this second wave, flying people from country to country. He is sitting at home counting his money like scrooge now. He should be on trial for war crimes really. It is a Pandemic. You have to forgo money and take care of people. Ive read the school thread throughout and people are prepared to push their children into schools when they have no knowledge of how the virus will effect them or teachers. Just pure selfish. Good luck everyone and hope its just a blimp

the corpo

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's a meat factory cluster that's responsible for most of today's high case numbers.

Are schools very similar to meat factories?

Cramped rooms, full of people at close quarters. Meets the conditions that merit caution.

Boggles

Glynn confirmed it again this evening, basically waiting on the report on school reopening from the ECDC.

They are a pretty "conservative" organisation, so the plans may change based on the science and evidence they announce.

Alrigghtythen

bettyoleary wrote: »

There is absolutely no way we wont follow Spain, Germany, France. We arnt prepared to deal with this virus the same as for example Hanoi who when had one case , closed down the whole city. We are a greedy, selfish country and we wont learn from mistakes. Look at scrooge M. Oleary , he is responsible for this second wave, flying people from country to country. He is sitting at home counting his money like scrooge now. He should be on trial for war crimes really. It is a Pandemic. You have to forgo money and take care of people. Ive read the school thread throughout and people are prepared to push their children into schools when they have no knowledge of how the virus will effect them or teachers. Just pure selfish. Good luck everyone and hope its just a blimp

Lay the teachers off till Jan 2021. Put them on the covid payment.

caveat emptor

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Lay the teachers off till Jan 2021. Put them on the covid payment.

Cool so you aren't so concerned about the education part of the schools?

It was just the free child care.

Got you.