Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

MickeyLeari · 28-07-2020 09:04AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Vaccines will chip away at the virus, as will treatments, but it won’t be a panacea. We still have measles outbreaks and no COVID vaccine is expected to be anywhere near as effective as the measles vaccine. There are still questions around whether those vaccinated can still spread the virus and how long it will be effective for. There is hope that it, along with treatments, will improve the situation, but we aren’t getting back to normal any time soon. We will all be wearing masks for years (forever, perhaps) and what it means for our personal interaction, even with a vaccine, is still completely unknown.

This is worth a listen this morning. A balanced review of where we are with the vaccines

https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2020/jul/28/will-we-ever-achieve-immunity-from-covid-19-podcast?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There has been a disproportionate discourse in respect to the treatments which seem to be working a lot more effectively now. Interestingly, the following from the IT yesterday caught my eye -

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/we-sent-two-journalists-for-antibody-tests-one-with-a-covid-19-diagnosis-one-without-1.4313111%3fmode=amp

While my experience of the virus was very difficult, I never felt my life was in danger – unlike my mam, Jackie. She was hospitalised for five days after most likely contracting it from me the same weekend I started to show symptoms. She developed pneumonia in both lungs but her condition began to quickly improve when she was put on the malaria medication Hydroxychloroquine.

28-07-2020 12:28PM

I find it funny when people suggest that things will never go back to normal again. Covid 19 is a mild disease. All of the stats back that up. If we really had to, we could let this rip right through the entire world and only a few million would die.

Obviously, it is preferable to avoid that if possible. But it's a price we might have to pay eventually.

We don't have unlimited resources to carry on like this. How many people have received the Covid payment over the last few months? Still 350000 receiving it. How many people are not paying their mortgage? How many businesses are receiving government support? How many on Social Welfare? Now we are going to be spending big money on PPE. Millions going to the schools to hire more teachers and build.

How sustainable do you think this is? This whole thing is only a matter of months away from collapsing.
How will a country like Spain stay afloat with no tourism?

At the moment, we have our fingers crossed that the vaccines in phase 3 will work and can start getting rolled out early next year.
If all of those vaccines fail, plan B will be back to normality with advise for elders to cocoon.

Probably goes without saying... But would anyone even care to be alive if life carried on as it is in 2020?

TaurenDruid · 28-07-2020 12:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably goes without saying... But would anyone even care to be alive if life carried on as it is in 2020?

:eek: I think we've reached peak hyperbole...

28-07-2020 12:34PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

:eek: I think we've reached peak hyperbole...

Would you be happy to live like this for the rest of your days?

I know it won't/can't happen. But its a point that people keep raising.

TaurenDruid · 28-07-2020 12:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you be happy to live like this for the rest of your days?

I know it won't/can't happen. But its a point that people keep raising.

Be happy to? Absolutely not. Of course not. That goes without saying.

It'd be preferable to the alternative you appear to be proposing, though.

hatrickpatrick · 28-07-2020 01:25PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

:eek: I think we've reached peak hyperbole...

We absolutely have not. Social isolation is soul destroying. Having to keep two metres away from everyone who doesn't live in your household is soul destroying. Not being able to socialise in a crowd is soul destroying. It fundamentally flies in the face of human nature and it is not remotely hyperbolic to suggest that many peoples' mental health could be affected in a fatal way if this is it for the rest of our lives.

MickeyLeari · 28-07-2020 01:34PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would you be happy to live like this for the rest of your days?

I know it won't/can't happen. But its a point that people keep raising.

There is life and there is living.

Penfailed · 28-07-2020 02:05PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably goes without saying... But would anyone even care to be alive if life carried on as it is in 2020?

It doesn't go without saying...what ARE you saying?!

bb1234567 · 28-07-2020 02:29PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We absolutely have not. Social isolation is soul destroying. Having to keep two metres away from everyone who doesn't live in your household is soul destroying. Not being able to socialise in a crowd is soul destroying. It fundamentally flies in the face of human nature and it is not remotely hyperbolic to suggest that many peoples' mental health could be affected in a fatal way if this is it for the rest of our lives.

And it won't be for the rest of our lives not even a fraction of our lives so it won't be 'fatal'. We shouldn't have had a lockdown but to say it's killing people because of mental illness is indeed hyperbolic in the most extreme I've witnessed throughout this entire series of threads

You'd wonder how people in rural villages aren't dropping like flies from suicide because they don't go to Dublin to mix in crowds in packed clubs and concerts every weekend. I miss crowds but it's not destroying my soul not being in one, so either speak for yourself or cite a paper , but don't speak with authority for everyone just because it is affecting you so personally to not be in a crowd.

ixoy · 28-07-2020 02:36PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

You'd wonder how people in rural societies aren't dropping like flies from suicide because they don't go to Dublin to mix in crowds every weekend

To be fair, that's not the same - social distancing says you don't mix with anybody unless they're 2m away whether you're in a rural village or a high density city. That's the isolation that can cause problems - just today, for example, I saw a Tweet from a series creator about how being stuck in his apartment for five months is having a serious affect on his mental health.

How bad these mental health issues will be will be difficult to quantify and probably impossible for the other more subtle changes. It'll all depend on how long it goes on for.

bb1234567 · 28-07-2020 02:37PM

ixoy wrote: »

To be fair, that's not the same - social distancing says you don't mix with anybody unless they're 2m away whether you're in a rural village or a high density city. That's the isolation that can cause problems - just today, for example, I saw a Tweet from a series creator about how being stuck in his apartment for five months is having a serious affect on his mental health.

How bad these mental health issues will be will be difficult to quantify and probably impossible for the other more subtle changes. It'll all depend on how long it goes on for.

Yes I realise and it's why I addressed the posters point which specifically referenced 'crowds' and their essential presence for good mental health. Intimate human connection is essential to good health but crowds are not, can't wait until we can join in crowds again but to say that a person can't be mentally content without them is highest bull

s1ippy · 28-07-2020 02:40PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably goes without saying... But would anyone even care to be alive if life carried on as it is in 2020?

Sadly a lot of people already opting out.

All work and no play makes jac a dull boy.

hatrickpatrick · 28-07-2020 03:06PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

And it won't be for the rest of our lives not even a fraction of our lives so it won't be 'fatal'. We shouldn't have had a lockdown but to say it's killing people because of mental illness is indeed hyperbolic in the most extreme I've witnessed throughout this entire series of threads

You'd wonder how people in rural villages aren't dropping like flies from suicide because they don't go to Dublin to mix in crowds in packed clubs and concerts every weekend. I miss crowds but it's not destroying my soul not being in one, so either speak for yourself or cite a paper , but don't speak with authority for everyone just because it is affecting you so personally to not be in a crowd.

I said if this goes on forever. Which at the moment seems to be the unspoken reality since there's no end game after Phase Four, which still requires social distancing. You're intentionally painting a strawman here. If this is temporary, it's bearable. If there's no light at the end of the tunnel, then for many people it becomes considerably less so. And right now, with all this talk of "the new normal" and other related bollocks, there is no such light at the end of the tunnel. The implication throughout the media is that social distancing is at least "quasi permanent". What has living in a rural village vs a big town got to do with anything? Those living in rural villages can still entertain guests and meet other people in their local village without being unable to hug or shake hands with them, and having to sit 2m apart when having a drink or a meal. That is unnatural, and many, many people simply can't hack it long term.

fr336 · 28-07-2020 03:11PM

It's been 4 months.

fr336 · 28-07-2020 03:13PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

'New Normal' quite possibly one of the most annoying phrases to come out of this given there's nothing normal about it

Lots of things we do normally aren't really normal. For instance, commuters packed in like sardines on trains and buses.

fr336 · 28-07-2020 03:17PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We absolutely have not. Social isolation is soul destroying. Having to keep two metres away from everyone who doesn't live in your household is soul destroying. Not being able to socialise in a crowd is soul destroying. It fundamentally flies in the face of human nature and it is not remotely hyperbolic to suggest that many peoples' mental health could be affected in a fatal way if this is it for the rest of our lives.

Going to a restaurant and having people on their phones half the time when they have a living breathing person in front of them is soul destroying. Oh yeah this is what "normal" was like just a few months ago. I think people are already romantising how amazing this normal thing was. Maybe people will change when things are "normal" again, but I doubt it.

28-07-2020 03:22PM

fr336 wrote: »

Going to a restaurant and having people on their phones half the time when they have a living breathing person in front of them is soul destroying. Oh yeah this is what "normal" was like just a few months ago. I think people are already romantising how amazing this normal thing was. Maybe people will change when things are "normal" again, but I doubt it.

This has utterly no relation to the argument he's making.

fr336 · 28-07-2020 03:25PM

AdamD wrote: »

This has utterly no relation to the argument he's making.

Yes it does. People were isolating themselves before all this. Working all the hours god sent, glued to their phones...now the government are the ones isolating them, it's an issue. I'm exaggerating a little, but not much. As a social animal we have regressed in the past decade.

average_runner · 28-07-2020 03:27PM

fr336 wrote: »

Yes it does. People were isolating themselves before all this. Working all the hours god sent, glued to their phones...now the government are the ones isolating them, it's an issue. I'm exaggerating a little, but not much. As a social animal we have regressed in the past decade.

We are still working all hours and still glued to our phones.

Big benefit of lockdown since it opened, local restaurants are packed, instead of going to the city, we stay out here, better value and great food

Penfailed · 28-07-2020 03:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I said if this goes on forever. Which at the moment seems to be the unspoken reality since there's no end game after Phase Four, which still requires social distancing. You're intentionally painting a strawman here. If this is temporary, it's bearable. If there's no light at the end of the tunnel, then for many people it becomes considerably less so. And right now, with all this talk of "the new normal" and other related bollocks, there is no such light at the end of the tunnel. The implication throughout the media is that social distancing is at least "quasi permanent". What has living in a rural village vs a big town got to do with anything? Those living in rural villages can still entertain guests and meet other people in their local village without being unable to hug or shake hands with them, and having to sit 2m apart when having a drink or a meal. That is unnatural, and many, many people simply can't hack it long term.

If you book a table for six with three couples, they are all sitting at one table a lot closer than 2m apart. You can currently have 10 people in your home from 4 different households...

dalyboy · 28-07-2020 03:41PM

Even a prison sentence comes with a time frame. Not the “new normal” though. It’s like a life sentence.

28-07-2020 03:44PM

fr336 wrote: »

Yes it does. People were isolating themselves before all this. Working all the hours god sent, glued to their phones...now the government are the ones isolating them, it's an issue. I'm exaggerating a little, but not much. As a social animal we have regressed in the past decade.

There's a vast difference between people isolating themselves by choice and being forced to.You're exaggerating massively if you think somebody on their phone in a restaurant is even remotely comparable to enforced social distancing.

lukas8888 · 28-07-2020 03:50PM

fr336 wrote: »

Going to a restaurant and having people on their phones half the time when they have a living breathing person in front of them is soul destroying. Oh yeah this is what "normal" was like just a few months ago. I think people are already romantising how amazing this normal thing was. Maybe people will change when things are "normal" again, but I doubt it.

Could it have anything to do with the person opposite you not finding you remotely interesting.

fr336 · 28-07-2020 03:52PM

lukas8888 wrote: »

Could it have anything to do with the person opposite you not finding you remotely interesting.

Ooh well done! Such a nice person. I've seen families sat together and all on their phones. How very social and normal.

Reported btw. i) Off topic ii) Attacking poster and not post

28-07-2020 03:55PM

I think people have completely missed the point here. Some posters have stated or hinted that the restrictions could last forever.

That would mean:

No travel - (Or at the very least frowned upon travel)
No Clubs
No Pubs
No entertainment industry - Comedy, Concerts etc
No Sports such as GAA
No sex - social distancing
Wearing masks every time we enter a shop

Of course, it is not even feasible as the economy would just completely collapse.

But just to entertain the thought, life would not be worth living if we kept these restrictions in place permanently.

If we can tolerate hunger killing a couple of million a year, we can tolerate people dying of or more likely with Covid.

lukas8888 · 28-07-2020 03:55PM

fr336 wrote: »

Ooh well done! Such a nice person. I've seen families sat together and all on their phones. How very social and normal.

Reported btw.

Oh my ,wonder how you would react when you have something serious to report.

fr336 · 28-07-2020 03:59PM

lukas8888 wrote: »

Oh my ,wonder how you would react when you have something serious to report.

More off topic so I'll be ignoring from now on. I'm pretty sure many fragile posters used to report me for bursting their egos so I will report the smallest thing just like they did, the rules are there for everyone's benefit

fr336 · 28-07-2020 04:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think people have completely missed the point here. Some posters have stated or hinted that the restrictions could last forever.

Only people I've ever seen remotely entertaining this insane idea is the anti restrictions crowd. I'm very pro restriction to control the virus and reduce economic impact but I'll be right there with you if things are still this severe after Christmas, I have no time for a new normal and will not be happy if we are even still wearing masks in 2021. The problem is there needs to be creative solutions not just hope for the best and let people young and old die or go through hell in a hospital for months.

bb1234567 · 28-07-2020 04:08PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people have completely missed the point here. Some posters have stated or hinted that the restrictions could last forever.

That would mean:

No travel - (Or at the very least frowned upon travel)
No Clubs
No Pubs
No entertainment industry - Comedy, Concerts etc
No Sports such as GAA
No sex - social distancing
Wearing masks every time we enter a shop

Of course, it is not even feasible as the economy would just completely collapse.

But just to entertain the thought, life would not be worth living if we kept these restrictions in place permanently.

If we can tolerate hunger killing a couple of million a year, we can tolerate people dying of or more likely with Covid.

youd seriously be offing yourself if this was forever? Jaysus hope for your sake this is being said for dramatic effect, could safely say you're in the minority with that opinion but maybe the majority on this thread although I'll give you that

Herb Powell · 28-07-2020 04:08PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Yes I realise and it's why I addressed the posters point which specifically referenced 'crowds' and their essential presence for good mental health. Intimate human connection is essential to good health but crowds are not, can't wait until we can join in crowds again but to say that a person can't be mentally content without them is highest bull

It's not bull. There's a reason those things exist and a reason so many people dedicate their lives and careers to them. This is gone for the foreseeable future. It may not be the case for most people, but there's a sizeable number for whom this is really really difficult.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings