Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

No, I wouldn't.

I haven't opposed any of the phases of opening up and the speed at which they happened.

Your mind reading skills need some work.

So much bloody rubbish, unsurprisingly. You've posted over 8 weeks ago that the only scenario where you'd be happy with accelerated lifting of restrictions is, and I quote, "when new cases and deaths are in single digits"

When they've brought forward most of the stuff to 29 June, we were not in single digits in new cases now were we?

Based on this, I'd say you were not happy with so much stuff being brought forward to 29th of June. Arghus, back to euromomo website you go. Link us that upward curve of excess deaths to scaremonger :rolleyes:

John O.Groats

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You dont understand, 1cm is the variance both ways. 2 metres 1 cm apart - u ll be told to "move in a bit closer". Speechless really. But, does perhaps explain why so few shoppers are out there nowadays.

I have a feeling you may just enjoy that job, I dont know why :rolleyes:

For someome who claims to be "speechless" you seem to have plenty to say on here. Not much of it makes any sense though IMO.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You dont understand, 1cm is the variance both ways. 2 metres 1 cm apart - u ll be told to "move in a bit closer". Speechless really. But, does perhaps explain why so few shoppers are out there nowadays.

You said someone was there to enforce it. That's keeping someone in employment. I thought you were all for that.

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

You said someone was there to enforce it. That's keeping someone in employment. I thought you were all for that.

Your idea of keeping someone in employment is telling retail staff to go outside of the shop to direct a queue? So if there is no queue then that retail assistant loses his/her job according to your logic?

Penfailed you are really scraping the barrel here.

Any comment on 10 shops out of 25/30 in total on the first floor of St Green shopping center going out of business?

John O.Groats

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Your idea of keeping someone in employment is telling retail staff to go outside of the shop to direct a queue? So if there is no queue then that retail assistant loses his/her job according to your logic?

Penfailed you are really scraping the barrel here.

Any comment on 10 shops out of 25/30 in total on the first floor of St Green shopping center going out of business?

By the way were you wearing a mask when you were on your travels? Seeing as you were complaining about wearing them not long ago.

Ginger n Lemon

Dublin city centre is ‘dead, completely dead’ for restaurants

‘There are no tourists, no corporate business . . . It’s a serious situation’

“Dublin city centre is an absolute disaster. It’s a tumbleweed situation, especially after 6pm when businesses close. Last night we did 16 people, and the restaurant can hold 110. Tonight we’ve got 10 booked. It’s really scary.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/dublin-city-centre-is-dead-completely-dead-for-restaurants-1.4311810

I confirm this, unfortunately. Had the pleasure of eating lunch in Bunsen today at 2 o clock, not a restaurant really but we were only ones in the place, then over the next 40 minutes 5 more people came in, they can easily accommodate 20+ with social distancing. Desperate.

I am sure Arghus or his fake account "John o Groats" will respond very soon with the "shure open up brigade, shure it will be grand" nonsense, the "slow and steady approach" rubbish. 100,000 + are out of work and grown men in Ireland are getting nervous about 6 new cases going to 20 in a country of 4,900,000 people. We are very much snookered if this continues (not to say that we arent already).

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Your idea of keeping someone in employment is telling retail staff to go outside of the shop to direct a queue? So if there is no queue then that retail assistant loses his/her job according to your logic? No, that's your logic. I didn't suggest any such thing.

Penfailed you are really scraping the barrel here. I'm not...but I'm not surprised that you would think that.

Any comment on 10 shops out of 25/30 in total on the first floor of St Green shopping center going out of business? It's terrible

.

Ginger n Lemon

Well if you think that 1/3rd of outlets on 1st floor in St Green shopping center going out of business is terrible, below must be terrible x100

Aer Lingus could be ‘wound up’ without State support, union chief warns
Covid-19 committee told airline losing €1.5m a-day with overseas travel restrictions in place

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-could-be-wound-up-without-state-support-union-chief-warns-1.4312620

Lets face it, back few weeks some were casually complaining about tourists, others were nervous about NPHET and Tony H apprentice having a cause for concern, but now shi* is getting real. If things do not change - the only reason you ll be sending children to school in September is so that they get an education and go abroad, which is absolutely disgraceful.

Why isnt our govt doing the local business voucher idea that was introduced in Vienna god knows how long ago?

Why is our govt so happy to hand out 203/300/350 euro or whatever it may be to unemployed youth rather than paying their full 18k or 20k year 1 year 2 wages while they work for companies, contribute to them, create actual output and gain valuable experience like what they do in France?

Please do not respond with "yeah but they ll subsidize staycations!", that doesnt happen until Oct (when, if you think weather is shi*e now, weather gets truly even more horrendous) and given that recession is ongoing a lot of people won't be spending 150-250 euros per night in an Irish hotel that freely.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well if you think that 1/3rd of outlets on 1st floor in St Green shopping center going out of business is terrible, below must be terrible x100

Aer Lingus could be ‘wound up’ without State support, union chief warns
Covid-19 committee told airline losing €1.5m a-day with overseas travel restrictions in place

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-could-be-wound-up-without-state-support-union-chief-warns-1.4312620

Yes. That's terrible x 100.

Are you still planning on heading off to Spain?

John O.Groats

Penfailed wrote: »

Yes. That's terrible x 100.

Are you still planning on heading off to Spain?

I`d say he must be. After all the crocodile tears he shed about wanting businesses to reopen and then once they did he was complaining about the price of staying in Irish hotels and B & B`s. You couldn`t make it up.

Penfailed

John O.Groats wrote: »

I`d say he must be. After all the crocodile tears he shed about wanting businesses to reopen and then once they did he was complaining about the price of staying in Irish hotels and B & B`s. You couldn`t make it up.

...and then complained about wearing a mask in a barbers for about an hour yet will have to wear one on the plane and depending on whereabouts in Spain, will have to wear one in any public area. Due to an increase in cases, Spain has been removed from the 'green list' too.

thelad95

Penfailed wrote: »

...and then complained about wearing a mask in a barbers for about an hour yet will have to wear one on the plane and depending on whereabouts in Spain, will have to wear one in any public area. Due to an increase in cases, Spain has been removed from the 'green list' too.

Spain wasn't on the green list

Penfailed

thelad95 wrote: »

Spain wasn't on the green list

I beg your pardon. You're correct. It was on the UK version.

charlie14

Lundstram wrote: »

If the government hadn't bailed out the banks, three quarters of the country would have emigrated and caused a depression. Again basic economics.

"da gubberment bailed ou the bankerz hurr durr"

We as nation were no where near ever overwhelming the HSE. Fear mongering tabloid rubbish. They were the quietest they've ever been because the medical card holding hypochondriacs were afraid to sit in A&E for 7 hours with a sore thumb.

The very simple reason our health service was not overwhelmed was because of early lockdown.

If Covid-19 had been allowed run free what would that have done to your basic economics ?
Grave diggers would have done well, but I cannot think of many others.

MickeyLeari

is_that_so wrote: »

HIQA, HSE and care homes themselves, nobody else. NPHET just provide public health advice.

But where are the individuals working?

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

If Covid-19 had been allowed run free what would that have done to your basic economics ?
Grave diggers would have done well, but I cannot think of many others.

Very little would of happened.

Grave diggers, talk about hysterical nonsense

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am sure Arghus or his fake account "John o Groats" will respond very soon with the "shure open up brigade...

Seriously? Bizarre comment. Embarrassing to be honest.

Arghus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Very little would of happened.

Grave diggers, talk about hysterical nonsense

It's naive to think very little would have happened.

You were denying earlier that people ever made the argument of "open up, sure it'll be grand"

Now you say "very little would have happened..."

joseywhales

Penfailed wrote: »

Yes. That's terrible x 100.

Are you still planning on heading off to Spain?

Luckily they didn't stop all flights from the US, they can get some revenue from cargo and the handful of passengers. I had a look at the prices, $416 return if you book for departure in 3 weeks Boston-Dublin. That has got to be below cost. They must be hemorrhaging.

Arghus

Lundstram wrote: »

Mask wearing became compulsory in shops in England on Friday, most shops had security guards at the door enforcing this. Massive difference in footfall from Thursday compared to Friday. Went into a supermarket yesterday, it was almost empty, wearing a mask inside a stuffy shop for any period of time can be an uncomfortable experience for some. We are all different.

Massive sacrifice for little gain is what I took from the whole experience.

Do you really think wearing a facial covering while indoors in a shop is a massive sacrifice?

Where I work we've all had to wear facial coverings/masks since Monday. And people are just getting on with it. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's not that difficult either, even when you have to wear them for hours. And mask wearing seems to be pretty much at about 90% amongst the customers too - and no-one was making a big deal of it from what I could see. Footfall was exactly the same as recent weeks.

Lundstram

Arghus wrote: »

Do you really think wearing a facial covering while indoors in a shop is a massive sacrifice?

Where I work we've all had to wear facial coverings/masks since Monday. And people are just getting on with it. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's not that difficult either, even when you have to wear them for hours. And mask wearing seems to be pretty much at about 90% amongst the customers too - and no-one was making a big deal of it from what I could see. Footfall was exactly the same as recent weeks.

Like I said, for some it is. Just because it's fine for you doesn't mean it's fine for everyone else. Personally, I think they're a massive pain in the arse and ineffective.

Also, you're not allowed try on clothes before buying.

All these little things have massive implications for businesses.

Budget 2021 will be very interesting.

Assetbacked

On the Aer Lingus point, they should not get a cent from the Irish government as they are no longer an Irish owned company.

Airline bailouts in general are ludicrous as travel is done for this year, they will have to be stripped back. Those reliant on tourism for their income won't be going back to anything close to what they had last year even anytime soon. The Irish government giving money to foreign tourism reliant businesses and airlines just needs to not happen and they will have to go to the wall. It's delaying the inevitable otherwise and wasting money.

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So much bloody rubbish, unsurprisingly. You've posted over 8 weeks ago that the only scenario where you'd be happy with accelerated lifting of restrictions is, and I quote, "when new cases and deaths are in single digits"

I was against the accelerated opening of restrictions while we had pretty high case numbers, even in early May, but it wasn't just a simple case of I was against accelerated easing of restrictions full stop. Here is a direct quote from me on May 31st:

If case numbers continue to decline and are at a much lower daily rate then I wouldn't have a problem with them accelerating the process come June 29th.

I literally said I wouldn't have a problem with it. You are the one talking rubbish there mate.

When they've brought forward most of the stuff to 29 June, we were not in single digits in new cases now were we?

Wrong again. In fact we were. The seven day average for daily new cases in the week leading up to Jun 29th was in single figures. That's why I didn't have a problem with it.

Based on this, I'd say you were not happy with so much stuff being brought forward to 29th of June. Arghus, back to euromomo website you go. Link us that upward curve of excess deaths to scaremonger :rolleyes:

Based on nothing really. You don't have any facts to back up what you are saying - I'll refer you to my above quote - just assumptions and exaggeration. In fact you are completely and totally wrong.

irishproduce

CruelSummer wrote: »

The Government vilifying families for their own incompetence, and trying to get society to blame to arrogant folk who work hard and would like a holiday...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/families-risk-schools-not-opening-if-they-choose-to-go-abroad-39396094.html

I'm convinced that a lot of the conservative approach from our government and authorities is because our hospital and health system is simply not fit for purpose and cannot cope with the added pressure of moderate covid cases. I'm speaking about the other patient services like cancer and a&e not being sustainable alongside resources and space needed for moderate covid work. This is because the system is poorly setup and resourced.
Add to that, our classrooms are overcrowded, again what you might call not fit for purpose when confronted with a hurdle like covid.

Add these together and you have a big incentive for the state to throw other areas under the bus so as not to expose these (critical) seevices' problems.

I could be wrong but it's a hunch I have.

Charles Babbage

There are increases in 40 US states and in many countries throughout the world. One obvious thing is that nightclubs and party bars are not feasible in these conditions. You have to thread a fine line with this virus or you are undone.

hamburgham

irishproduce wrote: »

I'm convinced that a lot of the conservative approach from our government and authorities is because our hospital and health system is simply not fit for purpose and cannot cope with the added pressure of moderate covid cases. I'm speaking about the other patient services like cancer and a&e not being sustainable alongside resources and space needed for moderate covid work. This is because the system is poorly setup and resourced.
Add to that, our classrooms are overcrowded, again what you might call not fit for purpose when confronted with a hurdle like covid.

Add these together and you have a big incentive for the state to throw other areas under the bus so as not to expose these (critical) seevices' problems.

I could be wrong but it's a hunch I have.

Absolutely agree. The private sector is being thrown under the bus because of

1.Public sector incompetence
2.Resistance and obstruction from the ps unions

I posted a couple of days ago that even with regard to a simple job like doing the follow up calls on arrivals into the country, immigration control were refusing to do it because they had to focus on their “core duties” even though there are next to no arrivals. Impossible for the govt to open up air travel by rolling out more comprehensive arrival procedures to reassure people as the ps won’t cooperate.

And as for the way the Dept. of Education has been exposed, I'd say it's 40 years since they were woken out of their armchairs.

Blut2

Charles Babbage wrote: »

There are increases in 40 US states and in many countries throughout the world. One obvious thing is that nightclubs and party bars are not feasible in these conditions. You have to thread a fine line with this virus or you are undone.

When you close bars then people just have house parties instead. And house parties are far far more dangerous - instead of bathrooms getting regularly inspected, table service from bar staff wearing masks, some social distancing etc in a bar you have 50 people sharing one fridge, sharing one bathroom, and no social distancing in a house. Its why so many of the Irish cases in the last month have been from parties, and not from pubs.

Better to have bars open with controls in place than force people to have completely uncontrolled parties at home. Because either way people are going to go drinking and socializing, prohibition just isn't an option in the real world.

thelad95

I don't know how any country has seen it fit to open nightclubs, they are literally a breeding ground for the virus. People in a confined, poorly air conditioned space, shouting, singing, sweating, bodily fluids flying everywhere, lowered inhibitions.

The Czech Republic alone has traced nearly 100 cases to a nightclub in Prague. A controlled pub environment with bookings and table service is do-able but traditional nightclubs are going to be a long way away realistically.

ChelseaRentBoy

Charles Babbage wrote: »

There are increases in 40 US states and in many countries throughout the world. One obvious thing is that nightclubs and party bars are not feasible in these conditions. You have to thread a fine line with this virus or you are undone.

From some of the pictures and videos I've seen from the Costas and places like Portugal in the last few days social distancing is non existent in the nightclubs and pubs. We are going to have plane loads of these people arriving back here over the next few weeks and the resulting surge is going to put us back months.

Blanco100

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

From some of the pictures and videos I've seen from the Costas and places like Portugal in the last few days social distancing is non existent in the nightclubs and pubs. We are going to have plane loads of these people arriving back here over the next few weeks and the resulting surge is going to put us back months.

With that logic the death toll must be surging in Spain and Portugal so. Is it? Are the hospitals there stretched to breaking point?

Do we have any comprehensive info on what lasting damage this virus is doing to younger people?