Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

hmmm

Dickie10 wrote: »

remember the two mantras back in march, COCOONING and FLATTEN THE CURVE, why do we not hear these anymore?

We don't hear them anymore because the sacrifices that 90% of the population took reduced the total number of cases to very low figures, and continue to keep the figures suppressed.

Did you contribute to this? If you did, well done & keep it up, if not then you can't be part of claiming the success.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

Why do you think we have only 5 in ICU? What would be happening if many of the people in this thread had their way?

You're willing to risk another widespread outbreak, lockdowns, hundreds in ICU because you don't want to be asked to use hand sanitiser?

The numbers have dropped since the curve was flattened in early May.

No amount of lifting restrictions has changed things.

We need to open up to save jobs and business and start living with the virus. Not because of sanitizer.... bizarre you’d think that...

If we can’t live with the virus with 5 in ICU, god help us if the vaccines don’t work out.

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

We need to open up to save jobs and business and start living with the virus. Not because of sanitizer.... bizarre you’d think that...

"Living with the virus" does not mean letting it run free. How many businesses do you think will survive if people are terrified to leave their homes as case numbers begin to rise?

Just use the hand sanitiser. Stop being so precious.

gmisk

Dickie10 wrote: »

look we all know this thing is a deadly killer , BUT to those over 75 and thise with underlying conditions. to the rest the chances of death espically those under 45 and no health isssues are very very slim, no more chance than of hepititas c or HIV back in the day, much bigger chance unfortunatly of various forms of cancer. you see the death rate is very low but were getting into 40s and 50s /day cases. surely this is normal and to be expected? remember the two mantras back in march, COCOONING and FLATTEN THE CURVE, why do we not hear these anymore? its because the government and NYPHET have become addicted to the power and now are using it in a police state way for their own agendas. ICUs are not overran and wont be.

It's NPHET. Your comparison with HIV and Hep C makes very little sense, covid-19 is easily spread etc.
The government in Ireland have done imo a good job, the numbers bare that out. But we haven't hit flu season etc. The possibility of the numbers shooting up again is real it has happened in other countries. Look at what's happening in places like Texas....where they are literally having to ditch people from ICU beds.

The police state thing is a nonsense, bar possibly the thing at airports with PUP payments which seems like a misstep but they have been strongly called out on it by opposition so I would expect it to stop.

Dickie10

Dickie10 wrote: »

look we all know this thing is a deadly killer , BUT to those over 75 and thise with underlying conditions. to the rest the chances of death espically those under 45 and no health isssues are very very slim, no more chance than of hepititas c or HIV back in the day, much bigger chance unfortunatly of various forms of cancer. you see the death rate is very low but were getting into 40s and 50s /day cases. surely this is normal and to be expected? remember the two mantras back in march, COCOONING and FLATTEN THE CURVE, why do we not hear these anymore? its because the government and NYPHET have become addicted to the power and now are using it in a police state way for their own agendas. ICUs are not overran and wont be.

What is the agenda and why? Any reasoned thought or just more “police state “ “power hungry nphet” bollocks?

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

"Living with the virus" does not mean letting it run free. How many businesses do you think will survive if people are terrified to leave their homes as case numbers begin to rise?

Just use the hand sanitiser. Stop being so precious.

Living with the virus does mean at some point you have to accept that some people might get sick and hospitalised.

Especially when only 5 are in ICU.

Precious lol!!! From a person terrified to get back to normality because there is an illness out there.

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The numbers have dropped since the curve was flattened in early May.

No amount of lifting restrictions has changed things.

We need to open up to save jobs and business and start living with the virus. Not because of sanitizer.... bizarre you’d think that...

If we can’t live with the virus with 5 in ICU, god help us if the vaccines don’t work out.

What exactly do you want to open up that hasn't been already? Pubs? They will be soon enough.
What else?

Are you saying places that are open shouldn't have hand sanitizer, try to space people out?

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No need for even half of this nonsense.

Which half is nonsense and what are the parts you would keep?

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

What exactly do you want to open up that hasn't been already? Pubs? They will be soon enough.
What else?

Are you saying places that are open shouldn't have hand sanitizer, try to space people out?

Everything should be open by now bar big events like concerts, sports etc.

Social distancing reduced to 1M.

We are not making any effort to live with the virus. Just surviving and praying someone else will give us a vaccine and money.

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everything should be open by now bar big events like concerts, sports etc.

Social distancing reduced to 1M.

We are not making any effort to live with the virus. Just surviving and praying someone else will give us a vaccine and money.

What is shut that you think should be open at the minute (except bars)?
Simple enough question.
Cinemas, gyms, museums are allowed to open.
You do know a lot of places aren't spacing tables out by 2m on restaurants also e.g. sprezzatura (1m). Cinemas are the same they aren't putting 2m between seats.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Which half is nonsense and what are the parts you would keep?

I’d keep 1M social distancing and put proper controls in place at the airport such as banning US.

Everything else is nonsense. 9 euro of food doesn’t make one bar safe and another not safe.
Kids in third class are not magically different than 5th class.

Wearing a mask in a shop for 2 mins now makes no sense when it wasn’t needed at all in April during the peak. We flattened the curve without masks. And it’s remained that way without masks.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

What is shut that you think should be open at the minute (except bars)?
Simple enough question.
Cinemas, gyms, museums are allowed to open.
You do know a lot of places aren't spacing tables out by 2m on restaurants also e.g. sprezzatura (1m). Cinemas are the same they aren't putting 2m between seats.

I went the zoo the other day. Huge parts of it are closed off.

Can’t believe I paid full price.

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I went the zoo the other day. Huge parts of it are closed off.

Can’t believe I paid full price.

The zoo....ffs talk about first world problems.
Maybe you should have a look on their website before going all restrictions listed on it clearly

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

The zoo....ffs talk about first world problems.
Maybe you should have a look on their website before going all restrictions listed on it clearly

Also pubs, clubs and almost all of the entertainment industry. But you are aware of that.

thelad95

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wearing a mask in a shop for 2 mins now makes no sense when it wasn’t needed at all in April during the peak. We flattened the curve without masks. And it’s remained that way without masks.

Wearing a mask does make more sense now. People are back socialising, back in work, back with a wider group of close contacts.

In April, when we were queuing up for an hour to get into SuperValu, people weren't going anywhere and the only close contacts they had were those they lived with.

Masks are a pro-active long term measure to living alongside the virus. Even if there's only a 60% uptake (roughly what I see day to day), this could mean that 60% of asymptomatic cases wear masks and don't spread a virus they don't even have a clue that they have. This can only be a good thing.

What exactly is your issue with it? If you don't feel comfortable doing it for whatever reason, then don't, every shop seems to either not be bothered policing it or too scared of pissing off a customer, so it's unlikely you'll be called out on it. The rest of us who want to be responsible and protect others will get on with it while you fulfil your pointless anti-mask agenda.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’d keep 1M social distancing and put proper controls in place at the airport such as banning US.

Everything else is nonsense. 9 euro of food doesn’t make one bar safe and another not safe.
Kids in third class are not magically different than 5th class.

Wearing a mask in a shop for 2 mins now makes no sense when it wasn’t needed at all in April during the peak. We flattened the curve without masks. And it’s remained that way without masks.

One metre social distancing is not social distancing. You know this and by saying reduce social distancing to one metre, what you really mean is, do away with social distancing. Agree about the US.

The nine euro thing is only a distraction. There's a massive difference between a pub and a restaurant control wise. Schools haven't started back yet so I'm not sure what your point is there.

Regarding masks...if you ease one restriction, you have to tighten another. It's a fine balance.

dundalkfc10

Always knew there would be a benefit to living in the border. Popped 10 mins up the road with the auld fella for a few Pints, the simple things

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Also pubs, clubs and almost all of the entertainment industry. But you are aware of that.

As I said pubs will be open soon enough.
So now you think clubs should be open? Good luck with 1m in that environment

John O.Groats

gmisk wrote: »

As I said pubs will be open soon enough.
So now you think clubs should be open? Good luck with 1m in that environment

To suggest that the clubs should be open is complete and utter lunacy and anyone who is in favour of doing so should not be taken seriously.

PTH2009

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Always knew there would be a benefit to living in the border. Popped 10 mins up the road with the auld fella for a few Pints, the simple things

Did you bring your PPS Number :D

Idbatterim

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We absolutely have not. Social isolation is soul destroying. Having to keep two metres away from everyone who doesn't live in your household is soul destroying. Not being able to socialise in a crowd is soul destroying. It fundamentally flies in the face of human nature and it is not remotely hyperbolic to suggest that many peoples' mental health could be affected in a fatal way if this is it for the rest of our lives.

Nobody i know is living like this ... in relation to dating , online must be going through the roof, we are all comimg into contact with people relentlessly , regardless.

People need fo cop on and do what you think is reasonable, to hell with government...

Polar101

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Main point anyway that this stemmed from earlier is yes many social outlets aren't available and for some of us including myself that is proving difficult as being in my 20s the social circle personally is sporting events and concerts.

But sure someone will probably just say snowflake to all of that because it doesn't impact them at all.

You seem to be suggesting things are somehow tougher for people in their 20's. I don't think anyone is enjoying a pandemic, and I'd assume most people can't wait to see the end of it.

I'm not in my 20's, and this probably hasn't been the toughest period of my life, but I can't wait for things to go back to "normal". And I'm sure everyone is being affected somehow, be it socially, financially, mentally or whatever.

stephenjmcd

Polar101 wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting things are somehow tougher for people in their 20's. I don't think anyone is enjoying a pandemic, and I'd assume most people can't wait to see the end of it.

I'm not in my 20's, and this probably hasn't been the toughest period of my life, but I can't wait for things to go back to "normal". And I'm sure everyone is being affected somehow, be it socially, financially, mentally or whatever.

Nope not suggesting it, only using what I know from my own age bracket as an example when another user asked what social interaction is currently not available and gave the example of myself and my group of friends.

Its different as I've said for many other people. What impacts one person or group might have no impact on another person or group.

Some people might have their social outlets already back, coffee shops etc so they couldn't care less when sporting events etc return, others don't have social outlets back and may not for a long time to come.

Like I've said and you've mentioned it too, everyone is affected in different ways

pjohnson

Polar101 wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting things are somehow tougher for people in their 20's. I don't think anyone is enjoying a pandemic, and I'd assume most people can't wait to see the end of it.

I'm not in my 20's, and this probably hasn't been the toughest period of my life, but I can't wait for things to go back to "normal". And I'm sure everyone is being affected somehow, be it socially, financially, mentally or whatever.

Some of that age bracket only think of themselves. Hence the moronic house parties. When they grow up some get sense and responsibilities.

stephenjmcd

pjohnson wrote: »

Some of that age bracket only think of themselves. Hence the moronic house parties. When they grow up some get sense and responsibilities.

come on now, house parties haven't been confined to people in their 20s.

Plenty going on with alot of people much older than their 20s.

I've been asked to a fair few and not gone but its been a fairly broad age range at them all. The only ones that make the media are the ones with younger people but reality is its all age groups.

I know of a few 50th and 60th birthday parties being held in houses this coming bank holiday weekend for example with plenty invited. Where is their sense and responsibilities so ?

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

Wearing a mask does make more sense now. People are back socialising, back in work, back with a wider group of close contacts.

In April, when we were queuing up for an hour to get into SuperValu, people weren't going anywhere and the only close contacts they had were those they lived with.

Masks are a pro-active long term measure to living alongside the virus. Even if there's only a 60% uptake (roughly what I see day to day), this could mean that 60% of asymptomatic cases wear masks and don't spread a virus they don't even have a clue that they have. This can only be a good thing.

What exactly is your issue with it? If you don't feel comfortable doing it for whatever reason, then don't, every shop seems to either not be bothered policing it or too scared of pissing off a customer, so it's unlikely you'll be called out on it. The rest of us who want to be responsible and protect others will get on with it while you fulfil your pointless anti-mask agenda.

That is very contradictory. You can't say people were queuing for an hour and then say nobody was going anywhere. People were queuing for the only shops that were open.

Masks didn't help to flatten to curve (early May). They haven't helped to keep the numbers low ever since.

I wouldn't take anti biotics for an illness after I get better...

Captain_Crash

I have a few questions re: masks. I'm neither for nor against them and each to their own. Personally I've no issue wearing in places that ask as much. But I've not heard a convincing answer to the below, and I'm not trying to catch anyone out by the way, generally curious.

1) In the last four months, the places this virus impacted the worst was nursing homes and hospitals, places where masks have always been part of day to day life even before covid (more so in hospitals) and yet in supermarkets and shops, there wasn't a single cluster of cases despite no masks being required?

2) Many European countries mandated the wearing of masks in public early on yet looking at the "curves" there is no obvious difference between countries where masks were mandatory and countries where they were not. Basically, the speed in which cases rose then fell was pretty consistent across Europe. Ironically, Spain, where mask wearing is strictly enforced, some areas are now seeing increases in case numbers. If masks made any significant difference surely this wouldn't be the case?

To me, this says if masks were as effective as some believe, our hospitals and nursing homes would not have been hit as badly, and in theory you should be able to look at data from a mask wearing country vs a non mask country and see a clear difference in case numbers.

Many people (including in government and on this forum) have championed how good Ireland's response has been and how are numbers are excellent etc, yet it was all done without masks and during what looks to have been the height of the pandemic so far.

sideswipe

pjohnson wrote: »

Some of that age bracket only think of themselves. Hence the moronic house parties. When they grow up some get sense and responsibilities.

That’s the nature of being that age. Younger people seem to be the centre of the pearl clutching, curtain twitchers attention, it’s as if they were never young themselves.

Students have party= stupid cretins

Hundreds of Oldies out sings ole ole for Jack= Great to see.

My point is all the tut tutting in the world isn’t fair on anybody, yes we need to be careful- but how much putting important formative years on hold for young people can we expect long term.

FintanMcluskey

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I have a few questions re: masks. I'm neither for nor against them and each to their own. Personally I've no issue wearing in places that ask as much. But I've not heard a convincing answer to the below, and I'm not trying to catch anyone out by the way, generally curious.

1) In the last four months, the places this virus impacted the worst was nursing homes and hospitals, places where masks have always been part of day to day life even before covid (more so in hospitals) and yet in supermarkets and shops, there wasn't a single cluster of cases despite no masks being required?

2) Many European countries mandated the wearing of masks in public early on yet looking at the "curves" there is no obvious difference between countries where masks were mandatory and countries where they were not. Basically, the speed in which cases rose then fell was pretty consistent across Europe. Ironically, Spain, where mask wearing is strictly enforced, some areas are now seeing increases in case numbers. If masks made any significant difference surely this wouldn't be the case?

To me, this says if masks were as effective as some believe, our hospitals and nursing homes would not have been hit as badly, and in theory you should be able to look at data from a mask wearing country vs a non mask country and see a clear difference in case numbers.

Many people (including in government and on this forum) have championed how good Ireland's response has been and how are numbers are excellent etc, yet it was all done without masks and during what looks to have been the height of the pandemic so far.

Heard some interview on the radio a few days ago, dunno who was being interviewed, didnt hear.

Essentially to summarise what was being said, only the surgical grade masks have proven capabilites.

No evidence exists for any other type they said, specifically not cotton.

If you remember that Luke o Neill dude has repeatedly said any type of face coverings is fine, well thats utter bolix seemingly.

Someone on boards made a point a few days ago, about a pattern where Covid has had a high death rate over the 1st 40 days in a country and then the death rate drops off. The cases may rise but it death rate drops off completely. It seems to take vulnerable people initially and whats left is stronger people who have no danger to their lives.

I thought it quite an interesting point, of course the perpetually offended reacted in utter consternation to the theory

munchkin_utd

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I have a few questions re: masks. I'm neither for nor against them and each to their own. Personally I've no issue wearing in places that ask as much. But I've not heard a convincing answer to the below, and I'm not trying to catch anyone out by the way, generally curious.
<snip>

in nursing homes you have people in really really close contact, nurses bathing or changing old people. You also have enclosed spaces with little ventilation(you want to keep the heat in!), and you have lots and lots of speaking, talking, chatting which produces droplets and aerosols in far higher quantities than in shops where people generally dont talk. The talking might also be quite close to peoples faces as old people can be half deaf. Theres also a problem with relief staff going from place to place so you ended up with it getting brought between nursing homes.
Also, a surgical mask will stop larger droplets as thats what they are designed for but they are fairly open at the sides, so aerosols (those things that the WHO still wont issue a guidance on) get out the side and into the enclosed unventilated space, so can build up and infect anyone in those rooms causing massive outbreaks.

as for the european countries, Spain isnt a good example for how to fight the virus.
When the country was in severe lockdown (i.e. kids not allowed to leave their apartment for 2 months, not even for excercise or to play) the cases were still crazily high and kept that way for noticably longer than Italy or New York, even Ireland had one of the highest cases per capita and got it down fairly quickly.

You don't get transmission so constantly high unless you have people blatantly ignoring the lockdown or some other breakdown in controls. Masks won't help if people are sabatoging public health measures in other ways (the only other explaination would be some sort of a link to air conditioning or ventilation systems, but theres no studies showing a link to Spains strangely consistently high cases).