How will schools be able to go back in September?

drunkmonkey · 28-07-2020 10:27AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

As a teacher and a parent I'm worried about my own kids and the kids in my care. I also work in a school (which must children attend) where I know the principal will cut corners and I'm not 100% sure they school will be safe for anyone. They are currently running July provision and if my child was attending I'd be up in arms. And I'm sure I'm not alone in working in an environment like that. The guidelines are too open to interpretation so it remains to be seen what will actually happen in reality.

What cutting corners, this is an experiment, most guidelines are open to interpretation and very few based on science as it's still evolving, it's all guesswork. The only possible way it can work is in pods and everyone has to be in a pod at school and at home, that goes for the cleaners etc.
Prevention has to start at our borders, I don't think it's fair to make kids and teachers the guinea pigs. The pubs should have opened on time as it would have be a trial run for the schools instead it's the other way round.
We've 3 kids, all in different years, they won't be in the same pod and one isn't even in the same school, they'll all be at home together every evening, even a pod is impossible to keep risk free.

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 10:28AM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Also a large number of teachers, like myself, who teach science and maths in fact do have BSc's, MSc's and even some PhDs. They require you to study science to teach it.

Apologies to you and of course you're right (PhD though, is that really necessary??), I'm thinking more of primary than secondary all the time. It's a very different animal.

I fully support mandatory PPE, social distancing and 50/50 numbers where sd to 1 metre can't be maintained at secondary level.

JustAThought · 28-07-2020 10:28AM

It all seems to be bit á la carte - the government has its financial objectives in place with regard to facilitating day long childcare at any cost to trachers and children to enable the economy recover and taxes be earned.

In the meantime, ton facilitate their September deadline & childminding problem they have been frantically backpedaling on their original diagnosis that children are carriers and highly contagious despite emerging graphs to the contary and Re happy for teachers to fall on their shields to facilitate ecominic growth - while changing the law to ensure that office workers must be safe in work or allowed work from home - excepting teachers of course - who else will mind the nations children and allow the economy to progress and them to continue their fiscal and financial cycle.

Teachers are utterly disposable in this and to an extent so ate
the children. But we can see in the lack of policing ir rangers in parks and public places where hildren are gathered in throngs and there is zero hand wiping after using playground equipment not social distancing anymore that the will to secure the health of the people is fast fading amongst copied rhetoric from other models - unlike New Zealand who put their people first and unlike itherncountries who put health above economics we are fiddling with the buttons while the house is burning.

The teachers and children will pay the price and like the other great HSE and political scandals it will be swept under the carpet and shoulders shrugged.

Where are the unions in this ?

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 10:32AM

Boggles wrote: »

Also part of the "plan" is to tap 300 teachers who trained in the UK.

Obviously given your stance, you would be against hiring them?

University education is unfortunately reserved for those who can pay for it in the UK, so technically I don't care where they choose to work.

But as for public sector jobs in Ireland, I believe University admissions to these courses should take into consideration numbers needed in the future, and subbing should indeed be an inevitable part of paying your dues in Teaching.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:32AM

joe40 wrote: »

I think part of the reason is the hassle of getting re registered. The TC are not the easiest to deal with.

I had 20 years experience in NI teaching and the hassle to get registered was far too much. I still have to do a stupid exam for full registration.

I trained in The UK. Hoops to jump through on my return home was ridiculous. Three from the one course came home at the same time and they accepted things from some and not from others. All the exact same documents with the same signatures from the university. They just seemed to make up different hoops.

lulublue22 · 28-07-2020 10:33AM

JustAThought wrote: »

It all seems to be bit á la carte - the government has its financial objectives in place with regard to facilitating day long childcare at any cost to trachers and children to enable the economy recover and taxes be earned.

In the meantime, ton facilitate their September deadline & childminding problem they have been frantically backpedaling on their original diagnosis that children are carriers and highly contagious despite emerging graphs to the contary and Re happy for teachers to fall on their shields to facilitate ecominic growth - while changing the law to ensure that office workers must be safe in work or allowed work from home - excepting teachers of course - who else will mind the nations children and allow the economy to progress and them to continue their fiscal and financial cycle.

Teachers are utterly disposable in this and to an extent so ate
the children. But we can see in the lack of policing ir rangers in parks and public places where hildren are gathered in throngs and there is zero hand wiping after using playground equipment not social distancing anymore that the will to secure the health of the people is fast fading amongst copied rhetoric from other models - unlike New Zealand who put their people first and unlike itherncountries who put health above economics we are fiddling with the buttons while the house is burning.

The teachers and children will pay the price and like the other great HSE and political scandals it will be swept under the carpet and shoulders shrugged.

Where are the unions in this ?

Teaching Unions get huge amount of stick in the media and from the public any time they try to highlight issues. At this stage best thing teaching unions can do is stay quiet and leave what happens happen. There would be uproar if the teaching unions came out against this and nothing in my opinion would be achieved. The vast majority want schools reopen fully and will swallow the official line of SD in classes of 30 hook line and sinker.

khalessi · 28-07-2020 10:34AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Apologies to you and of course you're right (PhD though, is that really necessary??), I'm thinking more of primary than secondary all the time. It's a very different animal.

I fully support mandatory PPE, social distancing and 50/50 numbers where sd to 1 metre can't be maintained at secondary level.

Christ do you hear yourself? There are many people in primary who have science degrees and other professional qualificiations including Phds. Are you going to apologise to the primary sector now? Primary may be a different animal but we have very professional people working in it and not all of us started as 19 year olds to do a B.Ed and some who did went on to get other qualifications.

You really do not know who is teaching your children. I would also include SNAs who have amazing qualifications prior to becoming SNAs.

Your comments this morning are illuminating on your attitude to education.

Boggles · 28-07-2020 10:35AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

University education is unfortunately reserved for those who can pay for it in the UK, so technically I don't care where they choose to work.

But as for public sector jobs in Ireland, I believe University admissions to these courses should take into consideration numbers needed in the future, and subbing should indeed be an inevitable part of paying your dues in Teaching.

Huh?

So anyone who trained at an Irish university and works for the public sector is handcuffed to the public sector for their entire working life?

Have you been drinking?

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:40AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

University education is unfortunately reserved for those who can pay for it in the UK, so technically I don't care where they choose to work.

But as for public sector jobs in Ireland, I believe University admissions to these courses should take into consideration numbers needed in the future, and subbing should indeed be an inevitable part of paying your dues in Teaching.

So people should be locked into working/staying in Ireland for let's say 10 years after qualification? What utter gutter....

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 10:40AM

Boggles wrote: »

So anyone who trained at an Irish university and works for the public sector is handcuffed to the public sector for their entire working life?

It's 2012. I know in 2016 that 200 teachers are going to retire, because they have reached their years of service/ retirement age (however they are working it out these days). I know I need to replace 200 teachers in 2016. Whatever do I do??

Boggles wrote: »

Huh?

Have you been drinking?

Listen, I bet all your colleagues in the staff room think you're very funny and clever, but actually this constant interjection is just the noise that an empty vessel makes. The only result of it is time wasting.

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 10:41AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So people should be locked into working/staying in Ireland for let's say 10 years after qualification? What utter gutter....

Don't they do it with the teaching hours before qualification??

Bobtheman · 28-07-2020 10:42AM

The opening will be a disaster. Four weeks to reconfigure schools? Where would you get the builders? Four weeks to get teachers?!
We have some of the biggest class sizes in Europe. A lot of old buildings.

The department need to clarify if resource teachers can be moved back in classroom if necessary.
To be honest SD will largely be ignored at secondary level. You leave kids on their own between classes and the place will be a pig sty.
Thus the Idea of teachers moving around is a non runner in a lot of schools because of the above plus most schools don't have work spaces for teachers.
Furthermore you'd have to totally abandon IT use in classrooms if we moved as IT equipment gets broken if not over seen by one teacher.

Boggles · 28-07-2020 10:44AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's 2012. I know in 2016 that 200 teachers are going to retire, because they have reached their years of service/ retirement age (however they are working it out these days). I know I need to replace 200 teachers in 2016. Whatever do I do??

You kidnap certain citizens and force them to work?

We have a shortage of skilled trades people too, they were trained in our educational system, do we kidnap them too?

Lillyfae wrote: »

Listen, I bet all your colleagues in the staff room think you're very funny and clever, but actually this constant interjection is just the noise that an empty vessel makes. The only result of it is time wasting.

I'm not a teacher.

You are on fire this morning.

Why the jealousy? You obvious have a massive chip on your shoulder against teachers?

Why?

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:45AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's 2012. I know in 2016 that 200 teachers are going to retire, because the have reached their years of service/ retirement age (however they are working it out these days). I know I need to replace 200 teachers in 2016. Whatever do I do??

.

Retirement doesn't really work that way though. People retire early, people qualify and then decide to go in a different direction into industry, people go abroad, families come home. The situation is very fluid.

Teacher recruitment/retainment is primarily determined by terms and conditions and these have been greatly eroded.

joe40 · 28-07-2020 10:49AM

JustAThought wrote: »

It all seems to be bit á la carte - the government has its financial objectives in place with regard to facilitating day long childcare at any cost to trachers and children to enable the economy recover and taxes be earned.

In the meantime, ton facilitate their September deadline & childminding problem they have been frantically backpedaling on their original diagnosis that children are carriers and highly contagious despite emerging graphs to the contary and Re happy for teachers to fall on their shields to facilitate ecominic growth - while changing the law to ensure that office workers must be safe in work or allowed work from home - excepting teachers of course - who else will mind the nations children and allow the economy to progress and them to continue their fiscal and financial cycle.

Teachers are utterly disposable in this and to an extent so ate
the children. But we can see in the lack of policing ir rangers in parks and public places where hildren are gathered in throngs and there is zero hand wiping after using playground equipment not social distancing anymore that the will to secure the health of the people is fast fading amongst copied rhetoric from other models - unlike New Zealand who put their people first and unlike itherncountries who put health above economics we are fiddling with the buttons while the house is burning.

The teachers and children will pay the price and like the other great HSE and political scandals it will be swept under the carpet and shoulders shrugged.

Where are the unions in this ?

It is important for our children, our society and our economy that schools reopen. I want it to be as safe as possible but Education is vitally important for all sorts of reasons.
There are rural children that have had minimal contact with their peers in months. My own two teenagers are examples.

r93kaey5p2izun · 28-07-2020 10:52AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

People know this going in. Why are we training teachers for other economies??

The vast majority of teachers are now trained by Hibernia. They pay for it themselves. Many of them also have a BSc, despite your belief otherwise.

I have 2xBSc and an MSc (in a health science) and an MEd. I paid for my own teacher training. I feel I'm reasonably well placed to interpret the relevant research, and to look at these guidelines in the realistic context of schools, having taught for 13 years in a DEIS school. I also run my own business so am quite familiar with the pressing needs of the economy and the realities of implementing Covid regulations. I find many of your posts so far removed from reality as to be comical.

zeebre12 · 28-07-2020 10:56AM

Regarding primary will schools be looking for full time teachers or just a substitute to do the odd day like before?

thenetherrealm · 28-07-2020 10:57AM

joe40 wrote: »

It is important for our children, our society and our economy that schools reopen. I want it to be as safe as possible but Education is vitally important for all sorts of reasons.
There are rural children that have had minimal contact with their peers in months. My own two teenagers are examples.

Then do your duty as a parent and organise safe, outdoor, small group gathering for your children! But no, it's easier and more convenient for you to shove them into underfunded, overcrowded classrooms of 25-30 children and not think about them for 7 hours. Bet you'll be the first one here blaming teachers for not enforcing SD when the schools inevitably close again.

Icyseanfitz · 28-07-2020 10:58AM

I think instead of having excess teachers and school staff this year, we will have less. The downright hatred and negativity aimed at them by the public combined with a complete lack of care for their safety (or their kids for that matter) will lead to many early retirments and career changes. This plan has added no workable safety measures to schools, none, it flies completely in the face of public health advice and is the opposite of everything we had to do to get covid-19 to where it currently is in our country. In my opinion, it is a slap in the face not only to educators but to medical staff and other front line workers that worked so hard since March.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:59AM

zeebre12 wrote: »

Regarding primary will schools be looking for full time teachers or just a substitute to do the odd day like before?

I would imagine that the supply panels will be temporary jobs with a 10 or 12 month contract. Day to day subbing will also continue.

the corpo · 28-07-2020 11:01AM

Is it confirmed in the doc that kids from 3rd class up *don't* have to be a metre apart from each other within a pod of 5 or 6, but just that the pod must be a metre away from the next?

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 11:03AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I think instead of having excess teachers and school staff this year, we will have less. The downright hatred and negativity aimed at them by the public combined with a complete lack of care for their safety (or their kids for that matter) will lead to many early retirments and career changes. This plan has added no workable safety measures to schools, none, it flies completely in the face of public health advice and is the opposite of everything we had to do to get covid-19 to where it currently is in our country. In my opinion, it is a slap in the face not only to educators but to medical staff and other front line workers that worked so hard since March.

Two members of staff in our school are going out on sick leave. Got told on the quiet this morning. That is out of a staff of 11. Will be interesting to see the level of long term sick leave this year where people aren't willing to take the chance.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 11:05AM

the corpo wrote: »

Is it confirmed in the doc that kids from 3rd class up *don't* have to be a metre apart from each other within a pod of 5 or 6, but just that the pod must be a metre away from the next?

My interpretation is that the pod has to be 1m away from the next pod.

Having said that John Boyles segment on Virgin Media news yesterday had the children within a pod 1m apart. If that is the case then I can fit maybe 18 at a squeeze.

We don't have any spare rooms or space.

joe40 · 28-07-2020 11:05AM

thenetherrealm wrote: »

Then do your duty as a parent and organise safe, outdoor, small group gathering for your children! But no, it's easier and more convenient for you to shove them into underfunded, overcrowded classrooms of 25-30 children and not think about them for 7 hours. Bet you'll be the first one here blaming teachers for not enforcing SD when the schools inevitably close again.

Firstly I am a teacher and understand the risks.
However small group gatherings are fine but teenagers need the interaction that only a school can provide.
We need to live with this virus it is not going away.
This is a plan it will need to be tweaked and amended as it is implemented, but at this stage I think we need to get started.

If I thought things would be better after Christmas then definitely extend the lockdown, but there is no indication things will be better in the medium term, years maybe.

Icyseanfitz · 28-07-2020 11:08AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Two members of staff in our school are going out on sick leave. Got told on the quiet this morning. That is out of a staff of 11. Will be interesting to see the level of long term sick leave this year where people aren't willing to take the chance.

I signed up for salary protection earlier this year, I'd be tempted to take sick leave. Be nice to be able to spend Christmas with my family, or meet my friends over the next few months. If I go back to work with this lack of precautions I won't see anyone other than my wife, and she is high risk on top of it all.

Joe Kane · 28-07-2020 11:09AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I think instead of having excess teachers and school staff this year, we will have less. The downright hatred and negativity aimed at them by the public combined with a complete lack of care for their safety (or their kids for that matter) will lead to many early retirments and career changes. This plan has added no workable safety measures to schools, none, it flies completely in the face of public health advice and is the opposite of everything we had to do to get covid-19 to where it currently is in our country. In my opinion, it is a slap in the face not only to educators but to medical staff and other front line workers that worked so hard since March.

Spare a thought for those of us with children that are extremely compromised too with respiratory conditions. These children and us parent's of said children seems to be completely forgotten about. It's not all about yourselves (teachers).

It boils my blood reading this thread and listening to the likes of Ciara Kelly coming out with statements like ''Lets face it guys the teachers are the main concern here''. It's not the main or only concern at all.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 11:11AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

It boils my blood reading this thread and listening to the likes of Ciara Kelly coming out with statements like ''Lets face it guys the teachers are the main concern here''. It's not the main or only concern at all.

Did she say that yesterday?

r93kaey5p2izun · 28-07-2020 11:11AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

Spare a thought for those of us with children that are extremely compromised too with respiratory conditions. These children and us parent's of said children seems to be completely forgotten about. It's not all about yourselves (teachers).

It boils my blood reading this thread and listening to the likes of Ciara Kelly coming out with statements like ''Lets face it guys the teachers are the main concern here''. It's not the main or only concern at all.

The arrangement for these children is covered in the documents. They are not forgotten about. And I'm sure you realise that the good doctor is being sarcastic in her statement.

Icyseanfitz · 28-07-2020 11:14AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

Spare a thought for those of us with children that are extremely compromised too with respiratory conditions. These children and us parent's of said children seems to be completely forgotten about. It's not all about yourselves (teachers).

It boils my blood reading this thread and listening to the likes of Ciara Kelly coming out with statements like ''Lets face it guys the teachers are the main concern here''. It's not the main or only concern at all.

Oh no not at all, many of my poor students are high risk for this, I have type 1 diabetics, severe asthmatics, epileptics and other immunocompromised kids. I'm terrified for them, on top of that a few of them come from families that will be overjoyed at the thought of throwing them into school as normal. I think students (particularly PP) are after being completely forgotten about, every bit as much as staff.

Joe Kane · 28-07-2020 11:14AM

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

The arrangement for these children is covered in the documents. They are not forgotten about. And I'm sure you realise that the good doctor is being sarcastic in her statement.

She wasn't being sarcastic at all, she was agreeing with everything her 4 callers whom were all teachers were saying.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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