How will schools be able to go back in September?

downthemiddle · 23-07-2020 12:55PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

The scheme has been available since 2013.

Isn't it available annually?

I read the circular, available here:
https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0062_2013.pdf

The minor works grant is an annual joke for school leaders and BOMs. The DES decide on an annual basis whether or not to pay it. If there’s enough money down the side of the couch it’s paid. It is to be used for general repairs etc in schools. As part of the new programme for government there is now a commitment to pay it on an annual basis.
A grant due next November is not the answer to the problems schools are facing at the moment.

FishOnABike · 23-07-2020 01:04PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Many thanks Murple for the detailed reply.

Taking another angle, we could say 80% of classes have less than 30 children per class.

We could draw a line in the sans, i.e. 29 and no more. The other schools are then prioritized and funding delivered to assist the 20% in the high density classes to reduce their class sizes.

I'd be happy to promote that and write to government etc with that in mind. It would probably be a good thing too even after covid19 finishes

What do you think, would that be of any help?

I'd base it on the guidelines already issued for third level and further education, and the guidelines for workplaces, government offices, and public spaces.

If the Department of Education and Skills haven't already sought and collated information from the primary and secondary schools around the country to establish the impact of complying with these guidelines then they haven't even started to begin to define the problem let alone plan on how to deal with it.

Sticking their head in the sand won't make it go away.

Necro · 23-07-2020 01:08PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote:

Covid payment doesn't equal losing your job, it just means that due to covid you can't attend your workplace have no option to work from home.

What are you on about?

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment is for those who lost their jobs due to businesses having to close

People working from home didn't lose their jobs so are not eligible.

Please do not talk nonsense about things you clearly know nothing about.

timmy_mallet · 23-07-2020 01:13PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

Well if you don't first identify the potential problems you can't put solutions in place to avoid them.

And at what point does problem finding cease and solutioning begin? Or is it not in their remit?

History Queen · 23-07-2020 01:14PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

And at what point does problem finding cease and solutioning begin? Or is it not in their remit?

As already outlined they have proposed solutions.

timmy_mallet · 23-07-2020 01:16PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

As a parent that daily change of clothes idea has my head wrecked. There will be 3 of us changing daily. For parents I reckon uncrested tracksuits picked up cheaply in Dunnes should do. Couple of pairs easy to wash and dry. Less stress on parents as possible. For myself I’m thinking of easy wash leggings and a warm top for next year.

It's ridiculous. What about school bags? Are they not made of similar fabrics? Coats, hang them up on a tree outside? Gloves in winter, wash them every day? Hats, the same?

School books, school books! Reckon coronavirus can live on that for a few days, no books please.

It's farcical and, to be honest, best ignored.

wirelessdude01 · 23-07-2020 01:16PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

And at what point does problem finding cease and solutioning begin? Or is it not in their remit?

Ohh sweet Jesus.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-07-2020 01:23PM

Necro wrote: »

What are you on about?

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment is for those who lost their jobs due to businesses having to close

People working from home didn't lose their jobs so are not eligible.

Please do not talk nonsense about things you clearly know nothing about.

What do you think all non essential workers were being paid while they waited for their businesses to open back up?

Not everyone can work from home and in case you don't remember not many places were allowed to open, those employees were allowed to apply for the Covid payment of €350 a week unless their employer was putting it through as wage subsidy.

They didn't lose their jobs, most are back working. What do you think hairdressers, non essential retailers, construction workers etc the like were living on this whole time?

Might take some of your own advice because you clearly know nothing about it.

Deeec · 23-07-2020 01:36PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’ll take the compliment ðŸ˜ Like any profession there is good and not so good. That’s not unique to teaching. What I will say is there is a grievance policy that parents can follow - teacher first if not resolved principal , then BOM and then Dep. I would genuinely be interested if any if the posters who where unhappy with the educational provision followed that procedure.
Also we are in an unprecedented situation - online teaching in my opinion is not great for primary school children and tbf there are a load if issues re hardware / broad band parents trying to work etc. Coupled with the very last minute nature of the close down - we were told at 12 that we were closed for 2weeks and to get work organised for that period. I’m not surprised that responses varied from school to school. Hopefully if we have to return to blended / online learning then lessons will have been learnt and a more cohesive plan in place.

ETA I genuinely believe that there are by far more hard working conscientious teachers than not - it’s just that we don’t get to hear if them as often. You just have to look at this thread to see how committed teachers are.

I did complain to the Principle regarding the lack of homeschooling the kids were receiving ( as did many other parents in the school) and got no response. Being honest I didnt go any further with a complaint as I believed that the DOE would put a standard procedure in place on homeschooling/blended learning over the summer and my problem would be solved! Im hoping they still do put something in place on this.

I have to ad I have no issues with any of my kids teachers while they were in school ( they are excellent ). Parents with kids in secondary schools have told me that the level of engagement from their kids teachers was very diverse - some were excellent - some they heard absolutely nothing from. So even within schools the level of contact with students varied from teacher to teacher.

Necro · 23-07-2020 01:37PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote:

What do you think all non essential workers were being paid while they waited for their businesses to open back up?

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment. Keep up, this is very simple.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote:

Not everyone can work from home and in case you don't remember not many places were allowed to open, those employees were allowed to apply for the Covid payment of â‚¬350 a week unless their employer was putting it through as wage subsidy.

Exactly. Teachers were working from home, why would they be put on the Pandemic payment.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote:

They didn't lose their jobs, most are back working. What do you think hairdressers, non essential retailers, construction workers etc the like were living on this whole time?

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment. Keep up, it's very simple. They lost their jobs due to businesses having to close. (hence it being referred to as an Unemployment Payment, the key is in the name)

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote:

Might take some of your own advice because you clearly know nothing about it.

You're raving here about teachers going onto a payment that they are clearly not eligible for. Why even bring it up unless you're trying to get a rise out of people.

Deeec · 23-07-2020 01:41PM

Necro wrote: »

What are you on about?

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment is for those who lost their jobs due to businesses having to close

People working from home didn't lose their jobs so are not eligible.

Please do not talk nonsense about things you clearly know nothing about.

However Necro some teachers just simply didnt work during the period from home or otherwise. They let the profession down big time.

beggars_bush · 23-07-2020 01:44PM

Deeec wrote: »

However Necro some teachers just simply didnt work during the period from home or otherwise. They let the profession down big time.

Ara here.
Report them to the teaching council then

Boggles · 23-07-2020 01:57PM

So the Pandemic Unemployment Payment has nothing to do with people losing their jobs.

Seems legit.

the corpo · 23-07-2020 01:58PM

Excellent headlining from Broadsheet

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/07/23/what-will-the-neighbours-say/

"I think it would reflect very badly on us if we were unable to open schools in August, when other countries that suffered much worse than us didn’t close them fully”

Yeah, I think the reflection is worse that our education system is a shambolic, prehistoric HAMES compared to our neighbours. Reflects terribly on us that we haven't the infrastructure in place that a safe return is proving such a herculean feat....

Icyseanfitz · 23-07-2020 02:02PM

the corpo wrote: »

Excellent headlining from Broadsheet

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/07/23/what-will-the-neighbours-say/

"I think it would reflect very badly on us if we were unable to open schools in August, when other countries that suffered much worse than us didn’t close them fully”

Yeah, I think the reflection is worse that our education system is a shambolic, prehistoric HAMES compared to our neighbours. Reflects terribly on us that we haven't the infrastructure in place that a safe return is proving such a herculean feat....

Sounds like they want to rush and reopen simply to hold face with other countries regardless of circumstance. God I hope they put some sort plan in place and don't royaly cock this up.

Deeec · 23-07-2020 02:02PM

Boggles wrote: »

So the Pandemic Unemployment Payment has nothing to do with people losing their jobs.

Seems legit.

It is not just paid to people who have lost their jobs. It is also paid to people who are temporarily unable to do their jobs due to covid.

Boggles · 23-07-2020 02:03PM

Deeec wrote: »

It is not just paid to people who have lost their jobs. It is also paid to people who are temporarily unable to do their jobs due to covid.

So temporarily Unemployed?

emmaro · 23-07-2020 02:06PM

Deeec wrote: »

However Necro some teachers just simply didnt work during the period from home or otherwise. They let the profession down big time.

Sorry but the number of posts on various social media/actual people I know in other professions bragging about how they've outsmarted the tracker or whatever on their laptop to make it seem like they're still working by automatically moving the mouse etc. is staggering.

But people act like it was only teachers slacking. I can only speak for myself and my colleagues, but we worked much longer hours than when we were not working from home.

I worked in the private sector for years before becoming a secondary school teacher. I prefer teaching and it provides me with much more job satisfaction, but these last few months have made me want to go back to my previous job. I worked much longer than I normally would as I had to plan, create, edit videos for my two subjects and seven different class groups. I was doing Zoom classes during normal school hours, so creating the resources was done usually between 5-11pm. My friends from my old job were doing the exact same thing as in the office, just from home. Nothing changed.

I am so tired of people saying I shouldn't be paid for working from home. No one says this about other professions when all professions have people who are slackers.

We are also crucified for wanting a safe work environment like everyone else is getting (protection screens etc.)

Lillyfae · 23-07-2020 02:06PM

Deeec wrote: »

It is not just paid to people who have lost their jobs. It is also paid to people who are temporarily unable to do their jobs due to covid.

Yes, I believe that the company "furloughs" the employee and pays a government grant out- might be wrong so no need for anyone to snipe. But that's the jist of it.

There's a real difficulty staying on topic for some people here, highly irritating. Is it necessary to be so pedantic?

Lillyfae · 23-07-2020 02:07PM

Boggles wrote: »

So temporarily Unemployed?

No. Furloughed.

Boggles · 23-07-2020 02:11PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

No. Furloughed.

Yip, that is just another name for involuntary unemployment.

Deeec · 23-07-2020 02:15PM

Boggles wrote: »

So temporarily Unemployed?

They dont have to lose their jobs to qualify - they can still be retained on the payroll and paid €350 until they can resume their full role.

the corpo · 23-07-2020 02:17PM

Jaysis, I made a great indignant post just a moment ago about Leo's statement today and it's disappeared back a few pages in a flash! You lot are on pedantic fire this afternoon

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-07-2020 02:17PM

Necro wrote: »

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment. Keep up, this is very simple.

Exactly. Teachers were working from home, why would they be put on the Pandemic payment.

The Pandemic Unemployment Payment. Keep up, it's very simple. They lost their jobs due to businesses having to close. (hence it being referred to as an Unemployment Payment, the key is in the name)

You're raving here about teachers going onto a payment that they are clearly not eligible for. Why even bring it up unless you're trying to get a rise out of people.

We are discussing September.

If the schools remain closed (which they won't) and teachers can't work from home (online learning at this stage should only reserved for local school closures in the event of cases) then yes teachers will find themselves eligible to apply for Covid payment.

Online educational learning does not work well for kids.

Add to that the complete disparity between teachers who broke their backsides working day and night to do their best to continue educating their classes and those who basically had a paid holiday before their paid holiday.

The few ruined it for all, that's what happened, and that's why online learning will not be considered as a serious full nationwide solution when September comes.

Necro · 23-07-2020 02:25PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote:

If the schools remain closed (which they won't) and teachers can't work from home (online learning at this stage should only reserved for local school closures in the event of cases) then yes teachers will find themselves eligible to apply for Covid payment.

No they won't. Schools won't ever 'close' to the point that thousands of teachers will suddenly be made redundant.

That's just a fantasy made up in your head to have another go at teachers. Pretty much par for the course for yourself throughout the thread, so I'll leave you at it. Just wanted to point out how terribly uninformed you are in relation to social welfare.

Necro · 23-07-2020 02:30PM

Boggles wrote:

So the Pandemic Unemployment Payment has nothing to do with people losing their jobs.

It's pointless semantics by people who know the sum total of eff all about the supports in place for the pandemic by DEASP.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-07-2020 02:31PM

Necro wrote: »

No they won't. Schools won't ever 'close' to the point that thousands of teachers will suddenly be made redundant.

That's just a fantasy made up in your head to have another go at teachers. Pretty much par for the course for yourself throughout the thread, so I'll leave you at it. Just wanted to point out how terribly uninformed you are in relation to social welfare.

Why not? Over 1 million people in this country found themselves in this position for the same reasons, so why not teachers?

FishOnABike · 23-07-2020 02:37PM

the corpo wrote: »

Excellent headlining from Broadsheet

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/07/23/what-will-the-neighbours-say/

"I think it would reflect very badly on us if we were unable to open schools in August, when other countries that suffered much worse than us didn’t close them fully”

Yeah, I think the reflection is worse that our education system is a shambolic, prehistoric HAMES compared to our neighbours. Reflects terribly on us that we haven't the infrastructure in place that a safe return is proving such a herculean feat....

The flip-side of this is that neither were they fully open. Schools in most other countries were better resourced and implemented a range of measures - social distancing, visors, face masks, improved respiratory and hand hygiene, reduced pupil numbers per class to between 30% and 50% of normal, rescheduling start, break and finish times to reduce mixing between classes, split week attendance e.g. alternare days, alternate weeks, split weeks, etc.

Expecting our schools to operate as if nothing has happened is living on cloud nine.

frillyleaf · 23-07-2020 03:03PM

emmaro wrote: »

Sorry but the number of posts on various social media/actual people I know in other professions bragging about how they've outsmarted the tracker or whatever on their laptop to make it seem like they're still working by automatically moving the mouse etc. is staggering.

But people act like it was only teachers slacking. I can only speak for myself and my colleagues, but we worked much longer hours than when we were not working from home.

I worked in the private sector for years before becoming a secondary school teacher. I prefer teaching and it provides me with much more job satisfaction, but these last few months have made me want to go back to my previous job. I worked much longer than I normally would as I had to plan, create, edit videos for my two subjects and seven different class groups. I was doing Zoom classes during normal school hours, so creating the resources was done usually between 5-11pm. My friends from my old job were doing the exact same thing as in the office, just from home. Nothing changed.

I am so tired of people saying I shouldn't be paid for working from home. No one says this about other professions when all professions have people who are slackers.

We are also crucified for wanting a safe work environment like everyone else is getting (protection screens etc.)

That is a huge amount of extra work on top of the workload that you would normally have done. It’s time consuming preparing PowerPoints, lesson plans, resources and correcting in a normal teaching day so adding editing on top of this is massive

Multipass · 23-07-2020 03:38PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

We are discussing September.

If the schools remain closed (which they won't) and teachers can't work from home (online learning at this stage should only reserved for local school closures in the event of cases) then yes teachers will find themselves eligible to apply for Covid payment.

Online educational learning does not work well for kids.

Add to that the complete disparity between teachers who broke their backsides working day and night to do their best to continue educating their classes and those who basically had a paid holiday before their paid holiday.

The few ruined it for all, that's what happened, and that's why online learning will not be considered as a serious full nationwide solution when September comes.

I agree, some teachers did work hard and kept in touch with their students. And at the same time some students worked really hard and engaged with everything they could. What ruins it are the students (and parents) crying unfair, because they supposedly have no access to the internet, the reality being that their kids couldn’t be bothered. And they’re the same people who will kill online learning for everyone. You shouldn’t have to hold back the education of the willing because of that kind of carry on. Personal responsibility should come into it (I’m talking about teenagers here, not primary)

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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