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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #4892
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/ons-figures-reveal-65-covid-related-deaths-in-education/

    As this is from a while ago it is no doubt more. Done discussing this. Not into the business of discussing numbers as if people expendable. The only reason I mentioned it was to highlight that it has happened. I think you're the type of person that would argue all day and night on boards and I'm the fool who is taking the bait. I believe every job should be as safe as it can be and would argue for any profession where safety standards weren't being upheld. I think it's really really sad that people's bitterness and resentment towards teachers is fuelling this disregard for their health ans safety. And let's remember any covid spread in a school goes back to all the homes the children go home to too. So all these work from home parents who can happily and safely work from home till january will not be safe it either. Teachers are actually fighting for everyone's right to health here but people are just too blind to see it. This thread is really toxic.

    So 65 teachers didn't die from Covid like you claimed. It was less than that. Theres no causal relationship between employment and death there and no information on where the virus was caught. Death rate of teachers from Covid in the UK is lower than almost all other professions. (the dataset I linked to has loads of info if you want to flick through it).

    This isn't resentment on my part, it's frustration.


  • #4893
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    So all these work from home parents who can happily and safely work from home till january will not be safe it either.

    That comes across as a bit envious to be honest.

    Not many parents actually have the option to work from home at all and will be well back to work by the time September comes and it's business as usual for many who never actually stopped working.

    Some have had to choose to leave their jobs and others have been fired due to the lack of available childcare options. Others will have seen their own businesses decimated.

    Pay cuts for a lot of people who have managed to hold on to their jobs, less hours available, no annual leave accrual for those on covid payments etc etc


  • #4894
    kandr10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭kandr10


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    That comes across as a bit envious to be honest.

    Not many parents actually have the option to work from home at all and will be well back to work by the time September comes and it's business as usual for many who never actually stopped working.

    Some have had to choose to leave their jobs and others have been fired due to the lack of available childcare options. Others will have seen their own businesses decimated.

    Pay cuts for a lot of people who have managed to hold on to their jobs, less hours available, no annual leave accrual for those on covid payments etc etc

    You have made this claim before that not many people can work from home. Where are you getting the info on those numbers?
    There’s a lot of speculation on here based on people’s own experiences. I know you’ve been working throughout and presumably are in contact with people who have not been working from home. My experience on the other hand is that most people I know have been able to. My experience is very few kids or teens have been mixing whereas yours, and the experience of a few others is different. So who is right? Is our own perception just skewed?


  • #4895
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    kandr10 wrote: »
    You have made this claim before that not many people can work from home. Where are you getting the info on those numbers?
    There’s a lot of speculation on here based on people’s own experiences. I know you’ve been working throughout and presumably are in contact with people who have not been working from home. My experience on the other hand is that most people I know have been able to. My experience is very few kids or teens have been mixing whereas yours, and the experience of a few others is different. So who is right? Is our own perception just skewed?

    It very much depend on where you are maybe ? I look at my own road and estate and family . Most here in my area cannot work from home , taxi drivers, retail, nurses , carers , lab staff , creche workers , electricians , plumbers , An post workers , chefs , drivers , hair dressers , porters , fire fighters and Gardai etc

    And I see kids daily playing together , teens sitting in small groups on greens , kids in playgrounds etc
    Mind you having said all that not a single person in the estate has been hospitalised with Covid or indeed have I heard of anyone who had it locally


  • #4896
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,120 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    It very much depend on where you are maybe ? I look at my own road and estate and family . Most here in my area cannot work from home , taxi drivers, retail, nurses , carers , lab staff , creche workers , electricians , plumbers , An post workers , chefs , drivers , hair dressers , porters , fire fighters and Gardai etc

    And I see kids daily playing together , teens sitting in small groups on greens , kids in playgrounds etc
    Mind you having said all that not a single person in the estate has been hospitalised with Covid or indeed have I heard of anyone who had it locally

    Ya see the thing there is that none of those workers listed will be in a normal to small sized room for near 5 hours with roughly 25+ other people save for maybe creche workers although from my understanding they're operating small sized bubbles with one adult per bubble.

    People want to say shur just go back as normal like everyone else and tbh I'm prepared to do so as I'm young and in perfect health but the thing is most workers aren't back as normal there are measures in place for them or their line of work doesn't take place in confined crowded indoor places so going back as normal isn't a problem.

    Very few people outside of the education sector seem to grasp the risks teachers will be facing if this virus isn't all but gone come September.


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  • #4897
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    It must be a frightening time for parents of immuno compromised children (or parents with conditions themselves). What happens to those kids in September? Or teachers for that matter - like you selecta I'm in perfect health and going back doesn't trouble me but some of my colleagues have health conditions.

    In my ideal world there'd be some sort of online schooling where immuno compromised teachers teach the children who can't attend school. It is probably unworkable but God, I wouldn't like to be facing the choice some parents will have to make.


  • #4898
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    selectamatic wrote: »
    Ya see the thing there is that none of those workers listed will be in a normal to small sized room for near 5 hours with roughly 25+ other people save for maybe creche workers although from my understanding they're operating small sized bubbles with one adult per bubble.

    People want to say shur just go back as normal like everyone else and tbh I'm prepared to do so as I'm young and in perfect health but the thing is most workers aren't back as normal there are measures in place for them or their line of work doesn't take place in confined crowded indoor places so going back as normal isn't a problem.

    Very few people outside of the education sector seem to grasp the risks teachers will be facing if this virus isn't all but gone come September.

    The thing is I was simply mentioning who was around me and that they couldn’t work from home . Nothing more , nothing lessv


  • #4899
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    I think people forget that there have been many people who were young and not immunocompromised that have actually died from this. It's not the majority but it's a good number. I feel particularly sorry for those immunocompromised and older but the fact is there is people who were in good health who have died from this virus. It really is quite frightening when you read their stories.


  • #4900
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    It must be a frightening time for parents of immuno compromised children (or parents with conditions themselves). What happens to those kids in September? Or teachers for that matter - like you selecta I'm in perfect health and going back doesn't trouble me but some of my colleagues have health conditions.

    In my ideal world there'd be some sort of online schooling where immuno compromised teachers teach the children who can't attend school. It is probably unworkable but God, I wouldn't like to be facing the choice some parents will have to make.

    People with underlying conditions or who are immunocompromised are already very used to having to take extra precautions to protect themselves.

    This is nothing new for them, they make these choices all of time.


  • #4901
    kandr10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭kandr10


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    It very much depend on where you are maybe ? I look at my own road and estate and family . Most here in my area cannot work from home , taxi drivers, retail, nurses , carers , lab staff , creche workers , electricians , plumbers , An post workers , chefs , drivers , hair dressers , porters , fire fighters and Gardai etc

    And I see kids daily playing together , teens sitting in small groups on greens , kids in playgrounds etc
    Mind you having said all that not a single person in the estate has been hospitalised with Covid or indeed have I heard of anyone who had it locally

    I suspect you’re right as to it depending on where you are. The problem is on this thread, you and I might both make assertions that we believe to be true but that doesn’t represent how the average in the country is. I seem to be surrounded by cautious to over cautious office workers who have been told they aren’t going back to the office for the foreseeable. Obviously you have people providing the services you mentioned, I just happen not to know too many in those fields. I guess my point is it’s something we should all hear in mind - that our own personal experience does not necessary reflect the norm. I guess you’d need to see census information to find out the proportion of workers in office environments versus other. Similarly perhaps a survey or something to indicate average percentages of kids out mixing etc. A lack of understanding of the other sides experience and perspective seems to be a big cause of the rift between the two sides in this argument.

    Iamwhoiam- I should add I’m just replying to your post as you replied to mine. None of these comments are directed at you personally. I’m just speaking generally.


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  • #4902
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    I think people forget that there have been many people who were young and not immunocompromised that have actually died from this. It's not the majority but it's a good number. I feel particularly sorry for those immunocompromised and older but the fact is there is people who were in good health who have died from this virus. It really is quite frightening when you read their stories.

    I have searched and found no numbers for covid deaths in under 20’s .
    I have only found numbers of 17 deaths in under 30 but it doesn’t give any indication of whether they had underlying conditions
    Have you any numbers that indicate there were many deaths in young people with no underlying conditions ?


    Ps
    Just found it after a lot of searching. Up to June 20 th there were 2300 cases under 25 and no deaths in that age group


    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries5/


  • #4903
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    People with underlying conditions or who are immunocompromised are already very used to having to take extra precautions to protect themselves.

    This is nothing new for them, they make these choices all of time.

    That's not very fair.
    The risk is higher.
    Risk of Covid is very very new this year compared to risk of other viruses last year.


  • #4904
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    People with underlying conditions or who are immunocompromised are already very used to having to take extra precautions to protect themselves.

    This is nothing new for them, they make these choices all of time.

    Perhaps you didn't intend it to come across this way but this strikes me as a very unfeeling post. A couple of kids in my class had immuno compromised family members and from conversations I had with their families via email, I can assure you that this is something new for them. It's an additional level of worry they hadn't faced before and there were fears about sending kids back to school.

    I think that's understandable, surely? I am not saying that school shouldn't resume but some families are taking a bigger risk than others in sending their kids back.


  • #4905
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    People with underlying conditions or who are immunocompromised are already very used to having to take extra precautions to protect themselves.

    This is nothing new for them, they make these choices all of time.

    A really poor post.


  • #4906
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    A really poor post.

    How so?

    Anyone who is immunocompromised already tries to live their day to day life avoiding situations where there is a high risk of them catching something.

    They already base decisions around risk.

    Yes it's scary, yes it's new virus but I can assure you that infection control and risk is not something immunocompromised people are unfamiliar with.

    In fact it's the rest of the population that might struggle more with this new risk to health and the changes it brings.

    I can assure you this is something I have first hand experience with.


  • #4907
    Murple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Murple


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I have searched and found no numbers for covid deaths in under 20’s .
    I have only found numbers of 17 deaths in under 30 but it doesn’t give any indication of whether they had underlying conditions
    Have you any numbers that indicate there were many deaths in young people with no underlying conditions ?


    Ps
    Just found it after a lot of searching. Up to June 20 th there were 2300 cases under 25 and no deaths in that age group


    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries5/

    I think some people interpret ‘underlying conditions’ to mean ‘at deaths door’. Many, many people with underlying conditions can live lives close to normal, bar extra checkups and regular medication. Can you imagine if after a bad road crash or fire, the report read ‘8 people have died. 4 of them had underlying conditions’. It’s almost if when people hear underlying conditions, they think to themselves ‘oh well, that’s not so bad’. ‘Underlying conditions‘ could be asthma or Crohns.


  • #4908
    morebabies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 539 ✭✭✭morebabies


    Looking at what is happening in Catalonia and Israel at the moment with lockdown reimposed due to a surge in cases even in the hot weather there, maybe the Department is being deliberately vague because they know that in all likelihood, the cases and suspected cases which may just be seasonal viruses will skyrocket this autumn.

    How can we plan for prolonged absence of children and staff, a potentially chaotic health system like nothing we have seen before, widespread fear and anxiety, and an increase in the number of deaths in our communities?

    I honestly don't know how you plan for the unprecedented. We can't pretend things will be fine, I think we need to also individually make plans for another lockdown whether we agree with it or not. Yes of course the Department needs to provide a better response which gives schools much clearer guidelines, but I personally think they're afraid to say that we could hit a major crisis next autumn / winter.


  • #4909
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Murple wrote: »
    I think some people interpret ‘underlying conditions’ to mean ‘at deaths door’. Many, many people with underlying conditions can live lives close to normal, bar extra checkups and regular medication. Can you imagine if after a bad road crash or fire, the report read ‘8 people have died. 4 of them had underlying conditions’. It’s almost if when people hear underlying conditions, they think to themselves ‘oh well, that’s not so bad’. ‘Underlying conditions‘ could be asthma or Crohns.

    I understand your point .I was answering a post that claimed there were many deaths among young people and this seems not to be the case at all .


  • #4910
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I have searched and found no numbers for covid deaths in under 20’s .
    I have only found numbers of 17 deaths in under 30 but it doesn’t give any indication of whether they had underlying conditions
    Have you any numbers that indicate there were many deaths in young people with no underlying conditions ?


    Ps
    Just found it after a lot of searching. Up to June 20 th there were 2300 cases under 25 and no deaths in that age group


    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries5/


    Are you only talking about Irish cases? The virus has killed many people in their 20s and 30s, some here and many in other countries as we have had lower number of deaths due to the lockdown. But trust me I've read of young doctors in china, young nurses and when I say young I'm more talking 20s and 30s and 40s though there have also been some cases of children and teens. Sorry but not just referring to Ireland as Irish statistics aren't the only ones that count. If a 30 year old can die from this in china then it is still scary.


  • #4911
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    People with underlying conditions or who are immunocompromised are already very used to having to take extra precautions to protect themselves.

    This is nothing new for them, they make these choices all of time.

    Immuno-suppressed teacher here . I certainly didn’t choose to be IS and even taking every precaution possible , I will be as risk in school . But I still want to be back . Just with as many precautions as possible .


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  • #4912
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    Are you only talking about Irish cases? The virus has killed many people in their 20s and 30s, some here and many in other countries as we have had lower number of deaths due to the lockdown. But trust me I've read of young doctors in china, young nurses and when I say young I'm more talking 20s and 30s and 40s though there have also been some cases of children and teens. Sorry but not just referring to Ireland as Irish statistics aren't the only ones that count. If a 30 year old can die from this in china then it is still scary.

    I know for a fact people in their 30s have died from it but that's not from reading statistics that is because they are real people. It's jsut a reminder that not being immunosupressed does not make anyone invincible. And like I said, a case in America or case in Ireland its the same virus


  • #4913
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I understand your point .I was answering a post that claimed there were many deaths among young people and this seems not to be the case at all .

    I'm not just talking about Ireland here. You do realise there have bee 500000 deaths?


  • #4914
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I understand your point .I was answering a post that claimed there were many deaths among young people and this seems not to be the case at all .

    I'm not just talking about Ireland here. You do realise there have bee 500000 deaths?


  • #4915
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    I'm not just talking about Ireland here. You do realise there have bee 500000 deaths?

    Yes thanks I do realise , no need to be patronising . I presumed you were speaking about Ireland as we were discussing schools in Ireland


  • #4916
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Yes thanks I do realise , no need to be patronising . I presumed you were speaking about Ireland as we were discussing schools in Ireland

    I think it's better to look at the world as a whole when it comes to the virus. Especially given the quarantine here is a joke and not even enforced.


  • #4917
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    I think it's better to look at the world as a whole when it comes to the virus. Especially given the quarantine here is a joke and not even enforced.

    I agree the quarantine here is a joke but has no bearing on the death rate by age group as such


  • #4918
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I agree the quarantine here is a joke but has no bearing on the death rate by age group as such

    Well to be honest I think the death rate by age group is significant no matter where it happens, in my view if people of all ages have died from this virus them people of all ages should be extremely cautious and careful. We are a small population so it's worth looking at bigger populations to see the risk. People.in their 20s and 30s are apparently in the higher number of people getting this now as they are th ones out mixing more most likely.


  • #4919
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I agree the quarantine here is a joke but has no bearing on the death rate by age group as such

    If the quarantine is not enforced and the numbers increase again then it is relevant. I would personally prefer to live in new zealand where they do quarantine properly.


  • #4920
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    If the quarantine is not enforced ans the numbers increase again then it is relevant. I would personally prefer to live in new zealans where they do quarantine properly.

    Yes the numbers of infection will increase without doubt . Whether deaths in young people will increase will have to be seen
    I personally am shocked that anyone can rock into Ireland and so as they please with no controls at all


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  • #4921
    Jim Root
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    If teachers were on the €350-a-week Covid-19 payments, they would have found a way to open the schools before now - Sunday times today


This discussion has been closed.
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