How will schools be able to go back in September?

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

"However, in response to a question from People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny about what a classroom with 30 students, two SNAs and a teacher would look like in September, Mr Christie said it would look empty, because ASTI members would not be there under the current advice".

Now if the union is saying they aren't going to be there that means they will be striking because after a six month closure nobody will accept what's supposed to pass as "blended learning" because it was a disaster on most fronts.

How else would they 'not be there' teachers will not be working from home in September?

ASTI are saying their members won't be there, they have all but skipped the ballot and you can see where this will go.

Thank you for the clarification. Now we know the talk of strike action is in your head.

History Queen

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

"However, in response to a question from People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny about what a classroom with 30 students, two SNAs and a teacher would look like in September, Mr Christie said it would look empty, because ASTI members would not be there under the current advice".

Now if the union is saying they aren't going to be there that means they will be striking because after a six month closure nobody will accept what's supposed to pass as "blended learning" because it was a disaster on most fronts.

How else would they 'not be there' teachers will not be working from home in September?

No that's a union saying their members will be complying with public health advice. That's not striking. The Department won't have a leg to stand on as employers have a duty of care under Health and Safety legislation to a safe place of work.

Gino Kemmy was unaware that the advice would not allow the scenario he asked about. That's why he asked the question.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

downthemiddle wrote: »

Thank you for the clarification. Now we know the talk of strike action is in your head.

In Kieran Christies head too by the looks of it!

r93kaey5p2izun

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

In Kieran Christies head too by the looks of it!

Can you link, or at least state the interview he said this? I'd like to hear his view on strike action.

History Queen

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

In Kieran Christies head too by the looks of it!

No. You're wrong about that.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

In Kieran Christies head too by the looks of it!

Stop digging!!

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

"However, in response to a question from People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny about what a classroom with 30 students, two SNAs and a teacher would look like in September, Mr Christie said it would look empty, because ASTI members would not be there under the current advice".

Well he answered the question he was asked and he was correct. Under the current advice only 15 childrenat most could be in the class and there would not be room for 2 SNAs and a teacher with social distancing of 2 m or 1m. Not his fault the TD asked the question incorrectly.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

History Queen wrote: »

No that's a union saying their members will be complying with public health advice. That's not striking. The Department won't have a leg to stand on as employers have a duty of care under Health and Safety legislation to a safe place of work.

Gino Kemmy was unaware that the advice would not allow the scenario he asked about. That's why he asked the question.

The class would look empty, because ASTI members would not be there under the current advice.

So is he wrong to say that the class would be empty under current advice?

Or is he saying that his members will not be allowed to go in under union advice?

Because to me it sounds like he's saying that ASTI members will not be there and for that to happen it would need to be under strike action.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

Well he answered the question he was asked and he was correct. Under the current advice only 15 childrenat most could be in the class and there would not be room for 2 SNAs and a teacher with social distancing of 2 m or 1m. Not his fault the TD asked the question incorrectly.

So not empty then?

Is 15 a published figure in the guidelines?

downthemiddle

Children are taught in school that mistakes are opportunities for learning. It is a pity some parents cannot admit when they are wrong and learn from the experience.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So not empty then?

Is 15 a published figure in the guidelines?

No 15 isnt a published number, I just split the class in half for handinees sake , for some schools based on guidelines it would be 8 pupils other classes 9 or 10 depending on the size of the classroom.

juneg

I think everyone is frustrated about schools in September because we can see it isn't going to work. We see this ,we know this and we are frustrated that we can't do anything about this.

Everyone wants to get back. The teachers ,the kids ,the parents ,the unions, the politicians . But we know we can't cope with the way this particular virus spreads in close contact situations . We can see its going to be a s***show and that makes us very angry and frustrated . Because there's nothing meaningful we can do about it.

Sure ,we can implement one way on corridors. Staggered yard times. No PE equipment . Bring your own flask. Eat in the class. Wipes for the bathrooms, spray milton, hand Sanitizer everywhere. Anyone can come up with those ideas. That's the low hanging fruit. That'll keep us going for the first few weeks.

What we can't cope with is that the first case of covid will close the school. Then the parents can't go to work. Then the teachers are back doing elearning which we know is not the answer. That's the knock on effect that we can't cope with. That's why we're all frustrated . That's why the department are faffing around because its just not going to work.

I haven't even addressed what would happen if the school stayed open during a covid outbreak because its a complete non runner. Obviously the staff would get sick. Their replacement would get sick. The numbers in the class would dwindle due to illness or parental choice. We would run out of substitute teachers and SNAs.

Schools are an essential service. There's just not enough space, resources,PPE, cleaners, staff to run the schools. To be honest even if we were well resourced to begin with you still can't hide from this particular virus.

That's why the department advice to date is let them all back and we'll see what happens. Its not really about saving people from getting the virus. Its either chance it or watch the economy tank. We're not going to get jam on both sides.

History Queen

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

The class would look empty, because ASTI members would not be there under the current advice.

So is he wrong to say that the class would be empty under current advice?

Or is he saying that his members will not be allowed to go in under union advice?

Because to me it sounds like he's saying that ASTI members will not be there and for that to happen it would need to be under strike action.

I just explained to you why it wouldn't be under strike action it would be covered by Health and Safety legislation.

Regardless of what it sounds like to you, you are incorrect.

Moot point anyway as it won't come to that. I don't think the government and the Department will actually contravene public health advice especially where there are children involved.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

No 15 isnt a published number, I just split the class in half for handinees sake , for some schools based on guidelines it would be 8 pupils other classes 9 or 10 depending on the size of the classroom.

So the class would not be empty, so was he incorrect in what he said?

Figure of 15 is a rough guesstimate (pupil numbers and physical class sizes vary widely).

And yet its the TD who is wrong for the way he phrased the question!

khalessi

s

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So the class would not be empty, so was he incorrect in what he said?

Figure of 15 is a rough guesstimate (pupil numbers and physical class sizes vary widely).

And yet its the TD who is wrong for the way he phrased the question!

No he was correct, she asked question wrong.

If there was a class of 30 and 2 SNAs and 1 teacher under current guidelines was what you said she asked, and he replied correctly as you couldnt have that many in a room under current guideline she didnt ask him to explain further, her mistake. Its a court thing.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

History Queen wrote: »

I just explained to you why it wouldn't be under strike action it would be covered by Health and Safety legislation.

So how would that work, would they be paid health and safety benefit in that case instead of their normal wages?

I thought that was only for pregnant women and new mothers. Is there a similar payment if your union deems the workplace as unsafe?

History Queen

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So how would that work, would they be paid health and safety benefit in that case instead of their normal wages?

I thought that was only for pregnant women and new mothers. Is there a similar payment if your union deems the workplace as unsafe?

No idea what the story with pay would be.

mcsean2163

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

https://curriculumonline.ie/Home/

Fwiw, it was a daily class schedule with lessons on an iPad. All the kids were supplied with iPads, with the lessons in a daily clickable schedule, e.g
English lesson was a purple color etc. My mind was blown.

Look, appreciate I was in a bit of a rant and wasn't offering constructive criticism. It's funny one, I guess teachers are still a sacred cow in society or to me at least and I guess I felt a bit betrayed.

Good luck to all and hopefully the next term will be better.

deiseindublin

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

In Kieran Christies head too by the looks of it!

and she mind reads too......................

wirelessdude01

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Fwiw, it was a daily class schedule with lessons on an iPad. All the kids were supplied with iPads, with the lessons in a daily clickable schedule, e.g
English lesson was a purple color etc. My mind was blown.

Look, appreciate I was in a bit of a rant and wasn't offering constructive criticism. It's funny one, I guess teachers are still a sacred cow in society or to me at least and I guess I felt a bit betrayed.

Good luck to all and hopefully the next term will be better.

See the issue with alot of the 'blended' learning is the lack of adequate resources. Actual devices and reliable broadband can cause issues even for the most diligent of teachers.
We all just want to be back in the classroom come the start of the new school year. Can't stress enough though that our dept needs to be proactive. Schools are crying out to be told what everyone has to do and then can decide a plan that works at a local level but there does have to be a coherent and consistent strategy given to us so that there is an even approach from every school.

BonsaiKitten

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Fwiw, it was a daily class schedule with lessons on an iPad. All the kids were supplied with iPads, with the lessons in a daily clickable schedule, e.g
English lesson was a purple color etc. My mind was blown.

Look, appreciate I was in a bit of a rant and wasn't offering constructive criticism. It's funny one, I guess teachers are still a sacred cow in society or to me at least and I guess I felt a bit betrayed.

Good luck to all and hopefully the next term will be better.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113928819&postcount=4779

I guess I’ll take the above as an apology for...what was it again? Profiteering, entitled, disgusting, insinuations of being lazy? As you can clearly see in the linked post, I was doing the same as this wonderful Chicago school.

I completely agree with all saying remote learning isn’t the best - of course it isn’t, of course it’s better to be back in the classroom. To go back to work though we have to know what to do. Can’t just wing it and hope for the best (even if that is what the Dept seem to like to do!).

ldy4mxonucwsq6

deiseindublin wrote: »

and she mind reads too......................

How witty there's very little to read with some.

jrosen

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

I know their conditions are worse I am taking about the attitude of the people there. In my view they have more respect for education and teachers in general. I think maybe the fact they also pay so much for college themselves they appreciate it more. In my view.

The huge difference with Ireland and the US when it comes to teaching and education is their open door policy. They very much work with the parents and are available to the parents either by phone or email every single day before class and after. They are often contracted 8am - 5pm. So any parent at any time who has a concern or issue can contact the teacher.
The US also has feck all employment protection so dont do your job and your out on your ear. Bad teachers dont stand a chance in any school with an engaged faculty and parent body.

But their system is as flawed also.

khalessi

jrosen wrote: »

The huge difference with Ireland and the US when it comes to teaching and education is their open door policy. They very much work with the parents and are available to the parents either by phone or email every single day before class and after. They are often contracted 8am - 5pm. So any parent at any time who has a concern or issue can contact the teacher.
The US also has feck all employment protection so dont do your job and your out on your ear. Bad teachers dont stand a chance in any school with an engaged faculty and parent body.

But their system is as flawed also.

Yeah it is flawed, but I think the contact thing is school to school here. Parents or grandparents in my school come into classes to help teach topics, give talks, help out for events and pretty much have contact with teachers as they wish except before school as trying to get them into class. It is like that in a lot of schools these days, not all though.

jrosen

khalessi wrote: »

Yeah it is flawed, but I think the contact thing is school to school here. Parents or grandparents in my school come into classes to help teach topics, give talks, help out for events and pretty much have contact with teachers as they wish except before school as trying to get them into class. It is like that in a lot of schools these days, not all though.

If only your school represented all.

iamwhoiam

jrosen wrote: »

If only your school represented all.

Our local school is simular . Grandparents are asked to come and read stories and we have a lovely grandparents day every year .
Parents and Grandparents give talks on their hobbies or on experiences etc

During lockdown the teacher sent work sheets and asked the kids to send pictures of plants they found etc
They had an online book shelf to choose readers from and all in all the teacher did her utmost to encourage and support the children through a tough time

Her willingness to adapt was admirable and needs to be mentioned
Many teachers did the same I am sure

jrosen

Its great to see some people have positive experiences. Unfortunately for other children and families they cant say the same.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

How witty there's very little to read with some.

Your most accurate post!!!

Cyrus

juneg wrote: »

I think everyone is frustrated about schools in September because we can see it isn't going to work. We see this ,we know this and we are frustrated that we can't do anything about this.

Everyone wants to get back. The teachers ,the kids ,the parents ,the unions, the politicians . But we know we can't cope with the way this particular virus spreads in close contact situations . We can see its going to be a s***show and that makes us very angry and frustrated . Because there's nothing meaningful we can do about it.

Sure ,we can implement one way on corridors. Staggered yard times. No PE equipment . Bring your own flask. Eat in the class. Wipes for the bathrooms, spray milton, hand Sanitizer everywhere. Anyone can come up with those ideas. That's the low hanging fruit. That'll keep us going for the first few weeks.

What we can't cope with is that the first case of covid will close the school. Then the parents can't go to work. Then the teachers are back doing elearning which we know is not the answer. That's the knock on effect that we can't cope with. That's why we're all frustrated . That's why the department are faffing around because its just not going to work.

I haven't even addressed what would happen if the school stayed open during a covid outbreak because its a complete non runner. Obviously the staff would get sick. Their replacement would get sick. The numbers in the class would dwindle due to illness or parental choice. We would run out of substitute teachers and SNAs.

Schools are an essential service. There's just not enough space, resources,PPE, cleaners, staff to run the schools. To be honest even if we were well resourced to begin with you still can't hide from this particular virus.

That's why the department advice to date is let them all back and we'll see what happens. Its not really about saving people from getting the virus. Its either chance it or watch the economy tank. We're not going to get jam on both sides.

Luckily most of our peer countries have reopened their schools so we have that experience to inform us as well. The doom you have outlined above has yet to be visited on the Danes for example ?

leoXX

Schools should never have been closed in the first place.