How will schools be able to go back in September?

Rodin · 03-07-2020 02:40PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

And a healthcare professional works every day of the week, do they?

Teachers are not going to work from 8am - 8pm and the Govt aren't stupid enough to implement it unless they want empty classrooms across the country. We already have enough of an exodus to the Middle East for teaching jobs as it is.

They are liable to work any day of the week.
At any time in many cases.

The real issue here is terms and conditions.
Teachers won't change theirs to meet the new reality as many others have had to do.

If teachers are not willing to change their hours/days to make this work then I'm done here.
I knew what the major problem all along was and it's been confirmed. It isn't PPE.
It's the precious working hours and time off.

Rodin · 03-07-2020 02:40PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

And a healthcare professional works every day of the week, do they?

Teachers are not going to work from 8am - 8pm and the Govt aren't stupid enough to implement it unless they want empty classrooms across the country. We already have enough of an exodus to the Middle East for teaching jobs as it is.

Sure that's nothing to do with a tax-free income.

khalessi · 03-07-2020 02:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

8am-8pm are social working hours. Try working in healthcare.

I did for 20 years

You dont bring your work home.

It is a hard job, each job has different pluses and minuses and in all honesty I love nursing but teaching is harder.

History Queen · 03-07-2020 02:41PM

Rodin wrote: »

If there are normally 3 classes in the school, each with a teacher, that's 90 pupils on site at once.

Have 3 shifts where each teacher only teaches their class.
Only 30 pupils on site, massively reducing risk.

Any shortfall in hours may need to be made up elsewhere in the year.
The total number of hours worked would remain the same.

But this leads to part time education which is one of the things we are trying to avoid. It also causes childcare chaos for parents.

History Queen · 03-07-2020 02:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Never said that teachers needed to work every day of the week. Just need to be flexible with which hours they work.

I think been available for whatever hours you currently work over the course of 8am-8pm is reasonable in the current climate.

But I don't think it addreses the issues of childcare and part time education? Surely we should be aiming for full time education in school.

PowerToWait · 03-07-2020 02:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

8am-8pm are social working hours. Try working in healthcare.

That's a huge commitment, 60 hours a week fair play. And only paid for 39 as well, shows you are a true patriot. Probably not earning very much as a pharmacist either.

khalessi · 03-07-2020 02:44PM

Rodin wrote: »

If there are normally 3 classes in the school, each with a teacher, that's 90 pupils on site at once.

Have 3 shifts where each teacher only teaches their class.
Only 30 pupils on site, massively reducing risk.

Any shortfall in hours may need to be made up elsewhere in the year.
The total number of hours worked would remain the same.

That is at one level 3 classes at each level split in two so 45 kids each shift per level in 3 groups of 15 so that means the teachers at that level are teaching their class split in two groups all day. There are no spare teachers.

NOw do that for school with 900 kids

BonsaiKitten · 03-07-2020 02:45PM

Imagine the parents of two kids - one in school from 8-12, another from 4-8. It's worse than useless for them as they still have a child at home to care for and school pressures are now on in late evenings and early mornings. Certainly doesn't enable them to work.

Boggles · 03-07-2020 02:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We are dealing with far worse in the HSE and making it work

8000+ infections?

:pac:

Rodin · 03-07-2020 02:48PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Imagine the parents of two kids - one in school from 8-12, another from 4-8. It's worse than useless for them as they still have a child at home to care for and school pressures are now on in late evenings and early mornings. Certainly doesn't enable them to work.

Childcare would only be happy to have extra work.
Would keep many in employment/business.

I'd have childcare tax deductable to help people work but that's another argument.

I certainly know people where one person swapped to evening work so there was always someone at home rather than both gone during the day.
It's a new reality and new ways of doing things have to happen.

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:00PM

Rodin wrote: »

They are liable to work any day of the week.
At any time in many cases.

The real issue here is terms and conditions.
Teachers won't change theirs to meet the new reality as many others have had to do.

If teachers are not willing to change their hours/days to make this work then I'm done here.
I knew what the major problem all along was and it's been confirmed. It isn't PPE.
It's the precious working hours and time off.

Tell me how your terms and conditions changed for the pandemic.

Speaking to nursing friends, their hours stayed the same as did their pay. If they worked extra they got paid extra and some did. But basic terms and conditions stayed the same. Night duty was still night duty etc. I had friends who had time off booked an dwere told to take it as it was booked and they didnt know how bad it would get.

BonsaiKitten · 03-07-2020 03:02PM

Rodin wrote: »

Childcare would only be happy to have extra work.
Would keep many in employment/business.

I'd have childcare tax deductable to help people work but that's another argument.

I certainly know people where one person swapped to evening work so there was always someone at home rather than both gone during the day.
It's a new reality and new ways of doing things have to happen.

So then what exactly would the point of opening 8-8 be? Presumably the kids will be mixing with other children while in this childcare so you are popping the class bubbles there (and as most classes are linked via siblings, I've limited faith in the bubble approach anyway). I genuinely can't see how it is any more beneficial than working the usual school hours.

Now, I say this as a night owl who would love teaching 12-4 or 4-8. During term time, my live video lessons started in the late morning and it was brilliant. It's not refusing to alter work hours, it's recognising when suggestions aren't going to help the school community.

Rodin · 03-07-2020 03:04PM

khalessi wrote: »

Tell me how your terms and conditions changed for the pandemic.

Speaking to nursing friends, their hours stayed the same as did their pay. If they worked extra they got paid extra and some did. But basic terms and conditions stayed the same. Night duty was still night duty etc. I had friends who had time off booked an dwere told to take it as it was booked and they didnt know how bad it would get.

Ask your nursing friends if any of them got reassigned to ED or ICU without consultation or if they know anyone who did or if anyone swapped to nights from days.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 03-07-2020 03:04PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Imagine the parents of two kids - one in school from 8-12, another from 4-8. It's worse than useless for them as they still have a child at home to care for and school pressures are now on in late evenings and early mornings. Certainly doesn't enable them to work.

It's no different to what people have had to deal with all along since March and at least the kids are getting some sort of education.

If the schools aren't allowing kids back fully then there has to be some flexibility from teachers (and unions).

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:07PM

Rodin wrote: »

Ask your nursing friends if any of them got reassigned to ED or ICU without consultation or if they know anyone who did or if anyone swapped to nights from days.

Ive done that as a nurse and it was mildly inconvenient but is part of the job, you go where needed and when needed. I have been taken off wards at 1am to reopen a closed ward and had to hang curtains and admit patients. So tell me more about your change of terms and conditions, they still start and leave at same time

History Queen · 03-07-2020 03:08PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's no different to what people have had to deal with all along since March and at least the kids are getting some sort of education.

But wouldn't it be less disruptive to open schools full time at normal hours with PPE and health and ssfety protocols? I thought that was what the majority of parents wanted (normal opening hours)? It's certainly what most teachers want.

Rodin · 03-07-2020 03:08PM

khalessi wrote: »

Ive done that as a nurse and it was mildly inconvenient but is part of the job, you go where needed and when needed. I have been taken off wards at 1am to reopen a closed ward and had to hang curtains and admit patients. So tell me more about your change of terms and conditions, they still start and leave at same time

Then why shouldn't teachers be exempt from changes to working hours/practices...

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:09PM

Rodin wrote: »

Then why shouldn't teachers be exempt from changes to working hours/practices...

Sorry the working hours werent changed for nurses and neither are their conditions they were moved ward. SO tell me again changes to term and conditions for nurses

BonsaiKitten · 03-07-2020 03:10PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's no different to what people have had to deal with all along since March and at least the kids are getting some sort of education.

If the schools aren't allowing kids back fully then there has to be some flexibility from teachers (and unions).

Sure but are employers able to be as flexible now as they were in March?

I think schools will allow kids back fully, the Govt seem to be very in favour of it. I doubt that we are heading towards 1 or 2 days a week in school.

pwurple · 03-07-2020 03:13PM

khalessi wrote: »

Give back 20 hours of pay at least I mean ya know why not. Just step up and do what you wrote here teachers should do. Its a sacrifice but like ya know think of the children and its a pandemic. Yada Yada

To say that to anyone in health services who has been wrecking themselves since February is quite disrespectful. I'm not sure why you seem to want a pissing contest with anyone on how hard they work or what hours they do.

I have huge time for teachers, it isn't a job I would have the patience to do, I tried some subbing as a student years ago, when making my own career choices, and found it very difficult No-one could ever say it's an easy job, it's very tiring. But an obvious benefit of the job when choosing it is the limited number of working hours and how family friendly those hours are, at least for all my friends who chose that career.

If you want a highly paid job with a lot of inflexible and antisocial working hours, overtime and bonuses, but without summers, christmas or easter off, then other careers may be more appropriate for you.

Rodin · 03-07-2020 03:15PM

khalessi wrote: »

Sorry the working hours werent changed for nurses and neither are their conditions they were moved ward. SO tell me again changes to term and conditions for nurses

Moving from a medical ward to ED or ICU is absolutely a material change in normal working conditions.

Rodin · 03-07-2020 03:16PM

History Queen wrote: »

But wouldn't it be less disruptive to open schools full time at normal hours with PPE and health and ssfety protocols? I thought that was what the majority of parents wanted (normal opening hours)? It's certainly what most teachers want.

If that can be done then great.
But if not...

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:16PM

pwurple wrote: »

To say that to anyone in health services who has been wrecking themselves since February is quite disrespectful. I'm not sure why you seem to want a pissing contest with anyone on how hard they work or what hours they do.

I have huge time for teachers, it isn't a job I would have the patience to do, I tried some subbing as a student years ago, when making my own career choices, and found it very difficult No-one could ever say it's an easy job, it's very tiring. But an obvious benefit of the job when choosing it is the limited number of working hours and how family friendly those hours are, at least for all my friends who chose that career.

If you want a highly paid job with a lot of inflexible and antisocial working hours, overtime and bonuses, but without summers, christmas or easter off, then other careers may be more appropriate for you.

I worked as a nurse for 20 years so thank you for your kind thoughts and thank you for taking for taking it out of context and ignoring everything that Rodin has written.

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:18PM

Rodin wrote: »

Moving from a medical ward to ED or ICU is absolutely a material change in normal working conditions.

I did it everyday for years. It was not a problem, but I enjoyed it. I still started at the same time and ended at the same time.

Rodin · 03-07-2020 03:20PM

khalessi wrote: »

I did it everyday for years. It was not a problem, but I enjoyed it. I still started at the same time and ended at the same time.

As I said some have moved from days to nights.
That's a material change

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:21PM

Rodin wrote: »

As I said some have moved from days to nights.
That's a material change

Hold on nursing is shift work, always has been. I did a lot of that too

The biggest issue my friends had was fear. They were scared of the virus but knew they had ppe. They also went home stripped inside the door ran to shower and then stuck clothes in washing every night. Some of them slept in separate part of house to family. BUt they still did it and still worked the same hours every week

03-07-2020 03:22PM

khalessi wrote: »

I did it everyday for years. It was not a problem, but I enjoyed it. I still started at the same time and ended at the same time.

There is no way that you would be switched from ED to ICU. There is different training involved. How would an ED nurse know how to support a patient on ECMO?

khalessi · 03-07-2020 03:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no way that you would be switched from ED to ICU. There is different training involved. How would an ED nurse know how to support a patient on ECMO?

I was and enjoyed it and sometimes could be moved a couple of times during a shift and it was in a Dublin hospital maybe I was quick on uptake.

03-07-2020 03:25PM

Why did you decide to change from nursing to teaching by the way? Was it because of the generous hours/time off/pay?

iamwhoiam · 03-07-2020 03:26PM

khalessi wrote: »

I was and enjoyed it and sometimes could be moved a couple of times during a shift and it was in a DUblin hospital maybe I was quick on uptake.

No way where I worked would a nurse be moved to ICU without training and certified to work with ventilated patients .

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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