Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Golf is my Game · 29-06-2020 1:09pm

Well from the man himself its the mental side of things that's holding him back, 'really stupid mistakes', 'decision making was terrible' (which has to raise the caddy question), 'just sort of dumb mistakes'. 'The way I'm feeling right now I feel like I need a couple of weeks off'.

Having played all of 3 weeks in a row after the long break. Jayses. So fair enough, it's not his chipping. It is his head.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 1:31pm

Fred_ wrote: »

Time to look past the comments of lazy commentators and look to the stats for the real story. Mcilroy's short game is underrated.

Let’s hear from the man himself.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/golf/news/12176/12017141/rory-mcilroy-looking-forward-to-a-couple-of-weeks-off-to-ease-his-frustrations

First Up · 29-06-2020 1:33pm

fullstop wrote:

So one hole defines someoneâ€™s performance over the year? Todd took 5 to get down from about 5 yards yesterday, including a shank, but I wouldnâ€™t look at that and just write him off as having a crap short game...you might but each to their own.

Rory doesn't have a crap short game either but a brain fart like that at such a critical stage does challenge a claim that his short game is underrated.

fullstop · 29-06-2020 1:57pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Let’s hear from the man himself.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/golf/news/12176/12017141/rory-mcilroy-looking-forward-to-a-couple-of-weeks-off-to-ease-his-frustrations

Where in that article does he mention his short game?

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 2:03pm

fullstop wrote: »

Where in that article does he mention his short game?

I’m inclined to listen to his opinion over the stats. Stats might tell you his short game was good, but he seems pretty unhappy about how he played. You might disagree with him though.

fullstop · 29-06-2020 2:14pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m inclined to listen to his opinion over the stats. Stats might tell you his short game was good, but he seems pretty unhappy about how he played. You might disagree with him though.

I’ll ask again, where does he mention his short game? He mentions “stupid mistakes”. The post you were replying to was about his short game, so what’s the relevance?

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 3:00pm

fullstop wrote: »

I’ll ask again, where does he mention his short game? He mentions “stupid mistakes”. The post you were replying to was about his short game, so what’s the relevance?

The relevance as relying on stats rather than what the player said. I think it is another poster who is posting about short game analysis. But, from the bits of it I did watch, it seemed that his short game cost him quite a few shots, so was he talking about about his driving in the article?

Fred_ · 29-06-2020 3:47pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The relevance as relying on stats rather than what the player said. I think it is another poster who is posting about short game analysis. But, from the bits of it I did watch, it seemed that his short game cost him quite a few shots, so was he talking about about his driving in the article?

He was fourth in strokes gained around the green for the week:

https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.28237.rory-mcilroy.html/scorecards/r034/2020

My comment about his short game was a meant about his short game in general rather than specifically this week. In either case the stats indicate it's not holding him back.

He's the world number 1. He's had 3 average weeks. Hasn't missed any cuts. I don't see any cause for concern. Just lacking a little mental sharpness after the layoff.

First Up · 29-06-2020 3:57pm

Fred_ wrote:

He's the world number 1. He's had 3 average weeks. Hasn't missed any cuts. I don't see any cause for concern. Just lacking a little mental sharpness after the layoff.

And he is deservedly #1. The numbers don't lie.

It did look like mental errors more than anything over the weekend. 2 or 3 of those cost him dearly.

fullstop · 29-06-2020 4:24pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The relevance as relying on stats rather than what the player said. I think it is another poster who is posting about short game analysis. But, from the bits of it I did watch, it seemed that his short game cost him quite a few shots, so was he talking about about his driving in the article?

What i see noted in the link you posted is that he knocked in a 35 footer on 13 and holed from a green side bunker on 16. He then knocked it in the water out of a fairway bunker on 17, so if that article proves anything (which it doesn’t) it would be that his long game was off.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 5:28pm

fullstop wrote: »

What i see noted in the link you posted is that he knocked in a 35 footer on 13 and holed from a green side bunker on 16. He then knocked it in the water out of a fairway bunker on 17, so if that article proves anything (which it doesn’t) it would be that his long game was off.

Are you disagreeing with Mcilroys assessment of how he played, or with the article just because I posted it? He is giving a pretty frank opinion on his play, despite what the stats might show. I haven’t got into the conversation about chipping stats, to be honest, I look at the final score on the card and how he played, rather than shots gained against the field or stats because they are figures that don’t tell you how or why, whether the fluffs were at important times or blocked momentum, whether they were good shots when the pressure was off and he had nothing to play for etc.

So look, if you have a problem with Mcilroys analysis, or me for posting the article, so be it.

fullstop · 29-06-2020 5:44pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Are you disagreeing with Mcilroys assessment of how he played, or with the article just because I posted it? He is giving a pretty frank opinion on his play, despite what the stats might show. I haven’t got into the conversation about chipping stats, to be honest, I look at the final score on the card and how he played, rather than shots gained against the field or stats because they are figures that don’t tell you how or why, whether the fluffs were at important times or blocked momentum, whether they were good shots when the pressure was off and he had nothing to play for etc.

So look, if you have a problem with Mcilroys analysis, or me for posting the article, so be it.

The post you replied to when you posted that link was “Time to look past the comments of lazy commentators and look to the stats for the real story. Mcilroy's short game is underrated.”. You said “let’s hear from the man himself”, then posted that link.

If you weren’t talking about his short game, why reply to that post so pointedly?!!

Anyway, won’t be engaging with you any more on the point so as not to derail the thread any further.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 5:57pm

fullstop wrote: »

The post you replied to when you posted that link was “Time to look past the comments of lazy commentators and look to the stats for the real story. Mcilroy's short game is underrated.”. You said “let’s hear from the man himself”, then posted that link.

If you weren’t talking about his short game, why reply to that post so pointedly?!!

Anyway, won’t be engaging with you any more on the point so as not to derail the thread any further.

Yes, time to look past the comments of lazy commentators, and listen to McIlroy himself. He said he wasn’t happy and made stupid mistakes, no doubt some of those were in his short game. No big deal, it’s there for you to read, if you feel posting an interview by McIlroy himself is derailing a thread about McIlroy, well okey dokey, not much I can say apart from sorry.

Bubbaclaus · 29-06-2020 6:02pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Yes, time to look past the comments of lazy commentators, and listen to McIlroy himself. He said he wasn’t happy and made stupid mistakes, no doubt some of those were in his short game. No big deal, it’s there for you to read, if you feel posting an interview by McIlroy himself is derailing a thread about McIlroy, well okey dokey, not much I can say apart from sorry.

It was a derailment in the sense that your reply made no sense to the post you were replying to, but you stuck to your guns anyway so fair play to you.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 6:11pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

It was a derailment in the sense that your reply made no sense to the post you were replying to, but you stuck to your guns anyway so fair play to you.

McIlroy was talking about how he played, not how he drove the ball only, maybe he pitched and chipped beautifully and all shots dropped and opportunities missed were off the tee, but that isn’t the case, so, I’m going to go with his analysis over the lazy commentary or stats. But hey if you guys think he is wrong and the shots gained against whatever is the way he should look at it, then maybe he shouldn’t be so down.

Fred_ · 29-06-2020 6:17pm

Dav010 wrote: »

McIlroy was talking about how he played, not how he drove the ball, maybe he pitched and chipped beautifully and all shots dropped and opportunities missed were off the tee, but that isn’t the case, so, I’m going to go with his analysis over the lazy commentary or stats. But hey if you guys think he is wrong and the shots gained against whatever is the way he should look at it, then maybe he shouldn’t be so down.

You're missing the point again. Your point may be valid but it didn't make sense in response to my post.

First Up · 29-06-2020 6:30pm

From what I heard, the gist of his point was that he is making bad decisions - trying to play too many shots that aren't on and paying the price.

That again raises the question of how he uses his caddy. If he is prone to bad decisions, he would benefit from having a caddy who can advise him.

But he would also need to be open to taking that advice.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 6:39pm

Fred_ wrote: »

You're missing the point again. Your point may be valid but it didn't make sense in response to my post.

Fred_, I’m going to be honest, I hate looking up stats because they are figures on a page which tells you little about how or why the player misses a green or a fairway, nor by how much. But fair play to you, you made me sit down at my Mac and look at stats. On a shortish course, of the top 40 players (I stopped looking after 40) only Patrick Cantley at 63.9%, had a lower greens in regulation percentage than Mcilroy’s 66.7%, almost all of those 40 players had GIRs in the high seventies/low eighties. Maybe you think that type of approach play is under rated, but I can understand why he thinks that isn’t good enough. So, I’m inclined to think he was talking in large part about the short game you were complaining about lazy commentary on.

Bubbaclaus · 29-06-2020 6:46pm

Dav010 wrote: »

McIlroy was talking about how he played, not how he drove the ball only, maybe he pitched and chipped beautifully and all shots dropped and opportunities missed were off the tee, but that isn’t the case, so, I’m going to go with his analysis over the lazy commentary or stats. But hey if you guys think he is wrong and the shots gained against whatever is the way he should look at it, then maybe he shouldn’t be so down.

Nobody is saying his analysis is wrong. That would be silly. It is simply irrelevant to the point that was being made which you responded to. Not sure why you aren't getting it, but sure respect for sticking to those guns all the same.

Bubbaclaus · 29-06-2020 6:49pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Fred_, I’m going to be honest, I hate looking up stats because they are figures on a page which tells you little about how or why the player misses a green or a fairway, nor by how much. But fair play to you, you made me sit down at my Mac and look at stats. On a shortish course, of the top 40 players (I stopped looking after 40) only Patrick Cantley at 63.9%, had a lower greens in regulation percentage than Mcilroy’s 66.7%, almost all of those 40 players had GIRs in the high seventies/low eighties. Maybe you think that type of approach play is under rated, but I can understand why he thinks that isn’t good enough. So, I’m inclined to think he was talking in large part about the short game you were complaining about lazy commentary on.

Does this not go completely against your point? Based on that stat it is even clearer that it was his long game that was the issue and his short game saved him to come T11th.

Talk about going against your own position.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 7:03pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Does this not go completely against your point? Based on that stat it is even clearer that it was his long game that was the issue and his short game saved him to come T11th.

Talk about going against your own position.

Just so I’m clear, one of the longest drivers in the game, has one of the lowest GIRs in the top 40, on a shortish course, and it’s his short game that saved him?

His driving accuracy at this tournament was actually above his average as was his distance. So you can’t really blame the long stick.

Here’s another stat, of the top 54 players, only five players had more bogeys.

As I said, I hate looking at Stats, but Fred inspired me, Dear God some of these stats are mind boggling, approaches 50-75yrds(105th), 75-100(112th), 100-125(52nd), 125-150(2nd), scrambling 30yrds( 185th), scrambling 10-20yrds (30th), putts per round (18th), putts per round 3 (77th), putts per round 4 (53rd), putting from 4’ (156th) putts 6’ (198th) putts 7’ (200th) etc.

How on Gods earth could his short game be considered under rated by anyone?

Golf is my Game · 29-06-2020 7:22pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Here’s another stat, of the top 54 players, only five players had more bogeys.

Where does the 54 come from ?

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 7:28pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Where does the 54 come from ?

Stopped at 54th place, there was a load tied after that, actually if you go to 60th place (Emiliano Grillo), the stat doesn’t change.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 7:42pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Nobody is saying his analysis is wrong. That would be silly. It is simply irrelevant to the point that was being made which you responded to. Not sure why you aren't getting it, but sure respect for sticking to those guns all the same.

Bubbaclaus, having looked at Mcilroys stats on the PGATour.com website, something I don’t ever remember doing before, I realise now that you are right. I should not have posted the link to Mcilroys interview, what I should have done was go to Mcilroys performance page on the PGA site and listed a few of the stats there to show how wrong the poster was to say his short game is “under rated”. My bad, I never knew the short game stats were so poor.

Bubbaclaus · 29-06-2020 8:20pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Bubbaclaus, having looked at Mcilroys stats on the PGATour.com website, something I don’t ever remember doing before, I realise now that you are right. I should not have posted the link to Mcilroys interview, what I should have done was go to Mcilroys performance page on the PGA site and listed a few of the stats there to show how wrong the poster was to say his short game is “under rated”. My bad, I never knew the short game stats were so poor.

18th, 19th and 16th in Strokes Gained Around the Green puts him top 20 on tour in the short game consistently over the last 3 years.

Very poor alright.

You also appear to be quoting non short game stats earlier to try and make your point.

Very odd indeed. Then again, you mention you don't know much about stats or care about them so I suppose you are simply confirming that.

fullstop · 29-06-2020 8:42pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

18th, 19th and 16th in Strokes Gained Around the Green puts him top 20 on tour in the short game consistently over the last 3 years.

Very poor alright.

You also appear to be quoting non short game stats earlier to try and make your point.

Very odd indeed. Then again, you mention you don't know much about stats or care about them so I suppose you are simply confirming that.

It’s funny how McIlroy’s thoughts and comments are suddenly very important as well when it suits a narrative, but hey ho.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 8:45pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

18th, 19th and 16th in Strokes Gained Around the Green puts him top 20 on tour in the short game consistently over the last 3 years.

Very poor alright.

You also appear to be quoting non short game stats earlier to try and make your point.

Very odd indeed. Then again, you mention you don't know much about stats or care about them so I suppose you are simply confirming that.

Yip, can’t say I know much about golf stats. To me short game is from pitching wedge in, including putting, a historical definition in golf puts it at less than 100 yards from the green, but given how far pros hit their wedges now, I think anything inside 150yrds is fair. I would appreciate it if you could point to a precise definition of “short game” for pros.

Ah yes, strokes gained, a score based on the field average. A very important stat that I’m sure pros take consolation in when they don’t win.

Edit: just looking through some references to “short game”, virtually all describe it as being from pitching wedge in.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 8:48pm

fullstop wrote: »

It’s funny how McIlroy’s thoughts and comments are suddenly very important as well when it suits a narrative, but hey ho.

A very fair point, but you can’t argue with what he said, or can you?

fullstop · 29-06-2020 8:54pm

Dav010 wrote: »

A very fair point, but you can’t argue with what he said, or can you?

No I can’t argue that he said he made lots of bad decisions and that cost him this week. Don’t think anyone is arguing that point.

Dav010 · 29-06-2020 8:59pm

fullstop wrote: »

No I can’t argue that he said he made lots of bad decisions and that cost him this week. Don’t think anyone is arguing that point.

Why wouldn’t I use it then to suit a narrative then? Fred said it’s lazy commentary to look at anything other than stats for the real story. The stats this week support that his short game wasn’t good but his driving was more accurate and longer than his average. In hindsight, I wouldn’t have posted that link, I would have just posted the tournament stats and overall short game stats to show his short game isn’t under rated. I’ll hold my hand up to that mistake, my apologies.

Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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