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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #4262
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    addaword wrote: »
    Our children are mingling with each other in summer camps and everywhere else, yet our schools will remain closed for five and a half months and will be the last to re-open in Europe.

    Our children deserve better from the education system, given its massive budget.

    Can you point us in the direction of a summer camp that is open for children to mingle?


  • #4263
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    addaword wrote: »
    Our children are mingling with each other in summer camps and everywhere else, yet our schools will remain closed for five and a half months and will be the last to re-open in Europe.

    Funny how summer camps aren't allowed yet....


  • #4264
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Scotland planning on reopening schools without social distancing. Teachers will still social distance amongst themselves and there will be face coverings and routine testing of teachers.

    Children here have been mixing for weeks now and the government and Dept of education are still wringing their hands.

    Despite HSE public health experts saying over a month ago that schools in Ireland are not a high-risk setting for the transmission of coronavirus, and reopening classrooms should be considered as an early measure in lifting restrictions.

    Businesses got their acts together quickly because they had to in order to survive, but it seems the DOE does not have any independent thought or capability to do the same.

    They want someone else to tell them what to do, there is no pressure on them to do anything because it doesn't impact their bottom line nor is anyone giving them any real motivation to do something about it.

    On your last point, I wrote to the Oireachtas department of the minister of education. I received a reply and coincidentally the next day Joe McHugh came out and highlighted what 1m 2m classes would look like.

    I think it's crazy nothing is being done now, in terms of worst case planning but anyway....


  • #4265
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Was there an option to submit work completed?


    If you are unhappy with the school’s engagement, you can take it up with the DES.

    Yes, I scanned in the homework and sent it in. I should have done it more but our printer is not good and I am miserable at this step too. The teacher said well done and not to worry about submitting. In fairness, it was good in that sense as at least I can say stuff about the teacher to encourage our child.

    So let me revise, a weekly blog, email that says great but not to worry if homework not submitted and two zoom classes. Do people here regard that as hard work and good student engagement?

    Again, I really like the teacher and think she's great with children. Maybe technology is not the teachers thing.


  • #4266
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    Yes, I scanned in the homework and sent it in. I should have done it more but our printer is not good and I am miserable at this step too. The teacher said well done and not to worry about submitting. In fairness, it was good in that sense as at least I can say stuff about the teacher to encourage our child.

    So let me revise, a weekly blog, email that says great but not to worry if homework not submitted and two zoom classes. Do people here regard that as hard work and good student engagement?

    Again, I really like the teacher and think she's great with children. Maybe technology is not the teachers thing.

    To be fair , most teachers told children and parents to do what they could . The set up in every home is different . You could have had one laptop and 3 children , parents who were trying to work from home , you could have children who were extremely anxious etc. Children attending extra support had 2 or 3 teachers to work with , so may have been told to prioritize maths from one teacher over another as well.

    But I’m quite gobsmacked with any principal saying that as a physical building was closed , the teacher didn’t have to work .


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  • #4267
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    pwurple wrote: »
    How does someone go about taking it up with the DES? And what would the outcome even be? Hi, here's the last few months back? It's too many cases to even begin to investigate, and even if they did, would have to prioritise special needs for example.

    We were not permitted to have the books at home (the school had them all destroyed. ). One teacher disappeared completely, never heard from her after march lockdown began (3rd class). The principal said she couldn't force her to engage as her place of work was closed. The other teacher was super. Daily class calls, gave them projects to be working on.


    From family members experience in other countries, the segregated classes are awful. The children kept in those 2m apart zones are crying every night, miserable and confused. It's unnatural and I hope they don't attempt it here.

    There's so little of this virus left it should hopefully be a non event in September.

    So a school destroyed books and a principal said that a teacher didn't have to work because the school building wasn't available? Forgive me for not believing that story as it seems very far-fetched!!


  • #4268
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    From the realms of you couldn't make it up.
    At 16.25 today the inspectorate published a document called Guidance on Continuity of Schooling. Exciting times with what must surely be a roadmap for September. Do not get your hopes up. This is the Department of Education after all.
    To quote from the document " It serves to further support schools as they continue to provide for their pupils for the remainder of the school year while pupils learn from home." I'm sure this will prove to be invaluable over the next week!!!
    For those of you happy to blame teachers for schools being closed perhaps this insight will help you understand the sheer level of ineptitude that emanates from the Department.


  • #4269
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    From the realms of you couldn't make it up.
    At 16.25 today the inspectorate published a document called Guidance on Continuity of Schooling. Exciting times with what must surely be a roadmap for September. Do not get your hopes up. This is the Department of Education after all.
    To quote from the document " It serves to further support schools as they continue to provide for their pupils for the remainder of the school year while pupils learn from home." I'm sure this will prove to be invaluable over the next week!!!
    For those of you happy to blame teachers for schools being closed perhaps this insight will help you understand the sheer level of ineptitude that emanates from the Department.

    Thats hilarious I wonder how I will cope until the end of week given that my students graduation was today and watching the video I discovered how much dust I have in my eye. I should have daubed it dry with the document.


  • #4270
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    From the realms of you couldn't make it up.
    At 16.25 today the inspectorate published a document called Guidance on Continuity of Schooling. Exciting times with what must surely be a roadmap for September. Do not get your hopes up. This is the Department of Education after all.
    To quote from the document " It serves to further support schools as they continue to provide for their pupils for the remainder of the school year while pupils learn from home." I'm sure this will prove to be invaluable over the next week!!!
    For those of you happy to blame teachers for schools being closed perhaps this insight will help you understand the sheer level of ineptitude that emanates from the Department.

    Was that not released in April or is it a new version?

    There was a document (of the same title) published on the 2nd of April, 12 weeks ago.


  • #4271
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Was that not released in April or is it a new version?

    No, this is a new standalone publication.


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  • #4272
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Amongst the advice for parents

    Encourage them to have the correct posture while working


  • #4273
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    So a school destroyed books and a principal said that a teacher didn't have to work because the school building wasn't available? Forgive me for not believing that story as it seems very far-fetched!!

    On the books, apparently they took some 'advice' and decided they were a virus risk. I was appalled to be honest, and it doesn't speak well to their ability to teach STEM subjects with that level of scientific understanding. but anyway, that's another story. A lot of poor decisions are made in the name of safety around this virus as far as I can see. The streets are strewn with discarded plastic gloves and masks, apparently for our safety too.

    The teacher subsequently resigned (and was not replaced yet), so I suspect they were unhappy anyway. I don't know were there unions or disciplinary actions, or how long any of those take. From my side, all I saw was zero teacher.


  • #4274
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »

    And what about children with additional needs or underlying health issues? Imagine all the strange things they will have to get used to.

    On this, children with underlying health issues or who are immuno suppressed in some cases have never been better. I know in my own circle of friends, a boy with a severe respiratory condition is the healthiest he has ever been in his life because he isn't picking up his usual coughs and colds from school. They are more used to virus control than I am, because they have had to be for him.

    I would worry far more about the majority getting back to normality, the very ill are already more prepared to cope than people understand.

    This notion about not mixing at playtime etc is not in the children's interests. It's pure tokenism.


  • #4275
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    Taking blood, first dose antibiotics and putting in cannulas isn't just a doctors job. Nurses have been paid to do those jobs as part of the transfer of tasks. Ireland was unusual in that the burden of those jobs used to fall on doctors.
    No it wasnt. Link please?


  • #4276
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    No it wasnt. Link please?
    No it never was. The worst thing they did was make a nurses require a university degree. They are obviously highly educated and able to do many jobs that were only Drs jobs. What they forgot was if you expect nurses to do this, you pay them appropriately. So nurses should eitherf be caring people on low wages. OR highly educated and capable people. If they are the second. You pay them as such or they wont stay in Ireland. Why should they???? And so you see this. Nurses wont stay in Ireland.

    And in relation to Corona, they came back to work to help Ireland, wernt needed and hadnt paid tax in Ireland so were basically unemployed and stuck as they were not able to avail of covid or any benefit. Thats the reality of it. If they are needed in second wave you will be lucky if they help. Hence look after our teachers.


  • #4277
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    No it never was. The worst thing they did was make a nurses require a university degree. They are obviously highly educated and able to do many jobs that were only Drs jobs. What they forgot was if you expect nurses to do this, you pay them appropriately. So nurses should eitherf be caring people on low wages. OR highly educated and capable people. If they are the second. You pay them as such or they wont stay in Ireland. Why should they???? And so you see this. Nurses wont stay in Ireland.

    And in relation to Corona, they came back to work to help Ireland, wernt needed and hadnt paid tax in Ireland so were basically unemployed and stuck as they were not able to avail of covid or any benefit. Thats the reality of it. If they are needed in second wave you will be lucky if they help. Hence look after our teachers.

    Nurses (and other essential workers) were also let down by the massive inadequate gap in childcare during all of this.

    They were completely abandoned in this aspect even though they were the ones taking the biggest risk during the pandemic.

    Even in the UK they made sure that healthcare staff still had childcare and schools were open to their children.


  • #4278
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    No it wasnt. Link please?


    Here is an article on transfer of tasks that has about the payments received. E20 extra a week is what it worked out to.

    https://www.medicalindependent.ie/a-task-and-a-half-untangling-the-transfer-of-tasks/

    Ireland was one if the last places to still have doctor's give first dose antibiotics. This was still happening in Midlands hospitals in 2016, hopefully it has stopped. Phlebotomy and cannulation aren't don't by doctors much in the US and Canada. In the NHS, these jobs are trust and ward dependent. It doesnt make sense to have doctors do cannulas and bloods at 4am when the ratio of nurses to doctors in the hospital is probably between 8 and 10 to 1.


  • #4279
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    No it never was. The worst thing they did was make a nurses require a university degree. They are obviously highly educated and able to do many jobs that were only Drs jobs. What they forgot was if you expect nurses to do this, you pay them appropriately. So nurses should eitherf be caring people on low wages. OR highly educated and capable people. If they are the second. You pay them as such or they wont stay in Ireland. Why should they???? And so you see this. Nurses wont stay in Ireland.

    This is one of the awful opinions that drives me mad. Nursing is a job with high stress and high responsibility. Increasing education is needed as treatment if patients has become more complex. Roles expand and new roles and professions are created.

    The idea that nurses are selfless angelic women who work for doctors belongs 100 years ago if it ever belonged at all.


  • #4280
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,734 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Nurses (and other essential workers) were also let down by the massive inadequate gap in childcare during all of this.

    They were completely abandoned in this aspect even though they were the ones taking the biggest risk during the pandemic.

    Even in the UK they made sure that healthcare staff still had childcare and schools were open to their children.

    It's funny the way in people are quick to go on a rant about primary and secondary teachers not providing childcare.... But when it's creches it's the government who are to blame!


  • #4281
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Treppen wrote: »
    It's funny the way in people are quick to go on a rant about primary and secondary teachers not providing childcare.... But when it's creches it's the government who are to blame!

    I didn't go on a rant about primary and secondary school teachers providing childcare, didn't once mention teachers so why the automatic defensive stance?

    It's clear as day it was the goverment who let the ball drop there (not all children are creche age either). Some nurses have struggled to turn up to work and do their jobs under the circumstances having to take leave and privately source childcare during a time where it wasn't technically permitted.

    They should have been looked after better, it benefits us all.


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  • #4282
    gifted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭gifted


    What happens if they get rid of social distancing and restrict the time to be in another persons company to 10 minutes?


  • #4283
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Joe Mchugh saying he doesn't see significant PPE requirements being needed for schools but ongoing engagement happening daily to draft up the necessary guidelines for schools.

    He has also confirmed that additional resources will be provided to schools to enable enhanced cleaning/hand sanitisers etc.

    So once the social distancing is dropped then it looks like it will be extra cleaning, good hygeine, and minimal PPE for teachers (and maybe vulnerable pupils).

    Along with enhanced sick policies (maybe temperature checks too) and schools taking measures locally to eliminate large assemblies of students, minimise contact where unnecessary in common areas corridors/yards etc I don't think there will be much else to make up the guidelines.


  • #4284
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Joe Mchugh saying he doesn't see significant PPE requirements being needed for schools but ongoing engagement happening daily to draft up the necessary guidelines for schools.

    He has also confirmed that additional resources will be provided to schools to enable enhanced cleaning/hand sanitisers etc.

    So once the social distancing is dropped then it's will be more or less extra cleaning, good hygeine, and minimal PPE for teachers (and maybe vulnerable pupils).

    Along with enhanced sick policies (maybe temperature checks too) and schools taking measures locally to eliminate large assemblies of students, minimise contact where unnecessary in common areas corridors/yards etc I don't think there will be much else to make up the guidelines.
    Are you a revisionist historian. That would be great to teach your kids. Teach them how we wernt victims


  • #4285
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Well so far we will be working in bubbles. Each class is its own bubble and the teachers stay at their own level. Staffroom might remain closed for the moment. Staff meeting done via zoom no large gatherings. In the yard the children stick to their own bubble and demarcated area on yard. The only one to move between bubbles will be SET who will be in multiple bubbles. SET groups cant be mixed each group from their own bubble. Gonna be interesting times.

    In another school they are placing desks at the back with perspex surround should vunerable children wish to come to school wearing masks.


  • #4286
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    Are you a revisionist historian. That would be great to teach your kids. Teach them how we are exactly the same we arnt victims
    Theres so much you can change with your kids and it would be so primary. History ichanging.


  • #4287
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    Are you a revisionist historian. That would be great to teach your kids. Teach them how we wernt victims

    I actually have no clue what you mean :confused::confused::confused:


  • #4288
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    khalessi wrote: »
    Well so far we will be working in bubbles. Each class is its own bubble and the teachers stay at their own level. Staffroom might remain closed for the moment. Staff meeting done via zoom no large gatherings. In the yard the children stick to their own bubble and demarcated area on yard. The only one to move between bubbles will be SET who will be in multiple bubbles. SET groups cant be mixed each group from their own bubble. Gonna be interesting times.

    In another school they are placing desks at the back with perspex surround should vunerable children wish to come to school wearing masks.

    Thanks for the information . Can I ask what teachers stay at their own level means please ?


  • #4289
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I actually have no clue what you mean :confused::confused::confused:

    Me neither


  • #4290
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Thanks for the information . Can I ask what teachers stay at their own level means please ?

    There is more than one class at each class level, so 2 or more 5th classes for example. So the teachers can interact with other teachers at that level. The only teacher to move between levels is Support.

    Along with that will be hygiene and extra cleaning and other measures we see fit.


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  • #4291
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    khalessi wrote: »
    There is more than one class at each class level, so 2 or more 5th classes for example. So the teachers can interact with other teachers at that level. The only teacher to move between levels is Support.

    Along with that will be hygiene and extra cleaning and other measures we see fit.
    Ah thank you that makes sense


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