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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

12467…51

Comments

  • #152
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    appledrop wrote: »
    Its not commuters we only go at weekends. Similarly the worse traffic jams at moment are at the weekend.the easy option is blame the commuters but its not as easy as that.


    I think some people here are in denial at how many people across the country want to enjoy the park + need a car to get there.

    I think some people are in denial as to what happens to a park when everyone who wants to visit it parks in it.


  • #153
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stark wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/archives/flashback-the-pedestrianisation-of-grafton-street-began-45-years-ago-today-35022278.html

    That's one slippery slope you have there. Careful you don't injure yourself.

    Lol. But I have have an example. Has been done in other cities.


  • #154
    appledrop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭appledrop


    polesheep wrote: »
    I think some people are in denial as to what happens to a park when everyone who wants to visit it parks in it.


    Maybe you should pay a visit to zoo car park + see the amount of families that park their + all stuff they need/ bring with them to visit the zoo ,while also maybe having 3 kids in tow.


    But sure its grand they can get about 3 different types of public transport especially if live outside Dublin+ good long walk once in park to actually get to zoo.


  • #155
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    I think some people are in denial as to what happens to a park when everyone who wants to visit it parks in it.

    I think people know very well that some would love to restrict the park to suit themselves and regardless of others who might be using the park. That is a very obvious agenda.

    But why not try it for 12 months. Anyone who hasn't used it during the lock down has got used to it by now.


  • #156
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    You want a Luas stop from every direction, or are you going to be realistic?

    What did I say that wasn't realistic.


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  • #157
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    Almost all your suggestions are worse for the park. They either require lots more driving and parking in it, removing green space seems a hobby horse, even though no one else is suggesting this.. and restricting the number of people who can access the park.

    They should try it all for a year. It's love to see the results.

    Can you please show me where I made these suggestions?


  • #158
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    appledrop wrote: »
    Maybe you should pay a visit to zoo car park + see the amount of families that park their + all stuff they need/ bring with them to visit the zoo ,while also maybe having 3 kids in tow.


    But sure its grand they can get about 3 different types of public transport especially if live outside Dublin+ good long walk once in park to actually get to zoo.

    As a child I was brought to the Zoo many times... by bus. I loved every minute of it, including the bus journey.


  • #159
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stark wrote: »
    Zoo car park is quite big. Are you sure it's only Zoo users who are using it? It's quite close to the Parkgate street end so wouldn't be surprised if there were commuters using it.

    Sure there are. But since the problem also exists out side of working hours. It's only a part of a larger problem.


  • #160
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,356 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I think people are referring to my posts.

    I have petitioned the local TDs at either side of the Park and the various authorities to revert the traffic setup to the pre-Covid arrangement as soon as possible and I've received positive and agreeable soundings in that regard.

    The current arguments around retaining what has been installed recently hold no water. Public transport and shared bicycles are going to be restricted for a very long time and the Phoenix Park is national amenity, not to mind all of Dublin. Limiting it through over zealous and ill considered measures to those within walking and cycling distance is unacceptable.

    And I don't want to hear any more suggestions of parking outside it. Apart from the off-putting pay and display in streets on the City side, why should the residents of Castleknock, Chapelizod, Navan Road etc have to put up with wholly unnecessary imposition on their own quite limited residential parking.


  • #161
    appledrop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I think people are referring to my posts.

    I have petitioned the local TDs at either side of the Park and the various authorities to revert the traffic setup to the pre-Covid arrangement as soon as possible and I've received positive and agreeable soundings in that regard.

    The current arguments around retaining what has been installed recently hold no water. Public transport and shared bicycles are going to be restricted for a very long time and the Phoenix Park is national amenity, not to mind all of Dublin. Limiting it through over zealous and ill considered measures to those within walking and cycling distance is unacceptable.

    And I don't want to hear any more suggestions of parking outside it. Apart from the off-putting pay and display in streets on the City side, why should the residents of Castleknock, Chapelizod, Navan Road etc have to put up with wholly unnecessary imposition on their own quite limited residential parking.




    Well said I agree with you 100% The way some people are going on here you would think they own park because they live near it. Its one of biggest parks in Europe. Not reasonable to expect everyone going to it to use public transport or bikes.


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  • #162
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Talk of getting rid of the new cycle lane on Chesterfield avenue is madness.
    It's 4km of high quality, wide and straight cycling lane.
    At a time when DCC are looking to increase bike journeys in the city by 300%.


  • #163
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,304 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    appledrop wrote: »
    Well said I agree with you 100% The way some people are going on here you would think they own park because they live near it. Its one of biggest parks in Europe. Not reasonable to expect everyone going to it to use public transport or bikes.

    If you go to any of the major public parks in Paris, you see many opportunities for parking. People are encouraged to go to parks, not like here, where some people want to preserve the Phoenix Park like a museum piece, only visited by those in walking distance.


  • #164
    appledrop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭appledrop


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Talk of getting rid of the new cycle lane on Chesterfield avenue is madness.
    It's 4km of high quality, wide and straight cycling lane.
    At a time when DCC are looking to increase bike journeys in the city by 300%.

    Come on now its not a proper cycle lane. Its a space on side of road blocked off by cones. I wouldn't actually have problem with the cycle lane if they replaced the parking the park has lost nearby so it could be used by everyone else that doesn't live down the road from the park.


  • #165
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Talk of getting rid of the new cycle lane on Chesterfield avenue is madness.
    It's 4km of high quality, wide and straight cycling lane.
    At a time when DCC are looking to increase bike journeys in the city by 300%.

    And this is the impasse. There is no compromise on either side. Just hyperbole.


  • #166
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Talk of getting rid of the new cycle lane on Chesterfield avenue is madness.
    It's 4km of high quality, wide and straight cycling lane.
    At a time when DCC are looking to increase bike journeys in the city by 300%.

    Sounds like a great idea to me! Sooner rather than later please.


  • #167
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    appledrop wrote: »
    Come on now its not a proper cycle lane. Its a space on side of road blocked off by cones. I wouldn't actually have problem with the cycle lane if they replaced the parking the park has lost nearby so it could be used by everyone else that doesn't live down the road from the park.

    What is a proper cycle lane. Usually it's a bit of paint.


  • #168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Chesterfield Ave is a much safer place for everyone now the parking is gone.


  • #169
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,356 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Chesterfield Ave is a much safer place for everyone now the parking is gone.

    Was it unsafe before? I would argue that it wasn't. Yes, I would improve pedestrian crossing points near the big attractions, but overall there wasn't a demonstrable problem.

    Incidentally, the OPW seemingly made no change to the Parks bye-laws to introduce these cycle lanes, which is probably Ok as an emergency measure, but my reading of the law around it is that they MUST revert to the situation that pertained before, then advertise changes to the bye-laws for public consultation before putting something in permanently.


  • #170
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Chesterfield Ave is a much safer place for everyone now the parking is gone.

    It was much safer when all the people were gone also.


  • #171
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just watched 2 people park up outside Garda HQ & head off walking to town.
    Commuters.


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  • #172
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Just watched 2 people park up outside Garda HQ & head off walking to town.
    Commuters.

    Did you follow them? I think that’s called stalking...

    Seriously they could be going anywhere, even if it is town so what and NONE of your business


  • #173
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Why don't you ring Garda HQ or the Park Ranger. One of them will be deciding if that's ok or not.


  • #174
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Wasn't there some issue before where civilians working in Garda HQ weren't allowed to park in it. So they all parked out side or something. There was some issue or dispute anyways.


  • #175
    maxsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭maxsmum


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Chesterfield Ave is a much safer place for everyone now the parking is gone.

    I agree, I travel through the park daily and little kids jumping out from cars to go to the zoo or whatever is a serious hazard, unloading them onto the main road like that. Using the city's park as a car park is also aesthetically crappy. It is so lovely since Covid came in, although I appreciate there are city workers who commute who will be put out, but I am 100% in agreement that it should be left the way it is, as a park and not a car park.


  • #176
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Was it unsafe before? I would argue that it wasn't. Yes, I would improve pedestrian crossing points near the big attractions, but overall there wasn't a demonstrable problem.

    There was an obvious problem. Some people drive too fast, some didn't like to see others use it and abuse or try punish them, and the avenue essentially split the park in two, it was a right PITA to cross from one side to the other as a family, more so at the sections that have heavy parking on both sides. Do it near the zoo and you're at the mercy of someone slowing and stopping for you.

    Litter the avenue with raised pedestrian crossings every couple of 100 metres would be a start.

    It's madness to think that a car has priority over anyone else throughout the park, there's practically no pedestrians crossings. What's it, 1, 2 even?

    The attitude in the post above, quoted below, is demonstrable to that. It should certainly not be viewed as a main road and everything that goes with that.
    maxsmum wrote: »
    I agree, I travel through the park daily and little kids jumping out from cars to go to the zoo or whatever is a serious hazard, unloading them onto the main road like that.


  • #177
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,153 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    maxsmum wrote: »
    I agree, I travel through the park daily and little kids jumping out from cars to go to the zoo or whatever is a serious hazard, unloading them onto the main road like that. Using the city's park as a car park is also aesthetically crappy. It is so lovely since Covid came in, although I appreciate there are city workers who commute who will be put out, but I am 100% in agreement that it should be left the way it is, as a park and not a car park.

    Then we need somewhere to park so we can use the beauitful park .Not everyone lives within walking distance and it is there for us all to enjoy


  • #178
    maxsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭maxsmum


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Then we need somewhere to park so we can use the beauitful park .Not everyone lives within walking distance and it is there for us all to enjoy

    Absolutely, the car parks off the main road are there for that and maybe they could be extended and landscaped nicely, I would add with nice public toilets and baby changing facilities ideally, but Chesterfield Avenue definitely should not be a car park.


  • #179
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Hurrache wrote: »
    There was an obvious problem. Some people drive too fast, some didn't like to see others use it and abuse or try punish them,

    This ^^

    I don't have a huge issue with people being able to drive to the Park, park there and enjoy it. I do have an issue with the people who feel entitled to drive in the Park as if it was a motorway and get aggressive with people who are shock horror using it as a recreational facility.


  • #180
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The irony is most of this conversation started by cyclists (usually commuters) going flat out at dangerous speeds complaining about cars and pedestrians in their way.

    Hence their whole agenda is about the Ave and ignores the rest of the park.


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  • #181
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    :rolleyes:


  • #182
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Then we need somewhere to park so we can use the beauitful park .Not everyone lives within walking distance and it is there for us all to enjoy

    But if you create parking for everyone then there will be less and less beautiful park for all to enjoy. It is a city park, there are limits to how much access we can give to cars in our growing (population) city. If some people have to drive to the park then we should be looking at why we do not have more parks.


  • #183
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Loads of parks near me and Dublin in general. Phoenix park one of very few that does not have parking at the entrance or around it. That requires you to drive into the middle of it to park.

    You want to keep that illogical design. When it's been the cause of arguments for decades.

    It's like a bucket with a tiny hole to fill it and to empty it. People complain it's always full and takes ages to empty it. But won't change how they use it, or the design of it. Because some mad old grandparent made it.


  • #184
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Motors weren't really a factor back when the park was 'man made'.

    Where they could use for parking though is where they currently have gigs (don't get me started on that) and use overflow parking for events on in the visitor centre, at the Ashtown gate.


  • #185
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Motors weren't really a factor back when the park was 'man made'. ....

    They had a car racing in it 100 yrs ago and frequently changed it since.

    People like to say people are looking to concrete over the whole thing. When all people are looking to it change improve how it works. Improve it as a park.


  • #186
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Doesn't matter if they had F1 in it last year, it wasn't 'built' with cars in mind.


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  • #187
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Doesn't matter if they had F1 in it last year, it wasn't 'built' with cars in mind.

    Pre dates bicycles yet people want changes for bicycles.

    There's double standards being applied here. If a change suits a certain agenda then conservation is ignored.


  • #188
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    Did you follow them? I think that’s called stalking...

    Seriously they could be going anywhere, even if it is town so what and NONE of your business

    This is a discussion about the Phoenix park, cars driving & parking in it.
    People have made the point, me included, that plenty of cars parked there belong to commuters, who use it as a big free car park.
    There are people on here complaining that there isn't enough parking for users, there is. The problem is people parking there that are not using the park.
    so, you see very much the business of all park users I would think.


  • #189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Why don't you ring Garda HQ or the Park Ranger. One of them will be deciding if that's ok or not.

    What do you mean ok? do you mean legal?
    Trust me,I am well aware that it is legal. But isn't that one of the points we are discussing here? all day parking by commuters should be stopped & then there would be more than enough parking for actual users of the park.


  • #190
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I mean the opw complains about parking and commuters but then encourages it by doing nothing about it.


  • #191
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    This is a discussion about the Phoenix park, cars driving & parking in it.
    People have made the point, me included, that plenty of cars parked there belong to commuters, who use it as a big free car park.
    There are people on here complaining that there isn't enough parking for users, there is. The problem is people parking there that are not using the park.
    so, you see very much the business of all park users I would think.

    Ban all commuters then. Including cyclists.

    Then there's no conflict between cyclists and pedestrians either.


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  • #192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Surely just make it paid parking. That would disincentivise the commuters and shoppers, who use it as a parking lot. Maybe free for an hour or two and then jack up the prices


  • #193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Ban all commuters then. Including cyclists.

    Then there's no conflict between cyclists and pedestrians either.

    You must find things difficult to understand......
    I have no problem with commuters using the park for commuting, I just don't think they should use it as a big free carpark for the city....

    I think people that park in the Phoenix Park should be either working in th epark, or visiting the park itself.


  • #194
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Surely just make it paid parking. That would disincentivise the commuters and shoppers, who use it as a parking lot. Maybe free for an hour or two and then jack up the prices

    Seems to be beyond them.

    Fines for parking on the grass etc.


  • #195
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You must find things difficult to understand......
    I have no problem with commuters using the park for commuting, I just don't think they should use it as a big free carpark for the city....

    I think people that park in the Phoenix Park should be either working in th epark, or visiting the park itself.

    Compromise. Put paid parking in the park. Max €5 for max 5 hours. Gets rid of those working in town but not too expensive for leisure users.


  • #196
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You must find things difficult to understand......
    I have no problem with commuters using the park for commuting, I just don't think they should use it as a big free carpark for the city....

    I think people that park in the Phoenix Park should be either working in th epark, or visiting the park itself.

    Likewise you must be struggling with the title of the thread. Parking AND Traffic in the Park.

    You're pet subject is obviously people using it as park and ride. (Though you don't know if they have parked and just going to get a coffee in the shop, before going back to work, I say that because we see them walking back with stuff like coffees from that shop) But it overlaps with people parking and using the park, and also commuters, cyclists and whole load of things.

    But if people don't want to treat them as inter-related fine lets do blank bans and be ignorant of the nuances of it all. But do it to everyone. Seems fair.


  • #197
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Likewise you must be struggling with the title of the thread. Parking AND Traffic in the Park.

    You're pet subject is obviously people using it as park and ride. (Though you don't know if they have parked and just going to get a coffee in the shop, before going back to work, I say that because we see them walking back with stuff like coffees from that shop) But it overlaps with people parking and using the park, and also commuters, cyclists and whole load of things.

    But if people don't want to treat them as inter-related fine lets do blank bans and be ignorant of the nuances of it all. But do it to everyone. Seems fair.

    From what shop?
    I watch people everyday, this morning at 6.45am included, parking their cars & heading into town. And I can assure you that I do know that the 2 this morning parked outside Garda HQ for the day, as their cars were still parked there half an hour ago.

    Do what to everyone? You want more car parks put into the Phoenix park, when there are enough parking space for everyone using the park. The trick is to just allow parking for patrons of the park.

    I don't see any issues with persons driving through the park, or cyclists or pedestrians.


  • #198
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    From what shop?
    I watch people everyday, this morning at 6.45am included, parking their cars & heading into town. And I can assure you that I do know that the 2 this morning parked outside Garda HQ for the day, as their cars were still parked there half an hour ago.

    If they were working in the HQ or the Zoo or similar, you'd expect them to be there all day.

    I've always assumed the majority were staff. Indeed someone else on one of these forums said they park on the Ave for work in the park, as they don't have allocated parking.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/civilian-staff-in-cars-are-refused-entry-to-garda-hq-1.169413
    bubblypop wrote: »
    Do what to everyone? You want more car parks put into the Phoenix park, when there are enough parking space for everyone using the park. The trick is to just allow parking for patrons of the park.
    .

    No I wanted better use of parking. Also you can keep saying there is enough parking but that doesn't make it true. Considering the problems outside of work hours which are well known.

    But don't let facts get in the way of the dogma.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    I don't see any issues with persons driving through the park, or cyclists or pedestrians.

    You don't see what you don't want to see. There's a ton of video, photographic and media evidence to prove there are issues. You don't have to accept anyones opinion on it.


  • #199
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    If they were working in the HQ or the Zoo or similar, you'd expect them to be there all day.

    I've always assumed the majority were staff. Indeed someone else on one of these forums said they park on the Ave for work in the park, as they don't have allocated parking.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/civilian-staff-in-cars-are-refused-entry-to-garda-hq-1.169413



    No I wanted better use of parking. Also you can keep saying there is enough parking but that doesn't make it true. Considering the problems outside of work hours which are well known.

    But don't let facts get in the way of the dogma.



    You don't see what you don't want to see. There's a ton of video, photographic and media evidence to prove there are issues. You don't have to accept anyones opinion on it.

    I know if someone works in the depot, also zoo staff have enough parking inside the zoo.
    Like i said, no issue with people parking in the park if they are working in or visiting the park. That is fair enough.
    Its the people parking there and going elsewhere that's the problem.

    Better use of parking? what does that mean exactly? tow cars parked on grass? yes, I agree. Force those lazy drivers to an actual car park instead of on the grass.


    what issues are there regarding cyclists & pedestrians in the park?


  • #200
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If you don't know by now, nothing I say can explain it to you.

    In pretty sure any article or video will be, ignored, taken out of context, or "I know a guy".


  • #201
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Have an entrance fee for the park, for pedestrians, cyclists and cars.

    Let people vote with their wallet of they want to be there.


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