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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #3722
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Well, it looks like Simon Harris for Education. Worst case scenario I think.


  • #3723
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Seriously!!!


  • #3724
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »
    Well, it looks like Simon Harris for Education. Worst case scenario I think.

    Where you getting that?


  • #3725
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    I do think individual schools do need to come up with what works for their school but there also needs to be guidelines that apply across the board stipulated by the department. There is no one size fits all but the excuse bus needs to stop and people need to start making decisions. As I said pages back, every other industry is working away proactively to try and come back as best they can. Its mind blowing that the department of education cant get their **** together.


  • #3726
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    jrosen wrote: »
    I do think individual schools do need to come up with what works for their school but there also needs to be guidelines that apply across the board stipulated by the department. There is no one size fits all but the excuse bus needs to stop and people need to start making decisions. As I said pages back, every other industry is working away proactively to try and come back as best they can. Its mind blowing that the department of education cant get their **** together.

    That's bureaucracy for ya, drives teachers mad too. The palavar associated with even trying to get sanitizer. Teachers want to go back and we realise we need to plan and we have ideas but they cant be rolled out until the guidelines are issued. It is highly frustrating that those guidelines were promised last week and instead we got aspirations and bespoke solutions.

    We have been told there is no money but it is under discussion. Dept of Ed are a huge disappointment and any anger should be pointed in that direction. The only thing the Dept did last week was to throw the issue back at teachers.

    They want july provision but have not provided guidelines, despite the present social distancing requireents, and will be saying it cant go ahead as there were not teachers to carry it out. Instead they have issued no guidelines and basically have set it up to fail.


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  • #3727
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Where you getting that?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1272416952946954241


  • #3728
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,475 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »
    Well, it looks like Simon Harris for Education. Worst case scenario I think.

    Ahhh fcuk.

    Ah well, he looks about leaving cert age anyhow, maybe he's going back to finish his exams.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • #3729
    cazzer22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭cazzer22


    Scoondal wrote: »
    Most other EU countries already have students back in class. But Ireland is different because, but but this and that (oh and the teachers are on full salary for two hours work per day).

    Two hours work per day? I'm actually doing the same hours I would normally do, so don't know where you're getting that figure out of thin air from.


  • #3730
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    cazzer22 wrote: »
    Two hours work per day? I'm actually doing the same hours I would normally do, so don't know where you're getting that figure out of thin air from.

    I think they mean thats what parents have experienced from some teachers (including myself) and I think 2 hours is being generous in those cases.

    I would hope it doesn't take a teacher 30 hours to compose one email a week which is all that some parents have been getting. I get one myself every Friday night from one of my kids teachers, that's the extent of online learning here.

    I did say some so it's only fair to recognise that there are teachers working very hard right now but others have not and it spoils it for the ones who really put the effort in.

    I also emailed the principal over two weeks ago about something unrelated to at home learning or covid and just got radio silence.


  • #3731
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    If Irish teachers have their way we will be the only country in Europe if not the world not reopening schools in September, August in many cases .

    Irish teachers would do anything to get out of going to work , when people clapped in the evenings for front line workers they most certainly weren’t clapping for the lazy selfish teachers at home sunning themselves .


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  • #3732
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Irish teachers would do anything to get out of going to work , when people clapped in the evenings for front line workers they most certainly weren’t clapping for the lazy selfish teachers at home sunning themselves .

    Do you want a clap for your lazy and predictable comment?


  • #3733
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    If Irish teachers have their way we will be the only country in Europe if not the world not reopening schools in September, August in many cases .

    Irish teachers would do anything to get out of going to work , when people clapped in the evenings for front line workers they most certainly weren’t clapping for the lazy selfish teachers at home sunning themselves .

    Ya you're dead right that's exactly what we want... oh and a payrise too! Sound.


  • #3734
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    History Queen wrote: »
    Ya you're dead right that's exactly what we want... oh and a payrise too! Sound.

    Can I get pay parity/restoration before I get the payrise? Pretty please. Being an LPT isn't all that much fun!!


  • #3735
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    If Irish teachers have their way we will be the only country in Europe if not the world not reopening schools in September, August in many cases .

    Irish teachers would do anything to get out of going to work , when people clapped in the evenings for front line workers they most certainly weren’t clapping for the lazy selfish teachers at home sunning themselves .

    I really wish you would come out with something profound instead of this drivel


  • #3736
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Can I get pay parity/restoration before I get the payrise? Pretty please. Being an LPT isn't all that much fun!!

    I know the feeling!


  • #3737
    irishproduce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    Seems from reading the contributions from many on this thread, in the know, that the school system is underfunded and oversubscribed to the extent that we are not comparing apples with apples when comparing ourselves to what is going on in europe. (25 children per class against EU average of 20).
    The government need to up expenditure on the education system to include more spaces and more teachers. They should be doing this regardless of covid it seems.
    But now it's more pertinent because parents are anxious and unable to double job as teacher and employee.
    It is going to have wider implications, not least on the rights of children to be educated to a given standard.


  • #3738
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    average_runner wrote: »
    Fair enough.
    From a parent I cant see it working for the kids.
    My two will start their homework at 9 each day and be done by 1030. There is no point in the teacher doing anymore, as they dont want to.
    They miss their school friends but are keeping their teachers for another year which is good.

    The kids are playing on the road these days, sport with social distancing in july, but then matches in August.

    So the best teachers can hope for is masks on the teachers and no social distancing. Putting masks on the kids will do more harm than good

    Does this apply to everyone in the workforce then? No social distancing required for any job or just teachers?


  • #3739
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Dublingirl80 wrote:
    Does this apply to everyone in the workforce then? No social distancing required for any job or just teachers?

    Many healthcare staff have had to work under these conditions, it would just be impossible for them not to.

    I work in the food processing industry and I can tell you it is not practical to social distance a lot of the time, many people don't adhere to it anyway unfortunately. We have had to work throughout this crisis, when the chance of infection was way higher than the low numbers we are at now.

    Do you think people working in them meat plants were with large outbreaks were able to social distance?

    There may be signs and barriers up in these places and they may claim to adhere to guidelines but it is just impossible in reality to do it all the time.


  • #3740
    Lucky Lou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Lucky Lou


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Many healthcare staff have had to work under these conditions, it would just be impossible for them not to.

    I work in the food processing industry and I can tell you it is not practical to social distance a lot of the time, many people don't adhere to it anyway unfortunately. We have had to work throughout this crisis, when the chance of infection was way higher than the low numbers we are at now.

    Do you think people working in them meat plants were with large outbreaks were able to social distance?

    There may be signs and barriers up in these places and they may claim to adhere to guidelines but it is just impossible in reality to do it all the time.

    Just playing devils advocate.
    In your job do you have to wipe snotty noses, have children sneeze/cough on your hand while you tick their work, help them change themselves after an accident, deal with irate parents that spit on your face they are so close and so angry?
    Maybe a child that needs restraining and may bite you?
    I think you like the teachers need to have choice wether or not you accept these conditions.


  • #3741
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,656 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    If Irish teachers have their way we will be the only country in Europe if not the world not reopening schools in September, August in many cases .

    Irish teachers would do anything to get out of going to work , when people clapped in the evenings for front line workers they most certainly weren’t clapping for the lazy selfish teachers at home sunning themselves .

    Mod: I'm finding it hard to think you're not trolling here at this stage. Quit it with the "all teachers are selfish/lazy rhetoric.


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  • #3742
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Many healthcare staff have had to work under these conditions, it would just be impossible for them not to.

    I work in the food processing industry and I can tell you it is not practical to social distance a lot of the time, many people don't adhere to it anyway unfortunately. We have had to work throughout this crisis, when the chance of infection was way higher than the low numbers we are at now.

    Do you think people working in them meat plants were with large outbreaks were able to social distance?

    There may be signs and barriers up in these places and they may claim to adhere to guidelines but it is just impossible in reality to do it all the time.

    Meat plants have been the cause of many clusters so not too sure I would be holding them up as an example to be followed. If the same conditions led to the same problem in schools it would be probably hundreds of thousands of cases. As far as your job, you work with adults, you have the right to object to or complain about unsafe conditions. Your baseline job doesn't require the rules to be automatically broken. Put it this way, yes people may end up passing closer than 2m in every job. Do people spend 6 hours in a room not spaced 2 m apart daily? No, and if they did they would have been breaking regulations. What irritates me is that every medical service has been altered to provide for social distancing, protective gear etc. And it's for the benefit of everyone for this not to spread. But at the end of the day, if teachers and snas are asked to unsafe conditions which is different to every other job, they will object and they will not work in those conditions. Even reduced staffing will make the whole sector collapse and I think people don't realise jsut how hard it is to keep the whole sector going with the numbers involved ans shortages of subs etc as is.


  • #3743
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I think they mean thats what parents have experienced from some teachers (including myself) and I think 2 hours is being generous in those cases.

    I would hope it doesn't take a teacher 30 hours to compose one email a week which is all that some parents have been getting. I get one myself every Friday night from one of my kids teachers, that's the extent of online learning here.

    I did say some so it's only fair to recognise that there are teachers working very hard right now but others have not and it spoils it for the ones who really put the effort in.

    I also emailed the principal over two weeks ago about something unrelated to at home learning or covid and just got radio silence.

    Fwiw, we get a blog at the start of the week. That's it.

    There's been 2 zoom meetings with the class since lockdown.

    Appreciate it isn't what teachers signed up for but if it continues like this next year🀯


  • #3744
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Lucky Lou wrote:
    Just playing devils advocate. In your job do you have to wipe snotty noses, have children sneeze/cough on your hand while you tick their work, help them change themselves after an accident, deal with irate parents that spit on your face they are so close and so angry? Maybe a child that needs restraining and may bite you? I think you like the teachers need to have choice wether or not you accept these conditions.

    Firstly if any parent spits in a teachers face especially now with Covid-19 they should be arrested.
    I've never seen or heard of that happening in my children's school, is it something you come across often?

    If a child has any snivel. Or cough they should. Not be going to school right now, that would seem pretty obvious.

    Yes I accept the risks where I work, personally at my age I think there is very little risk to me. But I would be concerned about picking it up and passing it to someone more vulnerable.


  • #3745
    Lucky Lou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Lucky Lou


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Firstly if any parent spits in a teachers face especially now with Covid-19 they should be arrested.
    I've never seen or heard of that happening in my children's school, is it something you come across often?

    If a child has any snivel. Or cough they should. Not be going to school right now, that would seem pretty obvious.

    Yes I accept the risks where I work, personally at my age I think there is very little risk to me. But I would be concerned about picking it up and passing it to someone more vulnerable.

    To answer your first q yes it is something I have come across albeit accidental. And it will become an offence I am sure.
    A child that is sick should not be in school but I have seen children with coughs/colds/temps/vomitting/you name it with a call me if they dont improve.
    And your third point I have elderly parents and a health compromised child but I should just suck it up.


  • #3746
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Firstly if any parent spits in a teachers face especially now with Covid-19 they should be arrested.
    I've never seen or heard of that happening in my children's school, is it something you come across often?

    If a child has any snivel. Or cough they should. Not be going to school right now, that would seem pretty obvious.

    Yes I accept the risks where I work, personally at my age I think there is very little risk to me. But I would be concerned about picking it up and passing it to someone more vulnerable.

    You really would be surprised how many things happen that as a parent of a kid in school you just wouldn't hear about.


  • #3747
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Dublingirl80 wrote:
    Meat plants have been the cause of many clusters so not too sure I would be holding them up as an example to be followed. If the same conditions led to the same problem in schools it would be probably hundreds of thousands of cases. As far as your job, you work with adults, you have the right to object to or complain about unsafe conditions. Your baseline job doesn't require the rules to be automatically broken. Put it this way, yes people may end up passing closer than 2m in every job. Do people spend 6 hours in a room not spaced 2 m apart daily? No, and if they did they would have been breaking regulations. What irritates me is that every medical service has been altered to provide for social distancing, protective gear etc. And it's for the benefit of everyone for this not to spread. But at the end of the day, if teachers and snas are asked to unsafe conditions which is different to every other job, they will object and they will not work in those conditions. Even reduced staffing will make the whole sector collapse and I think people don't realise jsut how hard it is to keep the whole sector going with the numbers involved ans shortages of subs etc as is.


    I don't work in unsafe conditions at my age and health there is as much chance of me being killed in a car crash than from covid 19.
    My main concern has always been catching it and passing it to someone more vulnerable.

    There was a much higher chance of spread of infection at the peak of this crisis, and if every person stopped working in the food production industry where there is minimal social distancing as to the nature of the job then most of the supermarket shelves would have been empty right around when panic buying took off.


  • #3748
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    I don't work in unsafe conditions at my age and health there is as much chance of me being killed in a car crash than from covid 19.
    My main concern has always been catching it and passing it to someone more vulnerable.

    There was a much higher chance of spread of infection at the peak of this crisis, and if every person stopped working in the food production industry where there is minimal social distancing as to the nature of the job then most of the supermarket shelves would have been empty right around when panic buying took I

    In my view two wrongs don't make a right. Realistically it is currently up to each person to keep thoa distance whether they like it or not. I would say most of us would rather be done with it but we are told it is essential. I'm personally sick of it all , as is everyone. To be honest my point of view is wait this out till closer to the time. Plans should be made though and as schools will be a huge portion of the population, it is going to be hugely significant to how this all progresses. It is in everyone's interest to have it be safe. As a parent. As a grandparent. As an sna. As a teacher. Or as a member of the public who interacts with all of the above, if this thing spreads exponentially, we all suffer, our icus overcrowd and we lose all the progress we made. We didnt all stay at home for months to start turning each other into scapegoats and bad guys. Of course everyone is afraid. Every parent, child, staff member etc. And why? We were told to be and we were told to keep 2m distance. This is not something any of us wanted.


  • #3749
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Lucky Lou wrote:
    To answer your first q yes it is something I have come across albeit accidental. And it will become an offence I am sure. A child that is sick should not be in school but I have seen children with coughs/colds/temps/vomitting/you name it with a call me if they dont improve. And your third point I have elderly parents and a health compromised child but I should just suck it up.

    Do you live with them parents? If so I can see how that is a worry for you.

    I have elderly parents and I have been helping get there shopping every week, I drop it off have to stand away from them. , I know there is a risk I could have picked it up at work and may pass it on to them.

    Look I said a good few pages earlier that there is not going to be a magic answer to this and there are circumstances of vulnerable teachers and students that need to be protected.
    But children need there education and we need to find a way to get them back to school. I have 4 children and 1 that requires extra help at school, they can't keep missing school until a vaccination may one day be found and made available.


  • #3750
    Lucky Lou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Lucky Lou


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Do you live with them parents? If so I can see how that is a worry for you.

    I have elderly parents and I have been helping get there shopping every week, I drop it off have to stand away from them. , I know there is a risk I could have picked it up at work and may pass it on to them.

    Look I said a good few pages earlier that there is not going to be a magic answer to this and there are circumstances of vulnerable teachers and students that need to be protected.
    But children need there education and we need to find a way to get them back to school. I have 4 children and 1 that requires extra help at school, they can't keep missing school until a vaccination may one day be found and made available.

    Firemansam I dont live with them thankfully but I have to deal with their wrath.
    There is no magic answer I agree but there has to be a way to return safely to education. I dont agree with waiting til a vaccination but I think for everybodys sake slow and steady. Trial and error.


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  • #3751
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Personally I think it's time to reduce guidelines to 1 meter anyway, I think the rate in the community is low enough now. For many other businesses it is essential to them.

    If there is signs of a large second wave, then maybe it can be brought back again.

    Just hope something workable can be sorted out to get children back to school as soon as we can, I just think this is going to have more of a detrimental effect on them the longer they have to stay away.

    Anyway I'm out for now....


This discussion has been closed.
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