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The USA
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ShatterAlan wrote: »They do historical memorials better than anyone else on the planet? Really? What like having kids come up to some wall with names on it in Washington and say "all these people died so you would be "free" ". Crap like that. Nice revisionist history there. Do they mention that Vietnam never lifted a finger to hurt an American but had their country incinerated and 2 million of their people murdered. Same goes for Laos and Cambodia.
They have these feel good monuments relating to Valley Forge and Little Big Horn and all completely whitewashed to blot out the real truth and horrors and crimes that went with those campaigns.
And Vegas is the "best place on earth"? Are you serious?
You'd hold that cesspit of tackiness over Vienna or Budapest or Isfahan or Damascus (before it was trashed by American paid scumbags)?
A mecca for sex workers, gluttons, alcoholics and gambling addicts is your idea of the "best place on Earth"?
Whoa!
Washington DC is pretty impressive in relation to memorials, museums, historical buildings, etc. And it’s basically free to people. You could spend weeks wandering the Smithsonian and still not see everything. What did you specifically dislike about the city?
And Las Vegas is a fantastic place too. Some people might think it’s the best place on Earth, I can see why. Others might not like it, I can understand that too.0 -
To refer to a whole country as a kip is a sweeping statement. Living here happily for nearly 6 years now and also had a stint in NY for a couple of years moons ago as well as being back and forth on hols numerous times and having the whole Irish family clan here!
Even after all this time I still dont understand it all but am absorbing every day. So I would say you need to live here for a few years at least to get a good understanding of the minutiae of life here. Holidays dont count IMO. For me what stands out, like anywhere really, are the people. The vast majority are very friendly, helpful and extremely polite. Easiest place to strike up a conversation I've been to.
Have been to about a third of the states here and what is important to acknowledge is that it is like going to 50 separate countries. Each having their own individual government and no two state governments are identical.
Someone mentioned the price of beer being high. It is if you dont know where to go. My favourite bar in Manhattan serves $3 beers. Also the subway in NYC is better than the equivalent in london. One price for all journeys, more room and runs 24 hours.
While the natives do comprehend the almost unnavigable problems here they wont be slow in telling you that people still want to come.
It may be a ****show (a great term I picked up here early) but it is never boring!
Lastly nobody who is smart here supports the clown in charge.0 -
Kermit.de.frog wrote: »Yeah but it's easy to poke a country with actual responsibilities in the world from a country like Ireland which, eh, doesn't.
We can hide and be on the side of the angels on everything.
Ironic we only have that luxury due to the protection the US extends over the western world. Would they ever get credit from certain people in Ireland? Of course not.
Where are all the criticisms from Irish people of Russian, and Chinese human rights abuses? Silence is deafening.
That's irrelevant.
No other country on the globe stands up and puffs out their chest and says "We're the best there ever was and ever will be!"
What kind of mature talk is that? Blustering and bloviating like a fcuking child whose mother gives him more money than the neighbourhood kids to buy sweets.
And what's this "protection" crap you talk of? What the hell is that drivel about? Protection from what, exactly? Zombies from Siberia, the barbarian horde from Oceania?
What, how and from whom does America protect ANYONE? I'd LOVE to hear your answer.
The US destroys free societies GLOBALLY and installs profitable puppet regimes that crush the locals. Check out Guatamala, Iran, Chile, Colombia, Honduras, Egypt, Indonesia, The Phillipines, Haiti, El Salvador, Greece, Brazil....etc.
Freedom....give me a break.
If the US ceased to exist tomorrow or at least if it pulled it's dick back into its jeans, shut down its global network of military bases that are used to threaten countries that might have the audacity to develop their own financial model rather than trading in dollars with a gun in their mouths, if America actually fcuked of and spent some time fixing their own wreck of a crumbling empire then all of a sudden your right to free speech would evaporate and you'd be eating fish head soup in the Gulag Archipelago or breaking rocks to bolster the 3 Gorge Dam?
What the F are you actually talking about with this cloak of "freedom" that is provided by the US?0 -
ShatterAlan wrote: »
What the F are you actually talking about with this cloak of "freedom" that is provided by the US?
The type China is taking away right now from Hong Kong.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/hong-kong-crisis-china-support-police-warns-us-interfere-trumpOn Friday, Chinese state media lauded the decision in the National People’s Congress. An editorial from the Xinhua news agency said: “Safeguarding national security means safeguarding the ‘one country, two systems’.”
The editorial, defending China’s right to institute the law, warned all anti-China forces in Hong Kong to “immediately stop illegal and criminal acts” that endanger national security. “Do not continue misjudging the situation and never underestimate the Chinese government and the will of the Chinese people.”
The People’s Daily called the NPC approval of the plan the “resolute expression of 1.4 billion Chinese people”. “It sends a strong signal … to anti-China forces in Hong Kong desperately fighting like a cornered wild beast: your defeat has already been decided.”
Where are Rich Boy Barrett and Claire Daly and the rest of them?
Why aren't they down at the Chinese embassy in protest?
The world is not a nice place and but for the USA it would be a far worse place. Who else is capable of standing up for us democracies in the world in relation to despot regimes?
No one.
You can deny it all you like. It's true.0 -
Kermit.de.frog wrote: »Yeah but it's easy to poke a country with actual responsibilities in the world from a country like Ireland which, eh, doesn't.
We can hide and be on the side of the angels on everything.
Ironic we only have that luxury due to the protection the US extends over the western world. Would they ever get credit from certain people in Ireland? Of course not.
Where are all the criticisms from Irish people of Russian, and Chinese human rights abuses? Silence is deafening.
What "responsibilities" does America have in the world?
What exactly? The world would fall to pieces if America wasn't holding it all together? What are you talking about?0 -
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ShatterAlan wrote: »That's irrelevant.
No other country on the globe stands up and puffs out their chest and says "We're the best there ever was and ever will be!"
What kind of mature talk is that? Blustering and bloviating like a fcuking child whose mother gives him more money than the neighbourhood kids to buy sweets.
And what's this "protection" crap you talk of? What the hell is that drivel about? Protection from what, exactly? Zombies from Siberia, the barbarian horde from Oceania?
What, how and from whom does America protect ANYONE? I'd LOVE to hear your answer.
The US destroys free societies GLOBALLY and installs profitable puppet regimes that crush the locals. Check out Guatamala, Iran, Chile, Colombia, Honduras, Egypt, Indonesia, The Phillipines, Haiti, El Salvador, Greece, Brazil....etc.
Freedom....give me a break.
If the US ceased to exist tomorrow or at least if it pulled it's dick back into its jeans, shut down its global network of military bases that are used to threaten countries that might have the audacity to develop their own financial model rather than trading in dollars with a gun in their mouths, if America actually fcuked of and spent some time fixing their own wreck of a crumbling empire then all of a sudden your right to free speech would evaporate and you'd be eating fish head soup in the Gulag Archipelago or breaking rocks to bolster the 3 Gorge Dam?
What the F are you actually talking about with this cloak of "freedom" that is provided by the US?
Well if it hadn't provided a counterbalance for most of the second half of last century then the Soviets would have ****ed over the rest of Europe..0 -
ShatterAlan wrote: »What kind of mature talk is that? Blustering and bloviating like a fcuking child whose mother gives him more money than the neighbourhood kids to buy sweets.
I’m new on here but I have to say your description here is the first impression I get of you.
No offence intended but you probably need to put down the phone, go outside, and experience the real world.0 -
Experience_day wrote: »Well if it hadn't provided a counterbalance for most of the second half of last century then the Soviets would have ****ed over the rest of Europe..
Really? It's worth considering that both Europe and the US placed itself in opposition to the Soviet Union, surrounding it's borders with military bases & airfields with nuclear capabilities. The fight of capitalism/democracy against Communism.
It wasn't a one sided affair.
And as for the US protecting Europe.. it did so by keeping NATO weak, ensuring that European nations would have to rely on them for aid. Does that really sound like protecting us all? I suppose it does to some.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Really? It's worth considering that both Europe and the US placed itself in opposition to the Soviet Union, surrounding it's borders with military bases & airfields with nuclear capabilities. The fight of capitalism/democracy against Communism.
It wasn't a one sided affair.
And as for the US protecting Europe.. it did so by keeping NATO weak, ensuring that European nations would have to rely on them for aid. Does that really sound like protecting us all? I suppose it does to some.
It all depends on which media sources you choose to believe, I for one love America as a holiday destination, they know how to do it but it doesn't take much travel outside the the glitz and glamour to see the real America which is much less idyllic.
During the 80's and 90's they were fantastic at marketing.0 -
Kermit.de.frog wrote: »It's also the country that has achieved more for mankind than any other.
It's also vast geographically, beautiful and built up on a bigger scale than anywhere else.
People sometimes mention the lack of people with passports in the US but the reality is they don't need them. You can have a perfectly fulfilling life while never leaving the borders of the US.
What you see on the news is also a large distortion of the country, most of it is perfectly fine with great people.
Could you qualify this statement or at least elaborate thereupon?
Just a summary would be fine.0 -
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If you bothered to actually read my post and digest the context of it, you would see I’m saying it’s the greatest country to visit. Wonderfully diverse cities and States, like I also explicitly pointed out.
Fair enough....It's the "greatest" country you've ever been to in your life.
Can you expand on that?
Greatest .....how?0 -
I see. You’re one of them - a dimwit.
I should have realised from your first reply.
It always comes down to this.
Someone criticises the sacred America and lo-and-behold they are scum who would not have the chance to open their mouths were it not for the Marines.
If you are interested in some fact, stubborn things as they are, then these are they
America has
Killed more innocent people in the history of mankind in search of local and global dominance for the mega-rich.
Also:
Destroyed any semblence of protection to humans.
Legalised torture.
Legalised assassination.
Legalised kidnapping, abduction and extra-judicial, drum-head courts martial.
Violated pre and post, international treaties that are the supreme law of the land. (Check your constitution)
Illegally withdrawn from treaties and had the audacity to blame the remaining adherents as those in breach.
Do you really want to go on talking about wanker-America.? Everyone on Earth hates them....except for a few twits who think Nicki Minaj is fcuking the best thing since learning to read.0 -
ShatterAlan wrote: »Fair enough....It's the "greatest" country you've ever been to in your life.
Can you expand on that?
Greatest .....how?
It’s the most diverse place I’ve ever been in my life. Like one resident said above, it’s like 50 individual, different countries. Even cities within States have different characters and cultures. One constant is that the people everywhere are welcoming and polite. (Much more polite than the average Irish person)
We read about the race issues here in Ireland everyday but the reality on the ground in most cities is that people of all races live, drink, talk, work, etc together. I’m not denying that racial inequalities exist just the idea that whites, blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Asians, etc hate each other. They don’t.
If your interested in history, Washington DC is an amazing city. The museums (Smithsonian) are free, you can visit the White House, Congress, Supreme Court, etc - all free. The memorials capture all aspects of American history. Alluding to the Vietnam memorial the way you did was disingenuous. It’s specifically designed to represent a scar in the ground highlighting the divisiveness of the war.
San Diego is beautiful - one of the most beautiful cities I’ve ever been. Las Vegas is crazy but fantastic. Nashville and Memphis are unbelievable cities - a couple of hours apart, different, but amazing. If you walk down Bourban Street in New Orleans, you will never forget the atmosphere. People from everywhere on the planet partying and enjoying themselves.
I could go on but you probably understand my opinion better now.0 -
ShatterAlan wrote: »It always comes down to this.
Someone criticises the sacred America and lo-and-behold they are scum who would not have the chance to open their mouths were it not for the Marines.
If you are interested in some fact, stubborn things as they are, then these are they
America has
Killed more innocent people in the history of mankind in search of local and global dominance for the mega-rich.
Also:
Destroyed any semblence of protection to humans.
Legalised torture.
Legalised assassination.
Legalised kidnapping, abduction and extra-judicial, drum-head courts martial.
Violated pre and post, international treaties that are the supreme law of the land. (Check your constitution)
Illegally withdrawn from treaties and had the audacity to blame the remaining adherents as those in breach.
Do you really want to go on talking about wanker-America.? Everyone on Earth hates them....except for a few twits who think Nicki Minaj is fcuking the best thing since learning to read.
I was out of order for calling you a dimwit. I take that back and apologise.
And, the comment wasn’t directed at your opinion of the US. That’s your opinion which are are entitled to hold. It was directed at you deliberately misrepresenting my post.0 -
It’s the most diverse place I’ve ever been in my life. Like one resident said above, it’s like 50 individual, different countries. Even cities within States have different characters and cultures. One constant is that the people everywhere are welcoming and polite. (Much more polite than the average Irish person)
We read about the race issues here in Ireland everyday but the reality on the ground in most cities is that people of all races live, drink, talk, work, etc together. I’m not denying that racial inequalities exist just the idea that whites, blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Asians, etc hate each other. They don’t.
If your interested in history, Washington DC is an amazing city. The museums (Smithsonian) are free, you can visit the White House, Congress, Supreme Court, etc - all free. The memorials capture all aspects of American history. Alluding to the Vietnam memorial the way you did was disingenuous. It’s specifically designed to represent a scar in the ground highlighting the divisiveness of the war.
San Diego is beautiful - one of the most beautiful cities I’ve ever been. Las Vegas is crazy but fantastic. Nashville and Memphis are unbelievable cities - a couple of hours apart, different, but amazing. If you walk down Bourban Street in New Orleans, you will never forget the atmosphere. People from everywhere on the planet partying and enjoying themselves.
I could go on but you probably understand my opinion better now.
Just wait until the riots in the US right now escalate into a Syria like civil war and everything that you have described be destroyed. If the US was ever a great country, whatever that country was is long gone now.0 -
Washington DC is pretty impressive in relation to memorials, museums, historical buildings, etc. And it’s basically free to people. You could spend weeks wandering the Smithsonian and still not see everything. What did you specifically dislike about the city?
And Las Vegas is a fantastic place too. Some people might think it’s the best place on Earth, I can see why. Others might not like it, I can understand that too.
You just said that the Americans "do" historical memorials better than the rest of the world.
How about how the Russians remembered the hell of Stalingrad that crushed the scourge of Nazism forever.
https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10/soviet-war-memorial-at-mamayev-kurgan.html
This is a nation that has suffered and America weeps about 50,000 suckers who were sent to kill "gooks" over the course of 10 years....yet they call the French a bunch of pussies who lost 100,000 in 6 weeks during the Battle of france in 1941.
Americans are just annoying loudmouths who make me sick.0 -
Experience_day wrote: »Well if it hadn't provided a counterbalance for most of the second half of last century then the Soviets would have ****ed over the rest of Europe..
And that all ended 30 years ago and the US has changed so significantly since then that it is a completely different country from the US of the 1970s and 1980s.
If Trump were to be the US president back then he would be more interested in asking the Soviet Union to help interfere in the next US elections to keep him president and defeat the Democrats at all costs.0 -
Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »Just wait until the riots in the US right now escalate into a Syria like civil war and everything that you have described be destroyed. If the US was ever a great country, whatever that country was is long gone now.
I might be wrong but I don’t see that happening. The people who go marching around with weapons strapped onto themselves or the people who come out and burn/destroy property at night are in the extreme minority. They waffle about civil war but they are also the same people who wouldn’t have the stomach for a real civil war. They’d be wrapped up at home hiding.0 -
ShatterAlan wrote: »You just said that the Americans "do" historical memorials better than the rest of the world.
How about how the Russians remembered the hell of Stalingrad that crushed the scourge of Nazism forever.
https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10/soviet-war-memorial-at-mamayev-kurgan.html
This is a nation that has suffered and America weeps about 50,000 suckers who were sent to kill "gooks" over the course of 10 years....yet they call the French a bunch of pussies who lost 100,000 in 6 weeks during the Battle of france in 1941.
Americans are just annoying loudmouths who make me sick.
I never said Americans do historical memorials better than the rest of the world. I did say Washington DC is pretty impressive when it comes to museums, historical buildings, memorials, etc.
You were the one who brought Washington into the thread too. You’ve never addressed why you didn’t seem to like the city memorials, museums, though.0 -
ShatterAlan wrote: »You just said that the Americans "do" historical memorials better than the rest of the world.
How about how the Russians remembered the hell of Stalingrad that crushed the scourge of Nazism forever.
https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10/soviet-war-memorial-at-mamayev-kurgan.html
This is a nation that has suffered and America weeps about 50,000 suckers who were sent to kill "gooks" over the course of 10 years....yet they call the French a bunch of pussies who lost 100,000 in 6 weeks during the Battle of france in 1941.
Americans are just annoying loudmouths who make me sick.
By the way, there’s a WW2 memorial in Washington DC too. Right in the centre of the mall. Designed to represent the Atlantic and Pacific theatres. It’s an amazing memorial.0 -
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Kermit.de.frog wrote: »The type China is taking away right now from Hong Kong.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/hong-kong-crisis-china-support-police-warns-us-interfere-trump
Where are Rich Boy Barrett and Claire Daly and the rest of them?
Why aren't they down at the Chinese embassy in protest?
The world is not a nice place and but for the USA it would be a far worse place. Who else is capable of standing up for us democracies in the world in relation to despot regimes?
No one.
You can deny it all you like. It's true.
But the USA have killed millions of people in even the last 20 years.
How many countries have any other country attacked for no reason other than for profits and killed millions?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Wow, I hadn't realised the US police were engaging in mass genocide. Wonder how that passed me by. :rolleyes:
I really wish people would stop exaggerating so much that they lessen the horrors in history.
The US police are nothing like the SS, and making such a comparison just shows how ignorant you are.
The SchutzStaffel (SS) weren't either. They were just a vicious fanatical force. A private army outside of the Wehrmacht.
The SS weren't the proponents of genocide any more so than the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe. The SS were, however as a sickening power hungry gang of savages along with the volk-polizei or the NKVD in the Soviet Union.
American police delight in hurting people.
We've seen that, this week.0 -
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ShatterAlan wrote: »The SchutzStaffel (SS) weren't either. They were just a vicious fanatical force. A private army outside of the Wehrmacht.
The SS weren't the proponents of genocide any more so than the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe. The SS were, however as a sickening power hungry gang of savages along with the volk-polizei or the NKVD in the Soviet Union.
American police delight in hurting people.
We've seen that, this week.
We've seen that with Arnaud Arbrey and Breonna Taylor a few weeks ago.
Also the US military has been giving local police military equipment in recent years.0 -
The US is a complicated thing to just describe in one line, but it has huge problems at the moment.
There's a great positive side: It can be fun, friendly, creative and quite community-focused and genuinely very open. It has some handy advantages like being a huge, geographically varied place with a single language and so on.
The downside is it has utterly toxic and dysfunctional politics, very stark divisions in terms of wealth with far less redistribution than you'd see in most western countries and it has, a massive problem with racism and race relations. That's inevitable given the history of slavery and how recent the end of segregation / US form of apartheid was. It's not just superficial racism - it's deep structural stuff that often isn't visible on those polite levels, but scratch a bit and you'll find it and it's a quite raw.
You also have things like gun obsessions, very high gun crime, and an incarceration rate that's not just a bit above anywhere else but many times higher than comparable developed democracies.
Politically, having spent time there, my main take away from the US is that it's a country that has gone from being radical in the late 1700s with the setup of a modern republic, to one that has become quite stagnated and now reveres the founding fathers and the constitution as almost a dogma, rather than seeing a system that needs constant maintenance and updating.
The political and governance systems are broken and need urgent reform. That won't happen. That's why people become disaffected and don't engage. You give them awful choices in the 'best democracy that money can buy' and then wonder why they don't engage.
I mean seriously : look at the three key political figures: reality tv 'baddie' in the oval office and the best the democrats can come up with a speaker of the house in her 80s and a candidate for president who is so old he speaks like 1950s TV!?0 -
I live 50km from the US border and have visited the country many, many times. I do agree that it is a great place to visit and the people are great. But there’s no doubting that it has some serious societal problems. In my view these problems are built on fear which has always been around but had been amplified in recent times first by the constant cable news channels like Fox News and in more recent times by social media platforms like Facebook/Twitter.0
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Kermit.de.frog wrote: »The type China is taking away right now from Hong Kong.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/hong-kong-crisis-china-support-police-warns-us-interfere-trump
Where are Rich Boy Barrett and Claire Daly and the rest of them?
Why aren't they down at the Chinese embassy in protest?
The world is not a nice place and but for the USA it would be a far worse place. Who else is capable of standing up for us democracies in the world in relation to despot regimes?
No one.
You can deny it all you like. It's true.
The US is responsible for tens of MILLIONS of deaths in the last 40 years......NO OTHER country has killed as many innocent people as America to maintain global dominance and to profit from a war machine.
Hong Kong was TAKEN from China by the British .....10,000 miles away.
Not only that but the people of Hong Kong didn't even have a fucking mayor when the Brits ran the place. Not even a vote. They were ruled DIRECTLY from Westminster by old dickheads with dogs and barns and horses and mistresses who thought to themselves "We know what's best for those slanty eyed little folk."
So what has Hong Kong got to do with you or me or America or Britain?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Wow, I hadn't realised the US police were engaging in mass genocide. Wonder how that passed me by. :rolleyes:
I really wish people would stop exaggerating so much that they lessen the horrors in history.
The US police are nothing like the SS, and making such a comparison just shows how ignorant you are.
So stop having people say that we'd all be scratching around and eating our own faeces and vomit and first born if the glorious USA wasn't around to help.0 -
Experience_day wrote: »Well if it hadn't provided a counterbalance for most of the second half of last century then the Soviets would have ****ed over the rest of Europe..
Would they
And what do you base this on?
Russia was supposed to gobble up Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia in the last 15 years. Guess what....they're not interested in expanding westward......they are not interested in Finland or anything except their own safety.
That's it.
This Soviet "threat" of which you speak.......where has it manifested and where has it threatened?
Exactly nowhere. It is a figment of your imagination much the same as the red menace about to ingest Florida and bloodthirsty bolsheviks are going to land on every beach from Galveston TX to the Florida Keys and ship us all off to labour camps.
America kept us safe from the Russians :pac::pac::pac:0 -
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ShatterAlan wrote: »But the USA have killed millions of people in even the last 20 years.
How many countries have any other country attacked for no reason other than for profits and killed millions?
this is a totally untrue statement, what you mean to say is military were used to further the agenda of a particular set of corporate people who move between governments like they moved from the usa to here in 2007-8 to further their destruction of a culture0
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