The USA

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 5:48pm

Lyan wrote: »

@Blaze420

Of course it's not a perfect utopia. Such a thing is impossible. But you can't deny it's prosperity despite whatever flaws might tick you off. It will continue to lead the world economically and technologically for some time yet. And I believe those two areas are the most important in reducing suffering in the long term.

How is it prosperous? A few millionaires and billionaires skew the numbers.

Say you've got 3 pubs. Pub A, B, and C each with 10 construction workers sitting at the bar. The net worth in each pub is about the same. Then in pub A one worker gets up and walks out and Bill Gates walks in and takes his seat. You can now say that pub A is the most prosperous pub on the street but no amount of number crunching will demonstrate that the 9 construction worker in pub A are any better off.

Something like 45% of Americans coundln't come up with a measly $400 dollars in an emergency

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 5:51pm

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Have you actually been there or lived there ?
Or are you just being spoon fed opinions from the media ?

Blacks do make up a larger proportion of crime and even if you look in Ireland whenever some skanger is being arrested they're
going to cry "Ah... you're breaking my arm etc...".
But don't worry, Fianna Fail opened the floodgates of Africa in the Celtic Tiger years and we'll soon catch up.

What is the actual point of this meandering drivel? Have you been drinking?

Madeleine Birchfield · 30-05-2020 5:55pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=90G_QdxqqJs

"We are witnessing America as a failed social experiment"

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 5:55pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Currently living there.
Wouldn't call it a kip any more than any other country on the planet. Good and bad elements to it.
Has an awful lot going for it if you are on the right side of the line whether that is in terms of ethnicity, income, education status etc but very difficult if you are disenfranchised in any way with respect to these elements.

I agree with others who say that the current status has been exacerbated greatly by the current leader. The two party system is partly responsible for this as voters are very entrenched it seems and I think very few actually change their mind but an election can be determined based simply on who could be bothered more to vote.

Worst thing I could say about the country is that right now I couldn't say with confidence that he will lose in November. If he is returned in November it is infinitely worse than him having won in the first place as now people would select him 'knowing' just what he brings to the table. And if he continues as President, the next 4 years will be jawdropping in terms of just how low he will bring the respect for the office before he takes off.

The President of the US is not elected, he is selected by the elite. If the elite are benefitting from Trump and making billions off of his shenanigans then he will be re-selected to serve another term and Joe 6pack be damned.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 6:00pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The poor in America can still manage to have the latest fashions, cell phones and games consoles. They don't know what true poverty is.

If you can't make something of yourself in America [or any 1st World Country for that matter] than that's your fault.

Bullcrap man. Of developed nations America is near the bottom when it comes to social mobility. You have a much better chance of becoming better off in most European countries if you were born into poverty.

Madeleine Birchfield · 30-05-2020 6:08pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Bullcrap man. Of developed nations America is near the bottom when it comes to social mobility. You have a much better chance of becoming better off in most European countries if you were born into poverty.

Also black Americans would be treated much better in Europe than in the US by both the population and the police. The Spanish far-right is actively looking for Hispanics including Hispanic Americans to settle in Spain because they are Christians who speak Spanish as opposed to Arabic Muslims so they would be treated much better by the Spanish then they are right now by Americans.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 6:10pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's also the country that has achieved more for mankind than any other.

It's also vast geographically, beautiful and built up on a bigger scale than anywhere else.

People sometimes mention the lack of people with passports in the US but the reality is they don't need them. You can have a perfectly fulfilling life while never leaving the borders of the US.

What you see on the news is also a large distortion of the country, most of it is perfectly fine with great people.

This is a ridiculous statement. You could say this about any country but it's a bullsh1t argument. Oh why would I need to go to Machu Pichu when I can look at a picture of it on my laptop. Why would I visit the great pyramid of Giza when I can go see a fcuking papier mache mock up of it in Vegas.

Gimme a break...they don't "need" to. You don't travel because you "need" to. You travel to broaden your mind and experience different cultures and places. Can you experience the crazy souks of Marrakesh in America or marvel at the blue Mosque of Istanbul in America or see the Pamplona running of the bulls in America or scuba dive the Great Barrier reef in America or have Gibraltar barbary apes mug you for your bag of chips in America?

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 7:19pm

GY_1980 wrote: »

Completely disagree. It’s easily the greatest country I’ve ever been. I’ve visited many of their cities and States. Hugely diverse place.

What experiences are you basing your opinion on?

What's your definition of "greatest"? It's a term bandied about that means absolutely nothing because you can trot it out without having to give any specifics.

You can stand at a podium and blab "this is the greatest nation in the history of the universe" and not have to back up what you say and the plebs just lap it up.

what does it actually mean?

30-05-2020 7:21pm

I always say that America is a great place to visit but I'd hate to live there.

joe40 · 30-05-2020 7:37pm

https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk

This topic reminds me of the opening episode of the TV show newsroom.
I have some issues with the speech, but overall quite accurate.

Madeleine Birchfield · 30-05-2020 7:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I always say that America is a great place to visit but I'd hate to live there.

Not if you have dark skin. A few years ago there were three tourists in California, one from Canada, one from Australia, and one from Jamaica who were arrested by the police just as they were checking out from their Airbnb rental because they looked black.

Madeleine Birchfield · 30-05-2020 7:46pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What's your definition of "greatest"? It's a term bandied about that means absolutely nothing because you can trot it out without having to give any specifics.

You can stand at a podium and blab "this is the greatest nation in the history of the universe" and not have to back up what you say and the plebs just lap it up.

what does it actually mean?

If the US is the greatest nation in the world then I would like to see him explain the fact that Trump won 2016 on a campaign slogan of "Make America Great Again". As well as Bernie Sanders and Joe Rogan.

DeanAustin · 30-05-2020 8:16pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Talk to people? For what? What are you going to learn from a cretin who thinks France is a muslim country?

Come vist our village. Talk to our village idiot.

You think every American thinks that? I do have to laugh at people who subscribe to the "Americans are so dumb, they see nothing outside their country" school of thought. It's horse****. Most Americans I've spoken to, like pretty much any other nationality, are quite intelligent and have a good grasp on what's going on in the world.

There's an argument for America and an argument against it. For sure, there is a race problem there and the fault-line gets exposed very, very easily. I've seen it in California and Texas most of all and they aren't the worst places to be black by all accounts. The two party system has polarised politics to the point that there is no point to it anymore. If you're Republican, Trump could wipe his arse with the Stars and Stripes and you'd vote for him. The Democrats are no better.

But there are a lot of great things in the States too. They've given the world a lot in terms of industry/technology, art/music, sport and in so many other fields. It's a wonderful place to visit. California and New York are incredible. For what it is, Vegas is the best place on earth. So much of the rest of the country looks to be beautiful. They do theme parks, historic memorials and that sort of thing much better than anyone else on the planet.

It has its problems and I can see why people wouldn't like America but it's not a ****hole. There are countries around the world that are indisputably much worse.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 8:19pm

Andrewf20 wrote: »

It depends where you are. It has great scenery, people are friendly, roads and infrastructure are great. Politics, the medical side of things (cost) and college fees are not so great. Fairly crap work life balance for alot of professionals too and social support is lousy.

Are you for real?

There are over 60,000 bridges in the US that are in such poor condition that they could collapse at anytime. One did in Minnesota a few years ago killing 13 as it just plunged into the Mississippi. The Civil Engineering body in the US graded them as a D. Here's a few more:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/15/us/bridge-collapse-history-trnd/index.html

Ever driven across the Cross Bronx Expressway? It's a fcuking nightmare. Decrepit. I've seen better roads in Morocco.

Ever been inside an American airport? They are appalling. Haven't been upgraded in 40 years. Nothing works. The terminals are dire......like a Social Welfare waiting office. Treat yourself to a stint in JFK airport after you've had the joy of wandering around Schiphol and come back to me. Their train stations are worse. Penn, Grand Central.....absolutely pathetic. Then you have the actual trains themselves.....slow, crappy, never on time. There's not a single centimeter of high speed rail in the US. Take the TGV from Paris to Bordeaux and then take the North East Corridor from Boston to DC (which is about the best they've got) and tell me how great it was.

Sh1t even take the CityLink Bus from Dublin to Galway with its wifi and comfy seats and clean, working toilet and curtained windows if you want to sleep.....then take a Greyhound bus from the crumbling kip of Port Authority in New York to Baltimore. You'll want to slit your effing wrists.

People complain about the Tube in London. Just take the Subway in New York and you'll have something to complain about.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 8:43pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Lived in the US for 7 years now. In my experience its nothing like what many on here think. Vast majority of people are good people just living their lives. They aren't constantly debating politics and fighting with each other, and they know how to pull together and help out when bad things happen.

Yes it has its problems but the good outweighs the bad IMO and most people want change when it comes to the deep seated societal issues around race and poverty.

Why the fcuk can't they get anything done? Their politicians both Democrat and Republican just fcuk over the people and leave them fighting each other over crap like abortion or gay marriage or crap that has nothing to do with their circumstances. Tehy are hopelessly polarised into a my team / your team paradigm. They can't think critically. As long as their guy is in charge even if that guy is poisoning their drinking water for profit and fleecing their pension they'll cheer for the crook...because hey "He's our guy, we won. In your face, libtards."

Neither Republican NOR Democratic parties address the issues that are important to just about 99% of Americans, i.e. Education, Health coverage, inequality, climate change, rampant corruption in politics, runaway deregulation in the financial markets that trash the economy to the benefit of the top 1%, a 700 BILLION dollar budget on a military that is not needed for anything other than to make fortunes for war industry shareholders, gun control, a pathetic war on drugs that decimates the social fabric, etc., etc.

None of these things are ever addressed by either party. Instead they both just continue to hollow out the exchequer for their own aggrandizement and let the plebs bicker amongst themselves about how same-sex toilets will be the ruination of the fcuking republic.

Kermit.de.frog · 30-05-2020 8:46pm

Just watched the SpaceX launch.

That's the best of America.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 8:49pm

GY_1980 wrote: »

It happened on a small few occasions on nights out where people would ask about my feelings on Trump, politics, etc. but I’d avoid the question and act ignorant about their politics.

For the most part, I found Americans polite (much more polite than the average Irish person) and welcoming. Most of their cities have different cultures and atmospheres. I never felt unsafe there.

You would if you were black.

GY_1980 · 30-05-2020 8:54pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What's your definition of "greatest"? It's a term bandied about that means absolutely nothing because you can trot it out without having to give any specifics.

You can stand at a podium and blab "this is the greatest nation in the history of the universe" and not have to back up what you say and the plebs just lap it up.

what does it actually mean?

If you bothered to actually read my post and digest the context of it, you would see I’m saying it’s the greatest country to visit. Wonderfully diverse cities and States, like I also explicitly pointed out.

GY_1980 · 30-05-2020 9:01pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You would if you were black.

I see. You’re one of them - a dimwit.

I should have realised from your first reply.

Manic Moran · 30-05-2020 9:13pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My dealings with the police over there is that they are mini hitlers with power trips. I could never live there. I am not surprised at all that people are rioting when they have to live in the police state that it is.

Out of curiousity, how have you managed to have many interactions with the constabulary as a visitor? I live here, and I interact with them once every couple of years. Most recently for no front plate. Didn’t even blink when I notified him I was armed.

I have addressed the passport thing in a previous thread. About the same proportion of Americans have passports as French, and Americans are more likely to get on an airplane than anyone else in the world. There is serious misconception here.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 9:50pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's a great country, very diverse.

If you want to properly experience all that's truly great about it you need to rent a car and visit multiple states on the one visit.

Like everywhere it has it's problems but it will always be the greatest country in the world in spite of them because of the ideal of fundamental freedoms behind it not granted elsewhere in the world.

Those freedoms also include the freedom to fail and that's the trade. You do pay a severe price for failure over there unlike here.

There is no 200 a week waiting for you at the post office if you don't want to work!

That's the deal the citizens have. It's tough but it breeds innovation and risk taking like nowhere else.

This is always the flaccid, milquetoast answer when one has to acknowledge the catalogue of America's failings and outrages. "Oh, it has its problems, like anywhere."

Caging toddlers seeking asylum from warzones in Central America that are largely the making of the US in the first place is a "problem"? You like to use a euphamism like it's akin to someone having a penchant for leaving their laundry to pile up.

The biggest prison population in the world......"oh yeah, we have our problems"

A health system that values profit over life.
A fcuk you, I'm alright attitude.
A police force that makes the SS look like Hari Krishnas.
A war machine that has killed maybe 10 or 15 million innocent civilians since WW2.
A complete disregard for internal law and treaties.
A complete disregard for the environment.
A complete disregard oppressed people worldwide as long as the oppressors are paying tribute.
A political system that has legal bribery.

"Oh we have our problems just like Denmark or Singapore or Iceland, but we're not that bad, guys, really."

Kermit.de.frog · 30-05-2020 9:54pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

A health system that values profit over life.
A fcuk you, I'm alright attitude.
A police force that makes the SS look like Hari Krishnas.
A war machine that has killed maybe 10 or 15 million innocent civilians since WW2.
A complete disregard for internal law and treaties.
A complete disregard for the environment.
A complete disregard oppressed people worldwide as long as the oppressors are paying tribute.
A political system that has legal bribery.

Yeah but it's easy to poke a country with actual responsibilities in the world from a country like Ireland which, eh, doesn't.

We can hide and be on the side of the angels on everything.

Ironic we only have that luxury due to the protection the US extends over the western world. Would they ever get credit from certain people in Ireland? Of course not.

Where are all the criticisms from Irish people of Russian, and Chinese human rights abuses? Silence is deafening.

30-05-2020 10:02pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

A police force that makes the SS look like Hari Krishnas.

Wow, I hadn't realised the US police were engaging in mass genocide. Wonder how that passed me by. :rolleyes:

I really wish people would stop exaggerating so much that they lessen the horrors in history.

The US police are nothing like the SS, and making such a comparison just shows how ignorant you are.

30-05-2020 10:08pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yeah but it's easy to poke a country with actual responsibilities in the world from a country like Ireland which, eh, doesn't.

What responsibilities does the US have that they haven't sought, and bullied to get?

We can hide and be on the side of the angels on everything.

Ireland can try. Doesn't mean that other nations take us too seriously...

Ironic we only have that luxury due to the protection the US extends over the western world. Would they ever get credit from certain people in Ireland? Of course not.

Rubbish. What threats has Ireland (or Europe) that the US has protected us from? the Soviet Union is probably the only real threat, and even then, there was little to no actual threat considering they were more interested in holding on to what they had than risking everything in Europe. What has the US been protecting us from, and how have they helped us? The US. Not US based companies.... but the nation.

Have you been sucking the fumes on the US propaganda machine a bit too much?

Where are all the criticisms from Irish people of Russian, and Chinese human rights abuses? Silence is deafening.

Rubbish again. You're simply on the wrong threads.

jam_mac_jam · 30-05-2020 10:09pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yeah but it's easy to poke a country with actual responsibilities in the world from a country like Ireland which, eh, doesn't.

We can hide and be on the side of the angels on everything.

Ironic we only have that luxury due to the protection the US extends over the western world. Would they ever get credit from certain people in Ireland? Of course not.

Where are all the criticisms from Irish people of Russian, and Chinese human rights abuses? Silence is deafening.

But do we have that protection now the cold war is over? Or is the US helping ****ing up Iraq and Syria and leaving Europe to deal with the refugees.

I am not sure I am in favour or believe in the leader of the free word any more. Who exactly are they protecting us from?

But completely behind you on China and Russia. China is a cesspool of human rights and nobody mentions it. Tibet ffs.

30-05-2020 10:31pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

But completely behind you on China and Russia. China is a cesspool of human rights and nobody mentions it. Tibet ffs.

In terms of governmental objections.. what can they do? The UN has been a paper tiger forever. Governments make objections, but they'll be, for the most part, ignored. url]https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/joint-statement-on-xinjiang[/url

China is criticised quite often in western media (google away), and by western governments... but China will ignore them because it's just hot air. There's little to no chance of it being backed up. Americans aren't going to want to see body bags coming home from trying protect the rights of Muslims in China.. it's really that simple. And I doubt Irish people would be either if they had to commit engaging in a war. It's just more posturing, hoping someone else will do the dirty work for them.

jam_mac_jam · 30-05-2020 10:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In terms of governmental objections.. what can they do? The UN has been a paper tiger forever. Governments make objections, but they'll be, for the most part, ignored. url]https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/joint-statement-on-xinjiang[/url

China is criticised quite often in western media (google away), and by western governments... but China will ignore them because it's just hot air. There's little to no chance of it being backed up. Americans aren't going to want to see body bags coming home from trying protect the rights of Muslims in China.. it's really that simple. And I doubt Irish people would be either if they had to commit engaging in a war. It's just more posturing, hoping someone else will do the dirty work for them.

Oh no I am not saying the US should do anything. I meant that we all moan about what the US does but China gets away with murder.

Sorry if I didn't explain properly I was replying to the Kermets point.

30-05-2020 10:53pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Oh no I am not saying the US should do anything. I meant that we all moan about what the US does but China gets away with murder.

Sorry if I didn't explain properly I was replying to the Kermets point.

https://ourworldindata.org/human-rights#tracking-human-rights-abuses-over-time

Scroll to the bottom.

People like to talk/complain about Human rights abuses, but TBF there's a lot going on worldwide, that few really care about.

As for the US, it's progressively gotten worse since Sept 11. And it should be highlighted because it claims a high moral ground that doesn't reflect the reality, especially since it pushes that high morality on to other nations as if it's own **** doesn't matter.

ShatterAlan · 30-05-2020 11:01pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

You think every American thinks that? I do have to laugh at people who subscribe to the "Americans are so dumb, they see nothing outside their country" school of thought. It's horse****. Most Americans I've spoken to, like pretty much any other nationality, are quite intelligent and have a good grasp on what's going on in the world.

There's an argument for America and an argument against it. For sure, there is a race problem there and the fault-line gets exposed very, very easily. I've seen it in California and Texas most of all and they aren't the worst places to be black by all accounts. The two party system has polarised politics to the point that there is no point to it anymore. If you're Republican, Trump could wipe his arse with the Stars and Stripes and you'd vote for him. The Democrats are no better.

But there are a lot of great things in the States too. They've given the world a lot in terms of industry/technology, art/music, sport and in so many other fields. It's a wonderful place to visit. California and New York are incredible. For what it is, Vegas is the best place on earth. So much of the rest of the country looks to be beautiful. They do theme parks, historic memorials and that sort of thing much better than anyone else on the planet.

It has its problems and I can see why people wouldn't like America but it's not a ****hole. There are countries around the world that are indisputably much worse.

They do historical memorials better than anyone else on the planet? Really? What like having kids come up to some wall with names on it in Washington and say "all these people died so you would be "free" ". Crap like that. Nice revisionist history there. Do they mention that Vietnam never lifted a finger to hurt an American but had their country incinerated and 2 million of their people murdered. Same goes for Laos and Cambodia.

They have these feel good monuments relating to Valley Forge and Little Big Horn and all completely whitewashed to blot out the real truth and horrors and crimes that went with those campaigns.

And Vegas is the "best place on earth"? Are you serious?

You'd hold that cesspit of tackiness over Vienna or Budapest or Isfahan or Damascus (before it was trashed by American paid scumbags)?

A mecca for sex workers, gluttons, alcoholics and gambling addicts is your idea of the "best place on Earth"?

Whoa!

ChelseaRentBoy · 30-05-2020 11:17pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You would if you were black.

OJ's wife thought differently

The USA

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