The USA

Flickerfusion

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trump isn't an absolute ruler. Congress still needs to approve any such venture. There's your check and balance.

The M.East is possible, but would need preparation, which would lead to intervention by congress. Still, I doubt the US is really capable of it, considering the unrest caused by covid.

He doesn’t have to consult congress to respond with nuclear power, unfortunately.

The control of a retaliatory strike is designed to be “hair trigger”.

He has to consult with, but not necessarily listen to the Vice President and the Defence Secretary.

He then places a call to a mid ranking specialist unit within the military and gives command codes. The rest is automated.

It’s frighteningly missing any checks of balances and he has to “perceive a threat to the United States” to do so.

Congress handed absolute power on that to the president during the cold war era, on the basis that in an attack from the USSR, the president would need to be able to respond.

It also meant that the USSR knew that the US would respond rapidly. Thus it kept the mutually assured destruction balance.

Mr. Karate

Flickerfusion wrote: »

He doesn’t have to consult congress to respond with nuclear power, unfortunately.

Research before spouting off again. Contrary to popular belief there isn't a big red button just sitting on his desk and he can push it at any given moment. He needs authorization from the Pentagon first.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-nuclear-weapon-launch/

Flickerfusion

Unfortunately, the reality is he doesn’t have much at all restraining him from use:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/science/donald-trump-nuclear-codes.html

archer22

completedit wrote: »

All empires collapse. The American hegemony is over. Time for a new power.

Yep America is showing all the signs of a collapsing empire...falling apart from within and creating more and more external enemies.

All that can save America now is if the population rises up and there is an American spring where they overthrow their corrupt oligarch rulers and their brutal security apparatus.

Mr. Karate

[PHP][/PHP]

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Unfortunately, the reality is he doesn’t have much at all restraining him from use:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/science/donald-trump-nuclear-codes.html

Ofcourse you would go with the NY Slimes. There's more fiction in their news section than there is in a Harry Potter novel.

He needs authorization from the Pentagon.

Flickerfusion

If it did collapse, you’d wonder what might come after it. It’s still a wealthy region of the world, even if that’s relatively poorly distributed.

It’s also still extremely heavily armed. Who would end up in control of the US military?

So do you end up with a bunch of regions of the US? Individual States? How would it look?

Flickerfusion

Mr. Karate wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

Ofcourse you would go with the NY Slimes. There's more fiction in their news section than there is in a Harry Potter novel.

He needs authorization from the Pentagon.

Nothing in the article you posted says he has to get authorisation from the Pentagon.

“Some advisers may try to change the president’s mind or resign in protest—but ultimately, the Pentagon must comply with the commander-in-chief’s order”

Did you actually read it?

They can object but they can’t actually override him.

All they can do is attempt to delay or mutiny.

It has absolutely no oversight from congress and is an absolute power.

A more technical analysis of it :

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2018-01/features/strengthening-checks-presidential-nuclear-launch-authority

Flickerfusion

Flickerfusion wrote: »

He doesn’t have to consult congress to respond with nuclear power, unfortunately.

So, instead of a war, we're now discussing Trump launching nukes at another country? Nice escalation. :rolleyes:

He's a muppet, not a complete retard. And for all his faults, he is a patriot. He's not looking to destroy his nation, and commit suicide.

Mutual assured destruction isn't just a sweet term. The majority of US enemies have borders pretty close to Russia, or China. Which means the spread of fallout into their territories which would be seen as an act of war. And so, the US gets nuked in return by either Russia or China.

I swear, the lack of logic and awareness on this thread is disturbing. You're spending so much time talking about Trump that you're starting to go loony.

Flickerfusion

Go listen to his recent conference call to (rant at) governors. He’s anything but a temperate character and that stuff is very much a legitimate concern and has been raised by plenty of very serious commentators, both in reference to Trump and more generally.

[url] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-idUSKBN2382FP[/url]

Also he’s reportedly now looking at using the 1807 insurrection act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

Which allows the US presidency to deploy troops domestically.

Flickerfusion

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Go listen to his recent conference call to (rant at) governors. He’s anything but a temperate character and that stuff is very much a legitimate concern and has been raised by plenty of very serious commentators, both in reference to Trump and more generally.

Scale, Dude. Scale.

A little bit of a difference from nuking a nation, and opening yourself up to retaliation by the whole world, both economically and militarily. If you can't see that... then there's little point talking to you.

This hate for Trump is going too far.

completedit

It does feel like we are witnessing history? Who is to say a leader much more extreme than Trump doesn't come along in the midst of this chaos(if it escalates) It's hard to see where America goes? Fintan O'Toole's article from a few years ago was right.

archer22

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Go listen to his recent conference call to (rant at) governors. He’s anything but a temperate character and that stuff is very much a legitimate concern and has been raised by plenty of very serious commentators, both in reference to Trump and more generally.

[url] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-idUSKBN2382FP[/url]

Also he’s reportedly now looking at using the 1807 insurrection act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

Which allows the US presidency to deploy troops domestically.

Trump and Pompeo have been spending too much time in the company of Kushner, Netanyahu and the Saudi head choppers.

Their madness has aggravated Trump's and Pompeo's own mental instabilities.

Madeleine Birchfield

Flickerfusion wrote: »

If it did collapse, you’d wonder what might come after it. It’s still a wealthy region of the world, even if that’s relatively poorly distributed.

The value of the US dollar collapses if the US collapses and whatever wealth the US has disappears. Meanwhile the billionaires hop over to New Zealand or the UK.

Flickerfusion

Deleted User wrote: »

Scale, Dude. Scale.

A little bit of a difference from nuking a nation, and opening yourself up to retaliation by the whole world, both economically and militarily. If you can't see that... then there's little point talking to you.

This hate for Trump is going too far.

Well we can both happily use the ignore button then.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Scale, Dude. Scale.

A little bit of a difference from nuking a nation, and opening yourself up to retaliation by the whole world, both economically and militarily. If you can't see that... then there's little point talking to you.

This hate for Trump is going too far.

Why is it going too far?
Did you listen to the conference call?

Have you been watching his performance as President? Who would have thought a month ago that hardly anyone would be talking about Covid-19 by the 1st of June. And a large part of that is down to the his performance over the last few days.

namloc1980

Is it any wonder he bankrupted a casino, utterly incompetent and without an ounce of leadership in his body.

Kaybaykwah

namloc1980 wrote: »

Is it any wonder he bankrupted a casino, utterly incompetent and without an ounce of leadership in his body.

You have to admit his hairpiece has a certain wherewithal though, despite it being a foreign appendage.

markodaly

ShatterAlan wrote: »

America has


Killed more innocent people in the history of mankind in search of local and global dominance for the mega-rich.

This sentence sums up a lot of the nonsense when people talk about America, they are usually talking out of their hole. Try hards wanting to sound edgy and cool.

The US or America is a big vast diverse place when one cannot sum up easily by a soundbite or meme. It usually attracts a lot of detractors though, much of it fairly, alot of it unfairly because some are still sore that they lost the Cold War.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Why is it going too far?

Because dooming his nation due to retaliation nuke strikes isn't even remotely close to his profile..

Some posters here seem to think Trump is Hitler. Waiting in his bunker for his nation to be destroyed before killing himself.

I'm done talking about this. Absolutely ridiculous.

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, instead of a war, we're now discussing Trump launching nukes at another country? Nice escalation. :rolleyes:

He's a muppet, not a complete retard. And for all his faults, he is a patriot. He's not looking to destroy his nation, and commit suicide.

Mutual assured destruction isn't just a sweet term. The majority of US enemies have borders pretty close to Russia, or China. Which means the spread of fallout into their territories which would be seen as an act of war. And so, the US gets nuked in return by either Russia or China.

I swear, the lack of logic and awareness on this thread is disturbing. You're spending so much time talking about Trump that you're starting to go loony.

You don’t know what he’ll do. He is an idiot and he’s capable of anything

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because dooming his nation due to retaliation nuke strikes isn't even remotely close to his profile..

Some posters here seem to think Trump is Hitler. Waiting in his bunker for his nation to be destroyed before killing himself.

I'm done talking about this. Absolutely ridiculous.

Well no one mentioned Hitler (typical straw man from you) but I don’t think Hitler planned it like that, Trump is also unraveling.

Isn’t he threatening military mobilisation against protesters. He’s a dangerous out of control lunatic. Your points seemingly trying to play down the danger of the idiot Trump are absolutely ridiculous.

First Up

At least the US army will be too busy fighting Americans to have time to bother anyone else.

FVP3

The emphasis on Trump ignores all the other problems in the US, in particular its racial problems. And by that I don't mean the black white issue, but increasingly the nonwhite-white conflicts, the supposed end to "white supremacy". For most working class whites, who have lost their well paying jobs to China, are in the middle of a opioid epidemic, are living in declining rust belts this kind of rhetoric is like nails on blackboard. Life is getting worse for them. And there's no chance of an improvement.

Of course they have some privileges, better treatment by Police being one, but to overcome that the US needs to re-organise and demilitarise their police force, even disarm them and that isn't going to happen. If the US still had a large white majority then these issues would have been tackled by the left, with a declining white population the American left is entirely identity politics. The response to that is white identity politics, which is slightly hidden these days ( although Trump clearly appeals to that constituency) and that is going to continue and maybe become explicit.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Well no one mentioned Hitler (typical straw man from you) but I don’t think Hitler planned it like that, Trump is also unraveling.

Isn’t he threatening military mobilisation against protesters. He’s a dangerous out of control lunatic. Your points seemingly trying to play down the danger of the idiot Trump are absolutely ridiculous.

Typical strawman from me? have we had so many discussions before? Strange. I've no recollection of your name, whereas I do remember most posters I engage with.

The strawman argument is suggesting that Trump would nuke another nation, or that he could/would start a war during this time, without congressional approval.

Madeleine Birchfield

The USA is now shooting and tear gassing Australian journalists. What a kip.

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1267662905383596032

markodaly

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Is that what you think. America murdered a QUARTER of the population of Korea.

A simple google search will reveal that this claim is wrong by all accounts.
First of all, the pre-war population of Korea was about 30 million and about 3 million or so died in the conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Casualties

So how did the US alone kill 1/4 of the population when only 10% of the actual population died, and that is taking the position that the Americans killed everyone in that war and the North, were firing daisies from their rifles?

Then I see you dismissing things like the Russian annexation of the Crimea as if its was grand and warranted.

The US installed a brutally autocratic dictator in South Korea.

Dare I say, it may have been worth it.

Madeleine Birchfield

markodaly wrote: »

A simple google search will reveal that this claim is wrong by all accounts.
First of all, the pre-war population of Korea was about 30 million and about 3 million or so died in the conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Casualties

So how did the US alone kill 1/4 of the population when only 10% of the actual population died, and that is taking the position that the Americans killed everyone in that war and the North, were firing daisies from their rifles?

Then I see you dismissing things like the Russian annexation of the Crimea as if its was grand and warranted.






Dare I say, it may have been worth it.

A reading of modern Korean history would tell you that when South Korea was run by a dictator, North Korea was actually the more prosperous of the two. Only after the dictatorship fell did South Korea become more prosperous than North Korea

Madeleine Birchfield

The USA is acting like a third world dictatorship

https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/CIA-veterans-who-monitored-crackdowns-abroad-see-15312234.php