The USA

padz

these guy the masons, i was asked to join them its funny, i worked with people in finance who are part of them, i know they recruited people in entertainment, no lads im happy out, actually i said to them, whats the point, why mess with people but theyve been molested or something as kids, mentally defective, your man recruting me couldnt give me a solid answer except money and controlling people.... so burning down cities is the end result

padz

is boards not communist anyway, i do remember seeing something related to finance, people are bought off so easy its funny, also your phone networks, people are bought off... your wife was bought off you think she said 'i do' because of who you are?

Manic Moran

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Russia was supposed to gobble up Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia in the last 15 years. Guess what....they're not interested in expanding westward......they are not interested in Finland or anything except their own safety.

It probably helped that they joined NATO 16 years ago.

Ukraine did not. Georgia did not. Both have been losing territory to Russia.

It may be interesting to inquire with the Baltic nations (and Poland) why they have been quite happy to host US Army units in recent years. One may also observe the reintroduction of conscription in countries like Lithuania and Sweden or the expansion in Norway. They are looking East.

For all the issues the US military has, it's still quite good at conventional warfare, what NATO was set up for.

Optimalprimerib

I was there last year and you can do alot for very little money if you are clever enough. The Goodwill shops are amazing in which you get tax back for donations to them and you could nearly furnish your house with a bit of rummaging around in them.

How they handle sporting events is great craic. They really make an event of it. I got to go to a basketball game and spent my last morning in the city before a football game and the buzz was amazing.

But the size of people there was shocking. I never saw such shapelessly fat people in my life. Just blobs. The ease of living could cause that.

Kermit.de.frog

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You just said that the Americans "do" historical memorials better than the rest of the world.


How about how the Russians remembered the hell of Stalingrad that crushed the scourge of Nazism forever.


https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10/soviet-war-memorial-at-mamayev-kurgan.html


This is a nation that has suffered and America weeps about 50,000 suckers who were sent to kill "gooks" over the course of 10 years....yet they call the French a bunch of pussies who lost 100,000 in 6 weeks during the Battle of france in 1941.


Americans are just annoying loudmouths who make me sick.

So much that you can do in your life is dominated by American culture and technology and you don't even realise it because you're ignorant.

Let's take one example...

Do you know that thing you are using called the internet?

Do you know where that came from?

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

America has

Killed more innocent people in the history of mankind in search of local and global dominance for the mega-rich.

Genghis Khan still holds that lofty title, and we could easily point to half a dozen other regimes/empires who killed more than the US.

Also:
Destroyed any semblence of protection to humans.

Err... how? And... when did humans have such protection?

Legalised torture.
Legalised assassination.
Legalised kidnapping, abduction and extra-judicial, drum-head courts martial.
Violated pre and post, international treaties that are the supreme law of the land. (Check your constitution)
Illegally withdrawn from treaties and had the audacity to blame the remaining adherents as those in breach.

As have other nations. I don't particularly like the US but I wouldn't be supporting of a rant. They're a superpower. Different rules apply.. because they can get away with it. Power makes right.

Do you really want to go on talking about wanker-America.? Everyone on Earth hates them....except for a few twits who think Nicki Minaj is fcuking the best thing since learning to read.

You really don't get out much. The US is actually quite admired throughout the world. It's just their politics and foreign policy since Bush Jnr that the majority dislike.

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

The SchutzStaffel (SS) weren't either. They were just a vicious fanatical force. A private army outside of the Wehrmacht.

The SS weren't the proponents of genocide any more so than the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe. The SS were, however as a sickening power hungry gang of savages along with the volk-polizei or the NKVD in the Soviet Union.

You need to check your facts. The SS were present in one form or another for every genocidal act throughout the military campaigns (including many of the military occupations)... and the SS had various secondary arms which had other duties than being primarily soldiers. Do some reading.. its obvious your knowledge is hazy.

American police delight in hurting people.

We've seen that, this week.

We've seen that some American police act that way. It's still a far cry from your original statement.

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

So stop having people say that we'd all be scratching around and eating our own faeces and vomit and first born if the glorious USA wasn't around to help.

Where did I say any such thing?

You have serious issues when it comes to the reading of others posts. But go on. Quote me as to where I made any such remark. go on.


But thanks. You've just reinforced the impression of your ignorance. Well done.

Kermit.de.frog

It's true but no need to shout

joe40

Flickerfusion wrote: »

The US is a complicated thing to just describe in one line, but it has huge problems at the moment.

There's a great positive side: It can be fun, friendly, creative and quite community-focused and genuinely very open. It has some handy advantages like being a huge, geographically varied place with a single language and so on.

The downside is it has utterly toxic and dysfunctional politics, very stark divisions in terms of wealth with far less redistribution than you'd see in most western countries and it has, a massive problem with racism and race relations. That's inevitable given the history of slavery and how recent the end of segregation / US form of apartheid was. It's not just superficial racism - it's deep structural stuff that often isn't visible on those polite levels, but scratch a bit and you'll find it and it's a quite raw.

You also have things like gun obsessions, very high gun crime, and an incarceration rate that's not just a bit above anywhere else but many times higher than comparable developed democracies.

Politically, having spent time there, my main take away from the US is that it's a country that has gone from being radical in the late 1700s with the setup of a modern republic, to one that has become quite stagnated and now reveres the founding fathers and the constitution as almost a dogma, rather than seeing a system that needs constant maintenance and updating.

The political and governance systems are broken and need urgent reform. That won't happen. That's why people become disaffected and don't engage. You give them awful choices in the 'best democracy that money can buy' and then wonder why they don't engage.

I mean seriously : look at the three key political figures: reality tv 'baddie' in the oval office and the best the democrats can come up with a speaker of the house in her 80s and a candidate for president who is so old he speaks like 1950s TV!?

I think that is a great assessment of American society and American politics at the moment.

It is a contradiction but for one of the most powerful countries in the world there seems to be a lot of naivety and lack of modern thinking.
Eg,an obsession with the military and veterans, taking God into everything, "God bless America" is a constant refrain which you don't get in other countries.

I have no doubt that the majority of Americans are fine but the national image that is projected seems to be a country that hasn't modernised in the same way as Europe
Lack of gun control, clinging to the death penalty, militarised police force are just a few examples.

antimatterx

The place has gone mad:

https://twitter.com/chieffymac11/status/1266884475268616197?s=21

FVP3

ShatterAlan wrote: »

This is a nation that has suffered and America weeps about 50,000 suckers who were sent to kill "gooks" over the course of 10 years....yet they call the French a bunch of pussies who lost 100,000 in 6 weeks during the Battle of france in 1941.

The US left is just as responsible for that. For all the protests about racism, theres never much about American supremacism.

FVP3

Deleted User wrote: »

You really don't get out much. The US is actually quite admired throughout the world. It's just their politics and foreign policy since Bush Jnr that the majority dislike.

Thats probably true, people still like the culture. I do, in parts. I hate the foreign policy though. However in the last 20 years their society, as it gets sicker,and spews its nonsense though-out the world, it is getting worse.

FVP3

FVP3 wrote: »

Thats probably true, people still like the culture. I do, in parts. I hate the foreign policy though. However in the last 20 years their society, as it gets sicker,and spews its nonsense though-out the world, it is getting worse.

The US propaganda system used to be far more effective, perhaps since people were less aware of the techniques being used. With the rise of marketing, and the explosion of advertising into the public consciousness, it's more difficult for a nation to use it's propaganda in a subtle way. US based propaganda, reflects many aspects of American mentality, in that it's extremely obvious in most cases. Which is why it's failing in the modern world to hold peoples attention/acceptance.

The admiration that people often feel towards the US is based on the past. The association of the US with being the good guys... from WW2 through to the beginning of Vietnam. There's also the economic powerhouse that it used to be, which many less productive nations admired, but again, that's something in the past, too.

You see it quite often in Asia, where the US will be placed on a pedestal for it's economic history, but slowly people are realising that many of the American successes are more based on propaganda than realism. It's a system that's rotting from the inside outwards. Politically, socially, and economically.. so people are turning away from the US as any kind of rolemodel.

Cabletiesfix

alchemist33 wrote: »

Had a trip to Seattle for an NFL game last year and absolutely loved it. A fantastic city with really friendly people, the only downside being very visible homelessness.

The US is too big to make many sweeping statements about. True enough, politically it's a sh*tshow and the inequality is staggering. But large parts are far from being a kip, with people just like us getting on with their daily lives. I've also met some terrific Americans online. I'd love to visit again, but will be waiting for covid and politics to settle down first.

A fantastic city? Human ****e on the footpaths, tents on footpaths everywhere? Being hassled at every bus stop?

An absolute **** hole

threeball

Cabletiesfix wrote: »

A fantastic city? Human ****e on the footpaths, tents on footpaths everywhere? Being hassled at every bus stop?

An absolute **** hole

Someone earlier that Las Vegas was the best place on earth, where people live in the sewers and storm drains and the cavities of the concrete overpasses. It just shows what people are willing to overlook once their tourist experience is a good one.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

Someone earlier that Las Vegas was the best place on earth, where people live in the sewers and storm drains and the cavities of the concrete overpasses. It just shows what people are willing to overlook once their tourist experience is a good one.

It comes down to personal experience and expectations. I've lived the last ten years in Xi'an (China), which is a city that I love and hate in equal measure. Whereas I lived in Moscow for just under a year, and I absolutely loved it.. with each time I've returned since reinforcing that love. I know a fair few people who went to Moscow and hated it.

I detested Las Vegas myself, and I hated New York. Whereas, I quite liked San Francisco. Different interests, and experiences, alot of which depends on who you encounter while there. (and the particular scene you're exposed to. Moscow as a tourist is very different to Moscow as a professional with an expense account)

threeball

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It comes down to personal experience and expectations. I've lived the last ten years in Xi'an (China), which is a city that I love and hate in equal measure. Whereas I lived in Moscow for just under a year, and I absolutely loved it.. with each time I've returned since reinforcing that love. I know a fair few people who went to Moscow and hated it.

I detested Las Vegas myself, and I hated New York. Whereas, I quite liked San Francisco. Different interests, and experiences, alot of which depends on who you encounter while there. (and the particular scene you're exposed to. Moscow as a tourist is very different to Moscow as a professional with an expense account)

By any metric, Vegas is a vulgar sh1thole. Its the showcase of the dregs of humanity

ChikiChiki

threeball wrote: »

Someone earlier that Las Vegas was the best place on earth, where people live in the sewers and storm drains and the cavities of the concrete overpasses. It just shows what people are willing to overlook once their tourist experience is a good one.

No job security and employees working all sorts of hours of the day with feck all holidays. You can be escorted out the door at any given time.

The American Dream and equal opportunities is a myth. Insecurity is a huge issue over there.

All these factors cannot be overlooked.

alchemist33

Cabletiesfix wrote: »

A fantastic city? Human ****e on the footpaths, tents on footpaths everywhere? Being hassled at every bus stop?

An absolute **** hole

I didn't get any hassle, and the tents were mostly confined to the Pioneer Square area. You must have been there at a different time than me.

threeball

ChikiChiki wrote: »

No job security and employees working every hour of the day with feck all holidays. You can be escorted out the door at any given time.

The American Dream is a myth. Insecurity is a huge issue over there.

Its only a dream if you're coming from a real third world dump with oppressive governments. For anyone coming from any 1st world country its a step down in almost every standard.

threeball

alchemist33 wrote: »

I didn't get any hassle, and the tents were mostly confined to the Pioneer Square area. You must have been there at a different time than me.

Chicago is a great city once you stick to the Mag mile and Lakeshore drive. Head too far off the beaten path and you would be as well off in Honduras.

Madeleine Birchfield

threeball wrote: »

Its only a dream if you're coming from a real third world dump with oppressive governments. For anyone coming from any 1st world country its a step down in almost every standard.

Europe ought to make a deal with the US whereby we give the US the refugees from Africa and the Middle East. The refugees get to live their American Dream which would still be better than their war-torn country.

Cabletiesfix

alchemist33 wrote: »

I didn't get any hassle, and the tents were mostly confined to the Pioneer Square area. You must have been there at a different time than me.

I was there in September. Couldn't wait to get out of there. Felt like we were walking on full blocks at 6pm and were outnumbered by homeless.

Going into a restaurant and looking out at someone in a tent on the footpath, just staring into space. Takeaway cups full of human poop. Couldn't enjoy doing anything with the absolute poverty on show.

Rural areas of Washington state were so good though. Some lovely towns.
Think I'm finished with big American cities

Irish Praetorian

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Destroyed any semblence of protection to humans.
Legalised torture.
Legalised assassination.
Legalised kidnapping, abduction and extra-judicial, drum-head courts martial.
Violated pre and post, international treaties that are the supreme law of the land. (Check your constitution)
Illegally withdrawn from treaties and had the audacity to blame the remaining adherents as those in breach.

This has got to be one of the most historically illiterate, incoherent and ill-conceived arguments about the US that I've seen on this forum, and considering I've been in more than a few of those Israel-Palestine threads, that is saying something,

I'm going to say to you what I say to most people with what I regard as a fairly unhinged antipathy of the US - ask yourself, compared to what? There are, as you well know, no shortage of US policies which are worthy of criticism, I do so myself occasionally. The bigger question you have to ask is how the course of action which was taken, compared to what alternatives available at the time. A simple example might be the Korean War - I occasionally hear criticism of the US for getting involved in fighting that war and my response has to be, would consigning the population of South Korea to live under the kind of rule we see in North Korea today have been a better outcome? It's easy to stand back and say how much you decry things like civilian casualties or the gratuitous destruction of property - but unless you're an absolute pacifist, then you have to start questioning things a little more deeply and try to come up with a reasonable argument when such circumstances come about.

Or you can just forget about it and continue lobbing ill-informed cliches, to be fair that's a reasonably popular past-time in certain parts.

alchemist33

Cabletiesfix wrote: »

I was there in September. Couldn't wait to get out of there. Felt like we were walking on full blocks at 6pm and were outnumbered by homeless.

Going into a restaurant and looking out at someone in a tent on the footpath, just staring into space. Takeaway cups full of human poop. Couldn't enjoy doing anything with the absolute poverty on show.

Rural areas of Washington state were so good though. Some lovely towns.
Think I'm finished with big American cities

It really wasn't that bad in November, but I did also vow I'd see more of the state if theres a next time. Bainbridge Island was a very laidback, although a bit twee, taster for it.

threeball

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

Europe ought to make a deal with the US whereby we give the US the refugees from Africa and the Middle East. The refugees get to live their American Dream which would still be better than their war-torn country.

Seen as the yanks created most of the refugees in the first place then thats only fair. Spend 40 years making a bollox of the ME then telling europe to take responsibility for the refugees.

jam_mac_jam

Cabletiesfix wrote: »

I was there in September. Couldn't wait to get out of there. Felt like we were walking on full blocks at 6pm and were outnumbered by homeless.

Going into a restaurant and looking out at someone in a tent on the footpath, just staring into space. Takeaway cups full of human poop. Couldn't enjoy doing anything with the absolute poverty on show.

Rural areas of Washington state were so good though. Some lovely towns.
Think I'm finished with big American cities

That sounds horrible. I didn't realise Seattle was like that. I heard horror stories about San Francisco alright.

Madeleine Birchfield

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That sounds horrible. I didn't realise Seattle was like that. I heard horror stories about San Francisco alright.

The United States never really recovered from the 2008 recession despite what the stock market says.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

This has got to be one of the most historically illiterate, incoherent and ill-conceived arguments about the US that I've seen on this forum, and considering I've been in more than a few of those Israel-Palestine threads, that is saying something,

I'm going to say to you what I say to most people with what I regard as a fairly unhinged antipathy of the US - ask yourself, compared to what? There are, as you well know, no shortage of US policies which are worthy of criticism, I do so myself occasionally. The bigger question you have to ask is how the course of action which was taken, compared to what alternatives available at the time. A simple example might be the Korean War - I occasionally hear criticism of the US for getting involved in fighting that war and my response has to be, would consigning the population of South Korea to live under the kind of rule we see in North Korea today have been a better outcome? It's easy to stand back and say how much you decry things like civilian casualties or the gratuitous destruction of property - but unless you're an absolute pacifist, then you have to start questioning things a little more deeply and try to come up with a reasonable argument when such circumstances come about.

Or you can just forget about it and continue lobbing ill-informed cliches, to be fair that's a reasonably popular past-time in certain parts.

I will start off with an easy one, as an alternative course of action to locking people up and torturing them in Guantanamo they could have used any other legal means like trial by jury for example.