Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

road_high · 19-05-2020 01:52PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Pressure mounting to speed up the easing of restrictions. Maybe they'll sideline tony?

Well it'll be a first. All licking his hole to date anyhow so would take a major change. Unless Lord Leo sees the wind blowing another way publicly. So many stupid scared whitless idiots out there though.

is_that_so · 19-05-2020 01:56PM

road_high wrote: »

Well it'll be a first. All licking his hole to date anyhow so would take a major change. Unless Lord Leo sees the wind blowing another way publicly. So many stupid scared whitless idiots out there though.

We will probably be looking at a new government by the time Phase 2 comes along, definitely by Phase 3.

facehugger99 · 19-05-2020 01:59PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

A slimy, odious, spinning bureaucrat that would gladly wreck the economy for millions in order to protect his own reputation.

You can be sure the likes of him, Varadkar and Harris are well protected by their cushy salaries and pensions and will not shoulder any of the oncoming economic devastation that rest of us will face.

frillyleaf · 19-05-2020 02:02PM

They won’t be able to keep people in lockdown until 20th July. It’s too drawn out and would take too much resources to police. They’ve cut Garda overtime as far as I’m aware. I suspect some of the phase 3 will be moved into phase 2

road_high · 19-05-2020 02:02PM

is_that_so wrote: »

We will probably be looking at a new government by the time Phase 2 comes along, definitely by Phase 3.

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

is_that_so · 19-05-2020 02:05PM

road_high wrote: »

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

Not now and I can see them making it work but he does reserve the right and is not really fazed by the possibility of a new election.

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 02:06PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Ah so your blind defence and faith in the HSE makes sense now, you’re clearly another one who thinks working in the medical profession means your opinion is superior and of more value around here.
If anything it shows how you cannot be relied upon because you are still insisting that urgent healthcare is available as normal, despite anecdotal evidence here and verified evidence in the media saying that it isn’t and that many patients have been left in awful situations.
Yet you still refuse to even acknowledge it.

I’m not against taking sensible precautions such as social distancing & increased hand washing but I’m not in favour of keeping restrictions at the expense of anyone’s health. I guess those people don’t matter to you.

That attachment shows how few new cases we have nationwide, the vast majority (I think over 19k?) cases are now recovered and are not active cases. We had two deaths this weekend and six counties reported no new cases.
Dublin has the best resources & the most facilities in the whole country so what you’re saying just isn’t making sense.
And regardless, even if Dublin is in a worse situation, that still isn’t justification for locking down the rest of the country.

I have absolutely no faith in anything you post .
I have never 'refused to acknowledge ' as you put it that health care has been severely impacted.
It is not the fault of health service that we have a pandemic !

And to say that a healthcare worker doesn't care about lack or delays in service is ridiculous and shows what little regard you have for people working in the sector.

Fact is plans are in place to start non urgent care over the next week or two . And urgent care has been ongoing for the sickest and those who do attend for care , as I and other posters have also attested to. The fact that you choose not to believe those working in the service , over and over again, says more about you than me .

Of course Covid is going to have a major impact but we all knew this , and most reasonable people while not happy about it , understand .
I believe because your case was not deemed urgent enough you are prejudiced against the entire service.
There are many people who have never worked in a hospital who appreciate the difficulties to normal healthcare that this virus in the community represents and nobody wants to attend hospital for non elective care and end up with Covid 19.
Your ignorance is obvious when you try to say that the restrictions have caused the delays or difficulties in service, while ignoring the obvious difficulties for everyone trying to work through this pandemic.

So you want to separate Dublin from the rest of the country ? Maybe that would have been another decision that NPHET could have taken . But they didn't .

And you still think that reducing numbers or recovered patients means empty beds in hospitals ? This is not true , many patients stay at least 2 weeks in hospital being treated and some are weeks due to complications of this very nasty illness. The amount of care that the remaining patients need is exacerbated by the stringent infection control measures required and extra staff are needed to ensure all is done safely.
Nevertheless numbers have been reducing to a level that non Covid patients are now being admitted.

The only mismanagement , which I have said before , is the HSE taking over private hospitals and not putting them to good use , lack of PPe earlier in the crisis, and not addressing Nursing Homes and Residential Care Homes at an early stage . Testing was very ineffective slow to start with and a lot of positive cases were missed as a result . All of these issues have been addressed apart from the private hospitals which is next I hope. Far from being a blanket supporter I have spoken about these failings here and on the other Coronavirus threads since the start.
Some of the easing of restrictions so far don't appear to have been thought through eg public transport , wearing of masks .

You keep saying your business is affected by the restrictions , and I hope you get to open up soon , but it will be more adversely affected if we have to shutdown again because we weren't careful enough in easing this time and keeping control of this in the future . It's not all down to the government and HSE to protect us .

And so we will agree to disagree , as I don't believe your rhetoric and vice versa.

Ginger n Lemon · 19-05-2020 02:08PM

road_high wrote: »

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

FG were lucky to come in 3rd. Should there be another election greens will overtake them.

Leo will go down as the worst leader state had in a long time.

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.

road_high · 19-05-2020 02:13PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

FG were lucky to come in 3rd. Should there be another election greens will overtake them.

Leo will go down as the worst leader state had in a long time.

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.

Honestly don’t think that will happen. The greens are finished and FG have had all the limelight. The lockdown etc is a shambles but the fact is most people agree with it and the €350 had kept most sweet. It is idiotic but hopefully the next phases will move quicker now with pressure. The media are just as culpable too they’ve been atrocious

Wibbs · 19-05-2020 02:13PM

road_high wrote: »

Ah classic Tony- arse coverer in chief. Seems to be his main speciality.

Tony is the usual barely competent chancer we wheel into power. He's not alone in that either.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

So in Donegal you can't travel more than 5kms until June 8th and then more than 20kms up until July 20th

In Northern Ireland you can go where you like the same as in England

Other countries opening up internal and external travel well before us

Our plan is painfully slow and depriving us of meeting up with friends, family and partners legally for another 9 weeks and that's if the plan keeps on track

Then fcuk them and ignore it. If you have family and friends and keep your distance and don't cross their thresholds then meet them.

road_high wrote: »

The smug sneering at Greece a few years ago in Ireland too- now leading the way in how to run a country and an economy. We really are the joke of Europe at this stage. Europeans are just so sensible and pragmatic. We are just spineless hypochndriacs.
Time business big and small laid it on the fcukin line to the government here.

I dunno about Europeans being so sensible. Spain and Italy and France were very badly hit. Greece did it right. They instigated a much more enforced and severe lockdown, actually got police on the streets. No way in hell could a bunch of Travellers have driven from Athens 50 k inland to set up their sh1tshow on a Greek army base. They even quarantined whole towns and villages and they reacted quickly.

I got a fair bit of static in this forum for my criticism of our half useless leaders and guess who looks more right than the usual suburban forelock tuggers to authority. Other than the lockdown(though late enough), the emergency covid payment and making sure we had the capacity in hospitals if we had an Italy on our hands(they got that 100%, though they need to dial back that now) they got almost nothing else right. Testing has been a farce overall. Contact tracing minimal to the point of negligence. Movement restrictions across the board, pointless. QV travellers. The only health checks at our ports have been "here's a leaflet"(full of typos). By the time they decided masks indoors in public might be a plan it's "advisory" so about as much use as tits on a bull. Their "expert" was telling the Irish people asymptomatic spread was of little or no risk, over a month after it was shown to be(yet the claim to be following the WHO and ECDC). They let the care homes down massively, though hardly a shock and they have blood on their hands there. And we have 1500 plus dead. The aforementioned Greece with over ten million people, multiple borders, a stones throw from Italy and a massive refugee crisis? 168 dead. One hundred and sixty eight.

And now they don't even know how to take us back out of this. They have "de Plaaan" and they're sticking to it. Because god forbid they make any independent decision(vanishingly rarely) they will hang onto it for dear life out of shock that they made a decision in the first place. And forget RTE and Irish "journalism" who won't take them to task and ask hard questions, of which there are many.

So maybe it's time for the rest of us to take something of a leaf out of the Travellers book? IE ignore the fools. Keep the responsible social distancing handwashing(god forbid a mask or too), but ignore the rest of their guff. They've proven they couldn't enforce jack and relied on us to go along, so fcuk them at this stage.

funnydoggy · 19-05-2020 02:20PM

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1139223/

Chief Medical Officer, Dr Tony Holohan has told the committee that there is no certainty that Ireland can keep the virus suppressed."

FishOnABike · 19-05-2020 02:21PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You cant eradicate a virus. It mutates, changes it complexity. This is very embaressing to hear, hes really not doing DCU any favours.

Of course you can. Given the right conditions it will become extinct, just like many species before it.

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 02:23PM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

What is your point?

Is your point that the virus is so dangerous that we need to lock down for the next months? Or is this blind faith that the current easing is proportionate even if the numbers stay low?

You have signalled that you have a medical background (?) and have seen the effects. Were you in iCU and the wards?

At what stage do we say to people with other conditions or who may not even know about those conditions, that their health is less valuable than someone potentially getting Covid? Project fear has made many people petrified. They are afraid if they go into hospital they will catch it and infect their families.

Read my last post in answer to this . I am tired of responding to the same sensationalist posts .

Stark · 19-05-2020 02:24PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Pressure mounting to speed up the easing of restrictions. Maybe they'll sideline tony?

Where have you heard that?

Wibbs · 19-05-2020 02:26PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1139223/

The guy is a mediocre incompetent. He's had enough scandals attached to him. The HSE is a mess and has been for years. Covid19 has just brought this into sharp focus. Though as usual eff all will change and all the talking heads in management will keep getting their cushy public purse pensions.

FishOnABike wrote: »

Of course you can. Given the right conditions it will become extinct, just like many species before it.

Yeah oul Ginger seems not to have heard of Smallpox. Polio is not far off gone, tetanus is a rarity and few kids in the western world go through the childhood illnesses that were accepted when I was a kid, and I'm not that old.

GeorgeBailey · 19-05-2020 02:31PM

This thread should be renamed to something like "Restrictions need to be lifted asap" just to give people an idea of what they're coming into when they click on it.

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 02:35PM

gizmo23 wrote: »

It's a figure pulled straight from the sky. 5,000 people have come off the covid payment this week according to Ingrid miley

With just under 800,000 currently totally dependent on the state.

While a total of 1,263,000 are totally or partially ( TWSS) on the state

The irony of someone saying another person isn't trust worthy and then claims the above... shouldn't be lost on people

Pick one line ...and throw away everything else?

Not my claim.
It is estimated that will be the case by the end of this week..Irish Building Magazine , Tuesday May 19th.

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 02:44PM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

It is an easy place for Tony and co to be in as they will never be accountable for their actions.

They will say that they saved lives with their actions (any mistakes such as in nursing homes will be at the door of the HSE).

They will make the point in hindsight that they are asked to advise and Government makes the decisions (perhaps on paper).

They will distance themselves from the economic arguments (we saved lives).

They will point to utterances that the hospitals were open for other procedures (the reality is different).

So what are the other (potential or real?) effects of this continued lockdown?

- the lack of childcare means the health service will have a far lower capacity.
- all other capacity is focused on Covid
- this means that people with existing treatments are even more vulnerable. Lives will be lost.
- project fear means people are afraid to go into hospital. Lives will be lost
- screening programmes have been delayed or severely curtailed. Lives will be lost
- mental health cases are increasing (no surprise). Lives will be lost.
- domestic abuse is on the rise. Lives will be lost.
- alcohol consumption is up 25%. Lives will be lost.
- 1.26 million people are on State income supports.
- many businesses will never reopen.
- taxes will be increased to pay for the higher numbers requiring State supports.
- benefits including allowances will need to be reduced.
- recruitment in the public service will be stalled and efforts will be made to slim it down through retirements etc.
- health spending will need to be reduced - even longer waiting lists - lives will be lost.
- public transport capacity is massively reduced so people without private transport will not be able to report to work so will be let go.
- if schools and crèches do not reopen in September then parents may be forced to move to part-time work or one parent will need to stop working.
- the new reality will disproportionately hit women.

We do not have a Government with a mandate or who are accountable to parliament yet some of the biggest decisions any Irish Government has ever faced are being made.

All this is true but you are not offering any solutions.
We are facing this because we had no choice , do you not see this?
All the sxxxe from people coming out of the woodwork once the virus has been suppressed by locking down about how we could have done it another way , is just that , total sxxxe !
We have a caretaker government and haven't seen much from the others except the odd point , so nobody really jumping up to take responsibility from them , are they?

na1 · 19-05-2020 02:49PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.

I wonder if Leo's or any TD-s job is considered an essential?
Or can we lock them withing 5 km of their homes?

FishOnABike · 19-05-2020 02:50PM

MattS1 wrote: »

What will happen when the restaurants reopen and people try to use them as bars, ordering one course and a rake of drinks?

They'll end up with a severe hole in their pocket!

Whether it's an excuse for a meal in a restaurant to get a few drinks or a pub with social distancing it won't make much difference. Reservations only, table service only, limited numbers per table, limited number of tables, social distancing between tables.

Meehhhhh, for what it's worth I'd prefer to relax with a few drinks and company at home with a takeaway or home made meal, not have to worry about getting home and have a romantic night in, than bother using a restaurant as an excuse for a few drinks.

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 02:53PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think its important kids are thought real life values, like Tir na nÓg only exist in books and unfortunately we dont live forever, which some people have lost sight of since Covid 1st appeared

Well since my kids are all working in essential services Fintan, throughout this , I think they know all about real life values and a lot more besides.
In fact I am proud of them and their friends the mature way they have accepted this restriction on their social life, especially as it is so important to them.
But far from being brought up with fairy stories and the like, they were brought up to think of others and to be honest and compassionate .
That's what's needed here .

MrDavid1976 · 19-05-2020 02:56PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

All this is true but you are not offering any solutions.
We are facing this because we had no choice , do you not see this?
All the sxxxe from people coming out of the woodwork once the virus has been suppressed by locking down about how we could have done it another way , is just that , total sxxxe !
We have a caretaker government and haven't seen much from the others except the odd point , so nobody really jumping up to take responsibility from them , are they?

Thanks. “All this is true” is a massive step in the right direction in persuading people that other factors indeed have relevance. There are risks and choices and what I have been saying is that at this point of time (and I agreed with the lockdown) the risks of moving too slowly to reverse this will have a higher cost.

I am not looking back, rather looking forward. I think aspects of the plan are good but it was not designed by anyone who understands the interlinkages of the economy.

There will be risks in these choices but crèches, schools and public transport are key aspects of stimulating the recovery.

Why is WHO and Denmark saying that 1 metre is enough if other safeguards are in place yet we are fixated on two metres. That would be a massive enabler to get the country moving again.

the kelt · 19-05-2020 03:03PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Well since my kids are all working in essential services Fintan, throughout this , I think they know all about real life values and a lot more besides.
In fact I am proud of them and their friends the mature way they have accepted this restriction on their social life, especially as it is so important to them.
But far from being brought up with fairy stories and the like, they were brought up to think of others and to be honest and compassionate .
That's what's needed here .

What make you think someone who believes the easing of restrictions is far too slow here compared to other countries lacks compassion?

KrustyUCC · 19-05-2020 03:09PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Then fcuk them and ignore it. If you have family and friends and keep your distance and don't cross their thresholds then meet them.

I think more and more will start doing this just won't be legal

They won't get 9 weeks more compliance out of people in relation to travel restrictions when almost every other country is opening up

Worse that can happen is the guards turn you back

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 03:09PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1262650283383050241?s=19

Make of this what you will

Agree. Breast cancer cells are picked up on mammograms before patients feel a lump in their breast

iamwhoiam · 19-05-2020 03:16PM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Thanks. “All this is true” is a massive step in the right direction in persuading people that other factors indeed have relevance. There are risks and choices and what I have been saying is that at this point of time (and I agreed with the lockdown) the risks of moving too slowly to reverse this will have a higher cost.

I am not looking back, rather looking forward. I think aspects of the plan are good but it was not designed by anyone who understands the interlinkages of the economy.

There will be risks in these choices but crèches, schools and public transport are key aspects of stimulating the recovery.

Why is WHO and Denmark saying that 1 metre is enough if other safeguards are in place yet we are fixated on two metres. That would be a massive enabler to get the country moving again.

Dont you worry , when it suits the economy and the buses and LUAS spaces then we too will be down to one metre . It will then be ok as according to whoever says the right thing at the time

Goldengirl · 19-05-2020 03:16PM

ednwireland wrote: »

it is a total disgrace, heard about someone who was diagnosed with cance rtwo months ago and hasnt had any contact since forem the HSE, but then the hse seem good at ignoring cancer

Has that person not rung their GP? Tell them to ring today and tomorrow and the next day until they get an answer or a consultation.
Noone in the health service ignoring cancer, or should be.

Wibbs · 19-05-2020 03:17PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

All this is true but you are not offering any solutions.
We are facing this because we had no choice , do you not see this?
All the sxxxe from people coming out of the woodwork once the virus has been suppressed by locking down about how we could have done it another way , is just that , total sxxxe !

I hate to break it to you, but many of the "people coming out of the woodwork" as you term them have been suggesting what we should have done from many months back and a goodly number were suggesting protocols that other nations have followed, nations that have ten times or more fewer dead people in graves compared to us.

Have a look at this statistic.

As things stand we're in the top ten. Now that will change over time as true numbers come in, but we're way off doing great. Never mind that out of that lot above we have the lowest population density and more people living in houses. A fact that should have had us in much better stead.

We have a caretaker government and haven't seen much from the others except the odd point , so nobody really jumping up to take responsibility from them , are they?

Nope, and it has long been my contention that pretty much none of our political class regardless of background would have made much of a difference. We as a people seem to favour the blindingly mediocre. The HSE is well the HSE and long unfit for purpose at management level(the current minister has said this) so no change there. And no government of any party has had the balls to fix that in decades.

Conte.. · 19-05-2020 03:17PM

Down the local supermarket nobody wearing.masks thankfully

Everyone keeping.distsnce.and.communicating like humans

Wibbs · 19-05-2020 03:18PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Dont you worry , when it suits the economy and the buses and LUAS spaces then we too will be down to one metre . It will then be ok as according to whoever says the right thing at the time

I've found in the last week or so two metres in shops anyway is a moving target.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings