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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #5042
    Irish Aris
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 6,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Aris


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Its all incredibly scientific from what I can see.

    If one travels 6km from their homes on the 7th of June the grim reaper will be notified using google maps.

    Likewise for the health risk of barbers which will immediately dissipate at midnight July 19th.

    The way I interpret the whole easing of restrictions is that travelling only 5 km away from home, reduces the radius and makes tracing easier. On the other hand though the authorities seem to struggle on an effective tracing approach and, frankly, I think that unless they have something in place by the time of phase 2, then that's it.

    On another note, I was just checking the thread with the statistics that GM228 has created and updates daily. If I read the numbers correctly, there are nearly 20000 people that recovered and around 3500 confirmed active cases. If this trend of low new daily cases continues, then the numbers will look very solid. I still don't think that they will be any acceleration for phase 2, but maybe some room to bring elements of phases 4 and 5 to phase 3.

    2025 gigs: Selofan, Alison Moyet, Wardruna, Gavin Friday, Orla Gartland, The Courettes, Nine Inch Nails, Rhiannon Giddens, New Purple Celebration, Nova Twins



  • #5043
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,373 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    You’ve answered no question re where you stand, tried to throw in an anti vaccine argument into it from nowhere, given no point of view and contributed nothing to the debate for either side.
    I respect all opinions and points of view. Good day.

    Because where I stand on the way forward from this point is utterly irrelevant to what you have said regarding the fact there was no need for such a lock down given the numbers we have.


  • #5044
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,373 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    polesheep wrote: »
    There are those of us who believed, at the time, that the full lockdown was not required and that a partial lockdown of the vulnerable allied to social distancing, good hygiene, etc would have been enough. You believe that the lockdown was required, but you can no more prove it than I can prove my position.

    And it's not your stance that I have issue with, we may agree or disagree on it, but that was your stance.

    You're not retrospectively claiming that the lock down wasn't needed and justifying that stance using the resulting numbers.


  • #5045
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Of all restrictions right now the 5kms is daft
    At the start I was very compliant with the travel restrictions(outside of work when required and what I was allowed to do).

    Right until I saw ten families of Travellers were allowed to arrive in the country from one of the worst hit countries in Europe, go 50+ kms inland and set up an illegal encampment on government land. At the height of our lockdown when I and the rest of us were going through checkpoints being asked where we were going. Never mind the up and down testing, crap contact tracing, no quarantines etc. Sod that half arsed amateur hour ballsology. Since then I pretty much ignore it TBH and if needs be I'll ignore the 5Kms too. I still practice social distancing, haven't crossed the threshold of anywhere but shops since this kicked off, even wear masks when I do *gasp*, but wholly arbitrary distance limits? Bollocks.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #5046
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Link
    I hope the intervention did not have too much of an impact because it most likely made the situation worse. The intervention was to ‘flatten the curve’. That means that there would be the same number of cases but spread out over a longer period of time, because otherwise the hospitals would not have enough capacity.

    Now, as we know, children and young adults do not end up in hospitals. It is only those who are both elderly and have comorbidities that do. Therefore you have to protect the elderly and the nursing homes. The ideal approach would be to simply shut the door of the nursing homes and keep the personnel and the elderly locked in for a certain amount of time, and pay the staff overtime to stay there for 24 hours per day.

    How long can you do that for? For three weeks, that is possible. For 18 months, it is not. The flattening of the curve, the prolongation of the epidemic, makes it more difficult to protect the elderly, who are at risk. More of the elderly people become infected, and we have more deaths.
    Firstly, we have the direct consequences: suicides, domestic violence and other social consequences leading to death. And then we have people who are too scared to go to the hospitals for other problems like strokes or heart attacks. So people stay away from hospitals because of the Covid fear. And then they die.


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  • #5047
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    growleaves wrote: »
    Link
    He's not saying anything terribly new at all at this stage. Yes, there is an awareness of the cure being worse than the disease and there has been since day 1. The curve flattening is almost a cliché it's been used so much. Our extended unwinding gives us plenty and to see how it goes for us and how it's going for other countries. Bear in mind it's now 13 working days to Phase 2!


  • #5048
    Irish Aris
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 6,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Aris


    Deleted User wrote: »
    To be honest, I think we could open up the whole country tomorrow and we would be grand. Obviously we'd keep in place social distancing and hand washing etc. There might be a rise in cases and even deaths but it would be an acceptable level and we'd have to balance things.

    The big challenge is air travel and sports/events etc. Stopping air travel and big events likely had a much bigger impact in reducing cases than locking down.

    Thats what we'll need to be most cautious about reopening. Ironically, Leo has already mentioned air travel. We can keep Ikea closed for months but I guarantee we won't want to upset the EU when they want free movement back.

    I'd be in favour of us getting our own country going again as soon as possible. I personally don't care if we wait a few months to see how air travel goes between other countries first.

    In my home country Greece, as of yesterday travelling anywhere in the country is allowed.
    I got an email from Aegean Airlines (the biggest airline company in Greece), that they will start domestic flights straight away. For international flights they mention: "We are getting ready to gradually restore international operations in the coming weeks and months. Initially we plan to restart operations with a limited schedule from Athens to Munich, Frankfurt, Geneva and Zurich. At the same time, we shall increase flights operating to Brussels, which is the only international destination that we didn't suspend. Soon, more destinations will be added".
    in the coming weeks and months: the reality is that they don't really know exactly when they will be able to operate. I reckon demand will play a role. The cities mentioned are interesting: the plan is that tourism will operate in the summer and the Greek islands would be a popular destination for German tourists.

    2025 gigs: Selofan, Alison Moyet, Wardruna, Gavin Friday, Orla Gartland, The Courettes, Nine Inch Nails, Rhiannon Giddens, New Purple Celebration, Nova Twins



  • #5049
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I actually believed the same until they fudged the businesses included in phase 1 at the 11th hour, due to a ‘typo’.
    These businesses had spent all last week getting ready to reopen, setting up new procedures etc only to be told Friday that it was a mistake and that they weren’t allowed open after all.

    Meanwhile the drapery, homeware, and clothing retail sections in all of my local Dunnes stores are now open and have been for the last few weeks and they’re getting away with it because they also sell food.
    It must be soul destroying for other businesses seeing them open and making money while they’re being prevented from opening for another 3 weeks, after being closed since mid March.

    After that I have no doubt that there’ll be more ‘typos’ and miscommunications along the way, and I can’t see them accelerating things at all.

    The reality is we should be entering phase 3 on June 8th and not a moment later.
    We are ready for it, businesses are ready for it, and the health service is ready for it. With over a million taxpayers now unemployed, the public purse is also most definitely ready for it.
    We can’t expect much more compliance from people who have already pretty much sacrificed everything.

    There is actually so much tension and anger where I am from that I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see Trump style lockdown protests soon. People have had enough of being chastised when we have done what was asked of us, and now the government aren’t fulfilling their end of the bargain.

    Where are you from?


  • #5050
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He's not saying anything terribly new at all at this stage. Yes, there is an awareness of the cure being worse than the disease and there has been since day 1. The curve flattening is almost a cliché it's been used so much. Our extended unwinding gives us plenty and to see how it goes for us and how it's going for other countries. Bear in mind it's now 13 working days to Phase 2!




  • #5051
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Of all restrictions right now the 5kms is daft
    It is but psychologically it's over double what we had. It's also probably likely to have helped maintain the very good compliance levels here. That is what they are after IMO, minimising the number of longer journeys.


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  • #5052
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    growleaves wrote: »
    Hang in there! :D


  • #5053
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,367 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Krispy Kreme back open for drive thru tomorrow.


  • #5054
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Because where I stand on the way forward from this point is utterly irrelevant to what you have said regarding the fact there was no need for such a lock down given the numbers we have.

    I never said there was no need for a lockdown - I said they have new information out every day showing why we shouldn’t continue with the lockdown...Are you even reading my posts?


  • #5055
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,712 ✭✭✭storker


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Logic Fail alert.

    Not really. Your message lacked the required infoirmation.
    These weren't the only two options available.

    Yes. Which is why I asked.
    We could have implemented reasonable precautions, implemented social distancing where possible, stressed improved hand hygiene, facilitated work from home where possible, identified the vulnerable demographics and protected them, etc, etc.

    Sounds reasonable, but it assumes people will comply.


  • #5056
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    is_that_so wrote: »
    There are a whole lot of "Listen to me I'm a doctor" voices out there, regardless of their specialty. He resigned from the Irish Medical Council BTW not NPHET. What exactly are they going to ask him as he's a care home GP and that has now been addressed?

    Yes you are correct he resigned from Irish Medical Council rather than NPHET.

    But he’s hardly a ‘listen to me I’m a doctor’ type. He was appointed to the council initially by Simon Harris - he must hold him in esteem. He’s equally as qualified as many other doctors we hear from on in the media.

    His twitter page is highly critical widely of RTÉ and the government, aside from the care home issue. He is particularly vocal on the issue of cancer screening being still paused - I’d think this at least could make him relevant to any balanced media discussion on this issue.

    But you won’t hear from him in mainstream media for the masses.


  • #5057
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    There are some of us here who have been derided for highlighting the negative effects of the lockdown and questioning it on multiple grounds including other health services, metal health and the economy. We have been accused of being anti-vaxxers, the pro-economic brigade, and followers of Gemma O’Doherty.

    Over the last 3/4 days, we are starting to see evidence of all these with CSO report on business yesterday, the study carried out by the Department of Business over the weekend, and now today on mental health https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cso-covid-19-has-hit-peoples-well-being-more-than-the-crash-with-women-affected-more-1000390.html

    The CMO provides advice on public health. The Government needs to weigh this advice against other issues such as economy, mental health, the health service more generally, the education needs of our citizens etc. It is now beyond time that these other aspects are properly considered.

    There is no point getting too hooked up on whether the initial lockdown was a good thing or a bad thing, but the decisions (including the inability to make decisions) made now as the risk has receded (and that is what the evidence says) will have massive implications for the next decade.


  • #5058
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,712 ✭✭✭storker


    Wibbs wrote: »
    At the start I was very compliant with the travel restrictions(outside of work when required and what I was allowed to do).

    Right until I saw ten families of Travellers were allowed to arrive in the country from one of the worst hit countries in Europe, go 50+ kms inland and set up an illegal encampment on government land. At the height of our lockdown when I and the rest of us were going through checkpoints being asked where we were going. Never mind the up and down testing, crap contact tracing, no quarantines etc. Sod that half arsed amateur hour ballsology. Since then I pretty much ignore it TBH and if needs be I'll ignore the 5Kms too. I still practice social distancing, haven't crossed the threshold of anywhere but shops since this kicked off, even wear masks when I do *gasp*, but wholly arbitrary distance limits? Bollocks.

    Agree 100% about the Traveller "rules". If it's worth making a rule then it's worth making it for everybody, and to hell with the likes of Pavee point. Let's face it, if everyone else was subject to the same rules Travellers could hardly claim discrimination.


  • #5059
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Krispy Kreme back open for drive thru tomorrow.

    reminded me of

    https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1262442995296731139

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #5060
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    Yes you are correct he resigned from Irish Medical Council rather than NPHET.

    But he’s hardly a ‘listen to me I’m a doctor’ type. He was appointed to the council initially by Simon Harris - he must hold him in esteem. He’s equally as qualified as many other doctors we hear from on in the media.

    His twitter page is highly critical widely of RTÉ and the government, aside from the care home issue. He is particularly vocal on the issue of cancer screening being still paused - I’d think this at least could make him relevant to any balanced media discussion on this issue.

    But you won’t hear from him in mainstream media for the masses.
    My impression of him is that he is vocal whatever he's talking about. Incidentally, Gabriel Scally agrees with the pausing, as does pretty much anyone else asked about it. Restarting will be the next question.


  • #5061
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,859 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Irish Aris wrote: »
    In my home country Greece, as of yesterday travelling anywhere in the country is allowed.
    I got an email from Aegean Airlines (the biggest airline company in Greece), that they will start domestic flights straight away. For international flights they mention: "We are getting ready to gradually restore international operations in the coming weeks and months. Initially we plan to restart operations with a limited schedule from Athens to Munich, Frankfurt, Geneva and Zurich. At the same time, we shall increase flights operating to Brussels, which is the only international destination that we didn't suspend. Soon, more destinations will be added".
    in the coming weeks and months: the reality is that they don't really know exactly when they will be able to operate. I reckon demand will play a role. The cities mentioned are interesting: the plan is that tourism will operate in the summer and the Greek islands would be a popular destination for German tourists.

    The smug sneering at Greece a few years ago in Ireland too- now leading the way in how to run a country and an economy. We really are the joke of Europe at this stage. Europeans are just so sensible and pragmatic. We are just spineless hypochndriacs.
    Time business big and small laid it on the fcukin line to the government here.


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  • #5062
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    13:15
    Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

    Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

    Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

    Some spin job anyway.


  • #5063
    snowgal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭snowgal


    it is getting hugely frustrating to read about Travellers allowances day in and day out. Like everyone, I have stuck to the rules and kept distancing, havent seen people I shouldnt etc. I heard on the radio yesterday, a Councillor speaking out that he had publicly complained about the Travellers turning up at the funeral last week. He was threatened by a Traveller a few days later who told him they are going to come to house and murder him. This is really bad form from the Gaurds and Government.....


  • #5064
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,859 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    13:15
    Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

    Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

    Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

    Some spin job anyway.

    Ah classic Tony- arse coverer in chief. Seems to be his main speciality.


  • #5065
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    13:15
    Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

    Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

    Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

    Some spin job anyway.

    I believe the first outbreak in a nursing home was 16 days after visitors were restricted


  • #5066
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    13:15
    Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

    Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

    Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

    Some spin job anyway.
    It must have been the day after he said the visiting restriction wasn't consistent with their advice! First case came about 2 weeks after the first community case, which was about 1 March.


  • #5067
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    13:15
    Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

    Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

    Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

    Some spin job anyway.

    So why did he wait for the first case to be reported ? It was obvious from Italys tragedy that it was going to ravage the care homes . Far too late when its already in the door


  • #5068
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Breezin wrote: »
    Ulster no longer saying No just for the sake of it. Unrestricted travel until they cross the border to lockdown land and its daft 5k rule.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTslU3gdL1E

    So in Donegal you can't travel more than 5kms until June 8th and then more than 20kms up until July 20th

    In Northern Ireland you can go where you like the same as in England

    Other countries opening up internal and external travel well before us

    Our plan is painfully slow and depriving us of meeting up with friends, family and partners legally for another 9 weeks and that's if the plan keeps on track


  • #5069
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,859 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    So in Donegal you can't travel more than 5kms until June 8th and then more than 20kms up until July 20th

    In Northern Ireland you can go where you like the same as in England

    Other countries opening up internal and external travel well before us

    Our plan is painfully slow and depriving us of meeting up with friends, family and partners legally for another 9 weeks and that's if the plan keeps on track

    Actually think Simon Harris has some physhotic tendancies. Listening to the crap he was coming out with this morning. This isn't normal human empathy or behaviour.


  • #5070
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,337 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Pressure mounting to speed up the easing of restrictions. Maybe they'll sideline tony?


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  • #5071
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,373 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    All of the models were completely wrong to date.
    .........
    The figures don’t lie, the vast majority of people in Ireland are not sick with Covid 19.
    CruelSummer wrote: »
    I never said there was no need for a lockdown - I said they have new information out every day showing why we shouldn’t continue with the lockdown...Are you even reading my posts?

    "All the models were completely wrong to date". The reasoning and explanation was pointed out to you by other posters.

    As a world renowned man once said, it's the implication.


This discussion has been closed.
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