Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

gizmo23 · 19-05-2020 07:39AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

100,000 people off the Covid payment? Where did you see that figure?

It's a figure pulled straight from the sky. 5,000 people have come off the covid payment this week according to Ingrid miley

With just under 800,000 currently totally dependent on the state.

While a total of 1,263,000 are totally or partially ( TWSS) on the state

The irony of someone saying another person isn't trust worthy and then claims the above... shouldn't be lost on people

snowcat · 19-05-2020 07:57AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Has to stay like that for a protracted period of time.

A second lock down would be disasterous. We need to put the foot on this now and keep the social distancing measures in place after the economy is fully open.

Otherwise in Autumn we head to disaster.

Hopefully we have learned from this mess and another lockdown is never imposed. A lot of our deaths stemmed from the failure to protect the vulnerable in nursing homes. The lockdown was imposed after the virus was rampant in these facilities and circulating possibly for months in the wider population. The lockdown had questionable medical effect and disastrous economic effect.

MrDavid1976 · 19-05-2020 08:11AM

It is an easy place for Tony and co to be in as they will never be accountable for their actions.

They will say that they saved lives with their actions (any mistakes such as in nursing homes will be at the door of the HSE).

They will make the point in hindsight that they are asked to advise and Government makes the decisions (perhaps on paper).

They will distance themselves from the economic arguments (we saved lives).

They will point to utterances that the hospitals were open for other procedures (the reality is different).

So what are the other (potential or real?) effects of this continued lockdown?

- the lack of childcare means the health service will have a far lower capacity.
- all other capacity is focused on Covid
- this means that people with existing treatments are even more vulnerable. Lives will be lost.
- project fear means people are afraid to go into hospital. Lives will be lost
- screening programmes have been delayed or severely curtailed. Lives will be lost
- mental health cases are increasing (no surprise). Lives will be lost.
- domestic abuse is on the rise. Lives will be lost.
- alcohol consumption is up 25%. Lives will be lost.
- 1.26 million people are on State income supports.
- many businesses will never reopen.
- taxes will be increased to pay for the higher numbers requiring State supports.
- benefits including allowances will need to be reduced.
- recruitment in the public service will be stalled and efforts will be made to slim it down through retirements etc.
- health spending will need to be reduced - even longer waiting lists - lives will be lost.
- public transport capacity is massively reduced so people without private transport will not be able to report to work so will be let go.
- if schools and crèches do not reopen in September then parents may be forced to move to part-time work or one parent will need to stop working.
- the new reality will disproportionately hit women.

We do not have a Government with a mandate or who are accountable to parliament yet some of the biggest decisions any Irish Government has ever faced are being made.

FintanMcluskey · 19-05-2020 08:13AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I don't want to be telling my kids that we didn't care about your uncle with hypertension, or your aunt with diabetes, or your friend who just had a bad reaction to the virus and suffered a stroke.
Different choices.

I think its important kids are thought real life values, like Tir na nÓg only exist in books and unfortunately we dont live forever, which some people have lost sight of since Covid 1st appeared

NegativeCreep · 19-05-2020 08:22AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

It is an easy place for Tony and co to be in as they will never be accountable for their actions.

They will say that they saved lives with their actions (any mistakes such as in nursing homes will be at the door of the HSE).

They will make the point in hindsight that they are asked to advise and Government makes the decisions (perhaps on paper).

They will distance themselves from the economic arguments (we saved lives).

They will point to utterances that the hospitals were open for other procedures (the reality is different).

So what are the other (potential or real?) effects of this continued lockdown?

- the lack of childcare means the health service will have a far lower capacity.
- all other capacity is focused on Covid
- this means that people with existing treatments are even more vulnerable. Lives will be lost.
- project fear means people are afraid to go into hospital. Lives will be lost
- screening programmes have been delayed or severely curtailed. Lives will be lost
- mental health cases are increasing (no surprise). Lives will be lost.
- domestic abuse is on the rise. Lives will be lost.
- alcohol consumption is up 25%. Lives will be lost.
- 1.26 million people are on State income supports.
- many businesses will never reopen.
- taxes will be increased to pay for the higher numbers requiring State supports.
- benefits including allowances will need to be reduced.
- recruitment in the public service will be stalled and efforts will be made to slim it down through retirements etc.
- health spending will need to be reduced - even longer waiting lists - lives will be lost.
- public transport capacity is massively reduced so people without private transport will not be able to report to work so will be let go.
- if schools and crèches do not reopen in September then parents may be forced to move to part-time work or one parent will need to stop working.
- the new reality will disproportionately hit women.

We do not have a Government with a mandate or who are accountable to parliament yet some of the biggest decisions any Irish Government has ever faced are being made.

I agree with all except the last part. Recessions tends to disproportionately affect males for whatever reason. The last recession saw male suicide rates jump up.

growleaves · 19-05-2020 08:23AM

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/16/uk-lockdown-causing-serious-mental-illness-in-first-time-patients

growleaves · 19-05-2020 08:26AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52702048?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020200518%20%20Facebook%20%20SM+CID_c23d298cb2f5f9f63e0f9c9358e149e0

MrDavid1976 · 19-05-2020 08:26AM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I agree with all except the last part. Recessions tends to disproportionately affect males for whatever reason. The last recession saw male suicide rates jump up.

I know that and that is a very well made point. But (and it is only an opinion) the closing of Crèches and Schools may this time out lead to a different effect or perhaps be the first equal opportunities recession.

CalamariFritti · 19-05-2020 08:29AM

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Fair play, you are doing a brilliant job. Keep up the great work.

I just hope the medical staff working in ICU are doing as good a job as you are.

Are you seriously scolding me for calling someone out on wrong and exaggerated numbers?

LiquidZeb · 19-05-2020 08:30AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Too busy reading Gemma O'Doherty and the EndTheLockdown on FB

You're like a broken record on about bloody Gemma, use some creativity

ednwireland · 19-05-2020 08:31AM

the longer this lockdown goes on the worse it gets we are now losing people with non covid health issues and childcare issues. despite full home working .

pjohnson · 19-05-2020 08:36AM

growleaves wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52702048?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020200518%20%20Facebook%20%20SM+CID_c23d298cb2f5f9f63e0f9c9358e149e0

growleaves wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/16/uk-lockdown-causing-serious-mental-illness-in-first-time-patients

To use yesterdays of repeated line when UK links were provided.

What about Irish sources?

stephenjmcd · 19-05-2020 08:38AM

Dr Ronan Glynn on morning Ireland saying routine breast check screen etc suspended still and can't give a date as to when it restarts, says that the aim of the screening is to pick up asymptomatic cases and that anyone concerned should visit their GP as its not safe to resume screening.

I'm sorry but that's a disgrace, early diagnosis in cancer and other diseases is crucial to treatment. It's awful to say but I fear a spike in the coming year from diseases that could have been prevented with early treatment such as some cancers.

19-05-2020 08:44AM

Yesterday I heard two advertisements on Radio

1. The weather is good, the sun is shining, we’re all out walking , “ please put on sunscreen we’re all in this together “

2. We’re all at home, we’re all eating more “please just eat 3 meals a day we’re all in this together”

“Please stay the course”
............brought to you by the Government of Ireland .

This country is beginning to sound more like a dictatorship every day, there is an element of control about these. I know the are public health announcements but it’s nobody’s business how much anyone eats . We’re not babies, if the weather is warm we know to put on sunscreen. We don’t need our government to give a list of instructions every day !

On another note a woman was interviewed at a garden centre on the News yesterday, saying it’s nice to get out but “we’re doing what we’re told”! Another man coming out of Woodies saying this queueing will be part of life for YEARS ! A lot of people seem to need hand holding and instructions on everything. Fear, fear, fear !

VonLuck · 19-05-2020 08:46AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yesterday I heard two advertisements on Radio

1. The weather is good, the sun is shining, we’re all out walking , “ please put on sunscreen we’re all in this together “

2. We’re all at home, we’re all eating more “please just eat 3 meals a day we’re all in this together”

“Please stay the course”
............brought to you by the Government of Ireland .

This country is beginning to sound more like a dictatorship every day, there is an element of control about these. I know the are public health announcements but it’s nobody’s business how much anyone eats . We’re not babies, if the weather is warm we know to put on sunscreen. We don’t need our government to give a list of instructions every day !

On another note a woman was interviewed at a garden centre on the News yesterday, saying it’s nice to get out but “we’re doing what we’re told”! Another man coming out of Woodies saying this queueing will be part of life for YEARS ! A lot of people seem to need hand holding and instructions on everything. Fear, fear, fear !

How dare the government give medical advice. Outrageous.

19-05-2020 08:52AM

VonLuck wrote: »

How dare the government give medical advice. Outrageous.

I’d rely on my doctor to give me medical advice . Not the Government.

(Since when did we need to be told that eating more puts on weight? )

Wibbs · 19-05-2020 08:54AM

VonLuck wrote: »

How dare the government give medical advice. Outrageous.

Indeed. Never mind the Irish government is so far from a "dictatorship" as you can get. We see this during this covid crisis. Their general way of responding has been either delayed, non existent, or half hearted.

As for the medical advice. Clearly someone needs to tell us to ease up on stuffing our faces as Irish men and women are among the fattest in Europe and we have over 10,000 people per annum come down with skin cancers.

namloc1980 · 19-05-2020 08:57AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’d rely on my doctor to give me medical advice . Not the Government.

(Since when did we need to be told that eating more puts on weight? )

Since a large portion of the population became obese and lost self control.

stephenjmcd · 19-05-2020 08:57AM

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1262650283383050241?s=19

Make of this what you will

manniot2 · 19-05-2020 09:00AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Dr Ronan Glynn on morning Ireland saying routine breast check screen etc suspended still and can't give a date as to when it restarts, says that the aim of the screening is to pick up asymptomatic cases and that anyone concerned should visit their GP as its not safe to resume screening.

I'm sorry but that's a disgrace, early diagnosis in cancer and other diseases is crucial to treatment. It's awful to say but I fear a spike in the coming year from diseases that could have been prevented with early treatment such as some cancers.

Absolutely agree, complete disgrace. Why is this not picked up by the media?

stephenjmcd · 19-05-2020 09:02AM

manniot2 wrote: »

Absolutely agree, complete disgrace. Why is this not picked up by the media?

Just for anyone who hasn't heard it this is the interview piece where screening services are mentioned

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1262650823500345344?s=19

Stark · 19-05-2020 09:03AM

VonLuck wrote: »

How dare the government give medical advice. Outrageous.

Wouldn't call it outrageous but it is as a friend of mine put it, it's real "fighting the last war" stuff. They don't know what they're doing in this Covid battle so they're doubling down on what they do know, hence all the anti-alcohol/obesity/skin cancer messages etc.

19-05-2020 09:04AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Since a large portion of the population became obese and lost self control.

I know, I can see that , but surely the obese were there for the last 10 years if not more ?
And are yet more public service announcements going to stop that cohort from having another doughnut ? Don’t this so.

By the way I’m not obese, 5’9” and 10.5 stone I’ve actually lost weight as I’m exercising far more........but I’m really really weary of all this Government “advice” and bullet pointed announcements every day . They’re on every station too so it’s hard to avoid.

prunudo · 19-05-2020 09:04AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1262650283383050241?s=19

Make of this what you will

And yet they didn't learn anything with regards how to increase testing and how to deal with vulnerable groups.

Stormyteacup · 19-05-2020 09:06AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

It is an easy place for Tony and co to be in as they will never be accountable for their actions.

They will say that they saved lives with their actions (any mistakes such as in nursing homes will be at the door of the HSE).

They will make the point in hindsight that they are asked to advise and Government makes the decisions (perhaps on paper).

They will distance themselves from the economic arguments (we saved lives).

They will point to utterances that the hospitals were open for other procedures (the reality is different).
.

I fear you’re right.

Re Dail Committee, spin has begun already. Jim Breslin, Sec Gen of Department of health telling media that the ‘acute’ phase of pandemic will last years. Up there with any other scare-mongering and depressing headline so far. ‘Acutr’

He and Reid and Holohan will bring their questionable data that their modelling software spat out to ‘prove’ that only for their advice 39,000 would have died of Covid by now.

They do seem untouchable now - any mistakes will be blamed on HSE (care homes) and government (borders).

But good at least they are being called to account even if it may be a pointless exercise. Will watch with interest, hope they will be pressed to explain themselves.

Stark · 19-05-2020 09:09AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

He and Reid and Holohan will bring their questionable data that their modelling software spat out to ‘prove’ that only for their advice 39,000 would have died of Covid by now.

Hasn't even been that many in Spain, Italy, France, UK, countries with approx 10 times the population of Ireland and late lockdowns.

ednwireland · 19-05-2020 09:10AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Dr Ronan Glynn on morning Ireland saying routine breast check screen etc suspended still and can't give a date as to when it restarts, says that the aim of the screening is to pick up asymptomatic cases and that anyone concerned should visit their GP as its not safe to resume screening.

I'm sorry but that's a disgrace, early diagnosis in cancer and other diseases is crucial to treatment. It's awful to say but I fear a spike in the coming year from diseases that could have been prevented with early treatment such as some cancers.

it is a total disgrace, heard about someone who was diagnosed with cance rtwo months ago and hasnt had any contact since forem the HSE, but then the hse seem good at ignoring cancer

Ulysses Gaze · 19-05-2020 09:16AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. Never mind the Irish government is so far from a "dictatorship" as you can get. We see this during this covid crisis. Their general way of responding has been either delayed, non existent, or half hearted.

As for the medical advice. Clearly someone needs to tell us to ease up on stuffing our faces as Irish men and women are among the fattest in Europe and we have over 10,000 people per annum come down with skin cancers.

That would require a sense of self responsibility, Wibbs. Something Irish people ain't the best at.

All for screaming about "My Rights!!" or "I'm entitled to", not so much in taking some responsibility.

And then turn around and blame "The Government." when things go tits up as a result.

Hurrache · 19-05-2020 09:19AM

snowcat wrote: »

Hopefully we have learned from this mess and another lockdown is never imposed.

The 2 parts of your statement are mutually exclusive.

Based on this thread the last few days the only thing that surprises me is that Gemma O'Doherty didn't manifest more votes than she did.

LiquidZeb · 19-05-2020 09:19AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

That would require a sense of self responsibility, Wibbs. Something Irish people ain't the best at.

All for screaming about "My Rights!!", not so much in taking some responsibility.

And then turn around and blame "The Government." when things go tits up as a result.

And you've spoken to every Irish person to come to that conclusion? Amazing stuff. Or maybe you're just making sweeping statements with nothing to back them up other than your own sense of superiority.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings