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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #4262
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Like I said, I know very little.of procurement outside medications but we are finding it difficult to source PPE. I don't care about myself really, it's the patients I'm.concerned for. Maybe it is the Hoses fault but people.bulk ordering PPE for a hair cut months in advance of opening makes it difficult to treat patients safely now

    Do you have a source to show that people are bulk ordering PPE?

    If you don’t know how sourcing works within your own organisation, I’m surprised you know so much about how hairdressers source or anyone else PPE.


  • #4263
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Like I said, I know very little.of procurement outside medications but we are finding it difficult to source PPE. I don't care about myself really, it's the patients I'm.concerned for. Maybe it is the Hoses fault but people.bulk ordering PPE for a hair cut months in advance of opening makes it difficult to treat patients safely now

    Are you attacking business owners who were trying to be responsible citizens by ordering protective equipment to provide their service, their income, put food on their & their families table? There was no direction / law issued saying they could not source these supplies and order them. They had no idea when they could / could not reopen. Fair play to them for trying to prepare to reopen rather than than do nothing brigade on here that wants to keep us locked up indefinitely.
    Perhaps your organisation should show some entrepreneurial skills and do a better job sourcing PPE. Why are you not getting any from the frequent Aer Lingus flights to China? There should be more in supply considering hospitals are quieter, Covid wards in Cork are being closed and infection rates are dropping.


  • #4264
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Are you attacking business owners who were trying to be responsible citizens by ordering protective equipment to provide their service, their income, put food on their & their families table? There was no direction / law issued saying they could not source these supplies and order them. They had no idea when they could / could not reopen. Fair play to them for trying to prepare to reopen rather than than do nothing brigade on here that wants to keep us locked up indefinitely.
    Perhaps your organisation should show some entrepreneurial skills and do a better job sourcing PPE. Why are you not getting any from the frequent Aer Lingus flights to China? There should be more in supply considering hospitals are quieter, Covid wards in Cork are being closed and infection rates are dropping.

    I'm a severe critic of the HSE, but I can assure you that there is no shortage of masks in our hospitals.


  • #4265
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Might ne already said earlier but is there a time set aside for over 70s at woodies tomorrow. I'm planning to get there for 8 but won't if it is reserved for over 70s. Can't wait to get back to some normality tomorrow. Might even take a wee spin afterwards. Nice to be able to get out and about again


  • #4266
    GocRh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭GocRh


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Like I said, I know very little.of procurement outside medications but we are finding it difficult to source PPE. I don't care about myself really, it's the patients I'm.concerned for. Maybe it is the Hoses fault but people.bulk ordering PPE for a hair cut months in advance of opening makes it difficult to treat patients safely now


    Most countries in Europe require face masks to be used in closed public spaces, and are re-opening their economies much faster than us, and they all seem to have managed to procure masks.


    I work with colleagues based in Portugal. Masks can be found in every supermarket and pharmacy, cost 1 EUR or less, and have been available for weeks now.


    If countries like Portugal, with a population twice the size of Ireland and a much lower GDP per capita managed to source masks, why can't we?


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  • #4267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Patient safety is number one. I can only speak about how I have to reuse masks due to supply issues. In my opinion (maybe not others), patient safety is ranked a lot higher than getting a haircut.


  • #4268
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,072 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    As Phase 1 begins tomorrow, what exactly is opened back up as some of what is listed have not been closed afaik and 5km for exercise now
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #4269
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Patient safety is number one. I can only speak about how I have to reuse masks due to supply issues. In my opinion (maybe not others), patient safety is ranked a lot higher than getting a haircut.

    In my opinion, you are being wilfully obtuse now because not one person has said getting a haircut is more important than patient safety. Not one.

    But please, feel free to argue against a point that absolutely no one is making while completely misrepresenting the facts.


  • #4270
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    In my opinion, you are being wilfully obtuse now because not one person has said getting a haircut is more important than patient safety. Not one.

    But please, feel free to argue against a point that absolutely no one is making while completely misrepresenting the facts.

    So you agree that appropriate PPE should be earmarked for HCPs to protect patients? I guess we broadly agree then


  • #4271
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    GocRh wrote: »
    Most countries in Europe require face masks to be used in closed public spaces, and are re-opening their economies much faster than us, and they all seem to have managed to procure masks.


    I work with colleagues based in Portugal. Masks can be found in every supermarket and pharmacy, cost 1 EUR or less, and have been available for weeks now.


    If countries like Portugal, with a population twice the size of Ireland and a much lower GDP per capita managed to source masks, why can't we?

    Masks are in plentiful supply here

    Loads of shops have them now, Lidl have massive stock, limitless places online

    If you want a mask they are here


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  • #4272
    Carol25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Carol25


    I’m just reading Luke O’Neil’s article in the Irish Independent and took this direct quote from the article:

    ‘The Irish Government is taking things cautiously, most likely because we are not where we want to be with testing, tracing and isolating. As well as protecting the vulnerable, this has to be the number one priority right now’.

    We’ve been closed since March...and they still have not the strictures in place that we need re testing. There needs to be more transparency with the public on what exactly is going on behind the scenes.
    This is costing lives, billions of Euros and thousands of jobs, the stakes could not be higher and the media’s incompetence in publishing the relevant information has been very poor during this crisis.


  • #4273
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So you agree that appropriate PPE should be earmarked for HCPs to protect patients? I guess we broadly agree then

    Are you capable of making a point without resorting to strawman arguments and moving the goalposts?

    So you acknowledge that these businesses were under the impression they would be permitted to resume trading after May 5th and planned accordingly?
    You surely have no issue with it then, we can agree that it’s just common sense and that the average business owner bears no responsibility for the ineptitude of your employer.


  • #4274
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So you agree that appropriate PPE should be earmarked for HCPs to protect patients? I guess we broadly agree then

    So the hse should buy them then? What are they waiting for? The magic mask fairy to deliver them without them lifting a finger? Its not rocket science. If there are masks available for the general public to purchase then there is no excuse for the HSE to be under supplied is there? And if they are then the blame lies solely on those responsible for sourcing these supplies


  • #4275
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Patient safety is number one. I can only speak about how I have to reuse masks due to supply issues. In my opinion (maybe not others), patient safety is ranked a lot higher than getting a haircut.

    Yesterday Aer Lingus carried its 100th load from China,1300 tonnes of PPE and you are saying you have to reuse masks,what are the HSE doing with it all?

    https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/1261734709991813122


  • #4276
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    There is no shortage of PPE , there was no 300% increase in patients anywhere
    Go figure


  • #4277
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    There is no shortage of PPE , there was no 300% increase in patients anywhere
    Go figure

    I can only say what I seen in the particular hospital.i work in over the weekend. There can be delays in reporting to HSE. Especially at weekends.


  • #4278
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can only say what I seen in the particular hospital.i work in over the weekend. There can be delays in reporting to HSE. Especially at weekends.

    What you saw.


  • #4279
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,875 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Literally nobody I know well has contracted COVID 19 so far. This is great because 2 months ago, I thought a lot of people I know (myself included) would have had it by now. Long may it last.

    The only person I know (knew) who had it, he tested positive postmortem after a terrible death from cancer. The week he died, his consultant told him and the family that he had days left and the cancer had metastasised beyond control or remission. Now his family are undergoing legal action to have 'COVID 19' removed as the official cause of his death, because well, he died from cancer.

    This happened weeks ago, and ever since then (and the CMO's clarification on how they are recording COVID deaths and what constitutes one) I have been taking those daily death numbers with a pinch of salt. I like that we have recorded and reported our COVID 19 deaths more thoroughly than the UK, but I feel with the likes of the above we have gone overboard in the opposite direction.

    That is one patient.
    If you want balance there are few more who died of an unexpectedly vicious pneumonia early / mid February but were never tested and weren't classified as Covid.


  • #4280
    brokensoul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 932 ✭✭✭brokensoul


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can only say what I seen in the particular hospital.i work in over the weekend. There can be delays in reporting to HSE. Especially at weekends.

    A 300% increase from what to what though?

    In the absence of numbers that information doesn't really mean anything.


  • #4281
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    If your main concern is patient safety then just buy your own and take them to work if the HSE really are so inept. Plenty available. Unless you really just want to get a dig in a hairdressers for some weird reason. In that case, carry on!

    When you are work through your lunch hour reviewing patients, sorting outpatients, attending MDTs. You don't tend to have time to go to community pharmacies to buy masks. Strangely, most places are closed when I get out of work.


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  • #4282
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Carol25 wrote: »
    I’m just reading Luke O’Neil’s article in the Irish Independent and took this direct quote from the article:

    ‘The Irish Government is taking things cautiously, most likely because we are not where we want to be with testing, tracing and isolating. As well as protecting the vulnerable, this has to be the number one priority right now’.

    We’ve been closed since March...and they still have not the strictures in place that we need re testing. There needs to be more transparency with the public on what exactly is going on behind the scenes.
    This is costing lives, billions of Euros and thousands of jobs, the stakes could not be higher and the media’s incompetence in publishing the relevant information has been very poor during this crisis.

    Independent is a trash negative bad journalists paper.

    Testing is getting faster, brother got tested on Thursday and result on Friday. That is good.


  • #4283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    That is one patient.
    If you want balance there are few more who died of an unexpectedly vicious pneumonia early / mid February but were never tested and weren't classified as Covid.

    What's your point? That these people died from Covid 19 and I should have known that while posting my own anecdotal account?

    Whether people choose to believe what I posted is one thing, but I presented a case where there was a real human and family. You are whatabouting now about deaths in February which were never tested and may or may not have been related to Covid 19.

    It doesn't at all detract from my point that the reported death numbers are not crystal clear. If anything, it supports it.


  • #4284
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Carol25 wrote: »
    We’ve been closed since March...and they still have not the strictures in place that we need re testing.

    Awful healthcare IT + years of under investment IMO.
    Reliance on manual processes, form filling etc that should have been done away with long ago.
    I saw lack of a patient identifier across hospital system was mentioned in an IT article.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/technical-issues-and-errors-slowing-down-covid-19-testing-and-tracing-in-ireland-1.4251980
    Ireland’s testing and tracing system for Covid-19 has been slowed by a range of technical issues, including data entry errors, a lack of automation and systems that cannot interact with each other.

    These issues, including the absence of unique patient identifiers and a system for laboratory information management, have pushed the timeframe for testing and tracing beyond expert recommendations.

    Of course Ireland also has no citizen/resident ID system in place either as that would be "big brother gone mad" or whatever.
    It is hard if not impossible to fix these issues completely in 8 weeks no matter how much money and people you throw at it but they seem to be getting on top of the problems to some extent (better than in March anyway). Efficiency + effectiveness of the whole testing/tracing/quarantine system obviously will affect ability to respond to any new outbreak of cases IMO and how quickly restrictions can be eased.


  • #4285
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    http://medpharm.ie/why-hospital-pharmacy-jobs-are-increasing-more-in-ireland-than-ever/

    Maybe this will help? Don't even know what a PO is?
    Give you a taste of what a hospital pharmacist does.

    Thanks for link, does look an interesting job, pay is good

    You kind of proved my point on confusion

    78 hospital pharmacists in Ireland vs 2000 or so community pharmacists, its not common.I honestly didn't think we had them here

    PO, purchase order

    Who purchases the medication/medical supplies for a hospital?


  • #4286
    SketchyPrince
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 67 ✭✭SketchyPrince


    Hi lads, going to preface this by saying I'm not trying to go outside of restrictions and whatnot.

    Just wondering what's the story with being turned away at checkpoints nowadays - is there a punishment now (aside from when having a load of people in a car)?

    Many thanks.


  • #4287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    Thanks for link, does look an interesting job, pay is good

    You kind of proved my point on confusion

    78 hospital pharmacists in Ireland vs 2000 or so community pharmacists, its not common.I honestly didn't think we had them here

    PO, purchase order

    Who purchases the medication/medical supplies for a hospital?
    Pharmacy procurement, I work in a more clinical area.

    The 78 Vs 2000 in that article refers to pharmacies rather than pharmacists by the way.


  • #4288
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Pharmacy procurement, I work in a more clinical area.

    Cool

    Get you


  • #4289
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,875 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What's your point? That these people died from Covid 19 and I should have known that while posting my own anecdotal account?

    Whether people choose to believe what I posted is one thing, but I presented a case where there was a real human and family. You are whatabouting now about deaths in February which were never tested and may or may not have been related to Covid 19.

    It doesn't at all detract from my point that the reported death numbers are not crystal clear. If anything, it supports it.

    It does , crystal clear in both directions , that's my point ! I never said I didn't believe your personal anecdote , but was showing the case for the other side of the argument.
    And just to make it even clearer , all of these borderline cases are being reviewed , that was what I was saying
    Can you be a little more polite now please, next time you answer. I wasn't rude to you .

    Too much angry stuff going on in this thread. Attacking posters because you hold a different viewpoint is not going to lead to any discussion or debate
    I know people are upset and tense but some of this is beyond unreasonable, come on .


  • #4290
    croker99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 ✭croker99


    Can you go to one of the shops opening tomorrow if they are outside 5km from your home?


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  • #4291
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    croker99 wrote: »
    Can you go to one of the shops opening tomorrow if they are outside 5km from your home?

    As far as I know yes. 5km is only for exercise


This discussion has been closed.
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