Relaxation of restrictions Part II

gozunda · 06-05-2020 03:51PM

partyguinness wrote: »

The old vote. The young tweet.
You assume everyone has a garden?

Nope. You must have missed this bit.

And no Kids were not "bunkered" for two months. Kids could go out and exercise with their parents etc and where possible play in their garden etc. They still can.

The point is kids were not "bunkered" as claimed.

Painting the current pandemic as a conflict of interests of the selfish old and the powerless youth is absolute rubbish and helps nothing.

Tommybojangles · 06-05-2020 03:54PM

is_that_so wrote: »

What's interesting in this is how the public or some of the public are more clued into what's going on than most politicians. I find some of the contributions and lack of knowledge as bad as the journalists in the daily briefings!

What's interesting is how the public or some of the public think they're more clued in than most politicians

peasant · 06-05-2020 03:57PM

An interesting bit of news there ...

Pharmacies, which at no point were affected by the lockdown and always open for business are in financial trouble:

Retail sales are down 36%
One in five pharmacies have laid off staff while a further 38% will do so in the next three months
Greatest costs relate to social distancing with over two thirds (68%) installing new counter screens to protect patients and staff
25% of surveyed pharmacies had reached their credit limit with medicine wholesalers
30% of respondents indicated that they had difficulty in ordering key medicines for patients due to reaching their credit limit.

I would have thought they are doing better than ever, but there you go...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/covid-19-pharmacies-hit-with-surging-costs-lay-off-staff-997888.html

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 04:00PM

Tommybojangles wrote: »

What's interesting is how the public or some of the public think they're more clued in than most politicians

Oh they will come good again and have detailed knowledge of issues but for now we're on par in that respect. The need for a committee aside, the answers to the majority of their questions have been on various media feeds or even in public briefings.

the kelt · 06-05-2020 04:02PM

peasant wrote: »

An interesting bit of news there ...

Pharmacies, which at no point were affected by the lockdown and always open for business are in financial trouble:

I would have thought they are doing better than ever, but there you go...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/covid-19-pharmacies-hit-with-surging-costs-lay-off-staff-997888.html

It stands to reason when you think about it.

Go into any mid size or large pharmacy and only a small portion of the footprint of the store is set aside for actual over the counter medicines.

Their main footfall and profits come from everything else in the store and people arent out and about buying because well they cant.

When you think of the sheer range of products available in modern pharmacies they are hugely reliant on footfall. With the upsurge of online shopping etc most people are just getting stuff there they might have gotten in their pharmacy, deodorants etc.

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 04:03PM

Great news from Germany, not lockdown related but more of covid19 related

"
Germany is carrying out Europe’s first large-scale coronavirus antibody testing to help assess infection rates and monitor the spread of the virus.

One doctor involved in testing for antibodies is Ulrike Leimer-Lipke.

For these antibodies test to make sense, you must have had symptoms about four weeks beforehand," she explained. "Antibodies take a relatively long time to appear. If you only had symptoms last week, you wouldn't have antibodies by now.

We know that, especially in Germany, a lot of people already had it. And it is also very important for them, especially if they have a grandmother, mother or father whom they look after, to know whether they are already immune."

Last point is spot on. That is the way forward, according to German doctors anyways. I trust German cars, I ll trust their doctors too. Committed.

Penfailed · 06-05-2020 04:03PM

hopalongcass wrote: »

If you are under the age of 30 i think you can get a pass for being naive and not having seen the full effects of the last bailout,if you are 40 and above you are a shill plain and simple life is going good for you,so you are oblivious to the suffering that was on this island this last 10 years and are cheering on for a doubling down of the last one.

You can be proud to have sold your Irish brothers and sisters down the river all you want,i for one am not proud of what went on here and is being done again,even though i had no part in it.

You may or may not had a part in the last one but you are playing your part in this one,so claim all the Irishness you want while you are condemning our future generations to debt slavery,but i know who the real Irish are.

Hahaha!

He's right about NZ BTW.

06-05-2020 04:09PM

hopalongcass wrote: »

If you are under the age of 30 i think you can get a pass for being naive and not having seen the full effects of the last bailout,if you are 40 and above you are a shill plain and simple life is going good for you,so you are oblivious to the suffering that was on this island this last 10 years and are cheering on for a doubling down of the last one.

You can be proud to have sold your Irish brothers and sisters down the river all you want,i for one am not proud of what went on here and is being done again,even though i had no part in it.

You may or may not had a part in the last one but you are playing your part in this one,so claim all the Irishness you want while you are condemning our future generations to debt slavery,but i know who the real Irish are.

Tell me, what do you understand a shill to be, because I have no link or relationship, personal, professional or otherwise with any organisation in individuals you seem to suggest I am a shill for. I formulate my own opinion on what I see, read and listen to.
And my view is the the recovery from this should see a fundamental reorganisation in the global monetary system more radical than the abandonment of the gold standard and the acceptance that debt on a sovereign level is not a negative but the fundamental underpinning of a countries ability to formulate policy and look after its citizens. Only way out of this from an economic standpoint is to spend, and as long as we can maintain a productive workforce and economy, the level of debt will never matter as we can just refinance ad infinitum (print more money). ECB have already started this with 750bn at a negative rate.
Also, as much as we hate bankers, the only way to adequately ensure this liquidity gets distributed to those who need it is through a functional and well regulated banking system

FishOnABike · 06-05-2020 04:11PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is crazy stuff, you keep talking about an island that has following as of 5th May
"
Hokkaido recorded 31 new infection cases, a level that has remained constant in recent days. Of those cases, Sapporo, Hokkaido's capital, marked a record high 29 new cases in a single day. Total deaths in the northernmost main island reached 43"

Their total deaths is 43. They clearly want to shut down 3 4 5 times to avoid 2 people dying. Clearly 0 risk appetite. You can not do this on a country level friend. regardless of how much land they have lol.

As opposed to a country like New Zealand ...

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Minister for finance says govt. strategy will help Ireland avoid 2nd wave, in response to NZ PM saying Ireland is very slow.

The New Zealand which has had less than 1500 cases, 21 deaths, 151 currently active cases ( as of 06 May), and implemented one of the world's strictest lockdowns with all borders and entry ports closed to all non-residents at 11:59 pm on 19 March 2020, with returning citizens and residents being required to self-isolate.

The New Zealand whose prime minister has said "it will be weeks before movement restrictions lifted and some could be reintroduced" and that “No one wants a second wave in New Zealand and we must guard against that,”

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ahh the dreaded 2nd wave applicable to Ireland only.

Ahh, the New Zealand that has adopted a similar multi stage approach as us but with two weeks between stages.

The New Zealand whose current level limits people to local travel and keep malls, pubs, hairdressers and other businesses closed and will last for at least another two weeks with any step down to Level 2 depending on a review of the situation at May 11th. It was also possible some restrictions could be reintroduced and there was no immediate timetable for subsequent steps down to Level 1. That New Zealand?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/coronavirus-new-zealanders-queue-for-coffee-and-return-to-work-as-lockdown-eases-1.4239813?mode=amp

With a higher infection rate before restrictions were implemented and current higher number of active cases, the concerns of a second wave would be higher for Ireland if restrictions were lifted too quickly.

We can act in haste and repent at leisure or learn from Hakkido's error, monitor the situation as our own and other countries restrictions are gradually lifted, do things once and do things properly or we can risk regression into repeated lockdowns which will cripple any business.

06-05-2020 04:14PM

peasant wrote: »

An interesting bit of news there ...

Pharmacies, which at no point were affected by the lockdown and always open for business are in financial trouble:

I would have thought they are doing better than ever, but there you go...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/covid-19-pharmacies-hit-with-surging-costs-lay-off-staff-997888.html

A large part of a Pharmacies revenue would be discretionary spending on Beauty products etc which is possible impacted massively by these, even insofar as whereas previously people may have purchased sunscreen etc. in a Pharmacy, they are now just being integrated into the tesco shop

Naos · 06-05-2020 04:18PM

AdamD wrote: »

This really is the hottest of takes. Like if you thought about this for about 8 seconds it would be pretty obvious why you are seeing more people running and cycling.

Gyms are closed
Sports are off, so that's not training and no matches. Do you realise how many people in this country play sports? You are taking them out of that and most will replace it with going for a run. Of course there will be more people running in parks and cyclying.

I've thought about it for 8 seconds and without being too blunt, there's clearly a lot of people out & about who are not regular gym goers or sportspeople of any kind.

People are clearly just getting up & about more, spending less time in pubs/restaurants etc and getting in some exercise - fair play to them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52535044

One of the intriguing observations during the pandemic has been the marked reduction in patients coming to hospital with acute heart attacks or strokes.

Our initial worry was that people were frightened to come in when they needed to - suffering their symptoms at home rather than risking getting infected in hospital. This may still turn out to be the case, but heart attacks and strokes are the sort of episodes in which you would expect patients to seek help.

Fitbit has found that during lockdown average resting heart rates have fallen.

While step counts have also fallen, the number of active minutes has actually gone up - people have swapped desk-based routines for more mobile routines at home.

Sleep duration has also increased with people going to bed earlier than normal and sleeping longer

And seeing as there's an obsession with Sweden here:

The population of Sweden, a country that did not have a shelter-in-place lockdown enforced, did not experience resting heart rate improvements.

06-05-2020 04:18PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Great news from Germany, not lockdown related but more of covid19 related

"
Germany is carrying out Europe’s first large-scale coronavirus antibody testing to help assess infection rates and monitor the spread of the virus.

One doctor involved in testing for antibodies is Ulrike Leimer-Lipke.

For these antibodies test to make sense, you must have had symptoms about four weeks beforehand," she explained. "Antibodies take a relatively long time to appear. If you only had symptoms last week, you wouldn't have antibodies by now.

We know that, especially in Germany, a lot of people already had it. And it is also very important for them, especially if they have a grandmother, mother or father whom they look after, to know whether they are already immune."

Last point is spot on. That is the way forward, according to German doctors anyways. I trust German cars, I ll trust their doctors too. Committed.

You obviously don't remember dieselgate.

partyguinness · 06-05-2020 04:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And proud of it too, Jesus!

And why wouldn't I be?

Just because a few Holy Mary's got a basic lessen in law and economic theory which they did not like I should all of a sudden back track? That says more about you than me with your sheep mentality.

I stand by my convictions.

easypazz · 06-05-2020 04:21PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Great news from Germany, not lockdown related but more of covid19 related

"
Germany is carrying out Europe’s first large-scale coronavirus antibody testing to help assess infection rates and monitor the spread of the virus.

One doctor involved in testing for antibodies is Ulrike Leimer-Lipke.

For these antibodies test to make sense, you must have had symptoms about four weeks beforehand," she explained. "Antibodies take a relatively long time to appear. If you only had symptoms last week, you wouldn't have antibodies by now.

We know that, especially in Germany, a lot of people already had it. And it is also very important for them, especially if they have a grandmother, mother or father whom they look after, to know whether they are already immune."

Last point is spot on. That is the way forward, according to German doctors anyways. I trust German cars, I ll trust their doctors too. Committed.

Isn't there some lad on here every hour saying about no herd immunity and its out of control in Sweden etc.

And all the experts have debunked herd immunity blah blah blah

normanoffside · 06-05-2020 04:28PM

peasant wrote: »

An interesting bit of news there ...

Pharmacies, which at no point were affected by the lockdown and always open for business are in financial trouble:

I would have thought they are doing better than ever, but there you go...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/covid-19-pharmacies-hit-with-surging-costs-lay-off-staff-997888.html

I would presume it's a result of them having no prescriptions to give out seeing as nobody has been able to visit their GP.

06-05-2020 04:31PM

partyguinness wrote: »

And why wouldn't I be?

Just because a few Holy Mary's got a basic lessen in law and economic theory which they did not like I should all of a sudden back track? That says more about you than me with your sheep mentality.

I stand by my convictions.

Long outdated economic theory.

hmmm · 06-05-2020 04:39PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Put yourself in shoes of an 85 year old granddad with 3 grandchildren, he cant hug them now according to govt guidance, there is no indication when he can hug them, and if he asks - he is going to be told "wait for vaccine". This is seriously depressing for any individual. Regardless if they are in good health or bad health.

Your concern for the elderly is touching, but is in stark contrast to your liking a post about reopening where we are told the elderly and sick "are well beyond their economic use". So maybe spare us the heart strings.

JMNolan · 06-05-2020 04:48PM

I actually don't mind too much that we may have over reacted. But

1) I'm not sure we did. Italians wandering around Dublin on the 7th March suggests we didn't over react
2) Why do we need to double down on an exit plan like no other in the world?

(and of course masks, why no masks?)

pjohnson · 06-05-2020 04:49PM

partyguinness wrote: »

And why wouldn't I be?

Just because a few Holy Mary's got a basic lessen in law and economic theory which they did not like I should all of a sudden back track? That says more about you than me with your sheep mentality.

I stand by my convictions.

Ah the "sheep" card. The ultimate trick to refute any modern science or education.

Honourable mention to the "old vote young tweet" line regularly used pre election to guarantee SF wouldnt get a significant vote. And we saw how that turned out.

boring accountant · 06-05-2020 04:51PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah but sure some people here believe you should just let nature takes its course with the elderly and sick who are of no longer of economic use, or was that just you?

Nature was always going to take its course. Nature is still taking its course even with the lockdown in place. Shutting down businesses is a massively disproportionate infringement on our rights compared to the dangers posed. The lockdown/cocooning should be made voluntary. Then all but the most shrill authoritarians will get what they want.

partyguinness · 06-05-2020 04:51PM

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. You must have missed this bit.

The point is kids were not "bunkered" as claimed.

Painting the current pandemic as a conflict of interests of the selfish old and the powerless youth is absolute rubbish and helps nothing.

The general populace are going to start getting **** sick of the 'lock down' and it will breakdown which is why Governments are under pressure to get an exit plan in place asap. The goodwill and patience with regard wrapping up the elderly and venerable will only stretch so far. Policy makers know this too.

It is going to turn into a 'conflict' (in the very mild figurative sense of the word) - the seeds and grumblings have already started in several countries but perhaps you do not see it yet.

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 04:52PM

hmmm wrote: »

Your concern for the elderly is touching, but is in stark contrast to your liking a post about reopening where we are told the elderly and sick "are well beyond their economic use". So maybe spare us the heart strings.

If I was 85 years old, I would completely disregard any medical or scientific advice or Imperial college models and hug my grandchildren. It is called human nature. I appreciate not everyone is like me, but I'd say good chunk of people would be.

It seems like in the last 4 months we forgot what human nature is, we think that cocooning is a normal thing. going into isolation is normal. Doing your best to avoid other human being other than the one you live with is normal. Each to its own.

partyguinness · 06-05-2020 04:56PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah the "sheep" card. The ultimate trick to refute any modern science or education.

Honourable mention to the "old vote young tweet" line regularly used pre election to guarantee SF wouldnt get a significant vote. And we saw how that turned out.

Okay I have no idea what you are going on about as it is a rather confused post but kudos for shoehorning SF into the debate.

hopalongcass · 06-05-2020 04:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tell me, what do you understand a shill to be, because I have no link or relationship, personal, professional or otherwise with any organisation in individuals you seem to suggest I am a shill for. I formulate my own opinion on what I see, read and listen to.
And my view is the the recovery from this should see a fundamental reorganisation in the global monetary system more radical than the abandonment of the gold standard and the acceptance that debt on a sovereign level is not a negative but the fundamental underpinning of a countries ability to formulate policy and look after its citizens. Only way out of this from an economic standpoint is to spend, and as long as we can maintain a productive workforce and economy, the level of debt will never matter as we can just refinance ad infinitum (print more money). ECB have already started this with 750bn at a negative rate.
Also, as much as we hate bankers, the only way to adequately ensure this liquidity gets distributed to those who need it is through a functional and well regulated banking system

Well i am assuming you to be reasonably intelligent,and now i noticed your profile is since 2008 so if you are of a certain age and have reasonable intelligence,how can you not have seen what this government and all previous governments in your lifetime have done?It could be simply cognitive dissonance but the absolute contempt these politicians have shown toward its own people is on a level rarely seen in the world.

I personally think losing our language leaves us with little in common patriotically speaking and half of us have secret desires to be British.While a lot of other countries have their own common language it makes them a bit more patriotic towards their brethren and don't inflict the kind of misery on their own people if they can possibly avoid it,whereas its the first option for our leaders.

While spending their way out a recession will work for Britain and America since they have plenty of their own production so while they are borrowing and spending they are buying a lot of their PPE and ventilators from companies in their respective countries thus stimulating their economies,this won't work for us we cannot even pick strawberries or manufacture face masks let alone ventilators.

We have to send hundreds and hundreds of millions to China for simple masks,i wouldn't even like to hazard a guess on how much we are paying the British and Americans for ventilators,sad fact is we are unable to produce anything at this point ,we rely on being a tax haven and manufacture practically nothing indigenously,so spending isn't helping our economy in any way.We are just building other economies on the backs of our children its shameful and anyone endorsing this as an Irish person should be ashamed.

As for printing money just i don't know if you are serious or not but you cannot just print money ad infinitum without consequences,money is just a representation of value,you can only print so much money.And even if that were true and worked Germany holds all the power in that area and they ain't coming to anyone's rescue.

pjohnson · 06-05-2020 05:01PM

partyguinness wrote: »

Okay I have no idea what you are going on about as it is a rather confused post but kudos for shoehorning SF into the debate.

Just another outdated disproven rhetoric sorry "conviction" you used. "Old vote young tweet".

partyguinness · 06-05-2020 05:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Long outdated economic theory.

LOl...just goes to show how little you know. It is thought in every university around the world to this very day.

How do you think health insurance and life assurance companies assess an individuals monthly premium? What economic model and algorithms do you think they use? Same with pensions...pension age rising you may have noticed.

People are reduced to figures and formulas based on their economic value. This clearly comes as a great shock to some people.

To an insurance company you are cheaper dead than having to fork out for medical care into your 80s and 90s.

There you go. Something new for you to think about

road_high · 06-05-2020 05:13PM

boring accountant wrote: »

Nature was always going to take its course. Nature is still taking its course even with the lockdown in place. Shutting down businesses is a massively disproportionate infringement on our rights compared to the dangers posed. The lockdown/cocooning should be made voluntary. Then all but the most shrill authoritarians will get what they want.

Yes it should be optional and would be very easy to do for those affected these days. They should count themselves lucky and let the rest of us get back to living

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 05:38PM

More good news, for us this time

"
A COVID-19 antibody test, said to be 99.8% accurate, could soon be available in Ireland.

The test has been developed by Swiss giant Roche Diagnostics and has already been approved for use in the US.

The company, which has a base in Dublin, said its Elecsys test has a specificity greater than 99.8% and sensitivity of 100% - meaning it gives no false negative results and only one in 500 false positives.

The antibody test indicates whether a patient has been exposed to the virus and recovered."

Boy i'd love this. I got to fly to Spain end of August, would be pretty handy to get such test, hopefully I've had covid and off I go enjoying beer in south of Spain without any fears of being stopped at checkpoints for mask inspection whatnot.

stephenjmcd · 06-05-2020 05:45PM

https://twitter.com/AP_Europe/status/1258068581260103680?s=19

06-05-2020 05:47PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

More good news, for us this time

"
A COVID-19 antibody test, said to be 99.8% accurate, could soon be available in Ireland.

The test has been developed by Swiss giant Roche Diagnostics and has already been approved for use in the US.

The company, which has a base in Dublin, said its Elecsys test has a specificity greater than 99.8% and sensitivity of 100% - meaning it gives no false negative results and only one in 500 false positives.

The antibody test indicates whether a patient has been exposed to the virus and recovered."

Boy i'd love this. I got to fly to Spain end of August, would be pretty handy to get such test, hopefully I've had covid and off I go enjoying beer in south of Spain without any fears of being stopped at checkpoints for mask inspection whatnot.

They also have capacity to make 100m tests per month

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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