Relaxation of restrictions Part II

CruelSummer wrote: »

The problem is it's costing us at LEAST €110 million per month of money we do not have, while all other out patient appointments and tests are suspended. This is not warranted or justified in any way shape or form, death rate from New York where the virus has run rampant is approx 0.5 - 0.75%. Time to open up and fast before we destroy our economy, health, civil liberties, mental wellbeing, and society.

We're barely out of the first wave of a pandemic where the original forecasts were that every country would see their hospitals and ICU overwhelmed.

We're still not out of the woods, and the pressure is on to relax the restrictions which have held the virus back. Many forecasters say there will be a second (and possibly further) waves over the rest of the year.

How much hospital and ICU space we will need will only become clear in hindsight. Right now I'd say most people are glad we have the spare capacity, and aren't going to argue about the cost. I'm sure the health service are trying to balance "normal" admissions versus trying to predict how many beds they need for Covid.

There's an air of unreality in this thread, as if the virus doesn't exist, or we would be happy to see it killing lots of people. We'll need to live with the virus and find ways to do things safely, not pretend it doesn't exist.

hmmm wrote: »

We're barely out of the first wave of a pandemic where the original forecasts were that every country would see their hospitals and ICU overwhelmed.

We're still not out of the woods, and the pressure is on to relax the restrictions which have held the virus back. Many forecasters say there will be a second (and possibly further) waves over the rest of the year.

How much hospital and ICU space we will need will only become clear in hindsight. Right now I'd say most people are glad we have the spare capacity, and aren't going to argue about the cost. I'm sure the health service are trying to balance "normal" admissions versus trying to predict how many beds they need for Covid.

There's an air of unreality in this thread, as if the virus doesn't exist, or we would be happy to see it killing lots of people. We'll need to live with the virus and find ways to do things safely, not pretend it doesn't exist.

How much hospital and ICU space needed should be correctly estimated by government officials. Not "hindsight". Currently these estimates are probably 80/90% incorrect.

Currently, most people may very well be happy with empty beds. When their taxes will increase and they ll go "ohh, thats not great, why did they have these empty beds for so long".

The virus exists. It has true mortality rate of 0.1-0.5%. 99% of people it has killed are over 60, and have at least 1 underlying health condition. These are facts. This doesn't justify wasting 10m per month let alone 110m.....

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

How much hospital and ICU space needed should be correctly estimated by government officials. Not "hindsight".

That's impossible with a new virus.

The virus exists. It has true mortality rate of 0.1-0.5%. 99% of people it has killed are over 60, and have at least 1 underlying health condition. These are facts.

Your definition of facts is loose. Antibody testing is suggesting perhaps 0.65% (e.g. New York numbers), but the tests are not particularly accurate at the moment. 0.65% might not sound like much, but it would mean nearly 30,000 deaths in Ireland if left loose.

There is a balance to be found, but I don't share your casual disregard for people over 60 or with underlying conditions. I think we should be trying to protect them, and I doubt you'll get much support for your views.

hmmm wrote: »

We're barely out of the first wave of a pandemic where the original forecasts were that every country would see their hospitals and ICU overwhelmed.
We're still not out of the woods, and the pressure is on to relax the restrictions which have held the virus back. Many forecasters say there will be a second (and possibly further) waves over the rest of the year.

There's an air of unreality in this thread, as if the virus doesn't exist, or we would be happy to see it killing lots of people. We'll need to live with the virus and find ways to do things safely, not pretend it doesn't exist.

So the original prediction of a "Mini-Northern Italy" were wrong, hospitals aren't overrun, private extra capacity beds are almost empty. The transmission rate in the country is down to a level somewhere like 0.5 so the virus can't spread exponentially...

The virus will be with us until a treatment or vaccine is found, so until then get out from underneath your bed and box clever, social distancing and ppe will get the wheels of the economy moving again however slowly...

hmmm wrote: »

That's impossible with a new virus.


Your definition of facts is loose. Antibody testing is suggesting perhaps 0.65% (e.g. New York numbers), but the tests are not particularly accurate at the moment. 0.65% might not sound like much, but it would mean nearly 30,000 deaths in Ireland if left loose.

There is a balance to be found, but I don't share your casual disregard for people over 60 or with underlying conditions. I think we should be trying to protect them, and I doubt you'll get much support for your views.

Ofcourse we need to protect them. We failed protecting 1300 people already.

I am not disregarding them at all, but the numbers clearly say that most deaths occur either in hospitals or nursing homes. We do not have 80% of 1300 people collected from their homes because they got corona on their most recent Aldi trip.

We need to have a clear plan of A)protecting everyone who is over 60 years of age OR people with underlying conditions that are younger than 60 and keeping the economy going and not putting people into poverty that will cause thousands of deaths 12 months from now.

To achieve A & B only possible way out of this is to tell the younger, healthier population to go to work and NOT interact with elderly (not easy, but has to be done) until a vaccine or a treatment drug has been developed (such has been developed in US already last week). Not have 150 000 + waiters, barbers, shop assistants sitting at home collecting 350 per week and paying 110m + to maintain empty hospitals for another 3 months.

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Failed politician, failed business man, and failed broadcaster. Why do we want him back?

Well we have handed complete unquestionable control to -a Dr who covered up a health scandal and refused to answer questions on it, a minister who doesnt know what the 19 in Covid 19 means and they refuse transparency from the NPHET meetings.
I think Ivan is free to ask a few questions

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Well we have handed complete unquestionable control to -a Dr who covered up a health scandal and refused to answer questions on it, a minister who doesnt know what the 19 in Covid 19 means and they refuse transparency from the NPHET meetings.
I think Ivan is free to ask a few questions

Who would you have chosen instead?

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Who would you have chosen instead?

Ive chosen to listen to Ivan Yates ask questions that deserve answers.
It doesn't matter who is control, they must be transparent with the decisions to become the most restrictive nation in Europe in spite of very low ICU stats

Penfailed wrote: »

Oh FFS! Bitch and moan that the government have shut the place down...and then bitch and moan because people took it upon themselves to shut down. Who are you going to get angry at next? Have you lobbied your TD? Have you contacted your local councillor? ...or are you just bitching and moaning on Boards? How's Leo going to know how strongly you feel about it from posts on Boards?

Grave concern for our economic future is not to be dismissed as "bitching and moaning". It's the height of common sense. Expect to see more get onto this page too as the economic damage becomes all too apparent.
Speaking as someone still on full salary and working and likely to continue as such. BTW I'm a FG voter and highly critical of his handling- there is much dissent in FG bot not very vocal for fear of being labelled "OAP Murderers" by the rabid social media mobs.

road_high wrote: »

Grave concern for our economic future is not to be dismissed as "bitching and moaning". It's the height of common sense. Expect to see more get onto this page too as the economic damage becomes all too apparent.
Speaking as someone still on full salary and working and likely to continue as such. BTW I'm a FG voter and highly critical of his handling- there is much dissent in FG bot not very vocal for fear of being labelled "OAP Murderers" by the rabid social media mobs.

Get your finger out and do something constructive rather than compare Ireland to Nazi Germany on Boards.

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Failed politician, failed business man, and failed broadcaster. Why do we want him back?

Might want to touch base with reality there Speakerboxx.

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Agreed. A guy who argues for the sake of it.

Should have stayed in Wales crying into his pints.

Its called investigate journalism. Its good for democracy. You wont find it easily anymore

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So your issue isn’t with him, it’s with the way he is operating?

As he has been in his position for some time it’s fair to say that his superiors are happy with his qualifications, experience and approach.

So is your problem with his boss then?

You have lost me, who do you think I have an issue with?