Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tenzor07 · 28-04-2020 12:48PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your not meant to be wearing masks. It's not HSE advice and gloves are completely out, keep your distance and wash your hands.
The Germans had the capacity to test 1 million cases a day going into this.

Yea sorry but that statement about not wearing masks is bo))x!

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30918-1/fulltext

Also are you making excuses for the lack of testing ability in this country? There's really no excuse!

almostover · 28-04-2020 12:49PM

Gael23 wrote: »

We were told that the R0 going below 1 was what we needed to do to get these restrictions lifted. Now the government need to keep their side of the bargain

You can't bargain with a virus! This isn't a game between the electorate and the government

omeara1113 · 28-04-2020 12:52PM

Read this on another forum I cant believe how true it is but dont worry rush the construction workers back to work "sarcasm "
There is a huge amount of shared vehicles between site workers. There is a lot of passing and sharing of tools, wheelbarrows, shovels, tape measures etc. There are a lot of shared surfaces, ladders, scaffolding rails, canteen and toilet doors. The welfare units are tiny, crammed in like sardines. Many eat in their cars, but many have no transport. Wasing the hands and using the jacks are done in tiny spaces. Believe me, site toilets are some of the most filthy places imaginable. There's the rush to the local deli counter at break or on the way in. Many jobs on sites need to be done in close proximity to others. People go to work sick on sites because there is often no sick pay plus the workers are regularly told they are disposable, if they dont show up there are others who will take their place. Sites were rife with people who were sick but keeping schtum before lockdown. Will companies invest in more tools to avoid sharing? They will in their holes. The 15 minute CIF Covid induction online, a big skite of posters plastered everywhere like miraculous medals, an update to the RAMS docs done by bosses safely at hone and off yiz go to the frontline. Let's see how many of ye are standing in 3 months

drunkmonkey · 28-04-2020 12:52PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yea sorry but that statement about not wearing masks is bo))x!

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30918-1/fulltext

Also are you making excuses for the lack of testing ability in this country? There's really no excuse!

No it's not, did you listen to the GP and doctor Cillian last night, people aren't capable of using them correctly, the German chap giving the speech saying everyone is required to wear masks touched his mask 5 times with his hands, Masks are for health care professionals who've been properly trained.
Keep your distance, wash your hands.

Speakerboxx · 28-04-2020 12:53PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Because I don’t think they will keep it

Be positive

Captain_Crash · 28-04-2020 12:55PM

Podge201 wrote: »

Spanish flu came from Spain.

Not to be pedantic, but it came from Kansas. It was named Spanish flu as it was first reported by Spanish media.

stephenjmcd · 28-04-2020 12:57PM

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Be positive

Be positive is what we were told 4 weeks ago, right another 3 weeks give us time to get the testing capacity and contact tracing up to capacity. Hasn't been done and it's still the same line coming.

I'm sorry but this whole idea of a timeline being set out that just says when the time is right is a load of crap.
People need to see dates and targets to aim for. Its possible for every other country but not here for some reason. People need a bit of hope given to them not just kicking the can down the road another 3 weeks.

boring accountant · 28-04-2020 12:58PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No it's not, did you listen to the GP and doctor Cillian last night, people aren't capable of using them correctly, the German chap giving the speech saying everyone is required to wear masks touched his mask 5 times with his hands, Masks are for health care professionals who've been properly trained.
Keep your distance, wash your hands.

This really takes the biscuit.

If the powers that be are creating policy based on the belief that you need to be a fully qualified medical professional to use a mask properly then I have no faith in their judgement.

hmmm · 28-04-2020 12:58PM

cadaliac wrote: »

Meanwhile in Ireland:
Unable to secure testing kits

Unbale to get face masks

Unable to secure correct PPE

lack of up to date trace testing (manpower?)

Lack of manpower in general??

This would be the comparison between Germany and Ireland

The entire world is scrambling for testing kits, masks, PPE. We got in early with our orders before most of them.

We have good manpower in contact tracing, and have redeployed lots of staff into it.

You're comparing us to probably the best prepared country in the world. Fair enough if that's what you think we should aspire to, but I don't remember any politician saying we should spend hundreds of millions on pandemic preparations before 2020.

Speakerboxx · 28-04-2020 12:59PM

omeara1113 wrote: »

Read this on another forum I cant believe how true it is but dont worry rush the construction workers back to work "sarcasm "
There is a huge amount of shared vehicles between site workers. There is a lot of passing and sharing of tools, wheelbarrows, shovels, tape measures etc. There are a lot of shared surfaces, ladders, scaffolding rails, canteen and toilet doors. The welfare units are tiny, crammed in like sardines. Many eat in their cars, but many have no transport. Wasing the hands and using the jacks are done in tiny spaces. Believe me, site toilets are some of the most filthy places imaginable. There's the rush to the local deli counter at break or on the way in. Many jobs on sites need to be done in close proximity to others. People go to work sick on sites because there is often no sick pay plus the workers are regularly told they are disposable, if they dont show up there are others who will take their place. Sites were rife with people who were sick but keeping schtum before lockdown. Will companies invest in more tools to avoid sharing? They will in their holes. The 15 minute CIF Covid induction online, a big skite of posters plastered everywhere like miraculous medals, an update to the RAMS docs done by bosses safely at hone and off yiz go to the frontline. Let's see how many of ye are standing in 3 months

Houses have to be build. We can't go on like this forever. Get real.

Gael23 · 28-04-2020 12:59PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Be positive is what we were told 4 weeks ago, right another 3 weeks give us time to get the testing capacity and contact tracing up to capacity. Hasn't been done and it's still the same line coming.

I'm sorry but this whole idea of a timeline being set out that just says when the time is right is a load of crap.
People need to see dates and targets to aim for. Its possible for every other country but not here for some reason. People need a bit of hope given to them not just kicking the can down the road another 3 weeks.

My thoughts exactly

Jinglejangle69 · 28-04-2020 01:00PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Be positive is what we were told 4 weeks ago, right another 3 weeks give us time to get the testing capacity and contact tracing up to capacity. Hasn't been done and it's still the same line coming.

I'm sorry but this whole idea of a timeline being set out that just says when the time is right is a load of crap.
People need to see dates and targets to aim for. Its possible for every other country but not here for some reason. People need a bit of hope given to them not just kicking the can down the road another 3 weeks.

Italy released their plan yesterday after 6 weeks of a harsher lockdown.

People need to chill and see the plan on Friday.

Lyle · 28-04-2020 01:01PM

Just on the masks debate, this is a simple visualisation from the New England Journal of Medicine on the difference it makes, just in terms of droplet expulsion from quiet/regular/loud talking.

"NEJM: Visualizing Speech Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering"
https://youtu.be/UNHgQq0BGLI

I personally have masks, have been wearing them out any time I go beyond the perimeter of the house. I get the NPHET don't trust people with them, but if you want to wear them just take responsibility for learning how at home first. I put one on and did a days work in the garden and around the house to see how it moves on my face when I move myself a certain way, and how to adjust it using only my facial muscles for when it moved around. Its very doable.

tl;dr - I don't think we'll see a mask recommendation from NPHET because they don't trust people to not be stupid. But you, yourself, can wear a mask in confidence if you just spend a few hours getting used to it at home first. If you're any way not 100% confident that you can go out and wear one and not touch your face adjusting it, then don't wear one.

Tenzor07 · 28-04-2020 01:02PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No it's not, did you listen to the GP and doctor Cillian last night, people aren't capable of using them correctly, the German chap giving the speech saying everyone is required to wear masks touched his mask 5 times with his hands, Masks are for health care professionals who've been properly trained.
Keep your distance, wash your hands.

That's no reason not to wear a mask in public!
If Germany probably the most advanced economy in Europe is dishing out €1000 fines for not wearing one in public then I will take their word over some Pd.D who thinks Irish people are too dumb to wear one.

Ask me bllix with your end statement, I know you're just trolling now!

stephenjmcd · 28-04-2020 01:03PM

Gael23 wrote: »

My thoughts exactly

It's not rocket science, I'll put up with restrictions so long as theres is a clear plan with dates and targets with more transparency. We've none of that.
All we have is a last minute decision each time that says your doing great but not well enough so 2 more weeks. Whereas recently we had the CMO coming out and saying on the late late that it was suppressed in the community, the modeling was good and he was optimistic.

So what is it, complete opposites week to week.

is_that_so · 28-04-2020 01:04PM

boring accountant wrote: »

This really takes the biscuit.

If the powers that be are creating policy based on the belief that you need to be a fully qualified medical professional to use a mask properly then I have no faith in their judgement.

It's not a belief, they say, with monotonous regularity, that the evidence is weak on the benefits of general wearing of masks.

Spencer Brown · 28-04-2020 01:05PM

omeara1113 wrote: »

Read this on another forum I cant believe how true it is but dont worry rush the construction workers back to work "sarcasm "
There is a huge amount of shared vehicles between site workers. There is a lot of passing and sharing of tools, wheelbarrows, shovels, tape measures etc. There are a lot of shared surfaces, ladders, scaffolding rails, canteen and toilet doors. The welfare units are tiny, crammed in like sardines. Many eat in their cars, but many have no transport. Wasing the hands and using the jacks are done in tiny spaces. Believe me, site toilets are some of the most filthy places imaginable. There's the rush to the local deli counter at break or on the way in. Many jobs on sites need to be done in close proximity to others. People go to work sick on sites because there is often no sick pay plus the workers are regularly told they are disposable, if they dont show up there are others who will take their place. Sites were rife with people who were sick but keeping schtum before lockdown. Will companies invest in more tools to avoid sharing? They will in their holes. The 15 minute CIF Covid induction online, a big skite of posters plastered everywhere like miraculous medals, an update to the RAMS docs done by bosses safely at hone and off yiz go to the frontline. Let's see how many of ye are standing in 3 months

This doesn't apply to all sites, if a site is found to not be complying then it should be shut down. There aren't that many sites that they can't be inspected regularly.

hmmm · 28-04-2020 01:06PM

Lyle wrote: »

Just on the masks debate, this is a simple visualisation from the New England Journal of Medicine on the difference it makes, just in terms of droplet expulsion from quiet/regular/loud talking.

No-one is arguing masks don't help to block droplets. What the issues are is:
1. Supplies of scarce PPE being diverted from those who need it
2. Badly used masks are more dangerous than no mask (people touching their faces)
3. False confidence with mask wearers that they are invulnerable
4. Panic amongst people looking to get masks

Masks are a distraction and make a minor impact. If we could get people to wash their hands properly, and social distance properly, it's significantly more important than masks.

growleaves · 28-04-2020 01:07PM

Will companies invest in more tools to avoid sharing? They will in their holes.

That can be enforced.

And if you think that's impractical please show how it is less practical than an indefinite shutdown of the entire economy.

stephenjmcd · 28-04-2020 01:08PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Italy released their plan yesterday after 6 weeks of a harsher lockdown.

People need to chill and see the plan on Friday.

Italy were actually giving people hope with a proper plan.

We quite frankly dont have that, it's being drip fed that our plan wont set dates only saying "when the time is right". When the time is right wont fly.

Now if it has dates and targets great, but I'm not holding my breath. People need some reassurance.

All well and good saying be postive but it's the same thing we were told right before another 3 weeks of restrictions.

omeara1113 · 28-04-2020 01:08PM

Spencer Brown wrote: »

This doesn't apply to all sites, if a site is found to not be complying then it should be shut down. There aren't that many sites that they can't be inspected regularly.

Obviously you dont work on sites

Jinglejangle69 · 28-04-2020 01:12PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Italy were actually giving people hope with a proper plan.

We quite frankly dont have that, it's being drip fed that our plan wont set dates only saying "when the time is right". When the time is right wont fly.

Now if it has dates and targets great, but I'm not holding my breath. People need some reassurance.

All well and good saying be postive but it's the same thing we were told right before another 3 weeks of restrictions.

Wait and see.

What's the point in ranting and getting stressed about something we will know all about in a few days?

growleaves · 28-04-2020 01:14PM

omeara1113 wrote: »

Obviously you dont work on sites

Lol

Do you think paying for and enforcing a new health inspection regime for the construction industry is impractical but not having a construction industry is practical?

stephenjmcd · 28-04-2020 01:15PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Wait and see.

What's the point in ranting and getting stressed about something we will know all about in a few days?

Because every week we get given mixed messages from the dept of health, hse, cmo etc.

At the start Simon Harris said these restrictions shouldn't be longer than 4 weeks as it wont be possible to keep discipline. If they add another 2 weeks on now, that's 8 weeks of restrictions.

I hope they have a clear plan on Friday but so far they've just kept kicking the can down the road. Like I've said people need to be given something to aim towards.

seanl77 · 28-04-2020 01:15PM

It's a sure sign that things are royally screwed when the whole country starts dreading Bank Holidays ðŸ˜

Tenzor07 · 28-04-2020 01:15PM

hmmm wrote: »

Masks are a distraction and make a minor impact. If we could get people to wash their hands properly, and social distance properly, it's significantly more important than masks.

They are no more a distraction or a minor impact than the differences between 2m social distance and 1.5m!

Masks are recommended to reduce community transmission including physical distancing, staying home when ill, teleworking if possible, respiratory etiquette, meticulous hand hygiene and avoiding touching the face, nose, eyes and mouth.

prunudo · 28-04-2020 01:18PM

Discodog wrote: »

Read the Act not the government spin.

Really, must dig that out because myself and everyone else I know in the industry haven't been landscaping for the last 4 weeks?

omeara1113 · 28-04-2020 01:19PM

growleaves wrote: »

Lol

Do you think paying for a new health inspection regime for the construction industry is impractical but not having a construction industry is practical?

I di think a lot if sites have great intentions but it doesn't always run to plan toilets canteens are not normally kept the builder sees cleaning and keeping it clean a waste of a labour's time working in houses is also a problem when you have tilers sparks plumbers painters on top of each other every doing there work but circumstances mean there all on top of each other

drunkmonkey · 28-04-2020 01:20PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's no reason not to wear a mask in public!
If Germany probably the most advanced economy in Europe is dishing out €1000 fines for not wearing one in public then I will take their word over some Pd.D who thinks Irish people are too dumb to wear one.

Ask me bllix with your end statement, I know you're just trolling now!

You don't get it, you don't see the risk, that's fine your an expert in transmission what would Cillian the Virologist know, an edjit that fella.
Without looking it up could you please tell us the do's and don't of putting on, taking off, disposing, adjusting, and after use procedures for mask wearing and also your opinion if every Joe soap now wearing a mask knows the same.

CalamariFritti · 28-04-2020 01:21PM

Can we please stop repeating that stop touching your face nonsense? It has long been taken off the list and for a good reason.

It is not an action you can control consciously. Or maybe if you superman/woman can, congrats to you, 99% of the mere mortals can not.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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