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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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Comments

  • #2822
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    JazzyJ wrote: »
    I guess, for some reason, people are expecting the virus to be completely gone with the lockdown and the fact that there still new cases appearing every day seem to think that it's failed.

    Really they're looking for a quick fix, and there is none. Reality just hasn't hit home. This is going to be a really really long drawn out process unfortunately.

    Precisely, the lockdown didn't work, and won't work indefinitely.


  • #2823
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    ixoy wrote: »
    Are you of the opinion we can't lift any restrictions on the 5th? The evidence of transmission rate would suggest otherwise. No huge lift obviously, but some small elements rolled back. Most other EU nations are doing this and no, they're not all better than we are.

    It's still possible but as of now they would not be changed.

    Yesterday there were over 700 new cases reported, that's the reality of where we are. No amount of pretending otherwise puts us in a better place.

    The real people to direct annoyance at are those breaking the advice with dumb garden parties and the like.

    They'll be the ones responsible for extension, not the govt.


  • #2824
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    easypazz wrote: »
    They are also reducing the number of people in built up areas, potentially reducing the spread of risk there and making social distancing more attainable.
    If 200 people leave a town of 20,000 and arrive at a town of 150, the negative impact on the latter is far greater than the positive impact on the former.


  • #2825
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    easypazz wrote: »
    Precisely, the lockdown didn't work, and won't work indefinitely.

    Yes it did. Stop lying.


  • #2826
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,138 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    the kelt wrote: »
    Because we were told that the actions we took and the timings of the actions that we took etc were implemented to ensure we did not end up in a situation as bad as Spain.

    If thats not the case then lets hear it rather than the mixed messages and skewed rhetoric we have received to date.

    If this isnt working then lets hear it. Lets go back to publishing the minutes of meetings between the NPHET and the Government as was the case up until the 31st of March but has suddenly stopped for some reason.

    Ive no doubt if those minutes exist it will provide some clarity as to the issues involved in ramping up testing and the decision to shift patients from hospitals to nursing homes and the subsequent spikes that have happened in said nursing homes, maybe theres no correlation at all, maybe there is.

    Maybe just maybe we arent actually handling this outbreak as well as is being claimed hence the non release of meeting minutes.

    Or maybe we should just continue on regardless and not ask these questions?

    Unfortunately this is what happens when you don't have a functioning government or opposition. There is nobody to hold these decision makers to account and not publishing their meeting minutes points to a worrying trend IMO.

    Nobody in the media is asking the right questions, merely towing the line.
    Dr McConkey was on Claire Byrne and mentioned that in reviewing his notes from the start of this crisis, incredibly Nursing Homes were not mentioned in them. He immediately passed the buck saying the decisions weren't his, and in fairness he's correct, but I find it incredulous that none in the NPHET or other advisors didn't think Nursing Homes were a huge area of concern.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • #2827
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,679 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    easypazz wrote: »
    Precisely, the lockdown didn't work, and won't work indefinitely.

    You simply can't say that it didn't work. The ONLY way to be able to demonstrate that it didn't work is physically impossible as it involves a time machine.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival



  • #2828
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,014 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    seamus wrote: »
    If 200 people leave a town of 20,000 and arrive at a town of 150, the negative impact on the latter is far greater than the positive impact on the former.

    Is it any wonder hes dissapointed his "ideas" arent being followed?


  • #2829
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It's still possible but as of now they would not be changed.

    Yesterday there were over 700 new cases reported, that's the reality of where we are. No amount of pretending otherwise puts us in a better place.

    The real people to direct annoyance at are those breaking the advice with dumb garden parties and the like.

    They'll be the ones responsible for extension, not the govt.

    They're part of the problem but the gov and dept of health keep saying community transmission is suppressed its essential 0 etc and that nursing home and care settings are where the vast majority of new cases are coming from so I'm sorry but the lack of ability to protect that sector is their responsibility. You can't say it's not, HSE can't do the required tests, again their problem and the governments. So if they're going to use that as the reason to extend agian then yes they are also responsible


  • #2830
    JazzyJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 685 ✭✭✭JazzyJ


    easypazz wrote: »
    Precisely, the lockdown didn't work, and won't work indefinitely.

    It has worked. The hospitals were not overrun. And in order to prevent them being overrun restrictions will have to continue.

    At this point its about opening up things as much as possible without impacting the health service negatively. The hard part is figuring out where the balance point is without going on the wrong side of it.


  • #2831
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    JazzyJ wrote: »
    It has worked. The hospitals were not overrun. And in order to prevent them being overrun restrictions will have to continue.

    At this point its about opening up things as much as possible without impacting the health service negatively. The hard part is figuring out where the balance point is without going on the wrong side of it.

    How has it worked so?


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  • #2832
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Penfailed wrote: »
    You simply can't say that it didn't work. The ONLY way to be able to demonstrate that it didn't work is physically impossible as it involves a time machine.

    Similarly you can't say it did work without access to a parallel universe, a time machine etc.

    So its unproven either way, which is what I've been saying.

    Of course we could compare to countries that weren't locked down - did their r0 shoot through the roof with 100,000s of deaths? That's the kind of comparisons that will be made when the dust has settled.

    For such a destructive policy we should be demanding extraordinary proof.

    But whats happened is that people have such an intense emotional investment in the lockdown that they explode with anger when it is questioned.


  • #2833
    Long_Wave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭Long_Wave


    DeVore wrote: »
    Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

    Sure a good chunk of the population think that the goal of the lockdown is to cure the covid 19 completely and that the government can continue to pay 350€ p/w dole indefinitely.


  • #2834
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,679 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    easypazz wrote: »
    Full lockdown forever if necessary camp so.

    That's not what he said, or anywhere near it for that matter.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival



  • #2835
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,327 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    It has worked. The hospitals were not overrun. And in order to prevent them being overrun restrictions will have to continue.

    At this point its about opening up things as much as possible without impacting the health service negatively. The hard part is figuring out where the balance point is without going on the wrong side of it.

    It also seems to me that the opening up of restrictions is completely dependent on getting the testing/contact tracing system up to speed, and this seems to be constantly out of reach.



    Has anyone said why they can't seem to get the testing/contact tracing systems up and running to the required capacity? Is it money, personnel, industrial relations, equipment -what?




    This is the main aspect of things lately that's making me really nervous - nobody is talking about this (that I've heard, anyway), and it's really, really important.....


  • #2836
    Hogzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    hopalongcass wrote: »
    Heres somebody from the frontline why don't you take a few minutes out of your day and watch that before you call people idiots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU&t=418s


    We can all pluck random videos from people on the internet to back up our points. Are either of those doctors opinions published in any medical journals anywhere? My guess is no.


  • #2837
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    seamus wrote: »
    You're answering it there yourself. If people go down to holiday homes, they're interacting with local businesses, potentially spreading the virus.

    There are logistical issues too, where areas heavily reliant on tourism now don't have the capacity to deal with an influx of tourists; restaurants are closed, supermarkets are under pressure from residents already. As a result, the local infrastructure comes under intense pressure.

    How are they spreading the virus if they've been in lockdown and don't have it. If local businesses are taking proper precautions there is no issue.
    There is no mad influx of tourists only home owners, there won't be the usual tour buses arriving every hour, there won't be day trippers as there's no services unless they intend to go to the toilet on the beach.

    Local shops aren't under pressure, quite the opposite there operating in a ghost town. All pubs and restaurants are closed.

    A few home owners going to their homes and enjoying time outdoors with their families should not be an issue.


  • #2838
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    easypazz wrote: »
    How has it worked so?


    What do you reckon would be the current status if the restrictions " worked " in your eyes?


  • #2839
    RooTruth2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭RooTruth2020


    Hogzy wrote: »
    We can all pluck random videos from people on the internet to back up our points. Are either of those doctors opinions published in any medical journals anywhere? My guess is no.

    What a stupid point - do you really think most doctors on the front line saving lives have time to be writing journal articles.

    God you're deluded.


  • #2840
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The hospitals were not overrun. And in order to prevent them being overrun restrictions will have to continue.

    Sweden tripled their ICU capacity during this pandemic. Are we making any efforts to expand our ICU capacity to prevent hospitals being overrun?

    Again I have to ask, why is it that the most destructive policy is considered the only viable one?


  • #2841
    hopalongcass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭hopalongcass


    Hogzy wrote: »
    We can all pluck random videos from people on the internet to back up our points. Are either of those doctors opinions published in any medical journals anywhere? My guess is no.

    There is none as blind as those who cannot see,i challenge anybody to watch that whole video and listen to a real doctor that actually cares about people.


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  • #2842
    eggy81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭eggy81


    titan18 wrote: »
    How about those who wants restrictions to end sign waivers that they'll forgo hospital treatments so that they can carry on with their lives and go to the pub. Those of who are more concerned with the health of people rather than the economy can get treatment then if we get it.

    Hmm. Yes ye would love that. People go out and work and spend and get the economy off the ground and everyone else reaps the benefit of it.. ideal


  • #2843
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,327 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    growleaves wrote: »
    Sweden tripled their ICU capacity during this pandemic. Are we making any efforts to expand our ICU capacity to prevent hospitals being overrun?

    Again I have to ask, why is it that the most destructive policy is considered the only viable one?


    There were huge expansions to ICU capacity - The Mater for one I think doubled their ICU beds. Can't give you exact numbers but for sure our ICU capacity is way above what it was before Covid.


    ICU beds also needs staff though, and they can't be magicked up overnight - and that's where the main problems will arise I think if they get overwhelmed.


  • #2844
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    It also seems to me that the opening up of restrictions is completely dependent on getting the testing/contact tracing system up to speed, and this seems to be constantly out of reach.



    Has anyone said why they can't seem to get the testing/contact tracing systems up and running to the required capacity? Is it money, personnel, industrial relations, equipment -what?



    This is the main aspect of things lately that's making me really nervous - nobody is talking about this (that I've heard, anyway), and it's really, really important.....
    They now seem to have all the bits in place but what is a challenge is a real time response i.e. 24 hours as the system moves towards the potential to test 100000 a week. That process has just been agreed but it will take time to get there. The looser case definition testing from this week will be a good test.


  • #2845
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    It also seems to me that the opening up of restrictions is completely dependent on getting the testing/contact tracing system up to speed, and this seems to be constantly out of reach.



    Has anyone said why they can't seem to get the testing/contact tracing systems up and running to the required capacity? Is it money, personnel, industrial relations, equipment -what?




    This is the main aspect of things lately that's making me really nervous - nobody is talking about this (that I've heard, anyway), and it's really, really important.....

    No, nobody is talking about it.

    No one asking the questions, information is being denied. Meetings between NPHET and the government were minuted and released up until 31st of March and has stopped for some reason.

    Maybe just maybe rather than Johnny breaking the 2km curfew to visit his father isnt the problem as its been put and its at a much much higher level where the ball is being dropped.

    Who knows?


  • #2846
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    omeara1113 wrote: »
    I honestly think two more weeks will do no harm the health of people is more important than going for a few pints this is not the time to let up

    What will be different in 2 weeks?


  • #2847
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    robbiezero wrote: »
    What will be different in 2 weeks?

    It's gonna be May


  • #2848
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    the kelt wrote: »
    No, nobody is talking about it.

    No one asking the questions, information is being denied. Meetings between NPHET and the government were minuted and released up until 31st of March and has stopped for some reason.

    Maybe just maybe rather than Johnny breaking the 2km curfew to visit his father isnt the problem as its been put and its at a much much higher level where the ball is being dropped.

    Who knows?
    Just NEPHT. They are coming and will be available. Latest ones here are 31 March, as stated above.

    EDIT: Original link was incorrect.
    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/691330-national-public-health-emergency-team-covid-19-coronavirus/


  • #2849
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    seamus wrote: »
    If 200 people leave a town of 20,000 and arrive at a town of 150, the negative impact on the latter is far greater than the positive impact on the former.

    What town of just 150 has 200 holiday homes?


  • #2850
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    robbiezero wrote: »
    What will be different in 2 weeks?

    My point exactly.

    There will still be cases and the economy will be destroyed even more.

    We need to ease restrictions and learn to live with the consequences.


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  • #2851
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    easypazz wrote: »
    My point exactly.

    There will still be cases and the economy will be destroyed even more.

    We need to ease restrictions and learn to live with the consequences.


    Or how about this? - We need to ease consequences and learn to live with restrictions


This discussion has been closed.
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