Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tacitus Kilgore

facehugger99 wrote: »

Some of the latest analysis is projecting a potential €30bn deficit this year.

https://www.businesspost.ie/economics/budget-deficit-could-hit-30bn-this-year-8b125be0

This is a truly frightening figure.

We are already €200bn in debt from the last recession.

The electorate don't want to hear about prudent management and tough decisions and there is a host of political parties that will pander to them.
Borrow, borrow borrow and spend spend spend will be the cry of the masses.
We have a weak Government about to take the reigns of power and the leader of the largest opposition party is mouthing platitudes about taking on a €12bn a year unification project, as directed by her shadowy overlords in the 'army council'.

We are borrowing against our children's and grandchildren's futures. What kind of a world are we bequeathing them? A poisoned environment and a wrecked economy crippled with debt.
And this is the generation we hope will pay our pensions when the time comes.

We will be viewed as cowardly, greedy and self-centered by future generations and it is all we deserve.

It's all made up money anyway, wouldn't be too worried about it

Hearty80

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The way we're been treated?

Jesus id hate to see you try survive through a bit of hardship like many in the world.

Pathetic.

What's pathetic about wanting information from the government??? The same that has happened in EVERY other European country?? Don't be so ignorant

LiquidZeb

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It's all made up money anyway, wouldn't be too worried about it

Yeah tell the Greeks how made up their national debt from all the bailouts is. Jesus are you that clueless?

ZX7R

easypazz wrote: »

Its disgusting.

And the media are milking it for all its worth to sell copy.

You need to read our fellow EU county's exit plans more carefully easypazz,
Yes they are giving time frames and dates but everyone of them also clearly state that date's are and will be reviewed in direct reaction to new cases of virus's been reported.

Jinglejangle69

Breezin wrote: »

Ooh, you're hard. Bring it on, what?

Bring what on?

joseywhales

The idea that loses of life through suicide equate to deaths from covid is some misnomer. The fact that one group consents to death is fairly key, no matter how terrible the situation.

I was watching this line of questioning for Andrew Cuomo last week, like they were trying to lead him into belittling mental health issues. But at the end of the day a suicide is not the same as a non consensual death and the spreading of a disease to innocent third parties.

easypazz

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The way we're been treated?

Jesus id hate to see you try survive through a bit of hardship like many in the world.

Pathetic.

Yes, a clear plan, or strategy would settle people.

If we reach milestone X, certain businesses open.

If we reach milestone Y, more things open.

Numbers go bad we implement restriction A and B.

The message being given at the moment is that they haven't a fcuking clue.

Every other country is talking positive.

Here we Leo warning people he will extend the lockdown for a few weeks if people are bold.

Jinglejangle69

Hearty80 wrote: »

What's pathetic about wanting information from the government??? The same that has happened in EVERY other European country?? Don't be so ignorant

We are getting information.

We will know soon of the restrictions will be eased etc.

timmy_mallet

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It's all made up money anyway, wouldn't be too worried about it

Think they said that in the Weimar Republic too.

Jinglejangle69

easypazz wrote: »

Yes, a clear plan, or strategy would settle people.

If we reach milestone X, certain businesses open.

If we reach milestone Y, more things open.

Numbers go bad we implement restriction A and B.

The message being given at the moment is that they haven't a fcuking clue.

Every other country is talking positive.

Here we Leo warning people he will extend the lockdown for a few weeks if people are bold.

There was a meeting yesterday and the recommendations were sent to government.

We will know soon what the plan is.

If the government tell people things will open like you suggest and then have to roll back if cases increase people will loose their ****.

retro:electro

Leo would want to have a very good reason come Friday, or whenever he makes his speech, to extend this lockdown until another arbitrary date. Most of us have done all we can, we have abided by the rules and have played ball. But if this is stretched out for another two weeks “just because” then I can see a lot of people just not accepting it. Our numbers are steady, our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed, there is nothing to suggest this crisis isn’t being managed in an appropriate way so why not let society try and adapt to this new normal in a measured way instead of locking us all up until the big bad wolf has disappeared, which is never going to happen. At least not in the near future anyway.

Stretching this out another two weeks will just see us at the exact same point and asking the exact same questions in two weeks time. We need to try and live with this virus now and the only way we can do that is by adopting the new behaviours we have learned and try and return to some level of what is normal. I can see Leo coming on saying we are doing great but not great enough, a few more weeks and we’ll be there. We will never be “there”. As long as this virus exists we will have to live in a way where we use our own judgement and be sensible. A slow opening of some services with appropriate social distancing in place makes sense. Let people travel outside of 2k ffs. And let us visit our family members, even to sit in the garden and have a chat once a week. Loneliness and isolation is a fate worse than death for some people.

Jinglejangle69

retro:electro wrote: »

Leo would want to have a very good reason come Friday, or whenever he makes his speech, to extend this lockdown until another arbitrary date. Most of us have done all we can, we have abided by the rules and have played ball. But if this is stretched out for another two weeks “just because” then I can see a lot of people just not accepting it. Our numbers are steady, our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed, there is nothing to suggest this crisis isn’t being managed in an appropriate way so why not let society try and adapt to this new normal in a measured way instead of locking us all up until the big bad wolf has disappeared, which is never going to happen. At least not in the near future anyway.

Stretching this out another two weeks will just see us at the exact same point and asking the exact same questions in two weeks time. We need to try and live with this virus now and the only way we can do that is by adopting the new behaviours we have learned and try and return to some level of what is normal. I can see Leo coming on saying we are doing great but not great enough, a few more weeks and we’ll be there. We will never be “there”. As long as this virus exists we will have to live in a way where we use our own judgement and be sensible. A slow opening of some services with appropriate social distancing in place makes sense. Let people travel outside of 2k ffs. And let us visit our family members, even to sit in the garden and have a chat once a week. Loneliness and isolation is a fate worse than death for some people.

You think Leo is doing this just because?

You think they want us all too be suffering?

Kids were allowed outside for the first time in
6 weeks in Spain yesterday.

We have had these restrictions for 4 weeks.

What we have to do is nothing compared to other countries.

drunkmonkey

easypazz wrote: »

Yes, a clear plan, or strategy would settle people.

If we reach milestone X, certain businesses open.

If we reach milestone Y, more things open.

Numbers go bad we implement restriction A and B.

The message being given at the moment is that they haven't a fcuking clue.

Every other country is talking positive.

Here we Leo warning people he will extend the lockdown for a few weeks if people are bold.

Do you trust a government that failed to plan for a pandemic to come up with a sensible plan to get us out of a pandemic. I certainly don't.

Breezin

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Bring what on?

That would be an idiom in common usage.

It's often invoked by tough people, like you, that we 'pathetic' people, who question the wisdom of aspects of the lockdown, need to rescue us from ourselves.

Deeper Blue

If the numbers haven't gone down in the last two weeks what's to say they'll go down with another two weeks of lockdown?

Time to start adapting to the new normal by slowly opening up.

retro:electro

retro:electro wrote: »

Leo would want to have a very good reason come Friday, or whenever he makes his speech, to extend this lockdown until another arbitrary date.........................

Stretching this out another two weeks will just see us at the exact same point and asking the exact same questions in two weeks time..............

It's quite logical that the longer the lockdown goes on for the smaller the R value becomes. The lower the R value the more chance of longterm control.

I'm all for some easing of restrictions though, all of them won't be eased though.

What do you mean by " extend this lockdown until another arbitrary date"? If some folk can get back to work is that the lockdown gone?

LiquidZeb

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You think Leo is doing this just because?

You think they want us all too be suffering?

I think it's more out of cowardice than malice. They're so scared of doing something wrong they'd rather do nothing. That can be worse than having a moron like Trump prescribing shots of Dettol.

Thelonious Monk

joseywhales wrote: »

The idea that loses of life through suicide equate to deaths from covid is some misnomer. The fact that one group consents to death is fairly key, no matter how terrible the situation.

I was watching this line of questioning for Andrew Cuomo last week, like they were trying to lead him into belittling mental health issues. But at the end of the day a suicide is not the same as a non consensual death and the spreading of a disease to innocent third parties.

People are going on about mental health and domestic abuse because they are worried about this crisis hitting their pocket and their personal freedoms being curtailed, as if they give a sh*t really.

Tacitus Kilgore

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yeah tell the Greeks how made up their national debt from all the bailouts is. Jesus are you that clueless?

My name isn't Jesus? Their Debts are in makey-uppey money too tbh.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Think they said that in the Weimar Republic too.

Not quite no - I think they said something along the lines of this (I don't know any german though so may not be correct) -

Es ist sowieso alles Geld verdient, wäre nicht zu besorgt darüber

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do you trust a government that failed to plan for a pandemic to come up with a sensible plan to get us out of a pandemic. I certainly don't.

What governments would you trust to do so?

thebaz

retro:electro wrote: »

Leo would want to have a very good reason come Friday, or whenever he makes his speech, to extend this lockdown until another arbitrary date. Most of us have done all we can, we have abided by the rules and have played ball. But if this is stretched out for another two weeks “just because” then I can see a lot of people just not accepting it. Our numbers are steady, our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed, there is nothing to suggest this crisis isn’t being managed in an appropriate way so why not let society try and adapt to this new normal in a measured way instead of locking us all up until the big bad wolf has disappeared, which is never going to happen. At least not in the near future anyway.

Stretching this out another two weeks will just see us at the exact same point and asking the exact same questions in two weeks time. We need to try and live with this virus now and the only way we can do that is by adopting the new behaviours we have learned and try and return to some level of what is normal. I can see Leo coming on saying we are doing great but not great enough, a few more weeks and we’ll be there. We will never be “there”. As long as this virus exists we will have to live in a way where we use our own judgement and be sensible. A slow opening of some services with appropriate social distancing in place makes sense. Let people travel outside of 2k ffs. And let us visit our family members, even to sit in the garden and have a chat once a week. Loneliness and isolation is a fate worse than death for some people.

agree, and the problem right now in Ireland is is the nursing homes, this problem was not created by the 99% rest of society , who have done a good job in helping flatten the curve and not over-running our medical services, and imposing further lockdown on them will have little impact on solving the nursing home problem , society needs to return to some form of normality, with social distancing, so as to create (or at least lessen) the economic disaster facing our new generation, lets give them a little hope (and I'm old but have children along with elderly paerents)

LiquidZeb

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People are going on about mental health and domestic abuse because they are worried about this crisis hitting their pocket and their personal freedoms being curtailed, as if they give a sh*t really.

So the 120,000 people who are facing job losses in the restaurant sector are just worried about losing a few Bob? Must be great being so superior not having to worry about money Monk. Hope it lasts for you.

LiquidZeb

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

My name isn't Jesus? Their Debts are in makey-uppey money too tbh.



Not quite no - I think they said something along the lines of this (I don't know any german though so may not be correct) -

Es ist sowieso alles Geld verdient, wäre nicht zu besorgt darüber



What governments would you trust to do so?

Today I learned the Greeks are living under a brutal bout of austerity and unemployment for the fun of it because of makey uppey money. Best get onto their government tacitus to let them know it's a load of old cod.

Thelonious Monk

LiquidZeb wrote: »

So the 120,000 people who are facing job losses in the restaurant sector are just worried about losing a few Bob? Must be great being so superior not having to worry about money Monk. Hope it lasts for you.

That's completely unrelated to what I said

LiquidZeb

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That's completely unrelated to what I said

You said the only reason people want to get out of lockdown is because they're worried about losing a few quid and they're disguising those fears as concerns over domestic abuse and mental health.

You do realize people will lose their homes over this? All might be well in your little chateau but that's sadly not the case for everyone.

Cypher_sounds

Anyone know if dentist practices are open?

khalessi

Just related to the relaxation of restrictions and children Most children if they get Covid19 cope well and recover but there is a rise over the last few weeks in UK of children presenting with a multi-system inflammatory state requiring intensive care across London and also in other regions of the UK.'

They are saying it is Covid19 related and looks similar to toxic shock syndrome and Kawasaki disease which, combined, cause harmful internal swelling, fever and breathing problems - all hallmark signs of COVID-19


https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/exclusive-national-alert-as-coronavirus-related-condition-may-be-emerging-in-children/7027496.article


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8260399/NHS-issues-doctors-urgent-alert-coronavirus-related-condition-children.html


If so this virus is mental in how it is affecting people

Restaurant sector is in trouble. They want VAT to 0% along with rates being reduced to zero for as long as the need to implement social distancing in their premises. ......... https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0427/1134970-covid19-coronavirus-restaurants/

- a call for a 0% rate of VAT for the duration of the crisis and the year after it, followed by a 9% rate for the next five years.

- banks to waive fees until a vaccine is found, as well as a moratorium on existing loan repayments and the application of ECB rates on loans.

- On insurance, it wants pay-outs assured for restaurants that have business interruption cover, along with forbearance and a guarantee that cover will not be suspended while firms are closed.

- In relation to rents, the RAI plan calls for new laws to protect commercial lease holders and an assurance that mortgage holidays would be passed through to lease holders by landlords.

This could also involve the Government supplementing rent payments for a period.

Regarding wages, the sector is seeking continued supports until a vaccine is found.

It is also seeking grants from Government to help firms with liquidity over the six months after they resume opening.

The RAI also wants a ban on utility companies cutting off services and seeking payments when restaurants are closed.

On the issue of rates, the plan envisages a write-off for restaurants and hospitality firms until a vaccine is found.

In order to encourage social distancing, the industry wants licenses for outdoor tables and chairs waived for a year.

facehugger99

joseywhales wrote: »

The idea that loses of life through suicide equate to deaths from covid is some misnomer. The fact that one group consents to death is fairly key, no matter how terrible the situation.

I was watching this line of questioning for Andrew Cuomo last week, like they were trying to lead him into belittling mental health issues. But at the end of the day a suicide is not the same as a non consensual death and the spreading of a disease to innocent third parties.

Suicides should be the least of anyone's worries.

Health services cost money to run and we will have to borrow 10's of billions of euros this year alone to keep the lights on.
That's not sustainable and there will be sweeping cuts across the board, including the €20bn we currently spend on health.

This will result in deaths through lack of screenings, canceled operations, reduced services and a myriad of other reasons.

It's almost incomprehensible that such simple logic seems beyond the comprehension of a substantial cohort of the population.

road_high

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It's all made up money anyway, wouldn't be too worried about it

The Interest payment that we will have to come up with to service this won’t be made up money- I can assure you of that.

LiquidZeb

road_high wrote: »

The Interest payment that we will have to come up with to service this won’t be made up money- I can assure you of that.

Just let him live in his fantasy world. He probably thinks Monopoly money is legal tender.